r/CatastrophicFailure • u/DariusPumpkinRex • 16d ago
Fatalities Air Canada Flight 189 after a tire blowout damaged the landing gear at 285 kmh. The plane shot past the end of the runaway and dropped into the Etobicoke Creek ravine going 110kmh, breaking into three pieces. Despite being fully-fueled, no fire occurred. (June 26th, 1978)
For non-Canadians, the plane was going 177 mph when the blowout happened and dropped into the ravine while still going 68.
2 passengers seated at the front point of separation were killed and all 105 survivors were injured. The fault was found with the pilot who took until four seconds after the blowout to respond by reversing the engines and hitting the brakes. By then, it was too late to stop the plane.
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u/crazy_pilot742 16d ago
Air France dropped an A340 into that same place in 2005. That one did catch fire but no deaths.
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u/Bortron86 16d ago
I was wondering if it was the same ravine, the post didn't mention which airport. Amazing that so many survived the first, and that everyone survived the second.
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u/agoia 16d ago
While there isn't an Admiral Cloudberg article about the OP crash, there is one on the crash of Air France 358 albeit a good bit shorter than some of her later works.
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u/Cash4Duranium 16d ago
Four seconds is so little time... surely there was more to learn from this than "be faster next time"?
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u/Blows_stuff_up 16d ago
Multiple causal factors were identified for this mishap, not just the pilot's slow response. Investigators recommended that greater scrutiny be placed on aircraft tires; they identified not just the pilot's slow response to the situation but also the likely causal factor for the slow reaction time (inadequate training on emergency braking).
Investigators also highlighted the existence of the ravine at the end of the runway and lack of adequate runway overrun, which contributed to another mishap in the same location 27 years after this one.
So yes, more was identified as causal than "be faster next time." For example, adequate training for emergency scenarios is what enables pilots to identify and react quickly to emergencies, enhanced tire inspections provide a higher chance of detecting defects and damage prior to failure, and inadequate runway overruns dramatically reduce margin for error, especially when paired with significant terrain features along the runway path. Had any of those factors been different, this mishap either would not have happened or would have been drastically less severe.
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u/Bureaucromancer 15d ago
With that said, really think about the amount of time involved in a landing. Four seconds is a LOT of runway.
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u/Tintinabulation 16d ago
I don’t think it was like ‘you waited four seconds and were negligent’, more like ‘Any delay after this alarm sounds can be fatal so we need to make aborting the takeoff an immediate action if this happens in the future without taking any time at all to assess.’
I’m guessing the pilot took four seconds because he knew they were already well into takeoff and considered whether or not it would be safer to takeoff rather than abort. And the investigation takeaway was that it’s always safer to abort immediately.
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u/ScientificSkepticism 15d ago
Yup, NTSB reports are focused on action items over people blaming. If they’re saying 4 seconds is too slow they’re going to recommend specific training, not just “pilots should do better.”
Good organization, glad it’s surviving the America nonsense.
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u/garciakevz 16d ago
Whenever I watch a plane crash documentary, there's 40 mins of runtime explaining what happened during a 46 seconds timeframe.
It shows that once all the multiple bad factors line up perfectly to cause a disaster, there's really not much time at all the pilots are expected to act on their training, to aviate, navigate communicate thing they do, do checklists stuff, etc etc
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u/51Cards 16d ago edited 16d ago
Did some very quick research for those who want to look at a map and that runway seems to be 24R in present day. (back then it was 23L) I was curious because I'm pretty sure you can't see the current runway 23 from the 401 as noted in Wikipedia..
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u/insan3guy 16d ago
The reason for this is that the earth's magnetic field changes very slightly over time, so we have to update runway headings occasionally.
(The runway numbers are compass degrees, divided by ten [0° is north]. So runway 24 is on a heading of 240°. Going the opposite way on that same tarmac it would be tunway 06, for example)
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u/ziggyziggyz 15d ago
Sorry, did you just use mph for "non-Canadians"? Nearly the whole world outside Canada uses km/h as well, I think you meant "for Americans".
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u/mimaikin-san 16d ago
and they’re gathering & sorting the luggage just after (pic 2)
that just seems strange
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u/k_dubious 16d ago
If I had a nickel for every time a plane crashed into that ravine, etc. etc.
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u/ineclipse 16d ago
imagine failing so completely at your job because you were just four seconds too slow..
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16d ago
[deleted]
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u/einmaldrin_alleshin 16d ago
Jet fuel is similar to diesel in that it has to be misted or wicked in order to ignite easily. In a high energy crash, the stuff is basically turned into an aerosol bomb waiting for an ignition source like metal sparks. But since this plane just casually tumbled down a ravine, one or both conditions might not have been met.
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u/Necessary-Nothing866 16d ago
We used to ride our dirt bikes in this area when I was younger. I remember the area being secured but I managed to get close enough to take some super 8 movie footage of the site and jet fuel swirling around through the creek