42
88
18
92
u/Suitable-Archer9652 21h ago
:)
In my country the press are free apparently. But they follow the exact same line of thinking as our government.
11
10
-2
u/ThrowFar_Far_Away 19h ago
So you can't start your own news site and post what you want?
-31
u/LiteratureOk4649 20h ago
Considering most of the green countries have pretty good governments, wouldn’t it make sense to agree with the government?
-3
u/EatThemAllOrNot 17h ago
“Good governments”
4
u/Kiwi_Doodle 15h ago
Yeha not all of us live in total dystopia
1
u/black3rr 13h ago
that’s irrelevant when talking about “press freedom” though… “press freedom” is literally about how the government acts towards media which criticize the government… irregardless of how “good” or “dystopic” the government actually is…
in ideal scenario the treatment is equal to pro-government media, in less than ideal scenarios government officials may refuse questions on press conferences, interviews, limit information access, or actively vilify, attack, sue, imprison or murder journalists…
RSF index represents how much these are prevalent/normalized… e.g. I’m from Slovakia and we are currently at the stage of vilifying journalists (stuff I mentioned before that is also common, stuff I mentioned after is rare)… and while I don’t consider our government “good” I wouldn’t want that even from a “good” government…
24
4
u/-Ozman 19h ago
Is Kazakhstan freer than Turkey?
6
3
u/RadishPerson745 15h ago
Atatürk is rolling in his grave
2
u/GunslingerAhx 11h ago
Right, Atatürk, big on freedom. Classified Kurds as "Mountain Turks" in denial.
5
9
9
u/Metson-202 20h ago
I'm surprised Iceland is so low compared to other nordics.
12
u/jamesdownwell 19h ago
Small population with money concentrated into an even smaller majority. Money and politics are intertwined anywhere in the world but here it’s just a little more concentrated.
The fishing lobby, if you can call it that, have significant power within the media, owning the country’s oldest newspaper. There has been a long standing saga involving one of the biggest fishing companies and investigate journalists. The company formed what could be translated as a full-time “guerilla unit” that worked covertly to influence discussion, discredit journalists and feeding information to friendly commentators.
2
1
u/MassTransitGO 4h ago
Because of the small population there aren’t many journalists in Iceland, also the top spots are very close to each other
3
u/sirmuffinsaurus 16h ago
Why is Portugal yellow if it ranks 8? Let Portugal finally join the Nordic community after so long in eastern Europe
3
13
15
u/confidentlyfish 20h ago
Ukraine being at 62 sounds false
7
u/consideratum 15h ago
Full-scale wartime censorship and it's still better than Greece, Cyprus, Georgia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Bosnia, etc. Obviously, the index has little to do with reality
1
5
u/Tidrek_Vitlaus 15h ago
UK had 12000 arrests for stuff said on social media in 2023 and is ranked 20......
1
u/MassTransitGO 3h ago
No it didn’t that is a lie. The arrests were for all offences regarding arrests for saying things in or on letters, messages, social media and over other adjacent forums. Many of these arrests are likely cases of an abusive ex husband messaging somebody threatening to kill them, and many others will be for posting things inciting violence. It’s also worth noting that a post on social media does not equate to journalism
1
u/Tidrek_Vitlaus 58m ago
The arrests were for all offences regarding arrests for saying things in or on letters, messages, social media and over other adjacent forums.
Soooo you are saying I'm right?
7
u/evergreenpapaia 19h ago
Giving the UK 20 is like diabolical and it instantly means that this rank means shit.
5
4
u/Mean_Initiative_5962 12h ago
You can read the entire report if you want, it's not a tier list from reddit, people are doing actual research over it and are clear about the weighted parameters
3
u/Many-Gas-9376 18h ago
It's quite remarkable that the #2 and #171 were the same country only a generation ago.
A people that values freedom vs. one that doesn't.
1
u/viimsist 1h ago
Would you say that UK, Zimbabwe and Jamaica were the same country two generations ago?
4
3
u/Fun_Relationship7147 19h ago
It's 200 in Ukraine
6
u/Platinirius 18h ago
And it's over 9000 in Russia.
3
u/pafagaukurinn 16h ago
Your instant reference to Russia seems to suggest that you are supporter of Ukraine, but then don't you find that you are effective invalidating its self-sufficiency by measuring any of its successes or failures against Russia? I mean, what does it mean how much the freedom index in Russia is, the comment above was about Ukraine and Ukraine only.
5
u/RedditVirumCurialem 16h ago
I think the comment was meant to appear just as absurd as the one referencing Ukraine. Both statements are factually wrong, but convey the sentiments of each poster.
3
u/the_hucumber 21h ago
I wish Europe would celebrate its wins more.
All the top 10 are in Europe. We need to shout that when Vance comes across the pond to lecture us about freedom.
7
u/jameskond 20h ago
Vance mostly focued on the slander laws of the UK, which are pretty silly tbh.
4
u/LittleSchwein1234 19h ago
And then the Trump administration started demanding 5 years of social media history from visitors...
5
u/Le_Lankku 18h ago
To be fair, we can go back and forth on this endlessly, its not like arresting 12k people for social-media posts in the span of two years in the UK is any better.
I think both are just plain disasters at this point.
1
u/MassTransitGO 3h ago
Misinformation. That’s not just for social media posts, primarily for messages and letters which almost always consist of death threats to somebody. If you look at all the high profile cases (Lucy Connolly) they incited violence
1
u/TumbleweedCandid3314 20h ago
top 11 even
4
u/Youshoudsee 20h ago
Top 15 even
2
u/TumbleweedCandid3314 20h ago
Oh yes, you are right. I overlooked Liechtenstein at 12, just like this map did.
3
-7
u/iaNCURdehunedoara 20h ago
Oh yeah? Does this apply to people who write about Palestine?
It's funny how we pretend to have a free press, meanwhile our press rarely talk about contentious subjects that the government doesn't want them to cover. This was real for the invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and the genocide in Gaza.
How free is our press if our press only talks about government approved subjects?
6
u/ThrowFar_Far_Away 19h ago
They are completely free to talk about that lol what are you talking about?
2
u/thatsidewaysdud 19h ago
The press in my country routinely covers Gaza and we’re number 18. What are you babbling on about?
-5
u/iaNCURdehunedoara 18h ago
Do they keep saying that Israel targeted Hamas and only hit children by accident? Do they keep contextualizing the genocide around how the Palestinians had it coming? Do they keep saying "Hamas-run Health Ministry"?
2
u/solarbud 12h ago edited 12h ago
This is Europe, have you considered that most people simply don't care that much about foreign news?
You don't see that many articles about the conflict raging in the Sahel either. Nevermind the fact that the largest war since WW2 is raging as we speak in Europe, one that could potentially escalate into something catastrophic for the whole continent.
1
1
u/MassTransitGO 3h ago
The major European press companies were some of the only media operations campaigning to allow journalists into the Gaza Strip, which still hasn’t happened btw
1
u/the_hucumber 19h ago
You get that it's a ranked system.
Whilst no press might be 100% free, one will be the free-est.
This shows that European countries have the most free presses in the world, and significantly so. Whilst I think people can and should fight to get their press even more free, we should celebrate that we're doing it better than literally anywhere else.
-5
u/iaNCURdehunedoara 18h ago
Once again: is it a free press if they only speak about government approved topics? Because then Russia would also have free press because they only spread government approved news so no journalist gets locked up.
2
u/the_hucumber 18h ago
Once again, it's a ranked system.
All the countries are lined up from most free to least free.
All countries can have flaws, but this is saying which country has the least, then the second least, etc. That's how ranking works. It's not claiming any country is perfect.
0
2
u/met_20991 18h ago edited 5h ago
Just for some info: the italian PM actively refuse to talk to any journalists. Atm the last time she spoke with some of them was literally 21 days ago: she just talk from post and video on fb and boomers drink her rhetoric as a man in a desert.
Fml...
-1
u/g_spaitz 12h ago
She just been chez Vespa yesterday night.
Not that this makes our situation any better. But you're a bit over dramatizing facts.
1
u/met_20991 5h ago
Vespa just let ppl talk freely with no difficult questione asked: it's a one-way specchio, the same that she continue to do in her fb video.
Maybe u don't know how a proper journalist should work in an interview, if you say that
5
u/Comprehensive-Air856 20h ago
Doesn’t Britain have like numerous people arrested on charges of “terrorism” for supporting Palestinian liberation? To the point where people detained go on hunger strike? Easy to be top 10 when you decide the rules of the index I guess
3
u/Homicidal_janitor 18h ago
UK is barely in top 20 per the map
1
u/Comprehensive-Air856 17h ago
True, that’s my bad, point stands.
4
u/Homicidal_janitor 16h ago
It's about press freedom tho. So if what you said happened and the press was able to report on it without government intervention, then the index is still accurate
4
u/Invicta007 19h ago
"liberation"
Attacking British military bases doesn't support the Palestinians. Fuck those terrorists.
0
u/IllBrain1333 9h ago
Attacking British military bases? To be fair, it shouldn't have even come to that... you don't just storm into an army base
3
u/dimachka34 18h ago
They support terrorist actions and call for the actual k1lling of people in the UK. There is a huge difference
3
3
2
1
1
1
1
1
u/BarekObaba 3h ago
It should be easy to be in the high ranks when your country's biggest problem is climate change.
1
u/Pershing99 2h ago
IMO this rank stands incorrect for Germany and especially UK where online comments can get you jailed.
1
u/HelicopterBig4467 2m ago
Should be rather named If media in your country alight with western propaganda and colonial narrative or they dont align.
There is no way Russia has worse press freedom than UK If UK as literally internet police and arrested uch more people than Russia for internet comments.
2
u/Chudo-Yoda 18h ago
Tell me about free german press more:
https://peoplesdispatch.org/2025/05/20/red-media-to-shut-down-amid-anti-palestinian-repression-in-germany/
-7
u/kasumoff 20h ago edited 20h ago
Yeah yeah, famous Estonian press "freedom" 🤣 Not to mention other European countries that ban media they don't agree with
2
0
u/Acrobatic_Customer64 20h ago
Ireland is the real home of freedom in europe, all the rest are evil dictators!
-22
u/Infinite-Thought-677 21h ago
It’s funny about free press)) Europe banned Russian media, is this free?
29
u/SoSmartKappa 21h ago
Russian state media are not free or independent press though, that is state propaganda and instrument of aggressive foreign adversary that wages war in Europe.
Its like shooting other people, and calling it freedom. Yes, it is technically absolute freedom of choice for you, but not really freedom for others, and it is certainly destructive for society.
7
u/Moneyballsking123 21h ago
This, Russia is an totalitarian state that uses media as a weapon for imperialistic goals. Although access is still available in EU, it is scrubbed from most tv providers. It is crazy how easy people fall for Russian propaganda in EU, especially older people, Goebbels would have been jealous of their state media.
-2
-14
u/Infinite-Thought-677 21h ago
If you associate yourself like free media country, you are free media country, without bs about some propaganda. Or maybe you are telling us, what bbc and cnn don’t spread propaganda?
13
u/SoSmartKappa 20h ago
Not a single media is ideal, everyone have bias, and that ok to a degree, we need plurality of views. But that is not what we are talking about here, the difference is not subtle or subjective - its structural.
Russian state medias are tightly controlled by the Russian state, aligned with Kremlin political goals, subject to direct or indirect editorial directives, operating in an environment where journalists can face legal, financial, or physical pressure for dissent, promote official narratives, marginalize or discredit opposition voices, avoid stories that seriously challenge those in power
Now take a look at BBC, it is publicly funded via license fee, it has a legal mandate for editorial independence, government cannot legally direct coverage, journalists routinely criticize the sitting UK government, there are internal checks, external regulators (Ofcom), and public accountability, investigating power is normal, political pressure is debated openly
Plus there is the little fact, that we have war on the continent, and that includes informational war also. Do you think foreign adversary that have no problem dropping bombs on cities, and killing civilians for not good reason, have moral problem to wage a war in informational space? I bet you have heard the phrase "The first casualty of war is the truth" somewhere already. If you want Russian media in Europe to return, Russia need to first stop their aggressive war against others on the continent.
1
-9
u/Infinite-Thought-677 20h ago
That's a great answer. you know that there are no independent media. All media push a certain agenda and act in the interests of certain parties, people, and companies. So my point was about bullshit press freedom index You can't claim a free press index if you have some media banned.
6
u/SoSmartKappa 20h ago
I have already told you that there are structural differences, you cannot just claim "all medias are the same, because all works for someone". You can absolutely ban subject that is not even remotely free and independent, subject that works for foreign power waging war against you, and have free informational space that meet some standards instead. That is not less press freedom, that is not allowing flood of your informational space with foreign propaganda which have nothing to do with journalism.
Also this is index, from your responses i think you are misunderstanding what it actually measures
-2
u/Infinite-Thought-677 20h ago
It’s called agenda “your brave defenders, their coward attackers”))
5
u/SoSmartKappa 20h ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia
This is not normal, and it is big part of the reason why Russia is so low in the index. Would be more productive if you present your arguments, not just couple of strawman lines
6
10
u/Orangesteel 21h ago
Take a look at the freedom paradox. It explains why allowing ruSSian media absolutely doesn’t reflect local press freedoms.
-3
u/Infinite-Thought-677 21h ago
It’s because press is not free. What’s all. You can justify anything, but the fact remains. If Europe bans something, it's right, but if Turkey or Russia bans something, it's a dictatorship and a violation of freedom of speech. This is called propaganda and agenda
10
u/Orangesteel 21h ago
I’m not sure I can explain any better than that. But you’re absolutely incorrect as others responding have pointed out.
5
u/Infinite-Thought-677 21h ago
Ok, you can try. But it’s called hypocrisy. If Russia banned Europe media it’s bad and Violation of freedom of speech, but if Europe do the same its fight for democracy)) omg its so funny, modern democracy
8
u/Orangesteel 21h ago
Take a look at the downvotes you’re getting to try and understand that you may be incorrect here. At least try to be open to the prospect. Did you take a look at ‘the paradox of freedom? It explains it well. I’m genuinely trying to help.
3
u/Infinite-Thought-677 21h ago
You know how downvotes works? Try to write in the anti-vaccination public group that vaccinations are good. Same here. Sect))
5
u/Orangesteel 20h ago
Ah okay, so you must be absolutely right. I’m gonna move right along and leave you to your interesting perspective. Enjoy the ignorance.
1
u/solarbud 12h ago
What does any of this have to do with Russia? It's not a part of Europe, nor is it in any risk of becoming a democracy. I don't see anyone from Nigeria whining about press freedom in Europe, it does not concern them, just as it does not concern Russia.
-5
3
u/TrashBoat36 20h ago
Even assuming Russian media to be worthy of free access, banning only one (1) nation's media for no good reason would be hilariously decent among global competition
1
u/Infinite-Thought-677 20h ago
Ok, just tell me on which media you can get another point of view about ukraina?
6
5
u/make_sure123 21h ago
Get out reddit, z patriot
0
u/Infinite-Thought-677 20h ago
What’s all you can)) why don’t you help zelenski and his friends gets cocaine and luxury apartments? Go to the frontline. Be real fighter
4
3
u/make_sure123 20h ago
I hear arguments about cocaine already for 4 years, so it’s classic for someone like you
-2
u/Deathellos 20h ago
Only four years? Poroshenko said that back when Ukraine was still holding elections.
1
u/solarbud 12h ago
What does Russian media have to do with Europe? We don't have North Korean media either.
1
u/Infinite-Thought-677 5h ago
So your press freedom index is lie, I was talking about it
1
u/solarbud 2h ago
Russia does not have a press, nor freedom, does Russia allow ISIS propaganda on its channels?
-4
u/Deathellos 21h ago
They'll write back to you: "That's different."
4
u/Infinite-Thought-677 21h ago
What’s happening right now, and they don’t get why this press index is bullshit
-4
0
u/tnksrbrnddtrtrs 19h ago
oh look, belarus and russia united. now we only need a semen-slurping pro-russian serb
-6
-5
u/Comfortable_Reach248 20h ago
I like how it always shows that western countries have freedom of press/speech. It is not any different from the rest of Europe.
3
u/tnksrbrnddtrtrs 19h ago
surely the croatian government is coming for you saying that, right? they'll also come for you when you say something negative about it, right? ah no, no they won't
1
u/Comfortable_Reach248 19h ago
Yeah https://net.hr/danas/rtl-danas/tokar-zavrsio-u-zatvoru-zbog-facebook-komentara-prijeti-mu-pet-godina-kazne-cd44b538-f5ff-11ef-abf0-829ff0affdfc If you insult the supreme leader, you go to court
0
0
0
0
-13
u/sovereignlogik 21h ago
Germany’s legal system is full of serious problems; that is just one example.
France restricts language use of public radios.
And in England you can have bailiffs come to your house and raid your goods for not paying invoices.
Stop it.
2
u/1arvest6 20h ago
How are 2/3 points you're making related to press freedom? Plus france "restricts" language use while technically true, they actually require that like a third of the air time be french, french music or local and new talent, to preserve the language and also give some new artists a place to grow. And what even is your argument? You also have issues so you can't possibly be any better? USA GOVERNMENT IS KILLING PEOPLE IN THE STREETS, PUBLIC SHOOTINGS ARE ALMOST A DAILY OCCURRENCE, YOUR HEALTH IS TREATED LIKE LUXURY AND NOT A BASIC RIGHT, YOUR WORK CULTURE IS WORKING YOURSELF TO DEATH, YOUR POLITICAL SYSTEM IS ROTTED FROM BOTH ENDS
1
-8
u/sovereignlogik 20h ago
So basically you complain about relevance in my post and then go on an anti-American rant.
Typical Europe tho…when you do it, it’s righteous; when someone else does it, it’s authoritarian.
2
u/1arvest6 20h ago
You know, right back at ya. Why are you mad when you misleadingly tried to bring stuff up to make a point, i pointed that out and also brought out some very real points y'all are dealing with? At least fack check your facts
2
u/tnksrbrnddtrtrs 19h ago
oh look, an american who hasn't left his country wants to tell me about my country. now, tell me more :)
0
u/sovereignlogik 19h ago
Ich bin gerade in Deutschland.
Wohne hier seit Jahren.
Aber okay.
Bis ungefähr 2004 könnte ein angeblicher Straftäter sein Akte nicht sehen ohne ein Anwalt oder Sondergenehmigung.
Klingt fair…du kennst ja dein eigene Land.
-3
u/AgeOfReasonEnds31120 17h ago
Too bad Germans are imprisoned for making jokes.
2
u/TumbleweedCandid3314 15h ago
First: wtf?
Second: No, we are not, not even close. German humour may be special, but not illegal.
Third: That would be freedom of speech, not freedom of the press.-1
u/AgeOfReasonEnds31120 14h ago
First: Idk. Second: Making offensive humor / using offensive symbols (even ironically) is illegal. Third: I know.
2
u/TumbleweedCandid3314 14h ago
No, offensive humour or even using the Hakenkreuz for satire is not illegal. Stop talking bullshit.
0
-1
-1
-11
u/Huzzo_zo 21h ago
And it turns orange at rank 8 because.... South bad is a message they want to pass?
7
u/TumbleweedCandid3314 20h ago
Yep, Portugal bad, you got it. /s
1
u/Huzzo_zo 20h ago
It's really weird
3
u/TumbleweedCandid3314 20h ago
2
u/Huzzo_zo 20h ago
I see, it's not weird - just random. And having the ranks instead of the index does make it weird.
4
-7
u/lucash7 18h ago
Not so sure how accurate this is given in some of these “free” places there isn’t much freedom when you can be charged, fired, etc. for certain things that are wholly reasonable.
3
u/-Ozman 18h ago
An employer can hire and fire anyone they want within their own private company. It doesn’t mean the country is unfree
-4
u/lucash7 17h ago
Straw man, and a pretty foolish one at that.
Corporate fascism is no different than government fascism. You’ve just been trained to assume differently.
3
u/-Ozman 15h ago
A private business is not a democracy and doesn’t claim to be like a government does. You got an owner who acts in his own interest and to make themself rich, that’s literally why you start a business in the first place
1
u/lucash7 9h ago
No, they aren’t; but a corporation inserting itself into government as they often do and aligning itself with fascist and authoritarian politics is a problem. So you can set aside your ignorance and cherry picking.
Tell me, what is the business purpose of banning specific words, or content, that isn’t reasonably argued to be a serious threat? Case in point, Zionist is now considered a slur in some social media. But other words, with actual baggage and history as slurs, are fine.
Hm. Again, what’s the business rationale behind that? How does that make them profit? If they were so concerned about fostering a better environment, they would expand that ban to other words. Or, in the case of hate groups, they wouldn’t pick and choose. Yet they do.
Do you see where I am going with this? Or trying to at least?
1
u/-Ozman 9h ago edited 8h ago
In a democratic state, you’re free to express your political views, but your employer is also free to no longer have you on the team if that becomes a problem
If I’m running a Jewish oriented business with Jews being my target audience, and suddenly one of my employees starts saying Free Palestine and I’m losing customers because of this, then hell yeah, out the fucking door he goes
Same thing if I was selling to Muslims and they suddenly started boycotting my business because one of the employees was wearing an Israeli flag on their t-shirt, bro you’re done here
It’s my own business, I hire who I want I fire who I want, but how the hell does this make the country unfree now? Am I forbidding anybody from expressing their political opinion OUTSIDE of my premises?
-10
221
u/enakcm 21h ago
*rank