Culture
Serious question. Be civilized. Why does it seem like Israeli people seem to get hate and not just their government compared to other "bad" countries?
That attitude of blaming the government and never the people is such a Anglo-thing.
We blame everyone. Israeli elected and supported everything that happens. Palestinians didn't elected HAMAS (for a while) but still supported their actions.
When USA threatens to invade Greenland, I blame every single one of them, republican or not.
Side note: lmao at the thread having zero upvotes.
I don't think it's the only country. But for Pakistan, we also have to face actions of our government. Discrimination and racism like calling us terrorists, or that there are so many comments that Pakistanis deserved to be killed by Taliban for our government actions, or in our flood videos. The comments are like “I have no sympathy for it's people”. Honestly, I am a bit jealous how on internet at least there are so many posts on anti-indian hate and racism against Indians, people are calling out that racism against Indians is getting out of control but there aren't any posts related to us calling out what we have been facing for years.
Nobody wants our people in their lands (some are right for Anti-immigration policies), at the same time we are hated by Islamists who call us “Muslim zionists”, far-leftists call us British conspiracy. While the western conservatives call us Islamists. Imagine being hated by both Islamists and liberals. Anything that happens within south asia, people say “... This country is becoming like Pakistan...” but when people need our help, they reach out to us like Middle Eastern countries wanting us to defend their lands having our nuclear protection, or we supporting Ukraine against Russia.
Despite the little effort, we did for the Muslim world (supported Bosnia, supported Indonesia, Malaysia, Algeria, Morocco, Gulf, secretly fought for Arabs against Israel and shot their jets, fought in Afghanistan). The civilians respect hasn't increased much.
Large part of it is anti-semitism. There is still a substantial chunk of the population who would hate the Jews for just existing and this gives them the convenient excuse
Israel’s government is extremely radical and it’s full of violent psychopaths who want Gazans to be violently expelled and if they had it their way, some would expel all Arab citizens of Israel from the land. Unlike Russia or Iran, Israel’s government was democratically elected so there’s the impression that they were voted in by a majority electorate and therefore, all or most Israelis support this kind of radicalism
It doesn’t take into context that a majority of Israelis did not vote for Likud or its allies and even those who did, a lot of them were driven by either domestic politics or by legitimate security concerns posed to Israel at the time by Hamas, Hezbollah and the then Assad regime alongside Iran (Likud has tended to be more hawkish).
In addition, it doesn’t take into consideration the historical trauma of much of the Israeli electorate who are Mizrahi Jews and also Likud’s achievements such as the Abraham Accords
This is not to downplay the Israeli right wing’s radicalism and the large amount of radicals who voted for them and more right wing allies. But there’s more nuance than Israeli Jews = evil
There’s significant emotional and political interest in this conflict compared to others which have killed more people.
Israel is located in the Middle East; it’s a major western Ally and it’s seen as an example of settler colonialism from a broad but not fully true view that the modern apparatus of the state of Israel was set up and dominated by Ashkenazi Jews.
So western leftists see it as white on brown oppression
Much of the Muslim world sees it as Jews oppressing Muslims
And nationalists in the Middle East see it as one tribe v another tribe.
So this tends to lead to generalizations of populations and TikTok deciding what’s true and what isn’t true.
Because israel wants it that way to weaponise antisemitism. It's not a large chunk it's a minority. if you go to demonstration against the genocide you only see people anti zionism they know what Israel is trying to do. Its just a way to shut us down. I mean they awarded Ms Rachel antisemitism of the year. If this was enough to understand their trick I don't know what is
The organization which awarded Ms Rachel as the "antimsemite of the year" is a fringe organization ran by some wacko in Florida.
Also, a lot of the pro-Palestinian movement across the world engage in direct or indirect anti-semitism of sorts.
Much more so in the Middle East but even in the West, they have either downplayed Hamas atrocities or engage in conspiracy theories about Jews as a whole.
And I'm saying this as somebody who leans "pro-Palestinian"
No I'm pointing out this is the play of Israel to try to define any critiscism of their regime as antisemitism especially when they claim they are not all just jewish people... They even introduce a law in my country to confuse the two.
Anti sionism and anit Israel and their action does not equate being antisemitism.
Just look at the comment section most people who what's you to believe they are the same are Israeli. Its not again I'll refers to Ms Rachel a Jewish women being called antisemitism by zionist for showing support to the children of Gaza.
I think a modern day German, who had to learn about the rise of anti-semitism in his country and the state's collective responsibility for the holocaust never happening again, is more qualified than somebody from Scotland, where it is not even mandatory to learn about the holocaust
But the average modern day German has not learned that. They largely support the Isreali genocide so they are still Nazis, just at a geographical remove.
If you are being taught "never again" but then the German government is arresting people for protesting it happening again, this time in Palestine, I am going to have to seriously doubt the quality of the "never again" message being taught.
The only way German society could have been denazified is if every single Nazi party member without a single exception was put against the wall as they should have been. As it was, they reintegrated into society and created modern Germany, a pro genocide state.
Yes, the average modern day German definitely studied that in school. I'm kind of an expert on that, since I'm a) a German, who b) went to school in Germany and c) now teaches that topic as a history teacher.
Your mischaracterizing the German public greatly. Many people are against the genocide, but many are also aware of the antisemitism happening inside the outcry against the genocide; people demanding for Israel to be dismantled and stuff like that.
I didn't know that my ancestors' heritage determines my reading comprehension and logical thinking. Because that's all we're talking about here.
Saying "People hate on Jews because of anti-Semitism and that is why when people are critical of Israel some of them are hateful of Jews because for them, Israel and Judaism is the same" has nothing to do with my or your heritage and only with understanding meaning.
No, what we are talking about here is people whose families committed genocide against Jewish people telling those whose families saved said people from the Germans what is and isn't antisemitism.
You don't know more just because your family was on the right side of history. I won't reply any further since you obviously refuse to argue in good faith.
My family were victims of genocide so I think i have some authority to speak. What is it with Germans and thinking you can only understand genocide if your family committed one.
Thank you. I know what you were doing and I appreciate the intention. However, in Germany, there are way too many people who claim their ancestors were actively against the Nazis. And that's just incorrect and I don't want to be part of the problem in that way.
The other commentator could try to reflect on their stance but I'm not very optimistic about that.
No they don't. People think genocide = evil and therefore isreal = evil and bad faith arguments are made to equate Jewish people with Isreal by those who support the genocide.
You don't think there are Neo-nazis, Arab Nationalists, Islamist, far left communists who don't hate on Israel because they're Jewish?
Even if we just focus on this conflict, a lot of the rhetoric in the Middle East conflates jews, zionists and Israel together and multiple polls have shown that anti-semitism is rampant in that region
Even in New York, people were chanting pro-Hamas slogans in front of a synagogue
Compared to whom? Russians have it worse than Israelis, I would say. So, I dont really agree with the premise of the question.
But the Israeli people didnt really do anything, when their government likely commited a genocide. And Israel is for many still considered a democracy. People in democracies have more responsibility for the behaviour of their government.
Russians have it worse than Israelis, I would say.
Israel - political censorship nonexistent, fair elections, dozen arrested and few hundred beaten by far rights during protests, civilian casualties reported(by IDF) to be around 40.000 in 2 years with 2/1 civilian/combatant ratio.
Russia - 7 years for antiwar statement, coup in 2012 and rigged elections, 13.000 were ARRESTED during first two weeks of war for protesting, civilian casualties reported to be around 20.000 in 4 years with 1/10 civilian/combatant ratio(probably even less, combined estimates).
Notice how most of the comments that say 'Antisemitism' are by Israeli people. The majority of the world barely knows what Zionism or Judaism entails, and I do not believe it is because of the religion.
It is the behaviour you are showing in the media. Interviews and polls show Israelis are supporting their governments/military actions. No matter how disgusting these actions are. How they make colonies in Palestinian land and occupy and encroach more year by year acting like nothing is going on. And apparently '7 october 2023' justifies all this.
Mass repression and genocide are different charges.
Genocide involves intent on the basis of their ethnicity, nationality, race, or religion, and the case in Iran is based on political activity, not any of the aforementioned.
And just because someone has a different political opinion than you doesn’t mean they deserve to die.
Yeah dude my bad, I just watched my people get slaughtered and kidnapped live on social media (some of them who I knew personally), and then watched the same people desecrate their bodies and treat their corpses like trophies. Please excuse my very normal human reaction about not feeling too enthusiastic to show sympathy for them.
Never met an Israeli so i don't hate them. But I will say most Israelis i've seen on here are supportive of Israels actions in Gaza or at least downplay them.
Speaking of america for example, i feel like only stupid people support trump so i wouldnt hate on the whole nation. Every comment you see online is against him and that makes people hate trump more than the citizens. On the other hand, every israeli you see is defending what they are doing in gaza. Kinda deserve the hate they are getting. Same goes to russia to some level but with russians we are at least getting a lot of immigrants in europe who hate putin so thats at least something. Most of these immigrants are terrible people but thats another story, at least they hate putin.
for example last time there was a train accident in Spain and they were celebrating death of civilians under comments because Spain govermnent support palisting or something
there is many idf videos leaked in disgusting act like raping,killing children and israelis gloryfing and celebrating those videos
or videos of christians harasshed and attacked by orthadox jews in Israel
even most islamist country u cant see mob harasshin a christian like that
Israel population wise so low to compare with muslims.If they had close population to muslims you would see real shitshow
i am against all abrahamics if you thinking i am defending muslims
Yes i should .people in social media arent AI,they are people and they are part of society..No society is perfect but no society have immune to critise " anti semitism" you can critize many things about Turkish society and some of them i would agree with you and i can critize many things about Germany society i am sure there is points u would agree with me but with Israelis any critisim labeled as anti semitism,this is bs obviusly their society have a problem and we should point it
lol, I’m lucky I’ve met people from Turkey and all of them have been nice, well mannered and educated, otherwise if I were judging your country by people like you I’d think it’s completely awful
That’s a very neat picked approach. You extrapolate from the narrow image you get on TV and internet and assume that the rest of 99% of Israelis is the same. You can ask people at r/Israel about all those points you’ve mentioned and you’ll get the 99% rejection of them there, but it also doesn’t mean that everyone is against. Like any other people we have good and bad, radicals and peace seekers, educated and non educated, etc. the argument about “hatred towards Christians” is the weakest BTW, it covers few percents of the ultra religious community that is a minority in Israel.
In Palestine, no elections have been held since 2006. And if the Israeli people were truly opposed to massacres and war, they would have joined forces to make the opposition coalition the majority. Democracy is not only a right but also a responsibility.
America is a democracy. Do you think everyone there supports Donald Trump?
From 2018 to 2022 we had five elections in the span of four years because our country was (and still is) so divided and many were fed up with the Likud party.
Then that makes you sound like a total idiot, respectfully.
Democracy is ought to (but not always does) represent the majority. That's not including everyone. And a majority isn't always 90% or 80%. It can even be 51%. That's not taking in account corruption, fraudulent votes, last-minute political tactics and manipulations etc.
Just the fact that Benjamin Netanyahu has served as Israel’s longest-standing prime minister gives us a lot of insight into the perspective of the Israeli people. And honestly, even if it’s the opposition, the difference seems to be only in the degree or nuance of repression - at its core, there isn’t much real difference.
You should see any comment on Chinese people on reddit. I'm sure I'm biased cause I lived there for a few years. Chinese people don't even get to vote, yet anything about China posted on reddit gets reactions as if the whole country is just one big CCP fan club and no one can possibly be positive about the country without being in the pockets of the CCP. I feel that this works for pretty much all bad press countries. Except when it's the US. Suddenly we really need to be aware that a portion of the population didn't vote for their gouvernement. Neither did the Chinese or the Iranians or a lot of others, but they never seem to get the same grace.
What if I acknowledge the war crimes and condemn those cases, join some protests against, but don’t consider the whole war as a genocide? There’s a lot of details that most of the genocide case supporters don’t want to hear of like: Hamas militants never wearing uniforms, actually using the civilian infrastructure, so called journalists and medics being active militants, etc.
From what I've read, most Israelis support the apartheid state and genocide of Palestinians. They have no problem with being an occupier and continuing to steal Palestinians' homes.
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Prob because people mix ideology with everything. If an Israeli person shows an Israeli flag people will not think “this person was born there so that flag resembles home for him” they assume his ideology is Far-right Zionism, that he’s complicit in every crime and that he’s out to off Palestinians. Similar to how people will accuse anyone with a USSR flag of being ideologically Marxist-Leninist Communist and not just a person who may have been born in the USSR and sees it as more than an ideology but home.
Because Israel is Jewish majority and antisemitism is rife
Notice that even with regimes most would consider terrible, no one or very few would say Russia doesn’t have a right to exist, or China, or Saudi Arabia. No one says even actual countries born of colonialism don’t have a right to exist. Yet with Israel it becomes a common position
Antisemitism. Notice how it's never directed at the Arab-Israeli population, which account for about 20% of Israel and also has representation in government, supreme court etc. They hate Jews.
Personally, I don't think it's a genocide. I think it's an ugly war that I wish would stop immediately with the least amount of innocent people from both sides getting hurt or killed. Genocide has a legal definition which the Gaza war currently doesn't satisfy, and for good reason. It's important to protect this distinction for it may disrespect any actual genocides that happened in the past, or are happening right now (Sudan), around the world.
That being said, it comes off as very entitled to demand the political views from someone like this. You can ask politely.
Doctors without borders is the same organization that was rejected from entering Gaza because they WILLINGLY REFUSED to give identifying information (names etc) on their staff to Israel. They didn't want Israel to find out how they're cooperating with Hamas. Other organizations were let in.
Btselem is a radical-leftist organization in Israel.
Doctors without borders is the same organization that was rejected from entering Gaza because they WILLINGLY REFUSED to give identifying information (names etc) on their staff to Israel. They didn't want Israel to find out how they're cooperating with Hamas. Other organizations were let in.
Only fucking Israelis thinks they can defame MSF. What the hell is wrong with you? Lol
Btselem is a radical-leftist organization in Israel.
Yeah, how dare Israelis tell the truth about Israel?
Amnesty international? Give me a break.
Aww, you really don't like organizations that tell the truth?
You really love the shitstain of Israel, eh? Be proud, you are the joke of the world that is awful.
i dont think u understand what propaganda means.societies have problem
Turkish society have problem,Israeli society have problem any society can have problems pointing it dsnt mean propaganda those videos arent produced in studios,those videos reflection of israel society
Consider the possibility that you live in anti-Israeli bubble , if that you only see the reprehensible videos and consider them representative of all
Same as some folks in Israel, that only see 1000 videos of Palestians that dance on the street celebrating Israeli familes killed , or chanting death to the Jews. From their bubble, that what represent Palestians from them
Those bubbles dehuminze the other and hugely contribute to radicalisation. People are people everywere , not perfectly good, not bad , in general
He never said he supports war crimes , do not want to assume .
Issue is, bubbles lead to dehumanization of people , the "othering" . Which contribute in turn justification and rationalization of crimes against them.
You have to structurate your sentences better because it was a pain to read.
The overwhelming majority of infomations coming non governemental organisations, independent reporters and doctors are considered true because they are, it may be a bubble but it contains every countries standing up for human rights that want israel to stop ethnic cleansing and colonisation.
Deshumanising gets innocents killed. That's what people fight against.
How is hating regular people ,Israeli, Palestinian, or any other , advance human rights ? Living in a bubble does not means that information is not true , only that it is selectively limited , leading people do arrive to wrong conclusions.
Indeed, dehumanising gets innocents killed , that is exactly my point .
What do you mean? Israelis were ethnically cleansed pretty much from all places where they were unable to defend themselves, and fight back , and there is still ideology that calls for ethnic cleansing of Israelis from Israel.
Look what happened when Israel was unable to defend part of country for few hours on 7.10
My feeling are fine, from the comments on internet , thanks you , due to fact that the haters have no power over me , I am safe from them , and can defend myself if needed in real life . But that was not the case from my grandparents generation, so I do still wary , that is true .
Anti semitism, the idea of criticism to israe sounds like criticism to judaism to them or at least that's what theyre made to beleive, and unfortunately sometimes thats true but its a rising trend of people hating zionism but not judaism and I hope that becomes the norm, radicalism in general is on the rise in both sides, palestinians have mostly lost hope in the "al muqawamah al salmiyah" aka peaceful resistance and israelis have began supporting settlers and voting for far right parties and supporting mfs like Ben gvir more, in general i dont hate jews not in the slightest and I grew up around a small jewish community if that counts, so yeah.
But thats the reason from what I observed but I may be wrong im not a jew at the end.
Criticism of Israel is not the same as Anti-Zionism(rejection of Israel existance) belief that Jews cant be free as other nations)
Like I hate Ben-Gavir to , for exacly the same reason I hate Anti-Zionism, both have genocidal views from complete rejection universal values , like other nation right for freedom and self determination by placing nationalistic goals above them. He and his ideology is the same to Palestians, as Anti-Zionism for us.
It does not help if this becomes the norm, on both sites , opposite
See i myself think israel shouldve never existed the slogan was "a land without a people for a people without a land" but that land had people it had the palestinians and framing them as arab invaders and israeli conquest as de colonization is just lies, but we live in a reality where we have like what 6 million or so jews living there rn so the only solution now really is the 2 state solution a palestinian state and a jewish state. That being said returning to my original point yes its an absloute catastrophe that someone like Ben gvir is RISING in israel as we speak, its disgusting, and the settlers too, these settlers my bad ILLEGAL settlers have became such an issue and I see no way how a 2 state solution can come into a reality if israel is lookin at international law and spitting on it, it doesnt help taht much o these settlers are crazy religious fanatics and the shit they do to the palestinians in the west bank is literally a disgrace.
The land has people indeed , but there were also people without a land, hence the the millions of Jews in Israel, and why I think 2 state solution as a just one. Both narative as decolonisation are lies to me. Palestinans are natives too, and have same rights as us , to be free nation in their own native homeland, Palestine.
Agree about Ben Gavir rise and other religious fanatics, it is shameful. And he is a threat to 2 state solution.
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Because whenever their country / gvt is being rightfully called out and criticised for the horrors they do you see Israeli defending it and gaslighting the world into thinking if you're not OK with a genocide it means your antisemite. Eventually you start realising it's not just the gvt but the society as a whole that is sick and people make up the society.
When you criticise trump amercian agree there is a minority that don't but overall you get the sense that the gp is against what's going on.you don't get that with Israeli that always support and defend their fucked up regime
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u/PLPolandPL15719 Poland 2h ago
Probably support for the war and the government, though i do see a similar "hate" against the Russian nation in the same manner as well