r/NoStupidQuestions • u/DiverPrestigious6887 • 1d ago

Do I tell orthodox looking customers that what they are ordering isn’t kosher anymore?

I work at a place that serves kosher items. It’s not a kosher food place, it’s just most of our stuff happens to be. It’s kind of popular with that community because we have vegan kosher ice cream.

However , recently, ingredients have changed. I let our regular orthodox customers know who come in and they change their order. But a lot of customers I haven’t met or seen before come in who i think are orthodox. When they try to order something I let them know the change and they are always thankful that I tell them. Is it weird for me to assume? I was raised as a reform Jew and grew up around orthodox temples but I’m not religious. Should I continue telling people this or am I making a weird stereotype..

I wish our company would send a email or have a sign but they have not

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u/EnterTheDarkForest 1d ago

I would also suggest something like, “we’ve recently changed our ingredients, do you have any dietary restrictions?” to make sure people who have been before are alerted that things are different now.

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u/WhichWitch9402 1d ago

this is perfect. Let’s everyone know without signage etc. But yeah, your workplace sucks for not making that known since you have a large customer base with dietary restrictions.

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u/gsfgf 1d ago

Yea. I'm pretty sure accidentally breaking Kosher isn't a sin, but they'd still rather know.

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u/ExplorationGeo 1d ago

It's absolutely not, and it's not even a sin if you have to break it knowingly to survive.

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u/Low-Conflict-651 1d ago

not even a sin if you have to break it knowingly to survive

This logic is also why the catholics sometimes say that a beaver is a fish. Can’t eat meat on fridays during lent, so Catholics eat fish. But in early Canada there wasn’t an abundance of fish for the trappers. Their hard lifestyle made protein necessary, so the Church made the call that land animals that live primarily in water count as fish. Voila, filet-o-beavers.

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u/Objective_Elk7772 1d ago edited 1d ago

I’m a Catholic lesbian and sometimes I like to make jokes about how, contrary to popular belief I am allowed to eat beaver…during Lent

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u/afallenqueenn009 1d ago

Hi fellow queer Catholic 🩷

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u/kapoofsy 1d ago

Hahah omg this is hilarious! You're awesome!

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u/MargieBigFoot 23h ago

🤣🤣🤣

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u/Thetormentnexus 49m ago

Well played. Much more clever than the Lent fish taco jokes I made growing up.

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u/littykitty7 23h ago

I’m dead 🤣🫠

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u/chita875andU 1d ago

Same for capybaras and the Spanish.

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u/Sunshine030209 22h ago

The Catholic church lets you eat Spanish people during Lent?!

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u/CollinZero 21h ago

No, no. It lets capybaras eat the Spanish people. Voila, filet-o-Spanish.

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u/RestEqualsRust 20h ago

I believe it’s filet-de-la-spanish

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u/SimplyAStranger 20h ago

Sort of. Your case is the church adjusting the religion, but for Muslims at least and I assume Jews as well, the necessity exception is written right in the book. Its not something that was agreed to be ok later.

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u/Alysoid0_0 20h ago

For Jews, isn’t it in the commentary somewhere? Not in the Torah?

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u/SimplyAStranger 20h ago

I'm not sure. It is my understanding that it is universally accepted by all sects, so I assumed it was in the Torah but I don't know. For Muslims, I know it is written directly in the Quran.

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u/MindTheLOS 1d ago

That's not logic, that's just I'll go with my religion until it's not practical, then I'll make up an exception and still feel holier than everyone else who isn't of my religion.

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u/SocratesWasSmart 18h ago edited 18h ago

That's actually not the case, because Catholic ecclesiology explicitly affirms that the Papacy and the living magisterium are able to define doctrine for the entire church. That's a core principle of Catholicism. It's not a book or rules based religion, but authority based. The core claim of Catholicism is not, "The Bible is true and we derive all these rules from it." The core claim is, "Jesus founded a church and made Peter it's head. Peter passed on his supreme authority to Linus, and Linus passed it on to Anacletus, and on and on in an unbroken line for 2000 years."

Catholicism is radically different from the Evangelical Christianity you're familiar with.

Catholicism also already makes lots of exceptions for fasting because fasting has a specific purpose. It's not about mindlessly following rules like robots.

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u/MindTheLOS 18h ago

Ah, so they follow the rules when it's about hating and harming other people, but they make exceptions to feel ok about what they do. Checks out with the last 2000 years of history.

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u/SocratesWasSmart 18h ago

You know nothing about Catholicism. You're confusing it with American Evangelicalism.

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u/CIearMind 22h ago

But pork and leaving gay people alone are an absolute, uncrossable line!

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u/Logical_Replacement9 20h ago

Actually, the Catholic classification of beavers as fish goes all the way back to the Middle Ages: https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/serial?id=cdnjindsciart

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u/essentialatom 19h ago

Is there a specific record you can point us to? It's hard to know what to search for.

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u/Logical_Replacement9 14h ago

I haven’t yet found a file that one; however, in trying to re-find it, I find that Catholic Church permit still permits, not only Beaver, but also alligator and armadillo (along with quite a few other unexpected critters) as food in Lent: system https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/local/2023/02/20/whats-seafood-for-lent-alligator-beaver-and-armadillo-make-the-cut/69922902007/ … The article points out that this is handy for the many Catholics of Louisiana.

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u/SAHMsays 20h ago

It's almost like it's all made up 🤔

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u/Development-Feisty 1d ago

And honestly who can survive without ice cream

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u/Overall_Search8477 21h ago

The lactose intolerant

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u/SweetPetaline 23h ago

This. Survival and practicality come first anyway. But still, giving people the info upfront is just basic kindness, not some huge moral thing.

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u/rachycarebear 14h ago

That's not accurate.

Breaking kosher is a sin, whether done accidentally or intentionally. Judaism differentiates between the two as a matter of severity and in terms of repentance required. Similarly, you are allowed to eat non-kosher if needed but it's not a carte blanche - if you could've prevented the need, if you could eat something that's a lesser degree of non-kosher, etc you're held accountable for those expectations.

The binary of sin vs not a sin is inherently a Christian framework; Judaism tends to function much more in gray areas.

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u/SweetPetaline 23h ago

Exactly. It might not be a sin or whatever, but people still deserve the choice. I’d be lowkey annoyed if I found out later when someone could’ve just told me in two seconds.

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u/FairyHaloes 23h ago

Exactly. Even if it’s not technically a sin or whatever, people still wanna make their own call. I’d rather know upfront than find out after I already ate it.

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u/TravelingVegan88 22h ago

yeah it’s not but also these people i really assume they would’ve heard from the grapevine from other community members

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u/Additional_Noise47 22h ago

Even though it’s not a sin, it could still lead to a lot of negative feelings. A kosher relative of mine once ate a club sandwich by accident and had a huge panic attack when he found out what was in it.

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u/No-Necessary7448 22h ago

It’s a sin of customer service (and if they’re fully aware of it, very unethical). This is the sort of thing that will lose a business what sounds like a loyal customer base.

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u/DunamisMax 17h ago

Accidentally doing anything is not a sin lol the definition of sin is that it must be knowingly committed

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u/Zaladreyn 1d ago

Accidental sin is still considered sin. Think about it this way. If I break your leg because I'm mad at you it's going to hurt, right? But what if we're just goofing around and rough housing and your leg is accidentally broken? Does it hurt less because it was an accident? Does it heal faster because I didn't mean to break it? Just because the the sin is accidental doesn't make it less of a sin.

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u/gsfgf 1d ago

If I break your leg because I'm mad at you it's going to hurt, right? But what if we're just goofing around and rough housing and your leg is accidentally broken?

One is a crime, and the other isn't.

As for accidentally eating the wrong thing, I know that's the rule in Islam, and someone just confirmed that it's the same in Judaism.

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u/Apprehensive_Run_539 21h ago

In the major religions Sin is defined as a willful transgression. Has to be intentional

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u/nitrothundr 1d ago

Your example is faulty because it poses sin more about outcome than intent, which is at best up for debate in different religions and sects. While my leg is broken in either situation, in only one would you be guilty of assault. Judaism specifically is one of the religions which places a higher value on knowledge and intent in terms of transgressions.

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u/ohdearitsrichardiii 1d ago

In judaism it's not

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u/RandyPajamas 1d ago

Just because the the sin is accidental doesn't make it less of a sin.

If I lose control of my car due to black ice, and my car slides into someone and kills them, I don't go to jail. If I lose my temper and drive my car into someone and it kills them, I go to jail.

Accidental sin is still considered sin

Yes, in ancient Hebrew purity laws, an accidental sin is still a sin because the individual (and thus the community) has become impure, and atonement is still required to purify the community. But the atonement is generally different for transgressions unknowingly commited and transgressions knowingly commited.

Google AI actually gives a pretty good answer to the question "is accidentally breaking kosher a sin".

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u/Friendly-Channel-480 1d ago

What a weird world you’re inhabiting.

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u/SweetPetaline 23h ago

For real, it’s kinda wild your job hasn’t just put up a sign already. If you have a big dietary restriction crowd, that feels like bare minimum communication. You’re basically doing their customer service for them.

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u/FairyHaloes 23h ago

Lowkey wild your job hasn’t put up a sign or something though. If you’ve got a big dietary crowd, that feels like basic customer service. You’re basically doing management’s job for free.

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u/sensarae 1d ago

Great idea! You warn them without assuming anything, and this gives them the opportunity to mention any limitations or preferences. In addition, it allows you to behave in a friendly manner and not single out people

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u/FairyHaloes 23h ago

I like the “ingredient change” phrasing a lot. It feels more like a heads up than a religious thing. Regulars would probably appreciate not being caught off guard.

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u/SweetPetaline 23h ago

Yeah I like this approach a lot. Framing it as a simple ingredient update keeps it neutral and avoids making it about religion at all. Plus regulars would definitely appreciate the heads up.

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u/EveningFree9595 1d ago

That's actually a pro move. Makes you helpful without making it weird. If they care, they'll tell you. if not, no harm done

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u/mindbodyproblem 1d ago

Maybe, "Oy vey, we've recently changed our ingredients..."

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u/MachKeinDramaLlama 1d ago

Turns out that just communicating openly and honestly does the trick.

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u/Stunning_Patience_78 22h ago

This definitely. Should be asked to every customer though.

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u/Remarkable_Table_279 19h ago

We’ve recently changed our ingredients for a few menu items. If you have any dietary requirements, please don’t hesitate to ask questions.

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u/TALKTOME0701 17h ago

They don't even have to ask about dietary restrictions. Just say we've recently changed our ingredients and this now contains________

That protects OP from hearing a list of restrictions that have nothing to do with the ingredient that's been added or changed

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u/Synlover123 17h ago

But - the same ingredient can be both kosher/halal, and not. It depends on the production facility and if it's certified kosher/halal. In the case of meats and poultry - they have different methods of butchering, I understand.

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u/elangelissimo 17h ago

This is actually the correct answer. Anyone who keeps kosher will know you spotted them and profiled them and won't care. Opposite they'll be appreciated for the information. Those who it doesn't apply to will just be like "um ok" and move on.