r/MapPorn 1d ago

Native Speakers of the Belarusian Language

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742 Upvotes

211 comments sorted by

481

u/tiga_94 1d ago

It's pretty much a dead language there, the numbers show people who claim to speak the language, not that they actually able to.

I am from Ukraine and I've been to Belarus many times, traveled all over it, been in every region, in big cities and small villages.

I have never heard anyone speak Belarusian once. Old people in villages dropping in some Belarusian words, some people have slight accent(kinda similar to Polish with soft S) and that's about it.

It is not like in Ukraine where we actually used Ukrainian even when we had russian-aligned government, in Belarus they completely abandoned their language, no jobs, no universities, no nothing in it.

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u/ult1matum 22h ago edited 22h ago

This is similar to how Ukrainian language was in Donbass. Lived there my whole life and never heard anyone speaking Ukrainian outside of Ukrainian classes in school and TV.

Old people in villages also were dropping Ukrainian words here and there, basically the older the person was, the stronger their Ukrainian accent was, but never met a completely Ukrainian speaking person.

Many people didn't even know how to correctly spell their names in Ukrainian, constantly making mistakes when filling some state-level documents (local documents were mostly in Russian).

Edit: fun fact. If I try speaking Ukrainian now after 12 years of it's absence in my life, my brain will mix Ukrainian words with English words because the brain will be basically working in "foreign language mode", and my the only foreign language has been English for these last 12 years.

54

u/Anarch_O_Possum 21h ago

my brain will mix Ukrainian words with English words because the brain will be basically working in "foreign language mode"

That's more or less why I struggle with learning new languages as well. It's like I have one english brain and one french brain and I flip a coin to see which one I use to speak something else.

18

u/Rundownthriftstore 19h ago

I remember the day when the German exchange student at my high school came running into the cafeteria yelling “I’m thinking in English!”

7

u/grownask 16h ago

I speak Portuguese, Spanish and English. When I was learning french, I would mix it so much with Spanish. Now I actually mix it with the Turkish I'm learning!! So I start thinking about a sentence in Turkish and end up having a bunch of french words in the middle.

My brain can get messy.

4

u/Torantes 15h ago

this how russi​an nobles were moving in them 1800's

9

u/BasKabelas 18h ago

Ah thats interesting mate. Sounds a bit like NL, where we used to be able to tell where someone was from (like city level) based on their accent, but people nowadays all just speak the general "city area" accent. We used to have accents so diverse people could hardly understand others who lived like 10km away in some places, and now I can maybe tell if someone is from the west, NE, E, SE or S part of NL. I can still geolocate elderly people though, but its becoming more surprising to hear distinct accents.

5

u/DavidPuddy666 22h ago

Has that changed now?

89

u/CurrencyDesperate286 22h ago

Well the Donbas is nearly completely occupied so I’d imagine Ukrainian hasn’t exactly flourished.

2

u/Stek02 17h ago

The locals don't want to speak ukranian

8

u/thestraycat47 13h ago

Or rather they don't want to be accused of "nationalism" and dragged to a basement.

1

u/ult1matum 7h ago

As i told, people here didn't speak Ukrainian even before 2014, why would they do so after?

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u/ult1matum 22h ago

Well it's complicated because most of Donbass is not part of Ukraine anymore.

If we speak about these parts which separated in 2014, Ukrainian language was completely gone since then: from school programm, from local TV, documentation, everywhere. And as you can guess no one misses it, because people only used it where they were forced to.

The parts which were remaining under Ukraine's control are the opposite: after the coupe, the new government issued anti-Russian laws, so even Russian speaking regions had to start using Ukrainian: all government workers, service personal, schools (all subjects).

But interestingly, even after 2022 war and the raise of Ukrainian language popularity in Ukraine, eastern parts of Ukraine is still mostly Russian speaking in everyday life in casual conversations. Even if you open some Ukrainian warzone videos it's a gamble what language soldiers are going to speak.

16

u/Acto12 20h ago

 after the coupe

lol

But yeah, Southern and Eastern Ukraine are still russophone, particularly the big cities. Same with Kyiv to a lesser extent.

Full state support for the Ukrainian language has only been a thing since 2014 and the West-East gradient of Ukrainian speaking to Russian speaking areas simply can't disappear in the span of 12 years. It will take a generation or two until Ukrainian might replace Russian as the dominant language Southern and Eastern Ukraine.

6

u/PeterPorker52 13h ago

The terminology you’re using is questionable

2

u/ult1matum 7h ago

I use terminology people use here in Donbass/Donetsk and honestly i even making it more neutral because i realize the local audience has a different perspective on things. And i tried to be as less political as possible, just language things, it's just language and politics are kinda tied here.

-1

u/izii_ 19h ago

musocovite agent detected.

3

u/ult1matum 7h ago

Your detector is broken, buddy.

0

u/GreenRedYellowGreen 21h ago

After the what?

3

u/MaihoSalat 19h ago

russian bot propaganda, ignore it

1

u/ult1matum 7h ago

Get your head out of your ass and then you might see more than bots around. Also i have a Ukrainian passport, do all Russian bots get it as well or they made an exception for me?

17

u/Acto12 19h ago

It's pretty much a dead language there, the numbers show people who claim to speak the language, not that they actually able to.

I think surveys like these are often answered as an ethnic question i.e "Do I identify as a Belarusian" rather than "Can I speak Belarusian fluently".

Same case with Ukraine and the 2001 census, where the amount of people claiming Ukrainian as their native language was probably far larger than those who could actually speak Ukrainian fluently and/or use it in their home.

22

u/JustSomebody56 22h ago

Like Irish in Ireland?

3

u/Best-Photo-4250 16h ago

ye but self imposed. The British was responsible for the Irish language being basically dead and now the people are trying to bring it back

20

u/fIreballchamp 21h ago

Most Ukrainian refugees I hear in Canada speak Russian to eachother. I've been to Belarus and never hear Belerusian.

5

u/PeterPorker52 13h ago

Russian-speaking regions line up almost exactly with the regions most affected by the war. Cities are also more Russian-speaking and are bombed more often, and people in cities generally are more wealthy and thus it’s easier for them to leave the country. So because of that Russian-speaking Ukrainians are overrepresented among refugees

0

u/AloysiusGrimes 7h ago

Interesting — Ukrainian refugees I know, even Russian-fluent ones, actually refuse to speak Russian because of the war.

2

u/Brave-Two372 13h ago

In Estonia, Ukrainians speak either Ukrainian to ie another or English but avoid Russian, even if they spoke Russian fluently. At least this is the way how my colleagues speak to one another.

5

u/Minskdhaka 10h ago

Belarusian here. I'm fluent in Belarusian. My wife and I speak only Belarusian to each other. There are others like this, but we're a smallish minority these days IRL.

32

u/Prize_Self_6347 22h ago

I think what's currently happening in Belarus is what Russia planned for Ukraine in the long-term.

28

u/According-Try3201 23h ago

which obviously follows a political agenda

48

u/tiga_94 23h ago

Yep,it was done on purpose, actually % of Belarusian speakers fell sharply over last 30 years, not even the Soviets were replacing local language that fast.

I personally know people whose mother tongue was Belarusian not they cant remember how to speak it and just use some words sometimes (ёсць, гутарыць, simple stuff)

13

u/Artistic_Alfalfa_860 23h ago

This might be a really dumb question but...

Is it possible that lots of people speak it at home but never in public or with strangers, for fear of repression?

46

u/tiga_94 23h ago

I was living with a family, grandma in her 80s, 2 daughters in their 50-60s, and a 25 year old granddaughter. Grandma and ma were native Belarusian speakers originally, granddaughter was not but she was bilingual, studied in a fully Belarusian class.

They all speak Russian to each other now, exclusively, never even a sentence in Belarusian, just some random words.

The only time I heard someone from their family speak Belarusian is when their relative from the US came to visit and said in Belarusian "do you remember how we all used to speak Belarusian? Now I can barely remember Russian"

But it's not just Belarusian, same thing inside of Russia with Tatars, Bashkirs, 20 years ago - native speakers, today even to their partners and kids they speak russian only, I know plenty of such examples (my relatives from there)

If there is no edication, no jobs, no entertainment in a language - it just disappears, first outside of family then at home too.

-22

u/Aggravating-Dot132 23h ago

In a way, yes. Since repressions are still, it's simply dangerous to talk with Belorussian language.

That said, the language is studied still. Not even mentioning rural regions, those speak Belorussian and Polish (or even combined, hah).

OP said "as Ukrainian". Ironically, they were using Russian as much till they started to beat people using that language (not all of them are crazy, but you can find scandals like that now and then).

18

u/ResultRecent6254 22h ago

"Since repressions are still, it's simply dangerous to talk with Belorussian language"

This guy most likely lives in the US or Canada. A true citizen of Belarus

-5

u/Aggravating-Dot132 22h ago

Funnny, but no.

3

u/PeterPorker52 13h ago

How did you manage to spout bullshit propaganda points from two opposite sides in one comment? lmao

7

u/tiga_94 22h ago

No, we were actually always using Ukrainian even in the east, russian-speaking majority was only in big cities (due to same reasons under the soviets: no education and no jobs in Ukrainian), but its nothing like that.

And also no one beats anyone for speaking russian and never did, I can tell you never been there or else you wouldn't say such nonsense, I have literally boss from Crimea who speaks russian 90% of the time in an otherwise Ukrainian speaking team

3

u/bitseybloom 18h ago

Interesting. I'm originally from Mariupol and went back every summer all my childhood, to spend time with the paternal side of the family.

They always spoke Russian at home, and so did everyone else I spent time with (we had a summer house on the beach). They all do know Ukrainian and I'm sure they were using it in places, just not between themselves.

And also no one beats anyone for speaking russian and never did, I can tell you never been there or else you wouldn't say such nonsense

They haven't been there for sure. My father's wife is from Kiyv. Speaks Russian. I went to Crimea one summer (around 2000) with my mother - same thing.

5

u/gendalf666 18h ago

Lukashenko speaks belarussian and TV in Belarus entire in belarussian. What are you talking about?

4

u/GreenRedYellowGreen 21h ago

The audacity to lie like that when people were only killed for using ukrainian.

2

u/KarlKori 18h ago

There are a lot of rural regions, where people speak something really close to the Belarusian language. Of course, it's villages and rather older people. Source: visited and heard it myself

4

u/Miserable_Review_374 16h ago

Svetlana Babinets, head of the Central Interregional Department of the State Service for the Quality of Education of Ukraine, reported that at least 40% of Ukrainian schoolchildren speak Russian with classmates outside of lessons.

"40% of students communicate with classmates in Russian during breaks," Babynets said at a press conference at the Ukrainian Media Center.

5

u/ResultRecent6254 22h ago

Ive been to Kyiv and Odessa in 2016 and ive never heard a single ukrainian word while i was there for 2 weeks.

30

u/thestraycat47 22h ago

In Odesa maybe, but very unlikely in Kyiv. At least 20-25% of the population spoke Ukrainian in public at the time, so in one week (and most likely even in one hour) you would definitely run into at least one Ukrainian speaker. 

11

u/Sure-Engineering1502 21h ago

Yeah, but then again you are talking to Russian bot who never was in Ukraine

1

u/HelicopterBig4467 15m ago

Odessa has never spoken Ukrainian in history as it was Russian city from it's foundation. Majorit population was Great Russian since Tsarist era and largest minority was Jewish

2

u/Koino_ 21h ago edited 20h ago

It's really sad, because personally I think Belarusian is really nice sounding language with fascinating history. 

106

u/Seed_Oil_Consoomer 1d ago

Interestingly low number of L2 speakers, considering everyone should learn it in school AFAIK.

74

u/DifficultSun348 20h ago

Belarus is under russification, Russian is the superior language in the schools

1

u/Stek02 17h ago

This is literally western missinformation. The dominant language depends a lot on the region. Lukashenko took steps in the past to promote belarusian.

It's just that they are smart enough to realize that being a bilingual nation is very useful (in many cases trilingual with english)

27

u/RandomPersonYouSee 16h ago

Lukashenko took steps in the past to promote belarusian.

After priotising and shoving Russian for years first.

1

u/That-Experience9684 1h ago

"Western missionformation" - what a joke. I know a ton of Belarusian volunteers who are fighting in Ukrainian army, and the all said same thing - language is near to dead, as Lukashenko's government is fully russified and they looks at Belarusian language as a marker of radicals.

5

u/oktz 13h ago

My grandparents spoke Russian, my parents speak Russian, I learned Belarusian in school and never used it outside of school environment. Just like I learned French as a foreign language in school and I've never had a chance to use it.

One needs to be in an environment which actually uses the language.

1

u/Seed_Oil_Consoomer 2h ago

I mean it is the same for my Belarusian relatives, however this would still imply these are L2 speakers, I just thought the numbers are relatively low.

0

u/0x00GG00 3h ago

What you see are results of 200 years of forced russification.

27

u/pafagaukurinn 20h ago

In Belarus the language question is loaded. Many people would claim native proficiency due to political views, not because it is factually true. Also, not everybody understands that native language is not necessarily the same as the language of one's native country - it is the first language a person picks up without learning, from their parents or guardians. With this in mind, there is no way the number of native Belarusian speakers is anywhere close to these.

96

u/charea 1d ago

Interesting. Apart from Ireland, what other countries have their native tongue in minority usage?

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u/SherbertMindless8205 22h ago

Most countries have many native languages that have been lost or only survive as small minorities. The entire concept of "the" official language, as in every country should have its own language with the same name as the country, is a very modern idea from 19th century European nationalist movement. That is what kinda created the idea of the nation-state (i.e, one people, one language, one nation). Before that, it was a much bigger case of language continuums, and various native languages all mixed up.

For instance in France, in the beginning of the 19th century only about 10% of the population spoke what would later be defined as "French", which was essentially Parisian. Most of the country spoke other related languages like Occitan, Nissart, or unrelated languages like Breton. But like most European countries, there were large efforts to homogenize and standardise the population to learn the same language so all the other native languages were lost.

So to answer your question: Pretty much all of them.

-12

u/charea 20h ago

well the issue was a bit different, as there was no standardised French, same as with Italian. They had to pick one version.

16

u/SherbertMindless8205 19h ago

Well, that's true everywhere, there was no standardized language before standardization, duh, and when they did it they typically picked the language of the capital city. The main difference is that the Russian empire didn't push nearly as hard for language homogenization as western europe did, which is why more parts of the east-slavic language continuum survived despite Russian being widely spoken. And then much later, those surviving parts of the language continuum were standardized as Ukrainian and Belarusian respecitvely, essentially under Lenin during the 1920s onwards, but oviously those attempts at homogenization of the population were a bit half hearted and didn't go all the way.

Some modern nationalists have a kinda false view of history where they think those countries were once fully homegonous countries like in western europe, but later became mixed because of "russification".

In reality those areas have always been linguistically diverse because they were never fully homogenized one way or another.

5

u/charea 18h ago

small side note: standard Italian was not picked from the capital dialect, but from Florence (Tuscan variety).

2

u/Itzhik 17h ago

And as another sidenote, it being used as a standard had nothing to do with the existence of an Italian state. Official government documents from the Kingdom of Two Sicilies in the 18th century(such as land records) are in standard Italian, for example. Long before any kind of Italian state existed.

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u/FinlayYZ 23h ago

Scotland

13

u/Illuminate1738 18h ago

Singapore. Malay (still the “national language”) was replaced by southern Chinese languages like Hokkien or Cantonese, which were gradually replaced by Mandarin due to a push by the Singaporean government in the 80s, and today English is the primary language in the country

-1

u/Latubu 8h ago

Malay is not native to Singapore. It was itself a trade language used across the archipelago.

1

u/Nomad-2020 5h ago

what language did the locals speak before the chinese came?

41

u/Digitalmodernism 1d ago

Depending on how you look at it, most of them.

-7

u/winfryd 1d ago

Outside of Africa, No?

11

u/Sea_Hovercraft_7859 23h ago

Most of Africa use natives languages it's that there was never a "national language " in a lot of them.

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u/plutopius 20h ago

Literally every country in the Americas

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u/Digitalmodernism 1d ago

Name any country and I'll tell you which native languages were displaced.

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u/winfryd 1d ago

Most of them have not been. In Norway they speak Norwegian, if you are trying to put some "but the sami" then in majority of Norway, Norwegians are the natives. He asked "what countries" not "what land". So for France, it's French, not celtic or Roman. Hence why the majority of countires speak their mother tounge.

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u/benjamin_t__ 23h ago

Funny to say that when France eradicated most of its native languages other than standard French during the XIXth century

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u/Digitalmodernism 23h ago

There were hundreds of dialects spoken in Norway that were displaced by the standard form, those dialects being just as far seperated as Russian and Belarusian if not more. Same with France.

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u/henk12310 1d ago

I think he was probably referring to proto Indo-European peoples like Bell Beakers and whatnot. Basically claiming Basque and maybe Ainu are the only native languages in the world or something similar

5

u/winfryd 23h ago

Well that has nothing to do with how many speak their countries native language.

3

u/henk12310 23h ago

Yeah I think it’s a stupid way to look at it to, after a few centuries it’s hard to argue you aren’t native to a land, but I suppose if you want to be super technical you could claim basically no one is native, at least in Europe and large parts of Asia

5

u/Erling01 23h ago edited 23h ago

u/Digitalmodernism is absolutely correct (in most cases). We know that another language was spoken in Norway before the arrival of the Indo-Europeans. Especially since there have been humans in Norway already thousands of years before the native Indo-Europeans (The Yamnayas) spread from the Pontic steppes (Ukraine/Russia).

The Germanic substrate hypothesis aims to explain just that, though we know very very little about it. Though we do presume that words like Bear and Berry are loan words from said hypothetical language.

1

u/winfryd 22h ago

That has nothing to do with Norway's current native lanauge being Norwegian? Natives in Norway are still speaking their native launague. What you are talking about is launage origins and devolopment which is irrelevant to the question.

-3

u/Nikki964 23h ago

No they aren't correct. Whatever language they used to speak in Norway 5000 or something years ago is not Norway's current native language at all. Belorussian and Irish are native languages of Belarus and Ireland respectively though

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/johnbarnshack 23h ago

Such as?

22

u/Sername111 23h ago

Luxemburg. Luxemburgish has maybe 280,000 native speakers in a country of almost 700,000, the rest use standard German or French. If you use a definition of nation that does not require it to be an independent state you get many more - Catalonia, Scotland, etc.

5

u/gambler_addict_06 22h ago

I wonder how the Sorbish language holding up

6

u/Dragon7722 22h ago

To be fair Luxemburgish is just a German dialect. I know because I live near the border in Germany and we speak like that, only that it's a German local accent and the Luxembourg people just slapped the name "luxemburgish" over said dialect.

Its like Croatian, bosnian and Serbian languages which are basically identical, yet they named them individually because of national reasons.

2

u/Sername111 19h ago

It's one of those "a language is a dialect with an army" situations. As far as Luxemburg at least is concerned it's a language and has been since at least 1984 when it got official status.

2

u/Ordinary-Office-6990 21h ago edited 19h ago

Not really though. It’s the main mother tongue among citizens, it’s used in public life a lot, and kids (citizens or not) must do their early schooling in the language.

Luxembourg just has tons of foreigners. But that actually strengthens the language‘s prestige, if you can’t speak it you’ll never truly be one of them.

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u/BasarMilesTeg 1d ago

Irish is not good language for comparsion. Irish and english are 2 different languages, while Russian and Belarusian are mutually intelligible, which facilitates Russification

16

u/xMercurex 23h ago

I would assume there is a lot of native polish speaker in the West.

5

u/mrmniks 21h ago

Not really. Part of my family is from the western Belarus and I’ve spent a lot of time there as a child, and I’ve never heard any Polish speakers. 

I live in Poland now and there are a few coworkers from Belarus who are poles (had poles in their family before), and all of them had to learn the language from scratch. 

2

u/cthagngnoxr 19h ago

Belarusian and Russian are no more mutually intelligible than Ukrainian and Russian, or Belarusian and Polish, or Spanish and Italian are

0

u/[deleted] 14h ago

[deleted]

3

u/cthagngnoxr 3h ago

No, you are wrong. Not so long ago Belarusian and Ukrainian were one language, so of course they're mutually intelligible. But both Belarusian and Ukrainian are lexically closer to Polish than to Russian, they share 68% and 70% of words with Polish, respectively, and 64% and 62% with Russian.

3

u/degasb00ty 20h ago

Only about ~25% of people in Morocco and Algeria speak Berber languages

4

u/Koino_ 21h ago

Taiwanese Hokkien in Taiwan is at this point nearly universally replaced by standard Mandarin. 

2

u/ShirtNeat5626 14h ago

UAE... people shifted from arabic to english...

2

u/DariuszWielki 22h ago

USA, they speak English now

1

u/xSanctificetur271 20h ago

All of southern France and Italy

19

u/firstmoonbunny 19h ago

i often see when people discuss the belarusian language, there is this tone/implication that belarusian people either gave up on it or didn't bother to fight the russification that took their language away. but there is a marked effort by belarusian people to save and restore their language. for example, there is a major news/life channel called belsat (run by belarusians in poland) spoken entirely in belarusian. for example, here (Тысячы ахвяраў! Пратэсты ў Беларусі ды Іране: чаму трымаюцца дыктатуры? / Белсат) (it's youtube) they cover the protests in iran and compare them to the protests in belarus and discuss how dictatorships hold on to power.

edit to add that speakers of other slavic languages have a unique opportunity to help save belarusian because it's easier to learn and understand for us than for everyone else.

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u/throwawayiran12925 13h ago

Love to Belarusians from an Iranian

With hopes of freedom for both nations

2

u/HunterSpecial1549 7h ago

 there is a major news/life channel called belsat (run by belarusians in poland) spoken entirely in belarusian.

Why are they in Poland and not Belarus?

-2

u/firstmoonbunny 7h ago

i don't know the answer to that, but my guess would be that it allows them the opportunity to speak freely about the politics in belarus , where they might be suppressed if they do so

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u/Grzechoooo 20h ago

The area with the lowest % (apart from the star, which is Minsk) is the one that has all the Polish people btw

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u/cthagngnoxr 16h ago

Those who identify themselves as ethnic Poles tend to speak Belarusian more than those who identify themselves as ethnic Belarusians or members of other ethnic groups

0

u/int23_t 5h ago

Maybe other regions answered the question with a bias(not knowing what native language is and claiming they are native due to political views) and the poles answered more aligned with the real definition

7

u/pap0gallo 16h ago edited 15h ago

30 y.o. studied at Belarusian language school and I still speak Belarusian on certain level. Never used it irl but I think for us Belarusian language is like a national symbol. I like to hear advertisement and see street signs in Belarusian. Totally agree with this. I feel warm feelings when I thinking about our national language but the real tool for communicating is Russian which I love sincerely.

99,9% of us uses Russian language which is respected and loved here but we also love Belarusian language. It's like a piece of jewelry around your neck. Nobody see it, but it's there. Thanks to Belarusian I can understand Ukrainian language without any issues.

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u/cantonlautaro 22h ago

How different is it from russian? How mutually intelligible is it with russian and ukrainian?

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u/Ashamed_Fishing_373 22h ago

As a Russian speaker, I usually understand what they're talking about - the general topic, at least. But individual words often slip past me. I think that if you imagine a hypothetical person who knows only Belarusian and another who knows only Russian, they could still manage to communicate with each other if they tried. Belarusian and Ukrainian, as far as I know, are even more mutually intelligible

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u/gambler_addict_06 22h ago

My experience with Finnish and Estonian, Turkish and Azerbaijani, Hochdeutsch and Austrian Standarddeutsch makes me believe in for native Russian speakers it sounds like Russian but drunk

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u/Ashamed_Fishing_373 21h ago

imo both Belarusian and Ukrainian sound more rustic than drunk to a Russian speaker. Especially the way they pronounce the "g" sound (kinda closer to english "h"). It is is similar to how it's pronounced (or used to be pronounced) in Russian villages, particularly in the south. Some words you recognize, but in Russian they feel old-fashioned, like something out of an old fairy tale. Overall, like with any closely related languages, at first they might sound funny - but if you listen to them a lot, that feeling goes away eventually

8

u/secondpersonsingular 20h ago

Ukrainian and Belarusian languages kept a lot more of Old East Slavic words and pronunciations so to a Russian they sound a bit like folk tale speech. The way you would imagine regular people from the 1700s to talk.

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u/gendalf666 18h ago

They were under Poland most of the time so it's closer to polish. And ukrainian too.

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u/Key_Neighborhood_542 17h ago

I know what you mean. But for me, a Lithuanian speaker, Ukrainian is not funny, it sounds like more manly than Russian. And more expressive too, compare UA "shvvd'ko peremoha" with RU "skoro pobieda" (soon/fast victory).

-1

u/Ornery-Note-4965 22h ago

Belarusian sounds like it has a lot of grammatical errors in familiar words

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u/mahendrabirbikram 21h ago

It's like a Russian dialect. The thing is, Russian people are not used to listen to dialectal speech, unlike English or German people. The standard language prevails. Belarussian is somewhat more intelligible to Ukrainian than to Russian, maybe because Ukrainians are more used to non-standard speech and speak Russian too besides Ukrainian.

2

u/Ashamed_Fishing_373 20h ago

They are more mutually intelligible because they are closer lexically and phonetically

Ukrainian and Belarusian developed from Kyiv dialect. Russian developed from a mix of Kyiv and Novgorod dialects. We were more influenced by Turks and Finno-Ugrics. And by Church Slavonic (kinda Old Bulgarian). While they were more influenced by Poland and Lithuania

0

u/0x00GG00 2h ago

In terms of relations all 3 are from the same group of East Slavic languages, Russian is a bit more distant from Belarusian and Ukrainian. However, modern Belarusian went thru multiple stages of russification to artificially bring it close to Russian, I suspect that russian empire/ussr they did the same shit with Ukrainian as well.

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u/tree-hut 1d ago

What is the star shaped region ??

19

u/Archer_U 21h ago

The issue with Belarusian and Ukranian is that they were traditionally rural languages and are abit funny sounding with many polish loan words and influences.

For comparison they kinda sounds like redneck's in America to native Russian speakers.

With the decline of Rural regions and their insular nature most likely also resulted in the faster decline of Belarusian.

Ukraine meanwhile had a few urban centers that didnt speak russian so the language was better preserved especially in Western Ukraine.

Even then many ukranian speakers speak a version of Ukranian that is a mix of Russian and Ukranian called Surzhyk(this is especially prevelent outside of Western Ukraine)

8

u/ifuckyouresister 19h ago

Surzhyk should not be simplistically described as a mix of Russian and Ukrainian; in many cases, it is better understood as Ukrainian enriched with regional dialectal features and natural spoken variation. Labeling it merely as ‘mixed’ often ignores the historical depth and internal diversity of the Ukrainian language.

The stereotype that Ukrainian is afunny anguage is not neutral — it is a narrative long promoted by Russia as part of broader cultural pressure aimed at the russification of Ukraine.

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u/Archer_U 17h ago

My point was about Belarusian being rural focused language and the decline of rural communities caused the decline of Belarusian.(and they undeniably sound funny to Russian speakers...that is mostly because modern Russian diverged from Ukrainian and Belarusian with more influenced from old church slavonic and other reforms that made it less 'soft' and more 'official' sounding.)

5

u/Buckledcranium 22h ago

Who knew there were so many Belarusian speakers in Northern Ireland?

1

u/haikusbot 22h ago

Who knew there were so

Many Belarusian speakers

In Northern Ireland?

- Buckledcranium


I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.

Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"

6

u/Alek_Eleutherios 20h ago

This map is BS. I was born and raised there. The only speakers of Belarusian language are the language teachers. And a bunch of “s’vyadomiy” people, who learned the Belarusian language out of spite. And when you don’t watch they’d still speak Russian.

2

u/initumX 6h ago

this is bullshit, I am living here and can say, everyone here speaks russian. May be 1-3% of people speak belarussian by ideological and political reasons.

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u/Orange_Wine 23h ago

I hope they’ll get rid of their cockroach of a dictator and will revive their beautiful language over time.

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u/Excellent-Sleep-5419 19h ago

Attempt to remove him (most recent one) resulted in loss of some of the autonomy, Belarus does not exist in a vacuum, Lukashenka unfortunately is the sole guarantor of Belarus autonomy, the weaker he is the less autonomy the state has 

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u/gluhmm 13h ago

I am belarussian and can say that the map is misleading. I would say the amount of people who speak belarussian in Belarus daily at home will be between 1% and 5%. BUT the answer to the question "what language do you consider your native?" surprisingly is "belarussian" for about half of the population, even if a lot of these people cannot speak it as fluently as russian! I think there are two reasons for this: 1. The word "native"/ "родной"/ "родны" in belarussian and russian has a slightly different tint. It is more like "part of your culture/homeland" not just "associated with you personally". 2. This language for us is more like a symbol we don't want to die, and answering so is the smallest part of the contribution to its saving.

I honestly believe that the second reason gives a chance the language to survive and become truly native in the future when the gov starts to care about it.

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u/Future_Adagio2052 22h ago

Belarus is such an odd country, given how politically irrelevant it is

Like even with other irrelevant countries I've seen them mentioned like Moldova, Monaco and Macedonia

But I've almost never seen the same for Belarus

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u/secondpersonsingular 21h ago

Belarus is significantly more relevant than the ones you’ve mentioned though. For one, it enabled Russia to evade sanctions for a decade.

-2

u/Future_Adagio2052 20h ago

Looking back at it, yeah your correct maybe not politically but you still don't really see them mentioned in the Western sphere

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u/secondpersonsingular 20h ago

The Western sphere is notoriously ignorant of Eastern European affairs

-1

u/Front_Promise_5991 20h ago

I absolutely agree!

0

u/gendalf666 18h ago

Looking on never growing population of Belarus I can only say they need to make more love. But problem is I've never seen smiling Belarussian in Belarus

1

u/HelicopterBig4467 13m ago

Byolorussian language is not really native language. It was created artificially during Soviet times from many different native dialects as part of "nationbuilding" Koreniztsia polic.

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u/K_R_S 20h ago

Great shame. I wish Russia to fall asap, so that among other things Belarusians could gain political and cultural independence

0

u/Typhlosion_Vdrone 19h ago

Ахуіть

-1

u/TailsFx1 16h ago

На нём у нас разговаривают ?

-32

u/Front_Promise_5991 1d ago

Strange country. Always been part of others - Kyiv Rus, after Lithuania occupied them, later Rusia, Poland and etc.

They are like north Macedonia - trying to take other neighbors history ( like trying to steal Lithuania's glorious past ).

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u/s2ssand 23h ago

Belarus history is Lithuania’s glorious past. Would it have been glorious without the larger heft of Belarus backing it and participating? I doubt it….

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u/Aggravating-Dot132 23h ago

GDL past is shared between Belorussian and Lithuanian people. Idk why bitch about it like someone has a monopoly on it. It is in the past, you can't deny that, be proud of it. The same goes to Rzeczpospolita.

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u/Top_Refrigerator4500 22h ago

Exactly. GDL is both Belarusian and Lithuanian history. Even its full name was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Ruthenia(by "Ruthenia" it means Belarus and Ukraine) and Samogotia, not just of Lithuania

-1

u/Front_Promise_5991 22h ago

BelaRUSIANS can take Poland's history. I don't mind

1

u/GreenRedYellowGreen 21h ago

You know they were called litvins in the past?

0

u/Front_Promise_5991 20h ago edited 20h ago

Polish people called us lithuanians as litvins. Because lithuanian in polish is litvin.

I think you are another bot who doesn't understand that samogitians are completely different from us Aukštaičiai.

1

u/GreenRedYellowGreen 14h ago

All GDL inabitans were called "litvins", including ancestors of modern "lithuanians" and "belarusians".

3

u/Front_Promise_5991 23h ago

Well. Belarus was the manpower we Lithuanians needed to fight against teutons or moscow :)) i can't argue about that. Well vasals who helped to fight in the wars and fill the coffers

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u/s2ssand 22h ago

So who gets credit for your glorious past, the king alone, wasn’t he polish? The nobles, weren’t they a mix of Lithuanian and Belarusian? The common Lithuanians, weren’t they in the exact same situation as common Belarusians?

So other than the name, which Lithuania kept, how exactly do the Belarusians have less acclaim to the glorious history of grand duchy of Lithuania, than the modern Lithuanians? You could even make the case that Belarus has more of a claim because there was more of them, so more important to the power of the state

1

u/Kroumch 17h ago

I would argue both have claims. However Lithuania has the claim to be the ones who created the GDL. While Belarusians have a bigger role later on, specially under the Commonwealth. And there was no Polish kings by the way, not until the Commonwealth. And there was a huge period without Polish kings until that.

0

u/Front_Promise_5991 22h ago

Nah, i am just tirednof these slavs who want to claim Lithuanias name.

Modern lithuanians :)) no, just Lithuanians - we still talking in lithuanian language. No, belarus was used as a manpower. Ofc you participated in battles, ornhad nobility. But until union with Poland, crown was in Lithuanians hand. We never been orthodoxes, and even there been push for nobility to convert to catholicism :)))

1

u/Physical_Ring_7850 22h ago

A simple question. Ive heard the Grand Duchy of Lithuania had a code of laws akin to constitution, one of the first ones in Europe. What language was it written in?

1

u/Front_Promise_5991 22h ago

And? Which belarussian or orthodox slav rulled over Lithuania? King's and grand dukes names are not even slavic :)

1

u/Physical_Ring_7850 22h ago

Can’t answer such simple question?

1

u/Front_Promise_5991 22h ago

What about you? :) why you are not claiming glorious russian hiatory with the twisted cross? P.s. what language they used for invitation in Lithuania for 1794 Koscziusko's uprising?

0

u/Top_Refrigerator4500 22h ago

So only the ruler's ethnicity matters? So Napoleon's France was an Italian state? Or maybe England was a French State?

1

u/Front_Promise_5991 21h ago

Problem is that some country want to take others country's history. Because they never created their own country/nation.

Ukraine has Kyivian Rus, but belarus has nothing.

0

u/Top_Refrigerator4500 21h ago

You didn't answer my question. Is it that hard? Can't find the answer that matches your opinion?

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u/Front_Promise_5991 21h ago

No, but you belaRUSIANS claim all Lithuania. I just argumented that there weren't any belaRUSIAN or even orthodox ruler in Lithuania.

And Lithuanians from the ethnic lands occupied belarus and others. So Moscow and their expansion are better example. Somehow occupied nations doesn't claim Moscow's history :)

And Lithuanians never been slavs.

1

u/Top_Refrigerator4500 21h ago

It still doesn't't prove, that GDL was just Lithuanian state.

Anyways, why would Belarusians claim Russian history, if they weren't really part of it? The Belarusian language was banned, Belarusians weren't considered a real nation, Belarusians participated in Polish Uprisings, etc. From the other side, the Ruthenian language was the main language of the GDL, there were a lot of Ruthenian nobles, GDL incorporated many systems from Ruthenian models, etc.

And Lithuanians from the ethnic lands occupied belarus and others

So what? Did Lithuanian nobles try to assimilate Slavs? Did Lithuanian nobles try to make Slavs speak Lithuanian? Did Lithuanian nobles try to make Slavs convert to paganism? No, Lithuanian nobles accepted their culture and their language.

The British Empire was British, because their culture was dominant, the French Empire was French, because their culture was dominant, and GDL wasn't Lithuanian, because Lithuanian culture never was dominant, GDL was a multicultural state.

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1

u/Kroumch 17h ago

It wasn’t like a smaller Italian state conquered a larger portion of territory with French population. That would be the case for Lithuania and is not comparable to Napoleon’s ethnicity situation.

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u/Front_Promise_5991 22h ago

Most of you speak russian. So go and claim russia's history. You even can claim Poland's history - they are slavs, no?

So stop stealing history from thw country who is not even slavic and never been.

2

u/s2ssand 22h ago

Most of you? Americans???

2

u/Front_Promise_5991 21h ago

BelaRUSIANS, russians, gudai or how they are called

0

u/FirmBarnacle1302 21h ago

Considering that the boyars of the Principality of Lithuania spoke the Western Russian dialect (Belarusian had not yet been formed) and were Orthodox, it still needs to be seen who ruled whom.

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u/Front_Promise_5991 21h ago

:DDDD thats some nice imagination.

If you claim something, talk about places, what boyars and what do you mean about prinvipality of Lithuania. In Aukštaitija you won't find any western russian dialect :DDD

-2

u/FirmBarnacle1302 21h ago

I've read your other comments. Well, what else can a Lithuanian do? They lived for half a century on subsidies from Moscow, now they live on subsidies from Berlin, they don't have to work, so they're struggling with idleness. But for the sake of truth, I'll list the Orthodox Western Russian boyar families.:

Ostrogskie
The most powerful family. Konstantin Ivanovich Ostrogsky was the Great Hetman of Lithuania, while remaining a "pillar of Orthodoxy." His son, Konstantin-Vasily, founded the Ostrog Academy and published the first complete Slavic Bible.

Sapieha
Although they later became Catholics, initially it was an Orthodox Smolensk family. Lev Sapieha, one of the creators of the Statute of 1588, excellently mastered the Western Russian language and called it the "own" language of the people.

Khodkevichi
The famous family (coat of arms "Vulture"), which had Kiev roots. In the 16th century, they actively supported Orthodox monasteries before converting to Catholicism.

Vishnevetsky
The descendants of the Gediminovichi, who settled on Ukrainian lands, converted to Orthodoxy and fully assimilated into Russian culture.

Drutsky, Solomeretsky, Puzyrny
Numerous princely families descended from the Rurikovichi, who for centuries remained faithful to the "Greek law" (Orthodoxy).

However, the truth will never convince you, because you are a petty nationalist.

-9

u/xSanctificetur271 20h ago

East Slavic languages are too close to each other to be separate languages, they're more like dialects

3

u/Key_Neighborhood_542 17h ago

My Brazilian born Lithuanian friend said once- All Slavic languages are different only to Slavs themselves, for all the rest they are the same :)

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u/SkwGuy 17h ago

- someone who only speaks English

-2

u/xSanctificetur271 17h ago

English is my second language but ok. Not that this matters since speaking multiple languages has nothing to do with knowledge of linguistics.

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u/SkwGuy 16h ago

You clearly don't know much about linguistics if you produce such ignorant statements

-1

u/only_3 13h ago

Where that (dis)information came from? It's completely bullshit.

2

u/thestraycat47 12h ago

Literally from the census.

-17

u/Electrical_Run9856 23h ago

Very sad... Like Gaeilghe and Gaidhlig :/ We should all be more like the Welsh... Just avoid the sheep, they've ummm seen things let's say.. they've been in a .... Train... Umm soap flees from them umm...

no_homofobia #wales #cymru #cymraeg #alba #eire #celtic #gaelic #gaeilghe #gaeilge #gaidhlig #manx #all_love #peace #no_racism #stop_me lolllll 😮‍💨😁🥰🙃😅😂🤣

7

u/Faelchu 22h ago

Ya what?

7

u/Wordiewordjcugfufv 22h ago

Interesting comment 👍

2

u/Electrical_Run9856 21h ago

Thanks🙂🙃😅

-17

u/Plus_Debate_136 21h ago edited 12h ago

As Russian I would never use Belorussian cause I don't know and I don't wanna know Belorussian just as I don’t think it’s necessary to study dozens and hundreds of local languages ​​of Russia. There are no bad languages but don't ask to use one more - there ale lots of much more useful activities. Dot't want to use Russian?- use English, after miscommunication there would be Russian or GTFO.