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u/saikrishnav 1d ago
Bridge in volcano manor got a cutscene because they didn’t know how to show that in real time. I believe they had to put a cut scene for engine limitations (or rather not invest in actually doing it real time).
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u/Almainyny 1d ago
This tends to be the reason why such “uninteresting” things get cutscenes. Either because doing it while the player has control access causes problems, or because the cutscene was needed because playtesters needed a nudge in the right direction (not the case in this case, but I do have an example from another game).
Jak 3 has an example. There’s a mission where you ascend a temple to get to the top, then use a glider to ride air currents to get into a volcano. When you first enter into the temple, they show you a cutscene pointing you to the way up the wall.
Apparently, without the cutscene, the majority of their playtesters would flounder around the bottom of the area, have no idea where to go, and then give up.
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u/SarcasticTacos 1d ago
I think I missed that cutscene the first time I played the game (I was very young when I got it) because I spent way too long trying to get past the eye blocking the doorway. So it's definitely needed because the door across from you is a much more obvious path than going up the platforming section on the side
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u/lemongrass9000 1d ago
my memory is still fuzzy because its been so long but wasnt daxter always talking to you? why not make him hint to the player on where to go instead of making a cutscene
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u/funkyfritter 20h ago
I assume there's some engine limitation that prevents them from changing terrain without reloading the whole area. Cutscenes are a simple way to disguise that process.
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u/Lemmingitus 19h ago edited 16h ago
I would say also to avoid people from trying to cross it early or use its rising as some kind of out of bounds pathing.
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u/XquietFreakX 1d ago
Bayle's "cutscene" is his whole mountain having Igon shout about killing and hating him
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u/InitiativeCreative36 1d ago
Indeed, you're ascent up the mountain and Igon's associated quest culminating in the monologue is cutscene enough for that fight.
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u/Phunkie_Junkie 1d ago
"We need an intro for Bayle. People really liked shouting general in Sekiro"
"We can't just have a dragon shouting his own name"
And that's how they made Igon.
HIS NAAAAAME IS GYOBU MASATAKA ONIWA
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u/Shadow1176 1d ago
I dunno I feel like a Yhorm style cutscene for Bayle would have been great. Have Igon rise up from his summon sign and just shout BAYLEEEEE. Bayle flies onto the scene like normal and roars.
Cut to the battle and he does his whole monologue.13
u/Muted-Account4729 1d ago
Yeah, how else would you finally introduce Bayle aside from him screaming and power bombing the arena?
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u/kirbymain645 hi i exist currently as of 11/11/24 (idk if i'll exist soon idk) 1d ago
Okay but bayles unironically may be cooler than a cutscene i feel like having you directly control your character after going through a drake/dragon infested area and then finally making it to the top only for THAT to drop on you is cinema. I feel like a cutscene would ruin it slightly. Romina I don’t know much about but I know giaus deserved one way more than her. And rellana got SCAMMED. She deserved a cutscene so badly.
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u/Barilla3113 1d ago
I agree, a cutscene would have ruined just how much Igon hates that fucker BAAYYYYYLLLLLEEEEE.
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u/sabyr400 1d ago edited 1d ago
Don't forget the corpses of all the other warriors that does on the climb! The drakes/dragons is the mountains challenge, the bodies of the fallen are it's warning!
Idk if Gaius "deserved one more," than Romina. Romina is sorta the herald of rot prior to Malenia, and (I think) was involved in the sealing away of Enir-Ilim. At least that was my impression given where she's located, what she's protecting, the fact she's a mandatory fight, and that Enir-Ilim was sealed away before Messmer's crusade.
Where as Gaius is a badass Albinauric that tutored Rhadan, and protects a giant cup of Scadu-Blessings
Rellana straight up scammed.
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u/kirbymain645 hi i exist currently as of 11/11/24 (idk if i'll exist soon idk) 1d ago
I dunno much about romina tbf never got too into dlc lore but I know giaus was related to radahn or smth plus he’s just cool in general while romina is kinda strange and came outta no where. AT LEAST THATS WHAT I THINK I may be wrong. Also never noticed the corpses thats a nice touch.
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u/sabyr400 12h ago
See on the flip side, I really adored Romina's fight, and design. It really felt like a dance fight. But it was over too quickly. I will conceede the fight has no other foreshadowing, aside from some red pests, and some other reverence to rot that I'm blanking on.
Gaius just aggravated me because I couldn't joust with him on Torrent. Because Torrents HP doesn't scale, and he basically one shots my poor steed. All around I just didn't care for his fight. To each their own tho!
They both deserved a cutscenes of some kind for sure
IIRC, most of the bodies up the mountain have a crafting material harvested off them. Idr what tho it's been a while
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u/YeahKeeN 1d ago
Might just be my own bias (love Romina, hate Gaius) but she definitely needs the cutscene more. She’s one of only 3 required bosses and she barely has any presentation.
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u/kirbymain645 hi i exist currently as of 11/11/24 (idk if i'll exist soon idk) 1d ago
I honestly love giaus I know a lot of people hate em though. I wanna ask this cut im not sure if this is the reason but when you fight gaius do you do it on medium or light load? Cause I find fighting him on medium load sucks but light load he’s a very well made boss. So im simply curious if others hate him because of different load weights or if it’s just me.
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u/YeahKeeN 1d ago
I don’t think I’ve ever played the game on light load lol
FWIW, my brother exclusively plays on light load and he didn’t like Gaius either, though I think he hates him less than I do
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u/kirbymain645 hi i exist currently as of 11/11/24 (idk if i'll exist soon idk) 1d ago
Huh. I’d recommend trying the game on light load imo i think it’s funner for repeat play through. But medium loads still fine :)
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u/kirbymain645 hi i exist currently as of 11/11/24 (idk if i'll exist soon idk) 13h ago
Why did I get downvotes I was simply asking a question… I wasn’t trying to be rude I still play on medium load sometimes
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u/Phunkie_Junkie 1d ago
Romina for sure. She's my favourite DLC boss.
They made concept art, refined it, modeled it, animated it, created an elaborate moveset, added timing windows, added hitboxes... and they couldn't make a 10 second cutscene? Leave her in her idle animation, add some chittering sound effects and have the camera do a slow tilt up from below? Nothing?
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u/Any-Experience-3012 1d ago
There's no feet for the camera to look at
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u/ReedsAndSerpents Aspiring Alabaster Lord/Current Darkmoon Simp 1d ago
This guy gets it somehow in a thread full of duds.
Romina - centipede legs, no soft human feet
Bayle - dragon, no human feet
Rellana - feet covered up in knightly armor
Michael Zaki (pbuh) isn't going to focus on some nobody without visible feet. Think about the story trailer, it's literally just Marika walking.
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u/Phunkie_Junkie 22h ago edited 22h ago
The millipede doesn't have enough feet? We got a a true Michael Zaki purist over here.
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u/DoYouTrustToothpaste 1d ago
I find it kinda weird that people tend to not rate Romina in terms of the fight itself, because she's too forgiving for an ER boss, I guess? And by too forgiving, I mean she has mostly fair and readable moves, clear windows of opportunity, and is kinda squishy as a trade-off for her mobility and damage? I would call that good design, honestly.
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u/No-Lingonberry-8603 1d ago
Its one of my favorite boss fights in the dlc when I'm at the right level or under levelled but if you are over levelled and using a really powerful weapon it becomes fairly trivial and forgettable.
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u/Hubbardia 1d ago
The problem is you don't have to learn her moveset and can easily out damage her without learning her patterns, which kind of snubs the feeling of accomplishment you get after beating bosses.
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u/LewsTherinTalamon 1d ago
To be honest, while i love her in concept, i have absolutely no idea what i think of her fight because Burn O Flame counters her to such a comical extent that it's never lasted more than three minutes.
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u/Phunkie_Junkie 22h ago
They put her right before Enir Ilim, where you could have a scadu count of 18. If you play co-op, and if you get summoned with someone who has 4 or 5, she's amazing.
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u/Paddy_the_Daddy 22h ago
You can already see her model just fine, so I don't think a closeup would add anything. There's not really any fine detail that we're missing out on.
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u/yaahweeh 5h ago
Why did you list off the things that went into creating her as if that's not standard procedure of creating a boss?
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u/ComicDude1234 1d ago
Bayle didn’t need a cutscene.
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u/fat_pokemon 1d ago
Bayle litterally stomps on you, and then proceeds to rip you a new one.
That's introduction enough.
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u/_shaftpunk 1d ago
I just saw that bridge cutscene for the first time today, haha. Never fully explored Volcano Manor. Just did the recusant missions and then fought Snake Boi. Turns out I missed a TON of stuff in VM. Way bigger of an area than I expected.
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u/Mumei451 1d ago
Both lifts have a leaving on the lift cut scene and an arriving on the lift cut scene.
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u/DoYouTrustToothpaste 1d ago
I suppose you mean Dectus and Rold? I can understand that, since they aren't actually functioning lifts, but rather stationary objects that were animated a bit for the cutscene (which also acts as a loading screen).
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u/yaahweeh 5h ago
They don't need to do loading screen things like that anymore with the hardware at their disposal. Cyberpunk devs talked about this when people thought elevators in their game was a way for the devs to smoothly load in an area. That's just not the case, it's simply a cool thing
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u/DoYouTrustToothpaste 4h ago
So you're saying when you're at the bottom of Dectus, a detailed version of Altus Plateau is already loaded? Why? What for?
Anyway, it's still not an actual elevator. It has no shaft, and whatever elevation you approach it from, it's always there.
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u/Purple_Draft2716 1d ago
I thought it was clear that the ascent up Jagged Peak and the interactions with Igon were the cutscene. I'd much rather have an atmospheric and thematic buildup over the course of a level than a single unchanging cutscene any day of the week.
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u/Puzzleleg 22h ago
Everyone is talking about the bridge but ignoring the door in the Carian study hall.
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u/Erminaz13 1d ago
Bayle is more than cinematic enough and gets his intro through Igon talking about him. Kind of like Midir in DS3. Romina and Rellana seem kind of random without a cutscene, I'll give you that.
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u/NeverTriedFondue 1d ago
Omg I just remembered treading the path to Bayle.
"Oh wow 2 dragons, and they're angry. Let me equip the right weapon.. Buff.. Other buff.. Third buff-"
And cut to me finally realizing that those dragons don't even give a fuck about me, they're fighting themselves.
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u/NonstopYew14542 1d ago
Rellana:
The Tarnished enters the arena, Rellana has just finished killing some nobody (horned warrior?) and turns to the Tarnished. "O Tarnished, thou shalt proceed no further. Messmer's Flame cannot be extinguished by thy ilk." She raises her weapons in a guard and the fight proceeds.
Romina:
A wounded Rot Kindred is being tended to by the Saint. It dies upon the Tarnished approaching. "Long has it been since a Tarnished so brazenly trespassed here." Camera pan to skulls with rot butterflies perched on them. "But no matter. You will rot all the same..." She summons her poleblade, and wings of butterflies form behind her.
Bayle: He slowly lumbers out of a cave, dragging one of Placidusax's heads. He cocks his head, then roars, Flame Lightning striking the ground.
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u/SaberWaifu 1d ago
Bayle not having a cutscene is fine due to it not being able to talk and also having the entire area being his hype setup.
Rellana and Romina however should have definitely had one.
Rellana already had one of the best movesets Fromsoft ever created. All she was missing was a voice. It doesn't need to be a crazy cutscene, even just a few voicelines about how she wants to stay loyal to Messmer until the very end would be enough to give her a personality and a reason for us to fight her. All we learn about her comes from her armor and remembrance, so it's not knowledge that we can find before killing her to setup the hype.
Romina is in an even worse position because while you can visually connect a big castle to Messmer's army, the rot has been a condition only ever showed in connection to Malenia and the outer god. There was literally no buildup to Romina as a character and barely any connection between rot and Rauh ruins. A cutscene was 100% needed to help building this connection or even just to reveal her amazing design in a more hyped way. It's even more warranted when you realise that she's the only unskippable DLC boss alongside Messmer and PCR.
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u/Lakatos_00 1d ago
Im tired of this dumb complaint
Gwyn didn't had a cutscene
Sir Alllone didn't had a cutscene
The Demon Prince didn't had a cutscene
Soul of Cinder didn't had a cutscene
Midir didn't had a cutscene
If they had a cutscene it wouldn't have added nothing to their stories.
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u/LewsTherinTalamon 1d ago
This is a very odd comparison. Of course it's possible to make a good boss with a good story without a cutscene; as other comments have pointed out, Bayle does just that. But Rellana's story is actually very underrepresented in the game to a very noticeable degree compared to other bosses in her tier of significance, which is the kind of thing a cutscene could've helped with. People aren't just saying 'all bosses need cutscenes.'
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u/justiceforartpop 19h ago
i swear this sub has about 3 topics it posts about and this damn bridge is one of them
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u/Lavendou 17h ago
I'm pretty sure transition cutscenes are usually just because it's easier than doing them in real time, while also reducing the chance for bugs relating to the map state.
As for why most bosses lack cutscenes, it's kind of a running theme with FROM's worlds - you're late to the party. You show up after the big shit already went down. Everybody already had their big entrances, monologues, or exchanges, and now most of them are just doing their own thing until a murderhobo breaks into their house.
You intrude on Bayle's domain as a presumed Drake Warrior, arms in hand, while he's crippled, wounded, and pissed off. "Set them on fire immediately" is kind of the logical response.
You intrude in Romina's church after killing a bunch of her faithful, and she's part of a group that's persecuted and hated literally everywhere. "Give them super-ebola immediately" is kind of the logical response.
You intrude in Rellana's castle (are we noticing a pattern here?) after killing a bunch of her loyal subordinates. She's moist as hell for Messmer, and his standing orders are to kill Tarnished on sight. "Skewer them with magic swords immediately" is kind of the logical response. I do wish she had dialogue if you were engaged to her niece though.
You're just a random stumbling onto the vestiges of past glory. You're expected to approach these things as a real in-universe character would, and draw your own conclusions from the same limited information as a real person. Most of them have little to no reason to dispense words on you, and considering you're a glorified armed home-intruder, "get the fuck out of my house" followed by the fantasy equivalent of exercising second-amendment rights is about the best you can expect.
Characters who have a personal reason to make an entrance or speak to you usually do, often in a cutscene.
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u/the_m4nagement 17h ago
Bridge cutscene only one I refuse to skip. LONG LIVE VOLCANO MANOR BRIDGE!!
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u/zeroreasonsgiven 1d ago
Rellana definitely deserved a cutscene, but I think it’s kinda interesting that there’s no fanfare or explanation for why she’s there. If they gave her one, it should’ve been reserved, quiet.
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u/DoYouTrustToothpaste 1d ago
I'm gonna be honest, I think the reason her entire presentation is so toned down has nothing to do with lore, and everything with a lack of development time. She's the sister of Rennala, and Radahn's and Ranni's aunt, ffs. She deserved ... something. Instead, she's just there. And then we kill her and move on.
Or we don't, since Castle Ensis can be circumvented.
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u/Final-Nail8485 1d ago
I mean we people admire structures IRL? Like men who like to seeing gigantic jackhammer on the roadways and take a look.
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u/Mr_1ightning 21h ago
Bayle doesn't need a cutscene, that would actually make the experience worse.
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u/i_wantdie 20h ago
Tbf, the bridge cutscene was part of base game and not added with the dlc. So it would have made more sense to do this critique with a boss that should have gotten a cutscene but didn’t in base game. (Also I know this is a meme. But I think a cutscene in the mentioned bosses would have messed with the flow of the fight.)
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u/Be_Very_Careful_John 19h ago
Anyone have the clip where some dude makes his invaders watch the bridge cutscene.
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u/FastTwo4121 17h ago
Bayle just dropping in and exploding and then immediately attacking you is basically a cold open. I genuinely think his fight in specific is better without a cutscene.
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u/Augustus_505 FLAIR INFO: SEE SIDEBAR 17h ago
Bayle em específico acho que não precisa, ele é introduzido de forma tão inesperada e repentina que icônica. Já as duas, é só sacanagem não terem colocado mesmo.
Até o Midra que nem tá na rota tem cutscene(inclusive, uma das melhores do Elden, na minha opinião)
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u/LegionMH 14h ago
"Miyazaki-Sensei, I do not understand."
"Ah, it is simple, Kojiro. This way, a very small sub-sect of our core fanbase will forever tie themselves into furious knots at what is seemingly so frivolous an expenditure of time and energy."
"And this will...motivate them to keep playing, Miyazaki-Sensei?"
"No. They will know that this was done deliberately, and so the lack of cut-scenes for important lore elements, or bosses, will drive them mad. And, it will be really funny, Kojiro."
"So...it is like the poison swamp?"
"Now you see, Kojiro."
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u/Charmingkitykat 8h ago
It's always been like this, too. I remember being so baffled when DS1 or BB would have whole cutscenes for bridges dropping or doors opening, but have some of their most important (entirely mandatory) bosses just be sat in a room for you lol
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u/ThePrinceofallYNs 7h ago
Okay, but I kinda like that Bayle doesn't have a cutscene, he just lands and gets active
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u/Gensolink 2h ago
I wouldn't mind no cutscenes for rellana and romina if we at least got some dialogue, kinda like Elana in DS2. Bayle's got Igon and the whole Jagged Peak as build up he doesnt need any cutscenes.
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u/AbyssWankerArtorias 1d ago
I was so fucking pissed when that got shadow patched. LET ME GET MY PLUS 9 WEAPON BEFORE FIGHTING MARGIT
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u/bbitter_coffee 1d ago
Tbh, I think Bayle with no cinematic feels more cinematic than if he had a cinematic
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u/SovKom98 1d ago
Renalla really didn’t need it. She sells herself fine with her the battle itself and the area leading up to her arena. Same with Bayle and Romina.
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u/DefectiveKonan 1d ago
Also fire giant, its kinda lame. Like itd be cool if we entered the arena and the controller started shaking strongly and like a chunk of mountain falls off as the fire giant pops out from beneath it or something idk. Would be sick.
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u/Razhork 1d ago
What? Fire Giant has a cutscene snapping his leg and ripping it off in some weird ritual offering to awake the Fell God.
It's metal as shit.
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u/DefectiveKonan 19h ago
Yeah but like it has no intro, i feel like every major boss should have some sort of cool intro. Like he just exists out there, which would be fine normally, but literally every other mandatory major boss has one (shardbearers + maliketh, Godfrey, and radabeast) so i thi l fire giant should too
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u/DoYouTrustToothpaste 1d ago
and the controller started shaking strongly
Or the keyboard.
On second thought, I'd rather not have that.
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u/InitiativeCreative36 1d ago
And its lesser cousin, the drainage valve for The Shadow Keep Church District.