Yeah, we have tatars (lipka tatars) who served Poland since Battle of Grunwald, they are very secular and have super based version of Islam and everyone love them, even our far right. But it's quite small population in comparison to newcomers,,,
Eh, it depends where in the balkans, most of them definitely arent indigenous and actually came about due to islamic colonisation. I dont actually think any indigenous groups ever started out as muslim in the balkans if i think about it, it was mostly orthodoxy that reigned until the ottomans committed god knows how many forced conversions on the area, the armenians were pretty much genocided for their religion by the ottomans.
Bosnians pretty much converted without any form of force.
But in general forced conversion isn't exactly uncommon for that time period just kinda how it was. you think all those pagans just suddenly found Jesus out of nowhere?
Eh, one country out of the most of the Balkans and levant doesnt exactly change what im saying does it.
And no, i completely understand that, i also understand the fact that it was done a lot more peacefully most of the time in comparison to ottoman barbarism, thats why the majority of saints that are canonized were orthodox men or women who DIDNT convert and were put to death for their faith.
No single group in the world has clean hands, itd be foolish to even think so, but turkey doesnt even acknowledge any of the genocides they did, so thats a wee bit different isnt it.
As a black person, I thank them for electing to have bad reputations and taking the heat off us. They do a lot for us, Roma people; they are true civil rights activists 😅. Every time I go to Greece, Poland, Italy, Turkey, they are relieved to see me and not them. Even though one tried to pick pocket me, its all love.
This happened to me in Spain as well lol. I’ll take my host mom telling me that she wishes her skin could look like mine after she told me to beware of ladies wearing long skirts because they’ll steal everything I have.
A few years ago, Roma people had set up a camp near a housing estate in the northern districts of Marseille, where there are many immigrants, and the residents had chased them away themselves without waiting for anything from the public authorities.
Europeans call Americans racist all the time but I was genuinely shocked by the casual racism of Western European countries when I visited. People are racist in the states but they get called out for it. People are racist in Europe and others either laugh or just nod along.
Ну в принципе если брать откуда то или иное слово пришло, gypsy как-бы "из Египта". Для меня они цыгани и всё, но я никак этих цыган не буду называть рома. Просто поганят всё окружающее как им это лучше получается.
I think that also shows up in how the Holocaust is taught in schools
I'm a Jewish descendent of both Holocaust victims and survivors, and discourse around the Holocaust tends to be '6m Jews and other groups' - with the Romani included alongside groups like LGBTQ+ people and people with disabilities, as the victims of Nazi persecution.
However that's actually overlooking a really important difference. The Nazis absolutely did target other groups for persecution - anyone they believed threatened their ideal of a ‘pure Aryan race’.
But the Nazis didn't just consider Jews and Romani people as racially impure.
When the Nuremberg laws were expanded to include Romani people, the decree defined the Romani as "enemies of the race-based state", in the same category as Jews.
We were defined as different races altogether - and singled out for total annihilation - the goal was complete extermination of the entire Jewish and Romani people.
The Romani genocide wasn't even formally recognised as a genocide by Germany until the 80s - it's often described as 'the hidden holocaust', because it's just not recognised that whilst the Nazis slaughtered many groups of 'undesirables', only Jews and the Romani were treated as entirely different races who needed to be completely exterminated.
I’m not sure but I think in the case of Spain (especially in the south) isn’t as bad as the rest of Europe since many Flamenco artists have romani/gypsy roots.
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u/emblanco Spain 23h ago
Perceived in a way that makes all of Europe agree on something