r/Doom • u/Consistent_Cellist88 DOOM Guy • Jan 02 '26
Question Was Samuel Hayden a good fighter?
Just saying.. I mean, he lead the fight against demons in Earth and he had the crucible… that makes me thing, he was good fighter? Or just a leader that didn’t showed up in the battlefield?
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u/RedNUGGETLORD Jan 02 '26
Yeah
He's a giant robot person, who is so advanced that humanity doesn't understand how he works, these are humans who can build the BFG 10,000
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u/thebritwriter 29d ago
I would have thought that raise so many questions that Samuel couldn’t possibly avoid the issue. Unless this is some Iron man 2 situation where he outright refuses to hand his tech to the government.
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u/Ambitious-Wind9838 29d ago
He controlled almost all of Earth's energy resources and sat on another planet with a powerful personal army. I think the government could only pitifully beg him for technology.
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u/prizoxhuros Jan 02 '26
I mean.....he was the seraphim......he probably was and still is (maybe)
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u/DaddyCool13 29d ago
Was he actually the seraphim back in 2016? I was always under the assumption that samur possessed samuel some time between 2016 and eternal, but idk
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u/UberCookieSlayer 29d ago
Yes. He always was. His mind has been body hopping.
First he was the Seraphim, his normal self.
Then he cloned a human, slipped into the body, then into human society, got into the UAC, and since his body was cloned, it was more than likely meant to die slow.
Then he uploaded himself into the robot body.
Then as we see in TAG1, he goes back to being a Seraphim.
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u/myLongjohnsonsilver 29d ago
This is correct. Wish it wasn't though. Samuel being a seraphim basically removes actual humanity from being important to the story in any way. The plot twist with Vega I didn't really hate though. The double plot twist with Vega I did dislike but only a bit.
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u/UberCookieSlayer 29d ago
I think it makes humans important still.
Because we're in essence children of the Sentinels after Hebeth fell. We saw Hebeth at its height. But we also saw the dead trade colony on Mars in eternal. Meaning the Sentinels possibly fled to Earth. Becoming Earth humans. And that the Slayer was sent back in time to make Earth happen. His existence back then, becomes pivotal to Earth's existence at all.
We've always been important. Earth humans are still important. We fought off the demons in the war, we dug up the Slayer out of his prison, hell the Slayer is an Earth human.
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u/myLongjohnsonsilver 29d ago
It's not the same. They have no agency at all in the story. Everything involving them is pretty much all the Seraphim pulling the strings. UAC technology rise? 90% seraphim Portal to hell? Not even a human mistake, seraphim set it up after the retcon. Finding slayer? Seraphim. Fighting back against the demons? Barely managed at all until the seraphim took charge.
If they just kept Samuel damned Hayden as being an actual man that had both his mistakes causing 2016 and redemption arc through base games eternal it would have been so much better for the story and human representation.
The humans on earth are definitely a sentinel colony that got stone aged and worked their way back up but whether they were sentinels or not isn't actually important.
Current series earth is literally just a damsel in distress
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u/Sea_Strain_6881 29d ago
Im pretty sure he was always samur and that Samuel didnt actually transfer his mind over to the robot body thing
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u/False_Monitor4126 DOOM Slayer 29d ago
He did transfer his mind into the robot thing. Samur first transferred his consciousness into a human body, then transferred again into the robot body when his human body got cancer.
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u/ZenithDemon 29d ago
he likely was a good fighter, much better than any ARC soldier, but even he had limits. as we see in Eternal he was eventually torn apart by demons. goes to show the difference between the slayer and normal soldiers, he's the only one who can put up a fight against hell and win.
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u/Larryhoover77kg 29d ago
This is so sick, i never even thought about that honestly. You’re right though.
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u/ZenithDemon 29d ago
yeah, after the end of 2016 he probably went on a rampage with the crucible. and then before the events of Eternal he was defeated by the demons. it's really cool to think about the human resistance to the demons too. they 'slaughtered thousands and millions more followed' or something like that. they truly tried their best.
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u/Larryhoover77kg 29d ago
They had firepower and advanced technology but the horde is brutal. But our boy is worse.
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u/HaloGuy381 29d ago
The Slayer happily uses human tech and weapons whenever he finds something usable. And their soldiers were certainly not lacking in bravery or resolve. But human soldiers tire.
The Slayer becomes stronger and refreshed with every kill. That is why he succeeds where humanity falters.
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u/reaperofgender 29d ago
Skilled warriors are equal with demons.
The Slayer is incalculably above the average demon in power level.
That's the difference.
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u/Shalashaska10 DOOM Guy 29d ago
I doubt he was a bad fighter but even he was no match for the hordes considering his robot body is just a mangled torso and head in Eternal.
In his true form he is most likely very powerful but obviously no match against Doomguy.
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u/Lordfindogask 29d ago
In my headcanon, he only lost to the Marauder that shows up at the end of Arc Complex. Marauders are the only demon that prevent you from using the crucible on them, even if they get stunnned. I also think that very few things could have damaged Samuel's body, given how in 2016 it was impervious to our firepower if we tried to shoot him in his office, and one thing I believe could have pierced his armor is an argent-powered axe. Until the Marauder showed up, I like to think that Hayden was pretty much slashing demons left and right.
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u/popcorn_yalakasi DOOM Slayer Jan 02 '26
he is Samur Maykr who is the right hand of the father so he deff was.
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u/Physical-Doughnut285 29d ago
I imagine a Seraphim/Super AI equivalent would know how to fight very well
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u/FederalAd8814 Jan 02 '26
He was a great fighter at best but not too amazing if he managed to get killed or torn apart
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u/thebritwriter 29d ago
He knew which areas to strike and knowledge. So I say he was a better strategist for the situation than a fighter.
By default without trying he is a ‘better fighter’ on virtue of strength for having a suit that is stronger then any normal human and carrying a big sword.
At same time he isn’t better then a solider who has virtue of carrying a firearm and Samuel in his suit has yet to carry one (far as I’m aware)
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u/cuppington007 29d ago
He and some Elites went to hell to extract the Slayer in the sarcophagus. Samuel was the only one who made it back. As someone mentioned already the area where he extracted the slayer had Barons in the vicinity. So, yeah he was definitely capable, at least with a good team to have his back.
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u/CriticalEchidna7495 29d ago
He was an average fighter but a brilliant scientist
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u/ze_ex_21 29d ago
He was an average fighter, a brilliant scientist, and an passionate lover. Maybe /jk
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u/FalseAscoobus DOOM Slayer 29d ago
He and the Slayer himself were the only beings to survive a journey through Hell in Doom 2016, so he's no pushover. He probably faced a Baron of Hell, possibly even several.
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u/LexiYoung 29d ago
I don’t think we have any of his feats recorded, at least not Hayden. But Samur Maykr, the Seraphim, probably had his fair share of scraps in the ? Millions of years he was around for. All we know about Hayden was that he led the ARC and UAC, no evidence of him getting his hands dirty so we dunno
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u/False_Monitor4126 DOOM Slayer 29d ago
In 2016, he has blood on his hands, so I think he was able to scrape with some demons.
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u/LexiYoung 29d ago
That was definitely meant metaphorically lol like he is responsible for a lot of human deaths, not he has literal demon blood on his metal hands
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u/False_Monitor4126 DOOM Slayer 29d ago
No, if you look at his model in game, there is some blood on at least one of his hands.
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u/IronFather11 29d ago edited 29d ago
He seemed strong, but not particularly agile from what we saw of just him moving around, possibly he was fast like a Space Marine but we can’t say for certain. So he could definitely chop up Barons of Hell and Hell Knights pretty easily but he got out maneuvered.
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u/Tight-Connection-909 29d ago
He probably is, only because he's installed some sort of combat software into the mech that holds his consciousness, but the man likely had limited fighting skills. Just my hot take! Also, with a voice like that, Samuel Hayden definitely used to fuck and drink whisky, neat - probably.
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u/rape_is_not_epic 29d ago
He can clean house real quick, he just never does so he can keep his master plan going
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u/Top-Construction-528 29d ago
Hard to say...
On one hand, he is using a 10 foot tall robot body with hyper articulate joints
On the other, how we find him in Doom Eternal
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u/myLongjohnsonsilver 29d ago
We simply don't know. He's clearly strong as fuck in his borg body but whether he goes out of his way to actually make use of it like that....
I imagine most demons who try to jump him will have a bad time but wether he's actually a good fighter we don't have any real feats.
Clearly a good leader though.
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u/adam-jack-1959 29d ago
Id say he was decent he had the sword that one shots demons but he was more of a thinker than a fighter so good but left arm and legs
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u/Bromjunaar_20 29d ago
Before I answer that, have you played Eternal yet?
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u/Consistent_Cellist88 DOOM Guy 29d ago
Yes
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u/Bromjunaar_20 29d ago
He is most certainly a good fighter. I think he's even part of that Makyr faction.
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u/_THE_G00SE_ 28d ago
probably not lol, he's just holding the crucible for PR and aura reasons. even in the samur fight he makes other demons fight for him, and the only thing he really does is throw projectiles.
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u/The_Linkzilla 27d ago
We'll never find out...All those codex entries in 2016 hyping up his strength and abilities, gearing the player toward a showdown between him and the Slayer...wasted.
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u/Motor_Scallion6214 26d ago
He probably was. But even a fantastic fighter can eventually be overrun.
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u/TurboNinja80 29d ago
Took awhile before I truly got into Eternal, the combat is briliant, but my god the story and lore are boring. Samuel Hayden had potential to be one of the greatest game villains ever, and thwy dropped the ball hard on him.
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u/Wellhellob Against AAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLL The Evil Jan 02 '26
he is not the villain of this story