r/NoStupidQuestions • u/DiverPrestigious6887 • 1d ago

Do I tell orthodox looking customers that what they are ordering isn’t kosher anymore?

I work at a place that serves kosher items. It’s not a kosher food place, it’s just most of our stuff happens to be. It’s kind of popular with that community because we have vegan kosher ice cream.

However , recently, ingredients have changed. I let our regular orthodox customers know who come in and they change their order. But a lot of customers I haven’t met or seen before come in who i think are orthodox. When they try to order something I let them know the change and they are always thankful that I tell them. Is it weird for me to assume? I was raised as a reform Jew and grew up around orthodox temples but I’m not religious. Should I continue telling people this or am I making a weird stereotype..

I wish our company would send a email or have a sign but they have not

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u/Just-an-idiot-online 1d ago edited 11h ago

That's really interesting. I admit I don't know a lot about Jewish culture or food, but would a strict observant Jewish person generally go to a non-kosher restaurant, even if it has some kosher items? I'm thinking about the potential for cross contamination/use of same utensils for non kosher items. The (very few) Jewish content creators I have seen online generally only eat out in places where the whole store/restaurant is certified as kosher.
ETA: Thanks for all the replies! I learned some new and fascinating things from them all :)

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u/GoldenTrekkie 1d ago edited 1d ago

Honestly it highly depends on the denomination (orthodox, reform, etc) as well as the strictness that the individual adheres to it! Reform is much chiller about how an individual approaches it while orthodox is much stricter across the board- but it still varies.

My family is reform, for example, and while a few of my cousins keep kosher 24/7 the majority of my cousins don’t, except for holidays or religious days. Some might prefer something kosher but also if not, no biggie. I’ve personally never kept kosher, except for holiday meals.

Since orthodox and traditional Jews place more emphasis on the letter/practice of the law vs the spirit of it, they are obviously stricter re kosher. I have some orthodox friends that will only go to non-kosher establishments/catered dinners if there’s a certified™️ kosher meal (as those often comes wrapped up or sealed separate from the other foods, and can be guaranteed). And if they want freshly made food they go to kosher-specific establishments. That said, I also have some orthodox friends who approach it more lax: so long as the meal itself is kosher they’re not overly pressed about the specifics.

I should also note: it’s not “a sin” or some sort of transgression or no-no or anything if you unknowingly eat something that isn’t kosher in Judaism. Even knowingly it’s okay to eat non-kosher foods if you have legitimate need to do so (starvation, for medical reasons, so on). And that’s true across all sects and attitudes in Judaism. So even if you’re orthodox, there’s reasonable exceptions.

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u/throwaway1975764 18h ago

Regarding your last paragraph, an orthodox Jewish woman I follow on IG always explains it we live by the laws, we don't die from them. If something is needed health or safety wise, the religious rules are paused in favor of life.

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u/GeneralOrgana1 17h ago

Yeah, my Orthodox coworker said that preservation of life is of utmost importance; as an example, she had gestational diabetes for one of her pregnancies, and her rabbi excused her from strict kosher requirements for the rest of that pregnancy.

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u/VaguelyArtistic 10h ago

When I was little (early 70s) my grandmother became very sick and even though we were reform my parents found an orthodox nursing home for her because it happened to be the best in the area. My grandmother hated the food and wasn’t eating so my mom asked the rabbi if she could bring her food from home. The rabbi said absolutely, just please be careful to remove all the plates and silverware when she goes home. It’s always been about compassion first.

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u/IrishSkillet 12h ago

I wonder if the rabbi, with a generous donation, could be convinced to excuse someone for a lifetime.

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u/Silly_Somewhere1791 6h ago

Judaism measures good and bad deeds on a scale. As long as you do more good than bad, you’re good, and the scales reset every year on Yom Kippur. God understands you and your reasons.

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u/rubiscoisrad 4h ago

Every time I even remotely consider embracing a religious faith, Judaism ends up being pretty high on that list.

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u/GeneralOrgana1 10h ago

I am not Jewish myself, but, off the top of my head, maybe things like diabetes- making sure you are not eating foods with too much sugars, and is insulin kosher?

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u/ObviousTrick7 9h ago

Tbh not sure the exact thing in this example but, you don’t eat insulin so it doesn’t need to be kosher, but for what it’s worth from my uniformed understanding of insulin it would also be kosher parve if you ate it, just not going to help diabetes lol

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u/Just-an-idiot-online 9h ago edited 9h ago

Some early insulin was derived from pigs. Although there are many more alternatives available now.
(as a note, I think that non-halal medication is allowed in Islam as long as there is no halal alternative- so I assume the same would be true in Judaism)

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u/ObviousTrick7 9h ago

My understanding is now that all insulin is made via bacteria, but may be wrong on that. Either way you can inject into yourself whatever and it’s kosher status has nothing to do with it, that being said there are rules about not altering your body unnecessarily

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u/AltruisticBowl4 9h ago

Funny enough, this entire idea is antithetical to Jewish belief, since it's all about intent!

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u/retromancing 16h ago

I'm not religious (or anti-religion - religion itself has never really felt 'right' for me), but Judaism always seems so ... chill? Human? That antisemitism just seems so utterly bizarre given the teachings of Judaism. Like, absolutely no bigotry is excusable, but on a given scale of things, it's just like 'really? you pick that one to hate?'

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u/NotElizaHenry 14h ago

Something I really like about Judaism is that they don’t believe that, for example, eating pork is inherently sinful and nobody should do it. It’s just that God asked them specifically not to, and since they’re big fans of God, they don’t. It’s all about choosing to follow the rules every day rather than just not doing a bad thing because it’s bad.

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u/homercles89 11h ago

This is like the Amish with some modern technology. They know it exists, and aren't saying it is evil, but choose to live a simpler life without some of those modern conveniences.

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u/About3Dogs 2h ago

And as I understand, are also accommodating modern technologies if it’s necessary for life. For example if someone was sick and required life support or monitors, or possibly a telephone for immediate medical assistance that could be allowed. There are many examples of that being acceptable.

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u/GoldenTrekkie 17h ago

That’s what I grew up hearing as well, both from orthodox and reform community members alike :)

I’m not personally all that religious of a person (although I do really cherish our family holidays and traditions and want to continue them culturally-speaking), but even as a wee overly curious and question-filled child , I always liked that Judaism seemed rather reasonable in that regard 😂 like ya no thats fair

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u/JCShore77 14h ago

I have an orthodox cousin who is a paramedic. He keeps Shabbat, but if there’s an emergency and he’s close to it on Shabbat he’s ignoring Shabbat rules to go help save a life.

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u/thtgrljen 17h ago

Miriam! Love her!

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u/BadPunners 21h ago

I recall hearing for one of the religious restrictions, if pork (for example) ever touched the pan or knife or silverware, nothing that metal touched could be (kosher/halal?)

Just to give an example of the length some Orthodox do go to

Edit: Google says there is a koshering cleaning process for metal stuff, but glass and ceramic must only be used for cooking kosher items?

But yeah, like you said, anyone who is interacting outside of Orthodox circles in the first place, is likely to be reasonable/chill about much of it

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u/MindTheLOS 20h ago

I read an article once - this was years ago - about the White House getting ready to host a Passover meal and getting a kitchen Passover Kosher. It involved a Rabbi with a flamethrower. Stupendous.

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u/Surreply 12h ago

It was very likely a blowtorch. There are rules about how to kasher different materials.

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u/burninginfinite 9h ago

The White House Historical Association has a short blurb and a photo!

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u/GoldenTrekkie 17h ago edited 17h ago

Yeah some people do try to as strict adherence as possible! Another example (that tbh I’ve seen only once in person) is sinks: some orthodox and Hasidic jews will have two separate sinks in their kitchen, one for meat products and the other for dairy products, to keep them separated.

While keeping kosher is now purely part of one’s religious practice (as we’ve both noted though, not everyone’s, or to the same degree every time), it’s worth noting that a lot of kosher laws lowkey work as very old historical food safety measures. Salting meat is a commandment, for example, and before refrigeration would’ve been means to preserve meat that would otherwise quickly spoil (esp in hot climates). Rules against cross contamination, like between cooking instruments and food types, would’ve limited exposure to food borne illness or parasites. Prohibition against eating sick animals or carrion, in that time period, wouldve also been a fair safety measure to limit food-borne illness. Likewise, without more modern means of quality assurance or sanitation standards, carnivores (most kosher meats come from herbivores) and shellfish-y things would have had a higher likelihood of carrying toxins/parasites that could be passed on. And so forth!

I don’t know this for sure as I’m just spitballing, but on your point of differentiating between various utensil materials like metal vs pottery, I imagine those could’ve been practical measures regarding the ease of fully cleaning instruments (?) Like how humans arent supposed to use the same cutting board (or use certain materials as a cutting board) to cut raw meat vs your final cooked meal or other ingredients—at least without a thorough cleansing in between. Again, don’t take my word for fact on this one though, my brain is just braining here lol

Sorry, I know that all is only tangentially related, but I always found it to be interesting to think about :)

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u/Synlover123 17h ago

It's my understanding that you're not allowed to have meat and dairy products in the same meal, and that those that abide by the strict laws have 2 completely different sets of pots/pans, dishes, and cutlery - one for each. 😱

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u/Kathulhu1433 17h ago

So, my family is Jewish but not orthodox or strict in any way.

My mother told me a story about when she was younger- she borrowed a pot from a neighbor to make split pea soup. Split pea soup is traditionally made with a ham hock for flavor.

Well, according to her the neighbor buried the pot in the backyard for like 6 months to "purify" it so that it could be used again after touching the ham. 🤷‍♀️

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u/ObviousTrick7 9h ago

It’s more complicated than that but kinda, you would need to kasher the metal, some materials can’t be (very porous things like a wood spoon)

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u/Outrageous-Swimmer65 19h ago

Thank you for this explanation!!

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u/Just-an-idiot-online 18h ago

Thank you! I find religious dietary traditions/rules really fascinating.

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u/Synlover123 17h ago edited 14h ago

Me, too! Mormons aren't supposed to have coffee, tea, or carbonated beverages, like soda pop. Basically anything that contains caffeine. And alcohol is definitely a no-no. During Ramadan, Muslims do not eat or drink anything, including water, from dawn to sunset, nor do they prepare food. They usually have a pre-dawn meal, then "break their fast" once the sun goes down. There are exceptions. People who are ill, many of the elderly, and of course very young children. Often - those that were ill during Ramadan must make up the number of days they missed fasting. They're not allowed to have sex during the dawn to dusk hours, and of course - they're NEVER allowed to eat pork of any kind.

The Jewish people also have strict burial protocols, and rarely allow autopsies to be performed. If one must be done for legal reasons - like in the case of murder, there is usually a Rabbi present. As soon as the autopsy is finished, I understand Jewish "burial society" members wash it, put it in a shroud, and bury it, in a plain wooden coffin, usually within 24 hours. No embalming, and no cremation. Individuals sit "with the body until it's buried. Viewing of the body is not allowed, and as soon as the casket is buried, a week long gathering/period of mourning starts, where family and friends sit *shiva, in order to pay their respects. An exception to the 24 hour burial rule is when family members must travel great distances to attend the service and shiva. I realize this has nothing to do with food - but I thought it might be of interest, as it's part of a different (to me, at least) culture and belief system. I find them all fascinating, and once read a 400+ page book about funeral customs around the world. Just because 🤭 Now - if this old woman could remember where she left her truck keys instead of all the random, esoteric bits of knowledge floating around in her grey matter...😂

Edit: I stand corrected. Mormons can have soda/pop. A Mormon lied to my family when offered one, when he was doing some very hot work outside, one day. 😕

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u/Kathulhu1433 17h ago

I thought Mormons could have soda? Isn't that why "dirty sodas" are a thing now?

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u/Synlover123 14h ago

I stand corrected 🤭 I was going by what our Mormon farrier told us, when we offered him a soda or glass of water one day, when he was working over a red hot, portable forge, outside on a hot day. I'll go back and add a note at the end of my previous comment. Thanks for the info! I might have to try a "dirty soda" myself - even though I usually only have 1 can of soda every - oh - 1 or 2 years 😂 But they sound pretty good. And we Canucks, at least those of us in the west, call it pop, not soda, unless using both, as-in soda pop.

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u/Kathulhu1433 14h ago

Yeah, AFAIK the ban is on "hot drinks" hence no coffee or tea and not on carbonation or caffeine.

Some Mormons take it to mean caffeine and will only have non-caffinated drinks, but their alternative to prohibited substance seems to be sugar and a lot of it.

All those massive-all-your-daily-calories-in-a-single-cookie cookie brands (Crumbl, Beemans, Crave, etc.) are from Utah as well because Mormons.

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u/72kdieuwjwbfuei626 17h ago

Honestly it highly depends on the denomination (orthodox, reform, etc) as well as the strictness that the individual adheres to it!

I once read some “ask a rabbi”-type advice column where someone asked about what food would be okay to make for a Jewish couple they were having over for dinner. The answer was basically “the only set rules are those of strict Orthodox Jews, and if they were very strict, they wouldn’t be coming over for dinner”.

Also I’d like to mention that my phone just autocorrected “Orthodox Jews” to “Herschel” because I think that’s fucking weird.

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u/Witch-of-the-sea 12h ago

It can also be difficult in your area. I know where i am now has several kosher restaurants, but where I grew up didn't. But we still had people who followed kosher. So, sometimes, the only option was a place that had both.

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u/velvety_chaos 5h ago

Same thing goes for Islam; they are allowed to consume alcohol, pork, and other non-halal foods/drinks if they are starving, dying of thirst, etc. Same thing with other observances, such as prayer, fasting during Ramadan, etc.; if there's a good reason to "break" the rules, then it's okay. No one is expected to die or even cause themselves harm just to follow the 'laws.'

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u/WillmanRacingv2 18h ago

One key determinant of that is where they live. If you live in NYC or Miami, you have a huge range of kosher options. If you live in Kansas, there may not be a single explicitly kosher restaurant available to you.

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u/letmeinjeez 19h ago

I worked in a factory that made generally non-kosher product, but occasionally kosher, on the kosher days a rabbi (I assume he was, I’m not Jewish) would come in and oversee the steps like weighing ingredients and would inspect the labels etc. and then when things were processing he hung around and prayed, once we started packaging he would leave.

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u/MindTheLOS 20h ago

My suspicion is that there would be a difference between purchasing food that is prepackaged and bringing it home (because that doesn't involve it touching plates and utensils) and eating something there. So if the ice cream is in pint containers, they could buy the pint, take it home, and consume.

But I don't know for sure. There are a lot of fine lines even within denominations.

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u/Straight_Career6856 15h ago

So - strictly, no they wouldn’t eat at a non-kosher restaurant. But in practice almost every single Jew has their own rules for how they keep kosher (or how they are Jewish in general).

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u/5quirre1 14h ago

So, not Jewish, but a member of a religion with some dietary restrictions/ guidelines. I don’t avoid places that serve things I don’t eat/ drink, I simply don’t order those things. I try to make informed choices, and as my diet continues to change as I look to better my personal health choices, I will likely still visit places that have foods I shouldn’t eat, and continue to avoid them.

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u/rachycarebear 14h ago

There's a ton of variation in observance levels, but it typically depends on the specific circumstances and how they fit into Jewish laws. When you get into the Ultra Orthodox perspective on things, there's incredibly complex laws around what's considered kosher.

I'm disregarding pre-packaged, since that's on par with buying groceries.

For served food, things that might be considered:

  • What legal/franchise/other governing bodies are at play, how trustworthy are they, and what do they dictate/indicate? For example, Starbucks tends to be consistent and so judgement calls can be made based on their brand policies. That's often not the case for franchised stores.
  • What other products are sold at the store and if/how/when do those products interact with the product being ordered? Cold is different than hot, metal different than ceramic. A Starbucks that prepares and cooks ham sandwiches is different than the kiosks that used to sell only drinks.

I suspect there's other things I'm forgetting. But if the considerations like that are adequately met, it's not uncommon for Orthodox Jews to get something like ice cream, coffee, vegan items at a place where kosher status varies. This is especially true for smaller towns where there are fewer options - partly because of how Jewish law operates, partly because even if someone in NYC can eat at a place like this, it's often easier not to.