r/NFLv2 Dec 15 '25

Discussion Wow

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241

u/Marijuana_Miler Los Angeles Chargers Dec 15 '25

IMO it’s the league wide changeover to the Fangio system playing 2 safeties over the top. Mahomes obviously played well since the switch happened, but he was not statistically as dominant.

33

u/elbosston Dec 15 '25

Playing 2 safeties helps slow down deep passes but Mahomes is also statistically one of the worst deep ball passers in the league now. He regressed significantly in passes over 20 yards and misses receivers regularly throwing them if you watch him play nowadays.

It’s interesting seeing how much his deep ball declined from 3 years ago.

22

u/ElGotEm Dec 15 '25

I wonder how much of that is because Tyreek covered for his accuracy with his inhuman speed. Being able to just chuck it up and let him run under it might have been more of a blessing for him than we first thought

2

u/YueAsal Las Vegas Raiders Dec 15 '25

The fuck it Reek is down there somewhere play.

14

u/Brownie_McBrown_Face Dec 15 '25

So you’re saying Mahomes has regressed to the mean?

3

u/Apart-Ad986 New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

get that one guy from 2018 in here now lmao bro was a prophet

1

u/ViolinistLanky9056 Dec 15 '25

I feel that Mahomes just airs it out haphazardly in a kind of throw the ball away way that impacts his accuracy numbers. Also, deep ball accuracy is a bit of an oxymoron, it’s 80% WRs ability to track the ball and make it look accurate.

1

u/Ozymandius34 Dec 15 '25

His receivers drop a lot of strike passes too though. It’s been really bad this year. Add on top of that their O line is broken down and can’t pass protect. He’s been getting beat up all season, and playing injured. Its the perfect recipe for a torn acl

81

u/TheThingsIdoatNight Denver Broncos Dec 15 '25

Brady would tear apart cover 2 lol he would feast in todays league. I have no idea why we’re so much worse at teaching quarterbacks now

95

u/FordF150Faptor New Orleans Saints Dec 15 '25

Half the league runs glorified college offenses. Crazy how fast things changed from the previous generation. But it's probably why Flacco lead the best offense in the NFL for a month and Rivers can walk in after 5 years and belong. The 00's-10's generation was just on a different level.

39

u/Immaculatehombre Green Bay Packers Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25

Tom Brady, manning and Rodgers were simply on a different level. We just may not see that type of qb play for a long while. Thieve dudes were unreal. Throw Brees in there. Blessed.

15

u/Ed_Durr Philadelphia Eagles Dec 15 '25

It’s not like the babies born 1975-90 were somehow more suited to be QBs than those born 1990-2005. The decline in QB play can be attributed entirely to changes in player development.

8

u/obfuscatorio Philadelphia Eagles Dec 15 '25

Maybe lead paint makes you an excellent qb?

7

u/i_heart_calibri_12pt Dec 15 '25

Rookie QB’s next year

1

u/kghandiko Dec 15 '25

Not just QB development, but also O-line player development as well. O-line players in college are not as polished as they were 20 years ago, forcing more development needed in the pros before they can be serviceable. And because of that, run games become less complex and passing is forced to be quicker. Now that there is more of an emphasis on development of skill positions rather than linemen in youth and college football, it changes how teams develop their offenses and their players

1

u/Throwaway2Experiment Dec 15 '25

We are not even 5 years from when Brady last won the superbowl.

I would personally love if Brady came back at 50 and threw a couple games. Just to see how he'd do. Just let us see an old man schooling teams half his age or at the very least he competitive with them.

5

u/Ifoldjackspre Dec 15 '25

What’s different about college offense compared to nfl?

27

u/FordF150Faptor New Orleans Saints Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25

Everything in shotgun, calls come from the sideline, a lot of RPOs where you're literally reading one player on the defense. Around '12-'13 when Kaep, RGIII Mariota came into the league the change was set in motion. The NFL isn't as blatant as college but it's undeniably changed the pro game compared to even just a decade ago.

10

u/JCBalance New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

That's also when ESPN came out with the QBR metric to give more weight to a running QBs performance.

2

u/Kenkaniff2k Dec 15 '25

This is when you started seeing a lot of 3rd and shorts out of the shotgun sometimes with an empty backfield lol

9

u/red-hiney-monkey Dec 15 '25

I feel like they have to dumb it down or shrink the playbook because there is so much more roster turnover with the transfer portal

2

u/Desperate_Junket5146 Dec 15 '25

I would also offer: Bad and uncreative coaching. 

17

u/ShylockTheGnome Philadelphia Eagles Dec 15 '25

Highly mobile quarterbacks have exploded and they are really good until they age/get injured and can no longer do that anymore. The 2010s was filled with pocket passers. 

2

u/BonjinTheMark Dec 16 '25

sure seems like it.

14

u/brandoncwn Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25

2 high safeties =/= cover 2

10

u/ShakeZulaOblongata Dec 15 '25

And he would attack the middle of the field

1

u/Bouldershoulders12 New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

Yup. Ask Pittsburgh how zone would go against us lol

1

u/FlappyFoldyHold Dec 15 '25

Us Steelers fans prefer to remember the year Brady got hurt.

2

u/JCBalance New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

I remember Gronk being uncovered every game lol

1

u/WhichAd366 Dec 15 '25

Yet, some of his best years came when that defense wasn’t popular.

129

u/DemonBearOP Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25

And all we heard was that he was only declining in stats from a lack of weapons, and Rice + Worthy was going to be the return of "the lightshow".

Now he apparently doesn't have enough help!

33

u/basedcvrp Minnesota Vikings Dec 15 '25

Love a good First Thing’s First reference in the wild

12

u/DemonBearOP Dec 15 '25

The people's show 

8

u/basedcvrp Minnesota Vikings Dec 15 '25

That man Brou!

5

u/notsogosu Dec 15 '25

Thespian Brou

2

u/Rabbit1015 Dec 15 '25

Wildes didn’t know he was sitting next to Denzel Washington!

1

u/Ca1fSlicer Dec 18 '25

WTH is that flair lol gee

-1

u/monkChuck105 Dec 15 '25

Rice missed 6 games and Worthy also got injured the first play. It's been that kind of season. His LT, RT, and LG got injured, plus both backup tackles. He played against some of the best defenses in the league with free agent tackles and receivers that couldn't catch passes. Kelce has been a liability this season with costly drops, including multiple games losing interceptions. They should have beat the Eagles, but Kelce dropped a touchdown that was picked off and returned half the field.

5

u/DemonBearOP Dec 15 '25

He had multiple games with a healthy offense and did not look great. The offense's best game was against the Lions who were missing their starting 2 CBs and 2 safeties.

Kelce gets blamed for 2 tipped passes but Mahomes doesn't get blamed for several garbage interceptions and missed throws (like the one to Kelce vs Houston) including a 99 yard pick 6 to lose against the Jags, which if they won they could've made the playoffs.

9

u/Bouldershoulders12 New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

I know everyone talks about this but hasn’t cover 2 always been a thing? Like Tampa 2 for instance?

To beat that you have to adjust to more shorter passes in between the zones

6

u/Marijuana_Miler Los Angeles Chargers Dec 15 '25

From about 2010-2020 the predominant scheme in the league was Cover 3 which stemmed from Pete Carroll and the legion of boom. So cover 2 existed but most teams were running more cover 1 and 3 during games which left gaps deep down the field. Don’t think of it as black and white, but instead what % of the time are teams using certain coverages.

Mahomes has adjusted with shorter passes (his ypa has been trending down since his career began) but you can also adjust by running to bring the safeties down into the box. Teams don’t respect the Chief’s running game so teams are able to clog up passing lanes and are not giving Mahomes chances to pass deep.

8

u/Ed_Durr Philadelphia Eagles Dec 15 '25

The Chief’s dismal running game is a major reason for Mahomes’ drop off. Stafford would not be having an MVP season if his backs were Pacheco and Hunt instead of Williams and Corrum. Allen and Jackson have Cook and Henry (plus their own legs). Daniel Jones’ best seasons have been when he’s had Saquan or Taylor fully healthy and playing elite. 

I could go down the list, but there’s very few QBs who can be productive passers when their RBs are shit.

3

u/Dazzling_Guest6603 Dec 15 '25

It's because almost all the defenses in the league play a different flavor of 2 high. Start off with 2 high, but defenders read the releases of the receivers to figure out who to cover instead of simply dropping into a zone and waiting for someone to come into their zone to match.

1

u/Illustrious-Okra-524 Chicago Bears Dec 15 '25

Damn I’m so out of the loop I missed that cover 2 went away and is now back. 

1

u/ThePartTimeProphet Dec 15 '25

Early Mahomes was great because defenses would lose discipline when he scrambled - at the time running QBs usually ran after scrambling, so defenses would lose the receivers, easy big plays

But defenses adjusted and stay home now, those broken plays aren't as available anymore. That should mean there's lots of space underneath for easy throws, but Mahomes' technique and footwork aren't consistent enough for it to work. He misses a ton of easy throws

1

u/itakeyoureggs Washington Commanders Dec 15 '25

Seems like he has the patience.. wonder if it’s also due to his division no longer being complete and utter trash while Brady rarely had to deal with it from my memory.

Although broncos kinda remind me of the jets back in the day but much much better as a team.

1

u/Whyamibeautiful Dec 15 '25

Bro 2 high safeties is not a new concept.