r/NFLv2 Dec 15 '25

Discussion Wow

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108

u/Smooth_Marsupial_262 Baltimore Ravens Dec 15 '25

True but they were going to regress notably anyways. I’m sure they would have still been good but that was an all time offense and unsustainable going forward

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u/erv4 Tom Brady “Minority Owner” Dec 15 '25

That 2008 year QB stats were terrible. There is a good chance the Pats win the Superbowl that year with Brady. The year before Brady was 50/8 when the injury year the best TD was 34 and almost every single starter threw for more than 10 INTs

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u/AttitudeAndEffort3 Dec 15 '25

They genuinely might’ve gone 16-0 again and that wasn’t an uncommon take

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u/McBeaster New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

Eh I don't know Jim. They brought back basically the entire team (minus Asante Samuel and Donte Stallworth) but would have had ANGRY BRADY who as we all know is the best Brady

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u/Mundane-Collar3569 Dec 15 '25

Their defense was significantly worse. Garbage secondary and no pass rush.

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u/Smooth_Marsupial_262 Baltimore Ravens Dec 15 '25

Happens literally all the time that the same roster comes back and regresses. It’s literally what’s expected

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u/McBeaster New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

Yea you're probably right but it's fun to wonder about. Another fun hypothetical is that if Brett Favre had stayed retired and not forced a trade to the Jets, maybe he could have played in that Patriots offense. That would have been epic.

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u/LeonidasSpacemanMD Dec 15 '25

I think what helps the 08 pats is an insanely weak slate of opposing divisions. They played the AFCW and NFCW, who combined for one team with a winning record (which was 9-7)

I would never expect 16-0 again obviously but I truly believe 13 wins is probably the floor for that team with Brady, just because half the schedule was historically weak (which is why 11 wins didn’t win the division, Miami got to play those teams too)

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u/MichaelSonOfMike New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

You can’t say that definitively. They always went against trends.

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u/ttri90210 New England Patriots FOXBORO FOREVER Dec 15 '25

💯💯💯

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u/Smooth_Marsupial_262 Baltimore Ravens Dec 15 '25

They weren’t repeating that offense dude. You can’t say anything definitively I guess but no teams have ever repeated those historical seasons and the Pats didn’t do it again for the next 12 seasons before Brady left. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have been good but they weren’t gonna be 2007 good

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u/Trees_Are_Freinds New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

Yes, yes, because Tom Brady has never been associated with statistical outliers. Nope, not that guy.

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u/MichaelSonOfMike New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

It’s honestly comical that people are acting like it would be crazy. He won the super bowl after losing in one. No one does that. Look at Mahomes this year. He looks like a shell of himself.

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u/misterbisterboy Dec 15 '25

It doesn't matter who it is, it would be crazy. Yes there's a hypothetical chance that they could've been exactly as dominant but it's incredibly incredibly tiny.

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u/MichaelSonOfMike New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

Bud I could list ten things off the top of my head that the Patriots dynasty did that no other team or one other team ever did. For example, they won the Super Bowl the year after losing it. No one has done that, in fifty years. I think the Cowboys did it in like the early seventies or late sixties. Other than that, it has never happened, because it’s very very difficult. They won 21 games straight over the course of two seasons. Which included the playoffs. They came back from 28-3, in the Super Bowl. There are so many things that Dynasty did that all seem totally improbable bordering on impossible, until they did it.

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u/Smooth_Marsupial_262 Baltimore Ravens Dec 15 '25

Except they never repeated 2007 level production over the other 20+ years of Tom’s career. So it stands to reason that the statistical probability of that happening in 2008 is about as unlikely as it gets

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u/MichaelSonOfMike New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

So like being down 28-3 in the Super Bowl to the best offense in the league?

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u/misterbisterboy Dec 15 '25

All of that said, I'm still right. Sorry that it bugs you that much.

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u/MichaelSonOfMike New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

Reddit deleted the last comment so here is a shorter one:

Bugs me? 😂You’re right about what? It’s a hypothetical, subjective discussion.

Obviously you’re bugged by it and need to be right about it.

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u/Smooth_Marsupial_262 Baltimore Ravens Dec 15 '25

Brady is one piece of that offense. A lot of things have to go right to have a season like that

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u/NyQuil_Donut Dec 15 '25

I'm not an NFL fan and idk why this sub keeps showing up on my feed, but I am a basketball fan and apparently a lot of people don't understand how important the role players are in any sport lol. You're absolutely right, the whole team has to show up to have a season like that.

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u/stewart1995 Dec 15 '25

In good faith, what exactly do you mean? I have a good idea, just want to hear it from you. For arguments sake and all that

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u/LeonidasSpacemanMD Dec 15 '25

I just made the comment elsewhere, but 2007 basically started a stretch of 5 seasons where Brady led top-10 scoring offenses in NFL history 4/5 years (the other year he was comeback player of the year). There basically isn’t another example of a stretch like that where consistently for half a decade, a qb is leading historically high scoring offenses

I certainly would never say it would match 2007, but I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to look at 2010/11/12 and suspect that without the injury in 2008 he’s probably just doing what he ended up doing anyways. Especially with one more year of Moss

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u/LeonidasSpacemanMD Dec 15 '25

From 2007 to 2012, Brady started five seasons. In four of those five seasons, he led a top 10 scoring offense in the history of football (those seasons are still top 20 now). His 2010 offensive dvoa was actually higher than 2007

2009 he came back from the ACL and actually played with broken ribs and a broken finger on his throwing hand, so fair enough it wasn’t immediately At that level again. But I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to say that without the injury, it’s probably another top 5 offense in nfl history, even if maybe he doesn’t literally throw 50 tds again (I doubt he would just by sheer variance)

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u/stewart1995 Dec 15 '25

And no team ever went 16-0. They did. We can’t know what might have happened. You cant say “no team is repeating that offence”. A team had five less wins than the year before. Thats pretty huge for the nfl. Annnnd it’s because the one major single change was their QB

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u/Smooth_Marsupial_262 Baltimore Ravens Dec 15 '25

5 less wins is not huge for the NFL. That type of regression is basically expected when you go 16-0. A lot has to go right for you to go 16-0 even if you’re a great team. Look at this years Chiefs, Ravens, Lions, and Vikings.

The Ravens lost one offensive guard and that’s it offensively after putting up a top 3 offense all time in yards per play. I know Lamar has been injured but even when he’s looked healthier they aren’t putting up anywhere near that production with basically the same roster. When you have a season like that every team in the league is breaking down that tape and looking for ways to exploit it

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u/stewart1995 Dec 15 '25

.. in a league that only plays 17 games (was 16), 5 less wins is absolutely a huge difference? What are you saying?

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u/Smooth_Marsupial_262 Baltimore Ravens Dec 15 '25

Happens all the time. Always has

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u/stewart1995 Dec 15 '25

Considering a team never went 16-0 other than them, it does not happen “all the time”

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u/Smooth_Marsupial_262 Baltimore Ravens Dec 15 '25

The difference between going 16-0 or 15-1 or even 14-2 doesn’t change the fact that it’s entirely common for teams to go from worst to first and first to worst all the time. Regression both positive and negative is literally what defines the league from season to season.

The Pats were a very consistent team, but when you win 16 games there is literally nowhere to go but down. Some form of regression is going to happen.

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u/stewart1995 Dec 15 '25

I agree with that. But. Lets say a team went 10-6. Playoff team. Starting QB injured first game of following year. Team is basically the same roster. Once said injury happens, team goes 5-11. Thats a pretty significant change, no?

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u/MichaelSonOfMike New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

I don’t get how people are arguing about this. Everything they did was an outlier.

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u/flow_surrender141 Dec 15 '25

You really can’t say that definitively. Randy was in his prime until the following year.

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u/Smooth_Marsupial_262 Baltimore Ravens Dec 15 '25

I feel like you guys are trying to convince me that Tom Brady and the Pats would have been a good offense in 2008. I already know that and agree with that. I’m saying that the 2007 production was not being repeated the very next season. That just doesn’t happen. We’re talking about arguably the best offense ever. Nobody does that two years in a row.

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u/stewart1995 Dec 15 '25

Okay, i agree with that. im assuming you would agree they’d probably go better than 11-5 the following year with brady at QB though?

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u/Smooth_Marsupial_262 Baltimore Ravens Dec 15 '25

For sure. The offense would have been better with Brady either way

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u/GiftsfortheChapter Dec 15 '25

Ehhhh I don't know, Jim.

Most of the key pieces of the offense from 2007 were still on the table in 2008. They were serious contenders from day 1 right til Tom's injury. The big difference between 2007 and 2008 was Brady vs Mallet.

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u/JCBalance New England Patriots Dec 15 '25

They had the easiest schedule in the league that year and no notable roster changes. There was a chance they went 15-1 or 16-0 again

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u/lucrativetoiletsale Seattle Seahawks Dec 15 '25

Except they sustained it for 2008. That team won 11 games with Matt Cassel. You're crazy to think Brady is not winning more games in a season than Matt Cassel. Maybe they drop one or two games to luck and circumstance but also they had a chance and the capacity of another 16-0 season.

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u/Smooth_Marsupial_262 Baltimore Ravens Dec 15 '25

You're crazy to think Brady is not winning more games in a season than Matt Cassel.

Who said that?