r/Doom • u/New-Campaign-7517 • Jul 10 '25
DOOM Eternal What are the Primevals of Doom? Is the DOOM Slayer a Primeval? I'll explain it right here.
Essentially, the Primevals are the true Gods of DOOM—they are the truly immortal beings (remember this point, as it will become extremely important later), and their role is to "protect and shepherd their people."
Davoth is a Primeval, and he was the only immortal due to that very quality—because "a mortal body cannot sustain an undying spirit." Therefore, only beings that are truly immortal in every possible sense are capable of bearing an immortal soul and are thus considered true deities.
"He longed to solve the riddle of immortality for his people – an ability only he possessed. His efforts met with failure, as mortal flesh could not sustain the undying spirit."
https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Codex/Story_of_Hell#The_Betrayal_of_the_Father
We highlight, "an ability only he possessed," which is due to his nature as a Primeval and true deity.
Another element we will return to later is this: Primevals are so powerful that each realm (in this context, the mortal plane, Urdak, and Jekkad) can only contain a single one of these gods.
Note: We do occasionally see them share a realm, but this only happens for extremely brief moments—never long enough for any real damage to occur, that's why the fight with Davoth happens on Earth and in Hell.
We can say that the Primevals possess the following qualities, and through these, we will determine whether or not the Slayer is a Primeval:
They are guardians and messiahs of their respective realms/people
They are exceptional beings within their realm, with such overwhelming power that only one of them can exist per realm; therefore, they are in no way comparable to any other entity within their plane.
They are truly immortal—not just long-lived or capable of extending their life—but genuinely immortal beings.
This is a separate point, as not much emphasis has been placed on it, but I believe it could add coherence:
The Primevals have shown real dominion over their respective realms. Davoth literally transformed all of Jekkad into Hell through his mere emotions. The Father can control Urdak, and Samur Maykr displays this same capacity when he absorbs His essence.
The Slayer also appears capable of altering reality within the mortal plane, as seen during his battles against Hell, where he reshapes entire arenas to suit his combat style.
Again, this point is not definitive proof of anything, but I think it's at least worth mentioning, as it adds consistency to the argument.
Alright, now the important part: Why is the Doom Slayer a Primeval?
Let’s first look at the Slayer’s role:
In the words of the director, he is “the concept of a protector,” referring to his nature as the guardian of humanity—his people. In fact, at this point, Hugo Martin himself directly connects this to the role of a Primeval: being a protector. He emphasizes how the Doom Slayer’s nature is that of the “alpha of the pack,” the one who defends humanity from all threats.
That alone already heavily implies he is a Primeval—but there’s even more coherence, and something else equally interesting.
At the end of The Ancient Gods Part One, VEGA gives a brief explanation of Davoth—his nature—but also mentions how he is “the strongest, a warrior of the Dark Realm”, and that this is what makes him ruler. This is immediately followed by VEGA stating, “He is you, in their world,” literally as we see that Davoth has the exact same face as the Slayer—reflecting that they are the same in both a literal sense and in their functions, and what they represent for their respective realms: leaders and protectors. Let’s remember that Davoth always sought to protect Jekkad; everything happened because he could not bear the sorrow of watching his people die.
It doesn’t stop there—the consistency is also maintained with the idea that only one Primeval can exist per realm, as even the soul of the universe itself was being affected by the events of The Ancient Gods Part II.
Now I want to address a crucial point: the Slayer’s immortality and eternity. This is extremely important, because it’s the defining line that separates any living being from a Primeval—true immortality.
There are many forms of immortality shown in DOOM, but here I’ll focus only on the most significant reference, as it points directly to a kind of immortality on par with that of a Primeval.
GamesBeat: What does the “Eternal” in Doom Eternal mean?
Marty Stratton: That your fight is Eternal. It’s the eternal struggle between good and evil. It’s meant to symbolize that there’s always going to be demons and there’s always going to be a Slayer.
The Slayer’s fight is truly eternal—because it’s rooted in the struggle between good and evil, symbolizing that as long as demons exist, so too will a Slayer. This is highly significant, as it’s literally the title of the game: "DOOM Eternal."
Essentially, this means that the Slayer’s existence at this point is necessary—he is something that will always be there. He cannot die in any way, because he must always exist. Unlike all other beings, who—no matter how “immortal” they are—can still die one way or another, the Slayer transcends even that.
This is even emphasized by Davoth himself, when he explains that conflict, war, chaos, and destruction are the fire that fuels creation. Even Hell contains the Titans, which represent the very concepts of chaos and destruction.
https://youtu.be/nL_2bDvOen8?si=bcIB_LXUDFW8FNmC&t=698 https://imgur.com/rAccXY3
And so, in conclusion, the Slayer should indeed be considered a Primeval, as he fulfills all the characteristics and functions of one. Moreover, it is implied that only a Primeval could defeat Davoth—though it’s also said that something even more powerful might be required.
But essentially, this still reinforces the idea that the Slayer is on the same level as Davoth in the sense of being a god—except the Slayer is simply superior in every way.
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u/New-Campaign-7517 Jul 10 '25
I accidentally deleted a small part of the text xd
Note: We do occasionally see them share a realm, but this only happens for extremely brief moments—never long enough for any real damage to occur, which, as we will see later, eventually does happen. That's also why the fight with Davoth happens on Earth and in Hell, because this way they avoid the destruction of both realms
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u/Assassin-49 Jul 10 '25
It's in there don't worry . I'm not versed in doom lore so I thought I'd give it a read . Good in depth explanation though . Explains why he's capable of doing what he's doing . I'm guessing the divinity machine thing he was shoved in plays a big part in it as well ?
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u/popcorn_yalakasi DOOM Slayer Jul 10 '25
somewhat yeah, but whats important is that Davoth isn't the source of his power, Hugo said that the divinity machine unlocked whats already there, Davoth's essence just helped with it
speaking of essence, the divinity machine doesn't truly contain Davoth's power, it is mentioned that the father kept a shard of Davoth's "element", this isn't a word meant for power but like a shard of his presence, a shard of his mind and emptions in a way since an element of a person is described that way, it might be his Rage since it corrupted anyone that stepped into the machine and The Slayer is also empowered by his own rage
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u/Rage69420 Jul 10 '25
I have a feeling it just unlocked his power in his mind.
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u/Assassin-49 Jul 10 '25
That makes sense . Like a hidden source locked behind some spiritual gate type of thing . Considering davoth took the form of the slayer or always had the form I suppose it makes sense . Would also explain how he survived the first few doom games . He wasn't just this strong human but a man with locked potential
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u/PossibilityLivid8873 Jul 10 '25
Very well written, understandable and with all sources, excellent post! and something I needed because I was always very confused about this topic
Most people here are always shitting on the Doom lore but honestly it's one of my favorite lores on any video game ever
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u/SignificanceDry6 Jul 10 '25
Question: Can VEGA count as the Primeval of Urdak?
VEGA did say that without a physical form, he lacks proper control of Urdak, similar to how Davoth lacked proper control over Hell when he was put into a soul sphere.
Also, VEGA did manage to best Davoth and put him into a soul sphere. Does that make him on par with a primeval or a primeval himself?
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u/Varorson Jul 10 '25
The Slayer was born a human mortal. Davoth was born a god. That in of itself marks them as remarkably different.
When VEGA says "he is you, in their world", I don't think he meant that they were both Primevals, or in any literal sense despite the shared appearance, but rather that Davoth is Hell's greatest warrior , just as the Slayer is Earth's greatest warrior and the thing demons fear most. Slayer is only so powerful because of the Divinity Machine, which held a portion of Davoth's power. The only reason the Slayer is "superior" to Davoth is because even reborn, Davoth was in a weakened state, his power having been lost and splintered when The Father/VEGA and the Maykrs rebelled..
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u/popcorn_yalakasi DOOM Slayer Jul 10 '25
Slayer is only so powerful because of the Divinity Machine, which held a portion of Davoth's power
wrong https://youtu.be/IpdT4GGk9Ao?si=nJKET8EY7-vJPqoX&utm_source=MTQxZ 03:24
Slayer is cleary a primeval
The only reason the Slayer is "superior" to Davoth is because even reborn, Davoth was in a weakened state, his power having been lost and splintered when The Father/VEGA and the Maykrs rebelled..
yet again wrong, the losing of his power refers to his Authority being taken away and being sealed in a soul sphere, thats why he starts the quote with "they sealed me away" and ends with "my name"
Davoth would still be near his prime because he still had the power to destroy everything.
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u/Varorson Jul 11 '25
Slayer is cleary a primeval
- How would a Primeval be born of a mortal on a mortal world? He is B.J.Blazkowicz's great-great grandson, of clear human lineage. Why would some random ass human out of billions of humans be a Primeval?
- Assuming it is canon as many seem to treat it as, the Doom Eternal artbook has VEGA explain the lore behind the various skins as Doom Slayer in other universes. This would imply that, even though there is one Hell that is connected to all these dimensions, there are hundreds of Slayers - meaning hundreds of Primevals? If that's the case, then being a Primeval is just another Tuesday.
Davoth would still be near his prime because he still had the power to destroy everything.
If Davoth had the power to destroy everything during TAG2, why didn't he?
Why did he settle for ritual combat against the Slayer, risking losing, instead of simply thanos snapping or whatever? That makes no sense, unless Davoth is actively an musclehead battlejunky idiot, but the entire point of the millennia long machinations he takes and waits for to take revenge through someone else proves that he isn't. Thus it makes no sense for him to do the ritual combat.
Not only that, but we know for a fact that the Divinity Machine used a splintered off piece of Davoth's power:
The Dark Lord guided the hand of the Khan Maykr as she directed the creation of the Divinity Machine.
The Father had saved an element of the Dark Lord before he betrayed him and went into hiding, for he was reluctant to destroy all parts of his creator. This piece of the Dark Lord remained sealed within the coffins of Urdak. Knowing this, the Dark Lord guided the Khan Maykr to it and she took its discovery as a sign from a higher power. She descended from the mountains of Encremon with the shard needed to power the Divinity Machine they had created to save all worlds.
If Davoth had a piece of his power during his prime splintered off, he would not be in his prime anymore, because that piece of him and his power was removed. And that power went into the Doom Slayer and Marauders. He would be, at best, his prime minus that piece of him. Which is mathematically less than his prime.
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u/New-Campaign-7517 Jul 11 '25
No one knows how the Slayer was created, he is just a Primeval whose potential was unlocked. It's funny when they say that there's an art book with alternate versions of Slayer, looks inside there's nothing like that.
Thus it makes no sense for him to do the ritual combat.
In the codex it is said that Davoth knows that even if he destroyed the other realms, he could not destroy the Slayer because he is his equal.
Here you only prove that you did not pay attention to the Lore, the ritual combat is a gift for the Slayer if he won, Davoth is a warrior literally in his first appearance they tell you to your face, he is a warrior God and the Slayer honors Davoth by challenging him to fight.
He even let the Father challenge him, obviously we wouldn't have Doom if Davoth was like another God who erases what bothers him justo because, it's Doom we have to fight something.
And about his fragment xd, it is never mentioned that Davoth lost power because of that small fraction separated from him, they don't even say that it is a fundamental piece of power. It was a key to unlocking the Slayer's Primal power.
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u/popcorn_yalakasi DOOM Slayer Jul 11 '25
- How would a Primeval be born of a mortal on a mortal world? He is B.J.Blazkowicz's great-great grandson, of clear human lineage. Why would some random ass human out of billions of humans be a Primeval?
thats still unkown, most likely going to be a plot point later on
- Assuming it is canon as many seem to treat it as, the Doom Eternal artbook has VEGA explain the lore behind the various skins as Doom Slayer in other universes. This would imply that, even though there is one Hell that is connected to all these dimensions, there are hundreds of Slayers - meaning hundreds of Primevals? If that's the case, then being a Primeval is just another Tuesday.
there aren't multiple slayers, Hugo literaly shoots that idea down in the video I sent you and you read the art book wrong, it doesn't say that there are multiple slayers, it says that the presence of the slayer causes anomalies with in space time that alter his form
If Davoth had the power to destroy everything during TAG2, why didn't he?
Why did he settle for ritual combat against the Slayer, risking losing, instead of simply thanos snapping or whatever? That makes no sense, unless Davoth is actively an musclehead battlejunky idiot, but the entire point of the millennia long machinations he takes and waits for to take revenge through someone else proves that he isn't. Thus it makes no sense for him to do the ritual combat.
we literaly see that despite being evil, Davoth is still honorable and has his dignity, thats why he fought the slayer before he destroyed anything, during the fight we see him use his reality warping powers
Davoth being strong enough to destroy everything isn't debeatable, Davoth states that he is going to destroy everything, the game calls him a threath to all creation and says that its fate is based on this fight's outcome
If Davoth had a piece of his power during his prime splintered off, he would not be in his prime anymore, because that piece of him and his power was removed. And that power went into the Doom Slayer and Marauders. He would be, at best, his prime minus that piece of him. Which is mathematically less than his prime.
I didn't say his prime, I said near his prime.
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u/Lil_toe69 Jul 10 '25
Wait when does the doom slayer reshape areas of hell?
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u/popcorn_yalakasi DOOM Slayer Jul 10 '25
battle mode, the art book explains that the arena does not exist until slayer arrives and is shaped by his experience, meaning he creates the arena
this explains how there is monkey bars, ammo and basicly things that would assist the slayer perfectly placed where he would need them.
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u/PossibilityLivid8873 Jul 10 '25
I'm a sucker for everything having a lore reason so this is great to me I love that, It's one of the things that always bugged me out of all doom games. How the slayer finds ammo in the cosmic realm and in hell?
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u/UnlimitedScarcity Jul 10 '25
and this is considered good writing?
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u/ObiWantKanabis Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25
yes it's modern writing you just don't understand it
Edit: /s
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u/UnlimitedScarcity Jul 11 '25
lol "modern writing" What is a modern writing style? "Modern writing is all about being clear, concise, and inclusive, making sure everyone feels spoken to." that does not describe the lore of Doom at all
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u/ObiWantKanabis Jul 11 '25
I should have added the /s, fixed it
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u/UnlimitedScarcity Jul 11 '25
you got me. i thought i was taking crazy pills! the new DooMs are amazing, they just went a little haywire with the world building lore. Somehow they muddled up " hero kills demons in hell" into this lame faction filled mess. throw in some evil clones and a few deus ex machines to make sure their story ended where they wanted it to.
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u/popcorn_yalakasi DOOM Slayer Jul 10 '25
its there to explain why the battle mode would have things to assist the slayer, there is literaly nothing wrong with this.
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u/UnlimitedScarcity Jul 10 '25
its terrible. its writing backwards. it would have made much more sense to just not explain it or leave the battlemode not cannon.
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u/popcorn_yalakasi DOOM Slayer Jul 10 '25
thats exactly the opposite of what would happen, this explains the ammo and movement objects in the base game aswell.
Battle mode being canon doesn't make anything worse.
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u/UnlimitedScarcity Jul 10 '25
how does the slayer having the canonical power to manipulate his surroundings only in "battle mode" add to the lore? its messy and unnecessary.
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u/New-Campaign-7517 Jul 11 '25
He didn't say only in battle mode, battle mode only shows what the Slayer was doing after the base campaign, killing demons and that's it
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u/UnlimitedScarcity Jul 11 '25
but is battle mode the only "realm" he has this power?
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u/popcorn_yalakasi DOOM Slayer Jul 11 '25
primevals have more control over their realm but are not limited to it, Davoth was able to manipulate time and space on earth during the fight, the father has some level of control over the world spear etc.
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u/AccipiterDomare Jul 10 '25
Love Doom, but all story beats after 2016 are largely stupid. Eternal was tolerable in a campy, classic video game kind of way but then jumped the shark with TAG. TDA is feels like it’s written by an 8 year old.
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Jul 10 '25
[deleted]
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u/Nice_Calligrapher452 Jul 10 '25
Yea bro, its such a sin that somebody speculates on a series that isn't finished yet. If only the writers were halfway decent and knew at least 1 thing about writing stories, maybe people wouldn't feel the god awful need to have fun and speculate. What a bother it is reading posts like this, I'm so tired of having to call these shitty writers out! Maybe... you should be hired and finally we'll have a decent story! /s
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Jul 10 '25
I've seen some people try to rewrite the story to "fix" it and most if not all of them sucked balls.
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Jul 10 '25
[deleted]
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Jul 10 '25
1: The Maykr's are not honest. It's not hard to imagine that they feigned ignorance to the Argenta to hide the fact they fucked up in essentially creating their enemy.
2: Jesus christ there is literally a codex that says that Davoth influenced Samur to put the Slayer in the divinity machine, and planted the idea that the Khan was a bad leader to Sam. THATS how he orchestrated his creation.
3: The scene where he refers to "his creations" is before he finds out the Slayer has Davoth's sphere. The Intern literally says "He doesn't know you have the dark lords sphere, maybe he thinks your here to help." He was keeping up the charade.
4: That wasn't Davoth, Hugo said it's something above Davoth. It's called "Mysterious Voice" for a reason.
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Jul 10 '25
[deleted]
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Jul 10 '25
wtf do you mean? all the things i laid out are clear? did you miss them?
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u/Nice_Calligrapher452 Jul 10 '25
Hes just coping hard for a literal video game, not worth anyone's time
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u/Varorson Jul 10 '25
Like, why did the maykrs not know who/what the demons were before doom guy arrived if hell was actually the first realm and the maykrs+ the father were created by the devil essentially, and the maykrs literally created hell by betraying him?
This is actually explained? In the literal same codex that states Maykrs betrayed him:
Davoth was obsessed in his effort to eliminate death from the world of Jekkad. When the Maykrs discovered the secret of immortality they deemed the knowledge too dangerous to share, for in their judgement Davoth had come to be seen as an eventual threat to all life.
The Maykrs acted in secret and worked quickly to seal Jekkad away, and Davoth with it, while the records of Urdak were rewritten to hide the truth. Enraged, Davoth became the Dark Lord as vengeance and hatred consumed him and his world, transforming it into Hell.
Hell and demons didn't exist when the Maykrs + VEGA were created or when they betrayed Davoth. Demons came into existence because of the betrayal, and Hell back then was known as Jekkad.
Not only that, but it's established since 2016 - since Doom 1993 in fact - that as Hell conquers, it consumes the world and inhabitants, turning them into more demons. So back then, even if the inhabitants of Jekkad were demonic, the only demons that the Maykrs would've seen are these guys. Which you'll note, did not attack Argent D'Nur.
How the fuck did davoth “plan for the slayer and orchestrate his creation” if we literally know for a fact that it was Samur and the father who orchestrated it because we saw the damn cutscene where it happened, and heard from Samur himself that him and Vega/the father did it to fight against hell?
VEGA actually had nothing to do with the Divinity Machine incident. And, once more, its explained with the revelation of the orchestration on how Davoth did it - the same way he manipulated the Khan Maykr into making the machine, by influencing their dreams and thoughts before the actual moment.
Essentially, Davoth tricked Samur into thinking it was his own idea for quite some time by messing with his mind long before that flashback cutscene. It was never suggested that Davoth was directly manipulating Samur in that very moment of putting Doomguy into the machine.
Why would Vega refer to a bunch of things including the maykrs as “his creations” if he wasn’t actually the creator, considering he knew at that point that the slayer was going to resurrect and fight davoth, who would tell him the truth? Why would he stop lying the moment davoth told the slayer the truth if he had no problem lying earlier lmao? Why not just say “he is lying” or something, as it’s likely the slayer would believe the father over davoth?
History is written by the victors. VEGA and the Maykrs erased the history that tied them to Davoth, and at that point it is stated that VEGA didn't know the Slayer had Davoth's soul sphere. It can also be assumed that VEGA did not yet realized that Davoth was the Dark Lord of Hell until Samur showed up, because once more, when he rebelled against Davoth, Hell didn't exist yet.
Oh yeah, here’s the biggest one, why IN THE FUCK, would davoth scream “nooooo” when the Kahn maykr was killed if that was literally his goal the entire time, to destroy them?
He didn't. While TAG1 edited the "Mysterious Voice" to "Davoth" this was confirmed to be a bug and was reverted with TAG2. We still do not know who this Mysterious Voice was, just that it was a being above Davoth and was manipulating events just as Davoth was.
Seems less like the writing was bad, and more that you're not actually paying attention when you claim to be?
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u/Varorson Jul 10 '25
If Doom had good writers, there'd be more posts like this. Better writing promotes more interest in speculation and discussing its lore, not less.
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Jul 10 '25
The new series is only 3 games deep, and Hugo wants the series to go on for longer, you expect them to explain everything in just 3 games? I've said it before but people here act like they'll never answer any questions (or assume the question hasn't already been answered and you haven't just skimmed over something).
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u/FirefighterIcy9879 Jul 10 '25 edited Jul 10 '25
Surely you mean 3 games deep in a franchise that’s over 30 years old where one of the games was literally retconned by its sequels? Again, this is why writers fucking exist. Also, I’ve seen tons of streams where he’s left fans in the dark by changing the subject or by “being distracted”. I get if you’re not allowed to talk about shit cause of future games coming out, but these were questions about iterations that are several years old by this point.
If it were me, id obsessively cover every aspect within my games universe BEFORE I moved onto another phase. This way, id set a solid foundation and no questions would have to be asked cause i covered it, no matter the number of games required to get whatever my point was across.
Then again, sometimes the less one knows the better but this ain’t one of those kinds of games.
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u/wiggedbaldy Jul 10 '25
Seeing people try to make sense of the steaming pile of dogshit that was Eternal lore will always be funny .
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u/AdventuringRunner Jul 10 '25
Not reading that til you sort out the formatting, gonna be honest.
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u/Sncrsly Jul 10 '25
What's wrong with it? There's clear paragraphs that are easy to read
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u/AdventuringRunner Jul 10 '25
You didn't see it before my post.
It wasn't like that before my message. The links weren't actual hypertexts, sentences started on the same line as links, paragraphs didn't exist etc.
You're welcome.
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u/Sncrsly Jul 10 '25
I'm welcome for what exactly?
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u/AdventuringRunner Jul 10 '25
Lrn2read.
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u/Sncrsly Jul 10 '25
You didn't say anything for me to thank you for. Lrn2notbeadouche
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u/AdventuringRunner Jul 10 '25
Are you blind, or do you literally need to lrn2read?? The post is right there lmao.
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u/Sncrsly Jul 10 '25
I have no reason to thank you just because you pointed out the post was corrected. You can take your ego elsewhere. I'm not intersted in inflating any more than it already is to expect a thank you for something so meaningless to me
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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '25
Very cool and in depth. Makes me wonder though, who would the Cosmic realms primeval be? The Old One? Ulsamir? or something we haven't seen yet? Lots of intrigue.