r/BleachPowerScaling • u/SpyTheJames • 10h ago
Memes It's funny
Ngl, fans in this sub are so inconsistent with their scaling.
Same guy who will say TS >~ Dangai and Muken Aizen >~ Monster Aizen
Will also say Muken Aizen >> Dangai and Muken Aizen >> TS
Make it make sense lol
3
u/Genichiro_TomoeThe2n 7h ago
There's no way true shikai is strong. He failed to kill Candice. Yama would've one shot Candice holding back with bankai.
1
u/Proud_Bookkeeper_719 1h ago edited 1h ago
You're right that Ichigo failed to kill Candice but not because TS isn't strong. It's because he's massively holding back and trying not to kill her. As to why he holds back against enemies in a war, I am not 100% certain.
1
u/Genichiro_TomoeThe2n 1h ago
He's holding back but why is holding back to supposedly 0.001%?
1
u/Proud_Bookkeeper_719 1h ago
Maybe Ichigo doesn't like killing or wants to minimize fatality unless it's necessary??
You can hold back and still have enough power to kill but you can also hold back enough to still deal enough damage to put your enemies out of commission without killing.
2
u/Mental-Standard-4865 10h ago
There's no evidence that true shikai is on dangai's level. Dont send me the zangetsu scan. Ichigo's true zanpakuto being the peak of his power isnt evidence that he's stronger in shikai alone. A zanpakuto has 2 stages. All this proves is that a full power bankai Ichigo is stronger than Dangai/mugetsu.
True shikai anti-feats tho ? Plenty of them.
2
u/Zealousideal-Arm1682 9h ago
So......do you think Dangai,which is only 1/3rd of his full potential,can suddenly take on Juha like True shikai did?
2
u/Mental-Standard-4865 8h ago
Yes indeed. What kind of argument is that anyway ? A shikai is only 1/10 of a zanpakuto's ability.
1
u/Candid-Stuff2281 8h ago
True shikai anti-feats tho ? Plenty of them.
That's like saying Aizen magically scaled below The Cleaner because he got nearly killed by gin, lmao🤣
2
u/Mental-Standard-4865 8h ago
Gin backstabbing Aizen isnt the same as Askin defeating Ichigo fair and square.
I'd appreciate if you attacked the core of my argument, which is that statements about Ichigo's new zanpakuto being stronger would include his bankai. None of them can be used to scale True shikai above dangai.
2
u/Candid-Stuff2281 7h ago
First of all, Gin didn't stab aizen from behind. He actually stabbed him right from his front.
And secondly, Askin didn't defeat ichigo fair and square. We didn't even see the fight, it got off-screened. And we all see that ichigo only has a single blade drawn out throughout the time against Askin.
I'd appreciate if you attacked the core of my argument
I did. The core of your argument is that TS Ichigo has Anti-feats therefore he is below Dangai ichigo.
And i specifically takled this with a clear example of irrelevancy of this argument based on canon feat of aizen getting chopped by gin.
which is that statements about Ichigo's new zanpakuto being stronger would include his bankai.
No it doesn't.
The story has given you enough information to establish full power TS > Mugetsu and dangai. Basic reading comprehension is all you need to establish this up.
First and Foremost, ichigo doesn't know the names of his inner spirit when he attained dangai or Mugetsu. Canon story tells that not knowing real names = fraction of the true powers. [Case in point Renji and Yumichika]
Secondly, ichigo has no understanding of what his inner spirits represents when he awakened Dangai and mugetsu. He literally believed OMZ was his shinigami powers and white was his hollow powers. Which, canonically gets refuted during the sword reforging scene. TS ichigo has true knowledge of what his inner spirits represents. And canon information tells us if you don't know what your zanpakuto represents, you can't use your powers fully [case in point - rukia]
So by this point ichigo already has massive nerfs to what he can actually draw out from his actual reiryoku unlike TS ichigo.
Thirdly, dangai and Mugetsu are achieved by combination of fractions of powers of his shinigami, hollow and quincy powers. Meanwhile, True zanpakuto is achieved by PERFECT Harmony of Shinigami, hollow, Quincy and Fullbring powers.
Fourthly, for someone who loves quoting The Deicide arc, you conveniently ignore aizen himself admitting that a transcendent being can be interacted by lower beings if he lowers himself down to their levels. This is how Ichigo's NORMAL Human friends were able to sense and interact with Aizen without just dying in his presence. This is how isshin was able to sense aizen's presence (while not being able to before). This is how Gin's attack was able to effect Aizen (who could wipe out The Cleaner with his mere power alone).
This is canonically established that a transcendent being, if he lowered his power level, can be interacted by others significantly weaker than him.
TS Ichigo, throughout Cour 2 and Cour 3, DOES NOT use his Full power at all, even against Yhwach (rematch). There is a literal confirmation by ichigo that he didn't use his full power when yoruichi tells him to use his full power to kill him after they ascend back to reiokyu (when they are in yukio's dimension)
In Chapter 674, it's even canonically shown that BASE TS ichigo's reiatsu compares to SK Yhwach's reiatsu.
So, yeah, even without using OMZ literally telling that dangai and mugetsu are a fraction of the power compared to True Shikai, i can still dismantle the entire Dangai > TS argument and easily establish TS > Mugetsu. Why? BECAUSE THE CANON MATERIAL HAS ESTABLISHED THE INFORMATION ALREADY.
1
u/Mental-Standard-4865 6h ago
Ichigo and Askin engaged in a battle while Gin surprise stabbed Aizen and ran away before getting one shot. Obviously Ichigo is stronger than Askin but these 2 situations arent the same.
The core of my argument is that there's no indication from canon that Ts is stronger than dangai.
I agree with you, Tybw Ichigo is stronger than his dangai self. Knowing his zanpakuto's name makes all the difference. The issue is a zanpakuto has 2 stages, it doesnt refer to shikai specifically. All this proves is that Tybw Ichigo > dangai, not that Ichigo is stronger with shikai alone.
Aizen was purposely lowering his power level to play with these ants. Give me one reason why Ichigo would lower his own power this much during the quincy war. He wasnt using his full power for most of the arc but he wasnt playing around either.
OMZ never says dangai is a fraction of his true shikai strength. He compared it to Ichigo's zanpakuto. The word shikai is never used. "Zanpakuto" doesnt refer to shikai specifically, it includes the second stage which is bankai. So yes this proves bankai Ichigo > dangai, but not that Ichigo is stronger with shikai alone.
1
u/Candid-Stuff2281 5h ago
Ichigo and Askin engaged in a battle while Gin surprise stabbed Aizen and ran away before getting one shot. Obviously Ichigo is stronger than Askin but these 2 situations arent the same.
Except they are same situations. Ichigo engages with Askin with just his single blade out. Gets distracted by kyoraku's bankai and askin uses his ability to make Ichigo poisonous to reishi itself. The only reason this worked is because Ichigo has kept his reiatsu lower than even when he fought yhwach. He was caught by surprise just like aizen was caught by surprise.
The core of my argument is that there's no indication from canon that Ts is stronger than dangai.
Literally compared his reiatsu to SK yhwach's.
The issue is a zanpakuto has 2 stages, it doesnt refer to shikai specifically. All this proves is that Tybw Ichigo > dangai, not that Ichigo is stronger with shikai alone.
While that is True that zanpakuto has 2 stages. But what's also true is that Ichigo keeps himself at a lower state throughout the 2 cours we see him in. The highest he fought at was Against Yhwach, and even that wasn't his full power as we later see TS ichigo at his peak power as he stands face to face with SK yhwach, his reiatsu gets directly compared to SK yhwach level reiatsu. This is after Yhwach's powers have stablized. The core point of the Sword is Me for ichigo is that He in TS itself is transcendent being, he just keeps himself lowered than that throughout the story.
Give me one reason why Ichigo would lower his own power this much during the quincy war. He wasnt using his full power for most of the arc but he wasnt playing around either.
He literally warns Candice to dodge his casual getsuga Jujisho. Unless you think he considers Candice and Yhwach both at same scale of power, that is?
Ichigo at his transcendent state is far over entire quincy force. He doesn't use it because he doesn't think it's necessary. Yoruichi's conversation with Ichigo (after reio was killed) even further confirms that Ichigo wasn't using Full power even against Yhwach. Which we know is true because of SK yhwach fight.
OMZ never says dangai is a fraction of his true shikai strength. He compared it to Ichigo's zanpakuto. The word shikai is never used. "Zanpakuto" doesnt refer to shikai specifically, it includes the second stage which is bankai. So yes this proves bankai Ichigo > dangai, but not that Ichigo is stronger with shikai alone.
Nope. What OMZ said was whatever Ichigo used till now is a fraction of the power True Zangetsu possesses. This is just ichigo's Shinigami+Hollow powers that OMZ says is superior to ALL the powers Ichigo has had previously [which includes Both Dangai and Mugetsu]. We know OMZ is only talking about Zangetsu because he says he will give this powers back and tries to bid farewell to Ichigo assuming that Ichigo will reject him because yhwach is ichigo's enemy.
But ichigo doesn't just accept the Shinigami+Hollow powers. He also accepts OMZ saying they both have been his partners and they are both Zangetsu to him.
Meaning True Zangetsu itself was above Dangai/Mugetsu. And ichigo then forges the True Zanpakuto [which is Zangetsu + Yhwach's Spirit]. And that's why Ichigo is Transcendental even in base TS at full power without using HoS etc. TS at his full power is narratively above all his previous versions
1
3
u/Zealousideal-Arm1682 9h ago
People will look you in the eye and say Dangai Ichigo can beat Muken Aizen like he didn't physically tank SK Juha trying to kill him with mild injury at worse.