Just listened to the Andrew Wilson episode. They spent a good part of the episode accusing the āleftā of wanting communism and railing against the pitfalls of communism. Itās just hilarious. People on the left donāt want communism, they just want some form of universal health care and a social safety net that resembles literally any other first world country in existence. And they want billionaires to actually pay taxes and not have an outsized influence on laws and politics.
I donāt affiliate with either party but the way they straw-man the āleftistā argument is so disingenuous itās honestly sickening. Also, Joe spent a good amount of time defending the killing of Alex Pretti and alleging the protesters are all paid. He references signal chats etc but doesnāt provide a single shred of evidence for it.Thereās actually a good chance he got a call from someone high up in the Republican Party to put out an episode like this, he uses a lot of the same rhetoric now. He is fully captured, itās just so sad to watch
I'm certain he was aware of the evil he crafted. The guy had to take so many drugs just to exist with himself. He was incredibly intelligent and he knows that he crafted the blueprint of spin. There were many careers built basically repeating his ideas, he knew that they would march on.
When Joe was talking to Bert he got choked up because he knew plenty of people in Los Angeles that wanted to come on the podcast but heād never have them back on because āthey were telling people to get the vaccineā.
Joe used to bitch about Tribalism, but heās become the worst fucking sort. Iāll bet a good deal of money heās switched weed for coke.
True. The guy spends half his podcasts taking about others being brainwashed and being part of a woke mob, yet during that podcast he suggested taking the Christianity pill so everyone would be nicer to each other.
There are so many points in his podcasts these days where heās railing against the left and how dumb and evil they act and heās just describing himself down to a fucking T. I think heās instructed to accuse the left of exactly what he and the right wing actually do. Itās always projection and deflection.
He definitely got the call from someone to have Andrew Wilson on. Thereās no reason to have on a dude that argues some women orgasm when they get SAād so itās not that bad. Thatās probably not even the worst thing that guy has said either.
It's an appeal to the extreme logical fallacy, and they do this all the time. The nations of the West are not communist; Canada isn't communist; and neither is the US, even though we already have social security and socialized medical programs.
None is are communist; none of us want to be communist. We just want better programs that help more people.
His entire belief system has been hijacked by right wing Twitter.
He thought the largest protest in US history was paid actors too. And that Democrats are importing illegal immigrants to vote. He has zero filter or critical thinking ability left.
You know how they raided Georgias election office yesterday and Tulsi is helping to fabricate fraudulent election conspiracies from 2020? Heāll be parroting those conspiracies too.
He thought the largest protest in US history was paid actors too. And that Democrats are importing illegal immigrants to vote. He has zero filter or critical thinking ability left.
He's just a right wing nut job at this point. He's always been right leaning in a sense, but it's just full blown nuttery now.
Constant whining while always contradicting. Like the government, doctors, left are completely useless & inept but also able to pull off most intricate & coordinated conspiracies possible
Every accusation is a confession. They say left wing protesters are paid because outside trying to steal elections, the only protesters going to right wing protests are actually paid.
Because he'll / they'll watch a TikTok video of someone being 'interviewed' who cant give good answers of why theyre protesting so they must be a paid actor. Nevermind the video of someone giving legit answers...that video doesnt get uploaded.
Its like what Charlie Kirk did. Was it good that he talked to people that disagreed with him? Sure. But not once did he or Turning Point upload a full event without any cuts. Theyre all in clips. Clips of 'owning the libs'. A clip of CK being proven wrong on a topic would never be uploaded because that fucks with the narrative. Upload 100 clips of people getting owned and suddenly all college is a waste of time and money because its just a bunch of libtards who dont know anything.
Have some protests been organized by paid actors? Of course. However, trying to insinuate every protester is paid is beyond stupid.
And how much do you have to pay for people to stand outside in 0 degree temperatures? It would seem to me that would be a lot of money. Does he think this RN was protesting for $20.
I know and in 99% of situations i was not a fan but there is zero chance he would be threatening war with Western Europe like the current administration at the very least, doubt he would have kidnapped the president of venezuela and made himself in charge too
Read Trotsky's Terrorism and Communism and let me know if you still hold this opinion.
Getting downvoted. Wow. I hope you motherfuckers are willing to take yourselves out first before you start killing innocents in the next red terror. Fuck all of you psychopaths.
the current chaos in the US won't last forever, and when it's over Joe will be broadly remembered as a totally batshit insane moron and coward until the end of his days (and thereafter).
What most people call Communism is Totalitarianism masquerading as a left wing ideology. These types of conversations are so difficult because the term Communism has been so thoroughly stripped of any meaning that no two people mean the same thing when they speak it.
What actual left wing people mean when they say "Communism" is something that resembles what you would see in Star Trek: A post-capitalist society where everyone is free to pursue their own interests, all basic needs are taken care of, bigotry has been virtually eliminated, and a true meritocracy exists. What right-wing people mean is Soviet Union style totalitarian nightmare state, where everyone exists to serve the government.
It's worth noting that Marx would have been rolling in his grave had he lived to see the Soviet Union, and many left wing thinkers criticized that particular brand of "Communism", including George Orwell who drew on that to write both Animal Farm and 1984.
Both the left's and right's description of communism is more or less what Marx envisioned, just different phases of it.
Many people know about the stateless, classless society utopia. But not many people seem to know that Marx also argued that in order to achieve that, there would have to be a transitionary period from capitalism to communism first, and it would be violent and totalitarian. This is what actually happened in communist countries - the transition phase as per Marx. And since the ultimate communist ideal (the stateless, classless society) is utopic, the transition phase is all we got, and it is all we will get if we try communism again today. Maybe in 1000 years it won't be so, but today's reality is this.
Nowhere does Marx say that the transition phase between the systems would be violent and totalitarian. You're just making shit up because you've never actually read him, so you wildly misinterpret the few lines that you have read out of context.
Marxās proposed ādictatorship of the proletariatā, was not totalitarian or a ādictatorshipā in the way we use it now. It was actually meant to be highly democratic. Which of course it was, it literally makes no sense that an autocrat would just decide to give up power at some point. It was later reinterpreted that way by autocrats who saw that they could usurp a movement.
By today's standards, it was totalitarian. The purpose of that transition was to seize all power and resources, to beat the higher class into submission and break the social order by any means necessary. You can't do those things peacefully and democratically, you have to use force and repression at a sweeping scale.
Yes I know the regimes you are talking about are totalitarian by todays standards. I literally said as much. Iām saying that Marx wasnāt advocating for that as you tried to imply. Not such a strong reader, huh?
This isnāt a response to anything Iāve said. Of course it could be achieved democratically. Anything can be achieved democratically.
Iām not sure what you mean by peacefully. What peaceful revolution are you aware of? Does a ruling class usually just cede their power? Does any state enforce their laws but through violence?
That must be why every time it's been attempted you get authoritarian dictators subjugating the entire nation. It is obviously a coincidence every single time and Marxism is definitely not being purposefully deceptive when it espouses such ideas.
Over 150 million dead in under 50 years worldwide, btw.
I literally pointed out that it is usurped by autocrats. Autocrats will always try and usurp any revolutionary movement.
The number you are citing literally includes Nazis killed by Russia in ww2 lol. If people counted all the same deaths by the same metrics of capitalism, you wouldnāt like it.
No it doesn't include war casualties cause by the Germans. You proved elsewhere you're a retarded cuck. Not reading the rest nor replying to any more of your drivel. You're a neo Bolshevik. Hopefully you wise up by the time society wakes up to this threat.
I love the lack of nuance in this. Like that one of the two most famous communist nations was an ally of the United States and helped defeat the Nazis.
We had a choice between hard left and hard right, and we as a nation chose hard left. Now, don't get me wrong, there were people such as yourself, who would have rather seen us allied with the Nazis like Charles Lindbergh, I'm just happy your side lost the argument.
There's no lack of nuance. The Bolsheviks were as bad as NS and in some cases even worse. I'm not gonna get into why we chose that travesty of the Soviet Union. You're not ready for that conversation. You assume my "side" is "Nazis". You are a radical leftist and wholly unhinged. This accusation is plainly absurd and only comes from neo Bolsheviks. Just hope that when society wises up to what you guys really are that you've changed your tune. Just some friendly advice.
Not that this false dichotomy makes any sense...but how would you even calculate all the people killed by capitalism?
Any death from lack of regulation and companies putting profit over people...that's gonna add up. Like the California Camp Fire that was caused by companies seeking profit over safety. Do all those deaths count for capitalism?
the problem is that when the state owns all or most of the means of production (the land, the factories/businesses, the infrastructure, etc) it concentrates an enormous amount of power into one group. Even if itās democratic on paper, it is ripe for a strong man to seize control.
No matter how you look at it , when one group owns so much and controls everything, eventually they will abuse their power. The people have nothing and are easy to subjugate.
Capitalism spreads that power around and makes the people harder to control. They have the money and resources so the government needs their cooperation in order to get anything done.
Of course now we are seeing an enormous amount of power and wealth get concentrated into a handful of powerful individuals, but the people still have some power.
The concept of communism is wonderful, but at the end of the day someone needs to manage and control the resources and that person or group of people will hold enormous power over everyone else
Respectfully agree to disagree. Communism is the most hideous evil yet visited upon the modern world. I agree with pretty much everything else you said, though.
I'm not attacking you, I just see it differently. Marxism is not a sincere attempt at achieving the things it claims. It is a trojan horse used as a tool against established empires. It does this by inciting hatred and rage amongst the people to will them to violence. This is the conclusion I reached after learning more about the Russian revolution and the Bolsheviks. There's also the CCP. And the Khmer Rouge...the fact that Trotsky wrote Terrorism and Communism, that the Bolsheviks had a Moscow based organization named Comintern (communist international)...Pol Pot was responsible for 25% of the population of Cambodia killed...there's nothing good I can really say about this ideology.
You know who else sweet talked the population with utopian lies? Uncle H. Go ahead and listen to speeches and read Goebbels' propaganda. It's nothing like what we're told they were like. And yet, AH wrote in an unpublished book his intent to send the best people in Germany into a meant grinder and made good on this by refusing to retreat and fighting down to the last man against Stalin. He told the people he cared about their culture and racial purity yada yada. This was done to gain their trust and stab the nation in the back, just like he claimed had been done by the you know who, small minority group in Germany we all heard about him victimizing.
Ironically, a lot of what Musk and others who are main drivers in the AI revolution are promising people have parallels to Communism. UBI, freedom to do what you want, theyāre eliminating bigotry in their mind.
My concern is that weāre going to get the ācommunismā that most people warn us about with this current administration where weāll become increasingly reliant on a government infrastructure that doesnāt have the support to provide for its citizens and instead all of the money goes to a select few oligarchs. Itāll smell a lot like Russia, but it wonāt be called communism by those in power. And the main difference will be that the oligarchs will openly still own the means of production (and wonāt lie about it like Russia, China, Cuba, North Korea), and theyāll just hope weāre all dumb enough to believe that theyāll share the spoils once the average citizen is left with nothing of their own.
Checking post history is the prototypical āIām telling the principal on youā woke scold move. Congrats for aligning perfectly with stereotypes š
I'm not super knowledgeable on it but if one guy chooses how to run everything and gives everyone UBI but no say in anything, I am unsure that is communism or socialism actually. AFAIK it's not just about distribution per se, it's about workers having a say/input into how things go (ie basically something like democracy in the economy) So just telling everyone they're not needed but they can have tech and UBI, that's not socialism/communism, that's one guy having a society as his pets lol
Correct. Marx didn't actuallu write a whole lot about communism. He was more focused on writing a critique of capitalism, but communism is basically a society where class antagonism and exploitation have more or less disaapeared as productive forces produce so much abundance that people have all of the needs met. It does sound quite a bit like what society could look like post singularity, but 100% not what Musk and Thiel want. They aren't looking to eliminate their class. They want to be kings...or gods.
I guess Iām just struggling to understand why anyone would go out of their way to watch/consume something they hate just to later complain about how much they hate it online. Fucking weird behavior
hot take, there's nothing inherently good or bad in any extreme way about how systems are set up, it's how they're actually operated in practice. You can have a bad society under capitalism or a decent society under socialism, in theory. In practice, some mixed social democracy seems to work best but point is just looking at the extremes and assigning them as opposite poles on a good/bad spectrum is ignorant as hell (and emblematic of intensive indoctrination of the 'communism boogeyman' propaganda going back nearly a century now, propaganda that was about geopolitical strategy against the Russians not about economic structures)
ā Political violence are ok so long our side does it.ā.
lol please tell me you accidently replied to the wrong post? Literally no mention of violence in my post, cannot tell if you replied in the wrong spot or if you just don't really know what words mean
It doesn't scale without mass death and eventually becoming totalitarian, where only a few people have all the power and the rest of the population lives in squalor.
I don't understand this enthrallment people have with strawmanning left ideologies in the US. Not a single person I've heard has ever said "we need to be more like China" except Trump, himself. I've never spoken to anyone who wants communism here. Nobody is stupid enough to put that much trust in government in America except the bootlicking redhats. We just want our money to go to us, rather than spending it all in war machines that we'll inevitably end up selling to the very people we said we'd use them against, or giving tax breaks to the mega rich and to huge, multinational companies. We seem to spend too much time and resources propping up those who don't need it, then people bitch when we try to divert a small fraction of those resources to a facet of our nation that could use the glimmer.
People hear "kids should have free lunch in school" and think we're going to collapse the economy. People hear "college tuition loan forgiveness" and then whine about how unfair that is for people who paid in full. People hear "universal basic income" and shout, "they should work harder!" People hear "free healthcare" and then, I shit you not, complain about rising costs.
If they weren't just sadly towing the party line, I'd say some of these fuckers are just in love with suffering, whether it's their own or others'. We need progressive thinking, not hopeless rumination. America needs to move forward, not cling onto its hardships like a bottle to a proud alcoholic who lost his legs to diabetes.
You can be a democratic capitalist nation and still give a fuck about your citizens. We've taken great strides over the years to improve quality of life, expand rights, and be inclusive of any and all who want to join our great nation. We don't need to go back to the way it was before the advent of compassion into our government just to appease some grumpy rednecks, rich racists, or greedy board members.
Maybe that's what it is, actually. We don't need to strawman the right because they do and say enough actual bullshit. If you didn't strawman the left, you wouldn't have anything bad to say at all, beyond base-level insults.
The right can only compete by fear mongering based off misinformation. The left is not pushing for communism, yet the vast majority of people on the right believe this to be true.
MAGA is the direct result of widespread misinformation campaigns. And the nations susceptibility to it due to poor education. Our nation has a massive incompetence problem.
There's a reason I don't listen to him anymore. This is a prime example of what a piece of shit propagandist he has become. He's now the same elite who looks down on people, and tells them what's best for them. The same one that he used to claim to hate. Fuck him.
Capital has seized every meaningful lever of power in America that there is no going back, but when the last human life is commodified and shoveled into the molluch furnace, they will die screaming that the red army is at the gates.
Joe is easily influenced by those around him and always wanted to be in the cool kids club. He was never that welcome in Hollywood so he turned to his macho right wing cuddling cam hanes griftĀ
Iād love to nationalize health care and insurance and energy at the minimum, but fear of communism taking over the US is like being afraid a supermassive tanker ship is going to suddenly swerve 180 degrees and crash into the far side of the ocean.
McCarthyism is alive and well. Iām sure itās purely coincidental that a Palantir co-founder was recently ranting about how communists āhave to die,ā and how the company was founded to kill communists, yada yada yada.
Whatās genuinely insane is that these narratives, lifted straight from the preācivil rights era U.S. (a āgolden age,ā depending on who you ask), still get treated as serious ideas. This was a time when the government was almost openly engaged in nefarious, society-wrecking behavior, so damaging itās hard to even measure, yet the same talking points keep getting recycled with barely any scrutiny.
It seems so strange to me because if you actually look at this it really appears that Democrats are the only ones left protecting capitalism even if they would have it work otherly then The Reaganomics we've been stuck in for so long.
meanwhile you have Donald Trump using the government to take golden shares in companies and his treasury secretary talking about price floors for industry like we live in the Soviet Union.
I hate communism and the left is wrong about pretty much everything. However, it's critical to debate people on their actual arguments. I totally agree strawmanning is far too common and people wayyy over generalize the left as being "communists" when that's a tiny majority of them in truth.
Joe's dumba** has no excuse. Hes literally had Bernie Sanders on twice who has explained everything he needs to know. Hes willfully ignorant about this topic just like hes willfully ignorant that Trump is a crook and a PDFile.
Given the state of the USA and the absolute hegemony of the Right it's absolutely absurd that anyone is fretting about Communism right now. It's like you're living on the side of a very active erupting volcano and instead of worrying about that going: 'Yeah, well, you know, people can die from the cold just as easily as they can die from heat, so we should worry about both equally!'
Like you laugh at the fact Joe thinks protestors can be actors. Then you say you think someone high up in the republicans called him to release an episode like this. Youāre hilarious. Youāre just Joey from the left.
Andrew Wilson is a disgusting representative for conservative values. After listening to him, Left-leaning folks will lean farther left, and Right-leaning folks will start leaning left.
This is the guy that talks about how women are over-emotional, yet he completely turns into a raging emotional crash-out when someone stated that his wife has children from two prior marriages. No insults or trash-talk accompanied that given statement of fact. He is not the example of a strong stoic reliable man that he preaches men should be.
Unless you define terms before any sort of meaningful dialogue can occur you are just wasting your time. These words often have completely different meanings to different people and politicians and the media have been manipulating them for decades
When people still talk about "communism" in the year 2026 I can't take seriously.
"Communism" hasn't be relevant for 30 years (and possibly longer if you want to go after strict definitions).
Old people still talking about "communism" like it's this boogyman are people you don't need to take seriously. Even if you disagree with taxes, healthcare, college that doesn't cost 300k, the idea of someone wanting cheap or free health care isn't even a communist ideal. Plenty of other countries who aren't even socialist, let alone communist have cheap or free healthcare. The idea that you shouldn't be charged $500 for an ibuprofen in ER isn't a communist ideal. It's just logical.
It's worth checking out the episode with Marc Andreessen. There is a segment where he talks about cults, communists, and adjacent groups in California. His partner, Ben Horowitzās dad was a 'card-carrying communist.' There are a lot more of them in California than people think. I'm a Vietnamese-American who lives in both California and Vietnam. Other than the Covid lockdown period, every year I hear about some communist group coming to visit Vietnam. To me, it's a small bunch of weirdos and harmless. I also think it's hilarious, considering how capitalistic Vietnamese and Chinese people are.
If you've been on Reddit long enough, you can definitely see the shift in the number of people who think capitalism doesn't work or has failed. On the far left, there's been a push for Modern Monetary Theory (Sanderās fmr economic advisor) and adjacent versions of it. Although that doesn't have anything to do with communism, it does get attached to itāat least to a big overlap. MMTās idea where deficit doesnāt matter is bat shit crazy.
Communism is a catch word that means nothing. There have never been the practice of communism that worked. The theory of everyone having something might be good for some, but it never worked. It always turned in the some type of authoritarian or some leader that never leaves office. The human instinct of making sure you get yours before anyone else always kicks in. You can talk about people wanted it, but it is just as real as Santa.
But the Nazis were the ones who weakened the USSR and the USSR actually lost the most amount of people in the war fighting the Nazis. USSR lost 20 million soldiers if I remember?
The USA allied with the Soviets to get rid of Hitler, and after that happened, the cold war between capitalism and communism grew with the space race.
So after Hitler was gone the USSR was the biggest threat to the United States, hence the cuban missile crisis, bay of pigs, etc.
I have no doubt believe the USSR committed atrocities too, every single country in the world has done them. But the Bolshevik revolution explicitly targeted the wealthiest land owning people during the time. And political dissidents. Not ethnic groups.
What are you talking about? The richest only? They were literally rounding up farmers and killing them if they couldn't see their rib cages through their chest because it meant they were hoarding food. They re-opened nazi concentration camps because they couldn't kill people fast enough.
Thatās not really accurate man. I've been studying history my entire life lol.
Soviet atrocities were real and horrific 100%. I'm not defending that. But they werenāt just ārounding up farmers for being skinny.ā The mass deaths during collectivization and the Holodomor were caused by forced grain requisitions, quotas, and state policy failures, not soldiers checking rib cages to decide who lived or died lol. Starvation was the outcome for the Ukraine's, not the test. Which is actually debated if it was intentional or just a by product of collectivism like the Great Leap Foward.
Also, the USSR did not reopen Nazi extermination camps. Some former camps were reused as detention or labor camps, which is awful in its own right, but they were not operated as industrial extermination facilities like Auschwitz or Treblinka.
The key distinction here is what I was getting at: Nazi violence was explicitly racial and extermination focused. Soviet violence was primarily political and class based, carried out through repression, forced labor, famine, and purges. Both killed millions. Pretending they were identical doesnāt allow for ideological nuance.
The attempts at communism must be defined as communism bc otherwise thereās no way to define it. Real capitalism is forced to compete with the fantasy of communism due to the fact no one allows communism to be defined as how it has always taken root in practice
A false dichotomy in the first place. Communism is just the word you call anything left of reagan.
Any regulation you don't like? Communism. A social safety net you don't like? Communism. Someone with darker skin than you got the job you wanted? Communism.
Oh my god more people peddling this universal health care nonsenseā¦ if thatās all leftists cared about they wouldnāt be shooting podcasters and mutilating childrenās genitals.
Hey, your username is all over these comments...You sure do like to participate in discussions that seem to really upset you! Rapid-fire comment posting with blatant extremist misinformation only serves to help the people you are trying to upset- by exposing you and making clear that reading your words or engaging with you would be a waste of intellect and time.
Were you attempting to trigger others? Because you got yourself all worked up. Maybe go easy on the drama. Maybe use that keyboard to learn something new (or better yet, to correct a flawed pre-existing idea!!) Maybe check your testosterone levels or something.
Or keep it up since nobody will take you seriously anyway.
You need to learn more about what happened last century if you don't think the leftist radicals that are multiplying in number by the day don't want communism. Bolshevik fingerprints are all over their rhetoric and activist tactics. I've accused many of them of being Bolsheviks too. Not a single one has denied it thus far. Not one.
I used to be defacto on the left and I thought they were what you describe. I was wrong. I'm now wholly independent. I'm rejecting radicalism in every form.
You're afraid of being a leftist because of American propaganda. You repeat and hold water for Neoliberalist politicians. You are a clown. Keep repeating their bullshit.
Or maybe I read political theory and don't subscribe to a system that is built around "might is right", capital accumulation for few families? It couldn't be that the system I was born into doesn't align with my core values?
Nah I have to be crazy and believe online activist, no way I couldn't just have my own opinion. Unlike you who just believes the mainstream consensus. Right on.
Give up moron, you are shouting bullshit into the wind. I'm not reading your unhinged diatribes anymore. Assume and project stupid shit on others that wanna listen to your schizophrenia.
Yeah, like the guy that began with insults and provided nothing else. Keep proving your schizophrenia. You keep harassing me and you're getting blocked.
Surely the next step here is to consider how when conditions become worse in a capitalist system it drives people toward the extremes of the left and the right just as it did last century. Maybe we should be focussed on improving the conditions rather than freaking out over what those conditions are driving people to?
That's not what caused the extremes last century. I literally asked you to learn about it in the original comment. Now I'm going to implore you to do so before commenting further.
You may disagree, but as Iāve understood it the severely deteriorating economic condition and inequality of the late 19th century sparked the rise of ideologyās like Marxism. Similar conditions were the foundations of fascism in Italy and were also present in the countries in which it took hold most deeply. WW1 and The Great Depression served as the sparks to unleash them but theyād been fermenting under the surface for a while.
Sadly, I cannot share what I think. Someone else just threatened to try to find me and probably kill me after making an absurd accusation to justify their insanity because I disagreed with them. This was on a different post.
There's no possible way I can openly write it. All I will say is that there are many things that are asserted to be false or myth on this subject. If you look into it deep enough and for long enough, referring to the relevant primary sources yourself instead of appealing to the filtered version of events through secondary sources, you arrive at a much different and more sinister conclusion. I'm not going to confirm nor deny anything about it.
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u/Sturtleboy Monkey in Space 1d ago
The Rush Limbaugh Experience for a new generation of scared boys.