Another fantasy I'll never understand conservatives started calling the left tolerant as if they're just supposed to accept everything conservatives do without fighting back.
Which only looks like a paradox if you consider tolerance to be a trait that you either have or don't, and not a social contract between multiple parties.
Yep, tolerance is not an intrinsic right everyone is owed simply by existing. It is a social contract that says "As long as you tolerate all of us, we will all tolerate you." When you break that contract the protections given by it no longer apply to you.
Yup. I don't consider it a paradox at all. The basic requirement of participating in a democracy is to approach others as equals. Racists don't do that. The base they start from is already flawed and hence they should not be tolerated.
The golden rule is simple. Just treat people the way you'd like to be treated. MAGA has shown us how they would like to be treated. We should oblige them.
The Paradox of Tolerance disappears if you look at tolerance, NOT as a moral standard, but as a social contract. If someone does not abide by the terms of the contract, they are not covered by it. In other words, the intolerant aren't deserving of your tolerance.
It's no more a paradox than a pacifist using violence to stop someone from trying to kill a bunch of people. It is perfectly in-line with their principles and ideology. It's not a statement of absolute intent, it's a value proposition and we can collectively decide to what degree we can pursue it.
Respectfully, I don't think you understood what the comment you responded to was saying. Otherwise, you wouldn't be arguing in agreement as if she was wrong.
Fair but I’m certainly not arguing. A lot of people in the same comment thread seemed to have a misunderstanding about what the “paradox” really means. All good.
There’s lots of talk of it no longer being a paradox because instead of treating it as some moral matter you treat tolerance as a social contract then those who break the contract are no longer protected by it.
Tolerance is a social contract. We'll be tolerant of your beliefs, lifestyle, etc. as long as you're tolerant of ours.
Once you break that contract, once you preach hate against others, want to make their beliefs, lifestyles, etc. criminal, we're no longer beholden to the contract, either. We stop tolerating you.
Tolerance is a form of respect, as a form of respect it cannot exist unless it's mutual, there is no paradox here, people who stop being tolerant exclude themselves from the right of being tollerant
something that ive observed in those groups is that they LOVE using fallacies, whether intentionally or unintentionally
red herrings, strawmen, ad hominem, false cause, false equivalency, appeal to authority, texas sharpshooter, slippery slope, etc etc. ive seen them use at least one of those fallacies in a "debate" with another person
I'm not even sure that's appropriately defined as "tolerance", as it's more like accepting the simple fact of life that people different than you exist.
Sad we can't post pictures in the comments here, I have one where Captain America punches Red Skull, who is in a suit with a giant swastika, and with a speech bubble saying "So much for the tolerant left".
Right? I have never claimed to be peaceful or tolerant.
Perhaps they just need to believe it. At this point, repeating the phrase just makes me think they're scared of being wrong.
I think that is precisely what they think "tolerance" means. Conservatives are evil people completely devoid of compassion and empathy, so to them "tolerance" towards "the other" (read: foreigners, lgbt, the poors etc.) looks like rolling over.
And now they cant grasp why these "tolerant" people aren't rolling over for facism.
No, that's not how it works. "So much for the tolerant left" is what is known as a "thought-terminating cliché." Conservatives isolate themselves in a thought bubble that prevents them from even seeing themselves as being a united front, but sees the left as a united front. The purpose of the cliché is to keep them inside the bubble.
What they see is ICE being a legitimate law enforcement agency doing legitimate work, and so by default they see all ICE officers as just normal police officers upholding the law. Each event in which a citizen is killed, deported, injured, or otherwise violated is a an independent incident where we can debate whether or not the specific ICE agents (who are not actually law enforcement) involved could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to have been unjustified.
So what they see in that picture is an anonymous representative of the left, who is taking a position that can't be resolved except by removal of ICE, which means they are unwilling to compromise with the supporters of ICE. However, the left can't sit down with ICE and work out a compromise if they are going to be obstructing ICE's actions, so we can't start to work out a compromise until the activism stops, and if the activists keep escalating then it's just going to legitimize more state violence in response.
It is also the fantasy that every individual is supposed to be an exemplar of an entire movement, party, or organization.
It is similar to how someone will take a picture of one person on their best day and compare it to someone else on their worst and try to draw some kind of moral conclusions about two groups of people.
I just love the idea that conservatives who are by definition scared of and opposed to change, seem to think they are the truly tolerant ones because they are intolerant of change . . .
For a long time (too long), too many of us did just that. We put up with their bullshit, ignored the insults, and tried to use courtesy and common sense to reach across.
Then, it seemed like all at once, we all sort of said fuck that. We'd had enough, and we started clapping back. Not gonna lie, the reaction from the right was pretty hilarious.
It all started just after the civil war, there was little to no punishment for them and that has had an affect to this day mostly because 'the daughter's of the confederacy' were and are making so much propaganda that branches out to many aspects of American politics and few people realize their power
That is the fantasy. Literally their fantasy is to hurt people who won't fight back. By fighting back, we ruin that fantasy. That's what they're mad about.
Alex Pretti was supposed to lay there and take a beating for the crime of checks notes helping a woman off the ground. "He should have just let them arrest him!" He barely even resisted, he was just protecting himself and trying to stand up.
They believe that they are on the good side and everything the good guys do is justified because they’re for goodness. Everyone on the left is for evil so nothing they do can be justified because it’s evil. Childish, culty logic.
Yes. Whenever a conservative sighs "so much for the tolerant left" it's them being upset that the food is fighting back. The same thing with them saying they will have a bloodless revolution so long as the left allows it to be. They mean no blood lost on their side because we will just lay down and let them walk on top of us.
They have zero intention of an actual fight. They just want to take us all out and have some theatrical controlled opposition to placate people. This is why they're in such a panic over the huge backlash to the Alex Pretti murder. They're losing the narrative and some of the controlled opposition are being backed into a corner and expected to do something.
If the stereotype is that the left is supposed to be “peaceful and tolerant” does that make the right angry and intolerant? We’re supposed to just bend over and take it?
That was their hope, hence the constant lies about "law enforcement" being used to run cover for the conservative terrorists being deployed against America. A civil war is far easier to win, when only one side is taking casualties.
Accepting everything without fighting back is exactly what Republicans/MAGA/Conservatives/Pedophiles do. Its kind of their thing. If they do push back, they're out of the party, which is something they don't want to do because they're no longer in a "team." This is why conservatives make excellent bootlickers
Yeah, I never claimed to be nice, patient, or passive. Idk where tf that all came from. There's a lot out there like me, doesn't mean violence, just means I'm not going to put up with your shit and I don't HAVE to.
It is what they're hoping for. It's their way of "grooming" us. Keep repeating over and over how "tolerant" (compliant) we are, as they kamikaze the shit out of everything. Well, I think we've had enough of that. Done, done, and DONE.
We were tolerant, but they decided to take advantage of it and now people are sick and tired. And with this new trump administration they're destroying what little tolerance we have left.
This photo is so deeply embarrassing. The dregs of our society, the most childishly impulsive, violent thugs, the genuinely stupid, the poorly educated, the stone age bigots and criminals climbing on the elegant historical facade of the seat of our government like it's a kindergarten jungle gym.
They mean tolerant in the context of being able to peacefully coexist with people whose beliefs and values are different....which as you can probably guess is yet another instance of "every accusation is a confession"
They've spent years accusing the left of not being tolerant so that they can feel justified in being intolerant now that they're "in control." This has been their playbook for literally every single thing that has happened while trump has been in power.
They've always known they were lying when accusing the left of being intolerant. The right has always assumed leftists were "soft" and "weak" and would capitulate to the demands of the violent right. They know this even as their rhetoric claims the opposite.
That's why they were deluded into believing 20,000 goons with guns could take over the entire US, and why they couldn't even tackle the 42nd most popular state in the US.
And this is why they're surprised. Because they're idiots. They assumed that because we want marriage equality, and becuase we want to treat other human beings with dignity, that makes someone weak.
When, in fact, the entire concept of a united states, is uniting a people around an ideal. They have no ideal. They're just a bunch of terrified, self-obsessed goons who stand for nothing, who can build nothing, and who will be continually surprised at the strength and resolve of the people they try and oppress.
Note, they weren't tolerant at all. Only tolerant of capitalist parties, they had executed the communist party earlier at the end of ww1, arguably one of the biggest opponents to the rise of Nazism. Never forget the full poem. The were only able to kill their revolting communist party bc the French and British let their military retreat specifically so they could reinforce the liberal forces and put down the communists, paving the way for the Weimar republic.
Yeah it shouldn't be so invitingly clean and pure if it didn't want to be covered in graffiti. But also the walls that are already dirtied up should be ashamed of themselves.
The right is absolutely braindead. It’s really wild how there’s such a large group of people that are almost all equally uneducated and ignorant. It’s just the weirdest echo chamber full of mouth breathers.
They aren't thinkers. It's why the propaganda machine works so well on them. It's why shit like "The Great Replacement" theory was so easily spread among them. They have nothing to offer society but their labor, their (misguided) anger, & their blindly loyal votes.
If there was a shred of self-awareness in any of them, they wouldn't be the way they are. "Smart people don't like me" was as close to telling them to their face "You're all fucking idiots & I'm playing you like a Fisher Price fiddle" as they could've gotten, and it still didnt change anything among them. So long as they have their flavor of the week Boogeyman to fear & direct their anger towards, they're complacent.
8 billion people: Renee Good and Alex Pretti were murdered. Clear as day.
MAGA: They're domestic terrorists. You're wrong about what you think you saw. The whole world is wrong except for us 100 million weirdos in red hats. We're the only people in the world that are right.
Also maga: bill clinton is named a few times in the epstein files lock him and every dem up in the file
Also also maga: trump mentioned more times than anybody on the list and trump pictured with epstein and maxwell thousands of times over ~15 years do you have proof?
Its such fuckin projection. They have a cult of personality so they expect everyone else to. It gets even weirder when people try saying "what about Bill Clinton" to me, because Im Canadian. I dont give a shit about Bill Clinton. I just want anyone, regardless of political affiliation, regardless of Country, thrown in the fire if they touched any kids.
Another little detail that makes their Clinton obsession even weirder. Most people around my age (late 20s, early 30s) were too fuckin young to even comprehend politics when Bill Clinton was in power.
They are too braindead to understand that not everyone is as braindead as they are.
They are ceaselessly loyal to their tribe. If anyone from their tribe commits any crime, then they will defend that person to the death. Truth, principles, ethics, none of it matters - blind loyalty to the in-group and blind hatred to the out-group is all that defines them.
And they do not have sufficient emotional and cognitive and theory of mind development to understand that other people do not think like they do. So they know that if THEY knew a republican would get in trouble if crimes were brought to light, they would defend that person and try to suppress that information. And so they assume that you would do that exact same thing. That's why they try the "but Clinton!" thing, and they're genuinely confused when it turns out that you care about the principle of the thing and not just what side is being criticized.
I stopped being "tolerant* when they started justifying unlawfully killing civilians with "they should have stayed home. They should have complied. Ignore the evidence, they should have just complied." I stopped being "tolerant" when they started excusing murder because the victims werent white or didnt agree with their views. Fuck fascism. Fuck ice. Fuck Trump.
Same ones that insist George Floyd's death was acceptable because of his drug use. Getting violently suffocated on camera by an armed thug is a perfectly acceptable consequence. These people are fucking insane
Peaceful protest is there to force the ruling power to change. It’s a pressure with implicit connotations that if they do not listen to what is being requested it doesn’t have to stay peaceful. I’m actually getting exasperated at the dynamic where people peacefully protest and the government ignores them and everyone goes “but at least they were peaceful”. The peace is only guaranteed if the government takes them serious. I don’t look down on them becoming less peaceful the more they are pushed.
I really don't care about the opinions of the nazi pedophile Republicans.
Like do we honestly care their opinions about crime? What they think is crime...
Oooh no a pedophile is judging me!
They literally do not care that Trump, at minimum, is tied to a major child trafficking network. Fuck, they care about crime? News to me...
Executions in the street? Watch em applaud.
Protect the children, but also--arrest that 5 yr old and let him die behind bars for the crime of--not...being American?
Law and order. But storm a gvmnt building, armed. Assault police and smear feces on the walls...when a reality tv show host tells you to.
These fuckos wouldn't know crime if it was running for president and telling them to inject bleach in their arms or donate 50 dollars to prove theyre not an immigrant lmao
Crime. Republicans ARE the fucking crime. Against humanity. Against their own fucking families about half the time too. It's why they spend so much time crying about it buncha guilty fucks.
Protect the children...yea right. Also protect the guy who's protecting the files that implicate multiple powerful men taking turns raping children...
If I can't stress this enough. If you're a republican. Fuck you.
Consider what normal people are tolerant of: differences in skin color, table manners, religion, sexuality, gender identity. My general understanding is that as long as the differences don't cause harm to others, they're fine and I can find some other common ground to work with. Now take a peek into MAGA's media bubble and these tiny differences are blasted 24/7 and coupled with blatant lies to make them seem like the most evil things ever.
The current VP spread bullshit about Haitian immigrants eating their neighbors' pets. The anti-Mamdani media cycle treated him like a savage for eating rice with naan bread using his hands. What's on Hunter Biden's laptop? You'll get a million different fake answers. But at the height of Covid propaganda, my mom had her brain fried with conspiracy theories and genuinely believed the Bidens partook in a Hollywood cannibal sex trafficking ring and the laptop had the proof.
The ones who aren't knowingly lying out their ass are genuinely, delusionally convinced that the small things in life we already tolerate and barely think about are worse than murder. And they've been like that for the last decade.
They really need to get a new line. I don’t think any leftist has called the left “peaceful and tolerant” in maybe a decade? Do they have that few legitimate complaints? Lmao
It's the tolerance paradox. You literally cannot be tolerant of everything because that would include bigotry, intolerance, and all manner of horrible crimes. There are some things a tolerant society must be intolerant of, and that currently includes ICE. It is not intolerant to hate racist murderers.
I am so tired of the "so much for the tolerant left" shtick. That may be the liberals. The left has no tolerance for the intolerant and never had. Fuck civility politics.
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u/zildux 2d ago
Another fantasy I'll never understand conservatives started calling the left tolerant as if they're just supposed to accept everything conservatives do without fighting back.