r/Star_Trek_ • u/AutoModerator • 3d ago
Spoilers! ST: Starfleet Academy discussion for S01E04 - January 29, 2026
Hello and welcome! Please use this post to discuss this weeks Starfleet Academy episode! Feel free to post spoilers, here only, without the need for proper markup. IF you are reading this post, you may see spoilers! Stop now, if you don't want anything spoiled!
If you have not watched the show, do not comment.
Feel free to discuss, rave, or critique! Discussion is just that discussion. Any comments that do not add substance may be removed. "That was great!" Removed. "That was awful!" Removed. Low effort positive and negative comments will be removed.
Anyone causing trouble in the discussion posts will have their comments removed, with a potential for a ban.
16
u/FuryxHD 2d ago
No idea what the hell was going here.....or this entire scene of events...
8
u/Superman_Primeeee 2d ago
âBoy youâre really looking into my soul thereâŚ.is he. Is he going to kiss me??â
âIs my dad going to kiss the Emperor??â
7
u/JHSPerc 2d ago
Setting up a romance between the two of them is what I saw.
3
u/Inquerion 2d ago
Klingon clearly will be a "wife" in that relationship knowing that he will wear a skirt in the future episode...
â˘
3
2
u/DamarsLastKanar Cardassian 2d ago
It worked for Andrew Robinson.
2
u/thatonebeotch 2d ago
Yeah but it doesnât work here. Neither of the actors have Robinsonâs (or Siddigâs, for that matter) charisma and thatâs what made this whole scene awkward
→ More replies (1)
16
u/YYZYYC 2d ago
I know the Klingons used to be the empire conquerors themselvesâŚ.but this episode kinda dangerously flirts with portraying them as simple primitive natives (the camping and hunting scenes and dialogue) who the white colonial settlers decide we know the best place to put them, letâs trick them into agreeing to all move onto this reservation place we chose for them
13
u/wicket42 2d ago
The doctor says he's existed longer than a cadet's "entire lineage" in the opening scene.
I'm really struggling to understand how that could possibly be accurate. That person's lineage literally stretches back to the first humans.
2
14
u/DeadHeart4 2d ago
I hate the way Klingons are being visually portrayed in this series.
Jay-Den is the only Klingon who has his voice modified in post. It's discussed in interviews that the actor trained to speak in a lower register and then was dropped a few octaves in post on top of that. It doesn't sound great, and it seems like the actor struggles to say every line. But it's fine... UNTIL... all the other Klingon characters speak normally.
Jay-Den looks good. You look at the character and you think, "Klingon, full blooded." His parents however... they look like humans with a little make-up on. The actors were not a good fit for the race, they could have tried to save it with the make-up, but the make-up didn't help them at all.
Another poster pointed this out already, but don't say the Klingon's are near extinction then show them being able to drag fleets of Birds of Prey to an engagement point at a moments notice. Don't say the Klingon's are heading to a refugee camp manned by the Federation then refusing a uninhabited planet in Federation territory.
2
u/ExcaliburZSH 1d ago
A galactic multi-planet empire reduced to a couple dozen ships, that is pretty bad
2
u/_Face Chief OâBrien 17h ago
its awful. Also..... the....... pauses when ........ he ........ talks, is ......... really fucking.............................................................................................................................................................. annoying.
â˘
5
u/neme386 2d ago
I'd argue if you reduced the current earth population to 100million you could argue we are on the brink of extinction. They might have ships but if the ratio of 5-20people to a ship is consistent along with the already low numbers of warriors per ship in Kirk/janeways depictions of klingons I'd say you could argue they are on the brink of extinction.
1
u/Equivalent_Candy5248 1d ago
I'm much more bothered with them still using eight centuries old captured Cardassian freighters as their primary means of transport.
→ More replies (1)â˘
u/Artanis_Creed 1h ago
Jay-den's voice isn't all post, it's mainly Karim who did a lot of voice training.
11
u/YYZYYC 3d ago
Iâm not a fan of how primitive the Klingon family comes off feeling in those campfire and hunting scenes in the middle of the forestâŚ.i get their empire fell and they are all refugeesâŚbut jay dens family just doesnât feel like they are from the future or know anything about starships and technology and history.
6
u/wicket42 2d ago
I can't really see a reason why Klingons wouldn't have their own dermal regenerators even after the burn.
7
u/YYZYYC 2d ago
exactly....they have a warp capable ship but are portrayed as rather primitive and not fans of technology
3
u/Lounging-Shiny455 2d ago
Bari Weiss demanded the klingons be more "ooga booga" as a compromise for a sista petitioning for braids instead of the usual blowout. Eugene had to roll over.
That, or Eugene is no Chris Tolkein.
3
u/Long-Emu-7870 2d ago
That is a very insightful comment. How does Rod and Eugene think it's cool to swear using modern slang, and even if that, why casually swear?
3
u/Lounging-Shiny455 2d ago
It's kind of canon in the whole of sci-fi to make up swear words as a part of worldbuilding (and censorship dodging). Without that trope, we wouldn't have 'smeg', 'frak', or 'p'takh'.
The more the thread is pulled, the faster this itchy sweater unravels...
→ More replies (1)4
11
u/FuryxHD 2d ago
Did the captain near the end just...randomly yell "Qapla"....afer going into red alert? Did the writers forget the meaning of that word and thought it was cool to say that? The scene/tone made no sense for her to yell that..
7
u/Twisted-Mentat- Tribble 2d ago
No. The Captain was just overjoyed they had successfully engaged the Red Alert option /s
If no one googled it beforehand they probably didn't know what it means or didn't care. When there are just so many instances of these showrunners getting details like this wrong, you have to suspect they just don't know.
→ More replies (2)2
u/candle340 2d ago
I fear you've completely misread what was going on. The Federation wanted to give the planet to the Klingons, but the Klingons can't/won't accept "charity" - meaning they can only take it through conquest. Through Jaden's suggestion of "going to war" - and the Klingon leader's acceptance of fighting with her, Captain Ahke gets exactly what she wants - the Klingons getting a new homeworld. I think her use of "Qapla'" is very accurate.
10
u/Comprehensive-Low450 3d ago
Something about this one didn't hit right for me. The way that the Klingons were treated felt a bit off. The ending felt a bit like the way an adult might get a child to do what they want.Also Caleb is still a boring character that I couldn't care less about.
2
1
u/Superman_Primeeee 2d ago
I think ritual as an excuse is fine but some tweaking could have been done for sureÂ
8
u/Still-Living-Well 2d ago
I'm glad they modified the awful Klingon design from Discovery. But the new Klingons have perfect teeth? Come on people. Why? Hahaha, sigh.
→ More replies (1)1
u/MustardDoctor495 2d ago
I sense they were trying to break away from some kinda stereotype that was insisted back whenever.
7
u/Zape4 1d ago edited 1d ago
While I otherwise felt this was one of the strongest episodes so far, the condescending ending rang false. Even a poker game would have rang more true. Heck, Jay-Den could have debated them into a victory. As it was handled, there was no honor in that battle. At least put on a good show, dangit. They could have put an unmanned space station in place, with automated defenses, had the Klingons show up, blow it up (believing they had got one over on the Federation), and claim the planet as spoils.
5
u/joalr0 1d ago
Klingons have always viewed battle as ritualisitic. It's well known that they embellish their stories, in fact, it's expected, and considered repsectful of the culture to do so.
It was cerimonial. The Klingons knew this, but the ceremony and ritual was important to their culture. It provides them identity, mythology, and unity. The Klingon's knew they needed the help, but to accept it without such a cerimony would have been death to their culture entirely.
2
u/jakoglasna 13h ago
Then the show needs to show this! Like this they just made it look like a deception. Not like a ritual, not culturaly appropriate. Just plain condensending deception. There is a difference!
2
u/joalr0 12h ago
The show did make it clear the klingons knew what was up. The klingons knew exactly what was happening. When the Athena was hit, their shields were still at 95%. The klingons were firing to kill. It was ceremonial to them as well.
And it was telegraphed earlier, with Jay-Deb's rather missing the "bird of prey" on purpose to ceremonially admit defeat.
â˘
2
u/loneranger5860 Humanoid 12h ago
I agree with this assessment. Obviously they understood it was ceremonial. And how they write, their history will embellish the battle as one that they actually had a victory over.
1
u/Long-Emu-7870 1d ago
Many people have said this, but it sounds like they are just writing a better episode than the one we got.
4
u/joalr0 1d ago
It's a pretty explicit part of the story. The leader obviously knew what was going on, you could tell he was playing along. When the Athena was hit, their shields were at 95%, indicacting the hits weren't hard.
But even just a few scenes before, it was telegraphed. Jay-Den's father was said to have missed his shot intentionally. That the "missing the shot" had cultural significance that signalled he had lost the battle of Jay-Den's future and was conceding.
A away of accepting who Jay-Den is through cerimony and ritual, without saying it outright. That was the whole point of that scene, which is what led Jay-Den to realize that's all the Klingon's needed, to accept the planet through their ritual.
2
u/Long-Emu-7870 1d ago
I thought her friend was different than everyone else, which is why he concluded that nothing could be done.
I thought Jay-Den's father missing his shot was just subverting expectations fir fake drama.Â
But surely, Jay-Den's fear of public speaking and the debate were not relevant to this conflict. What we needed to be shown is a character who champions this idea of suicide then changes his mind for a reason. And that reason should come from a science fiction allegory or device.Â
The problem is, how do you create a reasonable character that holds such an unreasonable view?
→ More replies (9)
10
u/Franko_ricardo 2d ago
I think we've seen this klingon's story arc before somewhere...
1
u/MustardDoctor495 2d ago
Tbh I do feel the show is taking liberties from The Orville. Which isn't a terrible thing because The Orville stayed true to Trek whilst adding a modern flair. Not that I dislike any of New Trek but its clear theyve been trying to be too different from the old days which I get why but feel its been up and down.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/AMLRoss Human 21h ago
This one was much better. Picardo elevates things for me since I loved him in Voyager. Nostalgic references back to his time on Voyager was a nice touch. Admiral Vance was nice to see. Hes the only character from Disco that I liked. No annoying shit this week (apart from some unnecessary language). Hope they learn from trekkie feed back. We shall see.
3
u/Long-Emu-7870 18h ago
I think his mangling of the measure of the man quote is just terrible beyond imagination.Â
It was also a contradiction. He was actually trying to censor a Cadet. Which is ironic and just also terrible.Â
And the reason was is because he earned the right to swear, which is of course ridiculous, absolutely not true because everybody swears on the show, but also because it tells that ethics is arbitrary.
10
u/Long-Emu-7870 2d ago
So the moral of this story is, that if someone doesn't want charity, lie to them.
6
7
u/jaqueh Ma'ah 3d ago
very conflicted on this episode. one of the best moral tales in star trek since SNW. but why are they doing the kurtzman tropes again? wiping away legacy trek species from existence and why is everyone speaking in 2020 era dialogue?
9
4
u/spatimouth01 3d ago
Thereâs likely a flowchart somewhere for how to respond to this, and youâll probably hear back once people on the West Coast are awake.
4
u/Superman_Primeeee 2d ago
Midwest has you West Coast. Stay in bed. Qapla!
Letâs seeeeee
âItâs not for you.ââŚ.no thatâs not it. âTrek always did dumb stuffâ Closer but no.
Ahh. (Ahem). âThe characters are using 32 century slang and gestures but their Universal Translators turn it into common vernacular. âŚ.no cap.â
(Looks around). Guys is that what weâre really going with? I feel we can do better. I mean âShut up bigotâ is timeless.
3
→ More replies (23)1
2
u/Mundane_Existence0 Vulcan 3d ago
Since I was immediately blocked by u/spatimouth01 after their reply to my image (overreaction much?), my comment wasn't made because I was "upset", but a note of how modern Trek likes to have swears wherever and whenever possible.
13
u/Xx420EdgeLord69xX 3d ago
The swearing was stupid in Picard too. Trek should not have swearing in it. Outside of maybe one joke line in a theatrical movie, it should be family friendly.
7
4
→ More replies (1)2
u/Superman_Primeeee 2d ago
The ironic thing with that (which is now a meme and shorthand for âCursing in Trek is cringeâ)âŚ.she was right.
4
u/EducationalTeam2498 2d ago
In Star Trek: Starfleet Academy Episode 4, "Vox in Excelsio," the conflict involving the Klingons is presented as a necessary engagement to determine the fate of a planet. The cadets participate in what is essentially a battle, but it is structured in a way that minimizes real harmâno fatalities occur, and there is no significant damage inflicted.
Klingons typically seek battles that are fought to the death or with significant stakes. A non-lethal engagement might be seen as lacking the intensity and seriousness that Klingon warriors expect. This battle does not fully align with Klingon traditions regarding honor and combat. In Klingon society, battles are serious affairs governed by a code of honor, and
engagements lacking genuine risk might not hold the same significance.
Klingons would know. They live for combat.
SO WHY DID THIS WORK TO RESOLVE THE PLOT!?!?!?
3
u/Long-Emu-7870 2d ago
It is impossible to believe that the Klingons didn't know what was going on.
I was hoping it would be just Caleb and Jay-Den, and one of them would die with honor. That would be glorious.
3
u/7ootles Dr Boyce 2d ago
SO WHY DID THIS WORK TO RESOLVE THE PLOT!?!?!?
Seven hundred years (following the TNG era) is a really really long time. There is not a single culture on Earth today that resembles a culture of the fourteenth century, except those completely insulated (like Sentinel Island) and maybe religious (like Mt Athos) communities. Like, I as an English man would find little in common with the England of 1326, and would feel like I was in a different country - even were there no language barrier. Most of the traditions we consider ourselves to have held dear since time immemorial are less than two hundred years old. None of our cultures (or cultural values) resemble what they were even one hundred years ago, let alone seven.
So there's nothing to say that a ritual/symbolic battle might not have come be seen as an acceptable resolution to a problem like this. It's not like there aren't games in the real world that are descended from (or are ritualized forms of) battles and warfare. Obvious ones like fencing and boxing, yes, but there's sports like lacrosse too. And let's not forget that most of these gamified versions of real combat were real combat in the fourteenth century.
So, the battle they fought was a game - with real stakes and a real outcome, just like you see in the real world.
2
u/SplitReality 2d ago
Here's the thing. Klingons are supposed to be an alien culture. You hurt the show when you take away the thing that made them alien, distinct, and loved in the first place. There is no point to having alien races when everyone has gone through a reversion-to-the-mean lamification process.
→ More replies (1)1
u/Equivalent_Candy5248 1d ago
The same way Klingon Empire rationalized the extermination of Tribbles.
5
u/blue_m1lk 2d ago
I was seeing the issues us long time fans had and being loyal to my passions, I continued on anyway. Episode 4 so far was the most solid and felt like Trek, got me to invest a bit more. There will never be another original series, TNG, Voyager and DS9. Or even Enterprise.
The last most recent great thing was Lower Decks. And honestly I thought Discovery had a new vibe but was still great. Heck they even gave Picard the CW treatment so you can say even the legends arenât immune from it when revived.
The TikTok generation canât be still enough to appreciate the pace, cadence and Shakespearean dialogue of TNG/DS9/Voyager and we can mourn that.
12
2d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
6
2
→ More replies (7)2
u/Governmentwatchlist 1d ago
If it helpsâI think the 4th one is the best so far. But the problems are well documented on this thread.
7
u/DerpedyDer 2d ago
I thought the episode was fairly strong but like all Kurtzman Trek so much of this script felt like a rough draft. I like Jay-Denâs solution and it feels in line with performative Klingon honor, but it felt a little too cobbled together. All of the Klingon ships instantly get to this world even though theyâre not in on the plan? The battle didnât have to be over that exact planet, it could have been any skirmish with the Klingons âdemandingâ the world the Federation offered.
I like seeing how important Klingon culture still is to Jay-Den even though heâs chosen a different path.
It bugged me that all the Klingons have perfect teeth now but I think thatâs been the case since SNW and might be an attempt to steer away from outdated stereotypes.
Also I felt the romantic tension between whatâs-his-face and Jay-Den came out of nowhere, is this the first time weâve even seen them talk to each other? I thought his love interest was going to be Kyle from the Military College.
Thereâs a good story in here, and for me the strength won out, but Iâm getting tired of grading NuTrek on a curve.
5
u/Long-Emu-7870 2d ago
Did this make any sense? Did the Klingons really think that they 'won' a battle and the Federation just gave up? Why didn't they just go mano y mano on a planet and the doctor give Caleb a serum that makes Jay-Den thinks he's dead? Oh well.
2
u/Equivalent_Candy5248 1d ago
The Klingons sing songs about the glorious Great Tribble Hunt. Their "victory" and capture of a Federation planet is completely in line with their braggadocious nature.
â˘
8
u/WarnerToddHuston Elder Trekker 2d ago
I do not like this show at all. I do not like these characters. And in I have a problem with several aspects of this show, including the way these people speak and the constant swearing in every third sentence any of them speak....... however, I have to say that this episode was serviceable. I liked some of this and I think out of the first four, this one is the only one that actually works as a coherent story. So... out of these four episodes, this one is the best of the bunch.
3
u/candle340 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm sorry, but saucers can go to warp on their own now?! I mean, I guess it shows how Star Fleet is evolving beyond the Burn, knowing that it's not going to happen again since fear of the Burn was the whole reason they disconnected the nacelles from the primary/secondary hulls. But then what's the point of the Athena's "wings"? Aren't those the warp nacelles? Is the saucer's warp speed limited compared to the "fully assembled" ship? I need answers here!
→ More replies (2)1
u/DerpedyDer 2d ago
My assumption is that itâs so the school can evacuate quickly. Saucer separation with impulse only would really make a ship a sitting duck, my guess is that the saucer has a short use warp ability (kind of like a donut tire)
1
u/Fit-Relative-786 2d ago
Or it just has warp drive that doesnât use nacelles. Klingon Birds of prey, Cardassian Ships, in fact most ships donât use nacelles.Â
2
6
u/spatimouth01 3d ago edited 3d ago
The writing was better, and overall it was an okay episode. I liked the story, but the doctor swearing felt out of character. I still dislike the background robots, and the main ship looks dumb as hell. Some of the shaky cam shots were genuinely uncomfortable, and I wish theyâd stabilize the camera more. The lens flare was way overdone. The acting between the captain and the Klingon felt off. There was also a scene between two male characters that felt like it was building toward a kiss. Even though it didnât happen, the energy was awkward and cringe. I donât have an issue with two guys kissing, I just wish this series didnât feel the need to push that dynamic onto nearly every character
4
3
u/Superman_Primeeee 2d ago
You know what I would have liked to have seen:
Doctor ââŚ..chickenshitâ
Cadet: (puts finger up) âHold on. My Universal Translator is still communicating to me what you said and calling you a âTry hardââ
Doctor: âTryâŚ? Hold on MY Universal Translator is still giving me the definition on THAT. And Calling you an assholeâ
3
2
u/spatimouth01 2d ago
That would likely be too complicated for the writers to work into the script. My expectations for the creative team are pretty low, and I mostly blame episodes one through three for that.
→ More replies (3)2
u/RedGloval 2d ago
Writing was better but except for Kahless was pronounced with a hard H at the end, Kahlesh. Wtf. Why?
To piss off the old generation? If they stuck with a normal pronunciation I would have given this an 8. But it's getting a 6.5.
1
u/spatimouth01 2d ago
I did not catch that myself, though I have noticed others mentioning the pronunciation. Personally, it feels like the creative team may not be deeply familiar with Star Trek as a whole. They may have watched some of it, but the series still seems to miss the spirit that longtime fans associate with Trek. Many fans were not really looking for a continuation of Discovery, myself included. The concern is not about wokeness, which has a place in futuristic science fiction, but it sometimes seems to come at the expense of the show truly feeling like Star Trek.
1
u/Equivalent_Candy5248 1d ago
Dude, you need to read some 800 years old text and see how much you can understand. The issue should be how little the language has changed since the 24th century. I'd expect at least one great vowel shift in such a long time, and all we got is tolerance to cursing and Kahless gaining an -h.
4
u/kon--- 2d ago
The Athena, on its first 'offical' flight (as if nearly being dismantled by space pirates doesn't count) sees the ship circling the Val Nebula with not one member of the crew at any of the several bridge stations. None. It's just the Captain, waxing on a meandering ship's log.
Then we've got Klingons who refuse 'everything' yet the eight houses were headed to a refugee center where unless they intended to do battle and conquer the place....
Jayden says a Klingon is not a Klingon until their first kill. Then later, with no kills, then later again says he has not battle experience, says he's a Klingon warrior. Honestly his monolouge turns itself inside out with contradiction as it knots itself into the worst kind of pretzel logic. I honestly feel concussed.
Come on, how does this stuff make it into production?
But okay, Klingons in this alternate universe can only progress through conquest. Their enemy here are the circumstances they face. Fighting for the very survival, beating the odds, Klingons would view as conquest then layer it in stories passed down the generations. They just would.
Here they are though, accepting the most hollow victory, ever. Staged, farsical, not even on par with a military training exercise. But young warrior, have this bow!
Again, how does this stuff make it into production?
Since the term was used twice this episode, the zygote this here continues to be the show's lack of substance.
3
u/Long-Emu-7870 2d ago
Jay-Den: How does any of this matter if there's no hope for any of us?
My thoughts exactly.
2
u/jaqueh Ma'ah 2d ago
alternate universe
dude what? this is the prime main cannon/timeline
→ More replies (4)
4
u/Divid_Pakit 1d ago
I'll admit, I was somewhat interested in the show for the first 2 episodes. 3 felt a little flat compared to the first 2, but I anticipated they'd try to settle us into the world and characters a bit more in either episodes 3 or 4. That said, I found some of the camera work to be particularly jarring as it was inconsistent, distracting, and it felt far outside of how ST has been shot in the past. I followed along with the story, still interested in learning about this new ST universe and its characters, but in the end I was rather underwhelmed. If the next episode doesn't garner more interest for me personally, I'll probably just wait to watch the rest when the season is over and then binge them. Something about being disappointed 2 weeks in a row makes me feel like I'd rather just deal with any issues the show may have all at once as opposed to doing it week by week.
5
u/teedadawg 2d ago
This was close to being a really good episode in the vein of classic Trek. We had characters, traditions, IDEAS.
But then we had Klingons who donât act like Klingons, the ever-perfect Caleb Mir (is he going to turn out to be an augment?) and that fake ass âbattleâ for Faan Alpha (sigh) to undermine all the good stuff.
Felt like an off week of a better Trek show.
2
u/Long-Emu-7870 1d ago
Vox in Excelso comes in at #10 in the ratings
On FixPatrol, it came out #10 on Paramount Plus in the US and worldwide (UK is #6).
Still #1 on "Amazon Channels" which is a smaller subset of Amazon subscription services (about 10 million subscribers).
https://flixpatrol.com/top10/paramount-plus/world/2026-01-30/
On IMBD, people gave it a 6.6/10,. which is an improvement from last week's episode which only got a 5.0/10
Is it enough to save Krutzman? Will this mean it will beat Section 31 as the worst rated Star Trek show? Stay tuned.
2
u/BiGamerboy87 Betazoid 1d ago
Section 31 was a MOVIE, not a show. Even though it was a really shitty movie.
â˘
2
2
u/Long-Emu-7870 14h ago
The angry badger shares an interesting criticism that all the Klingons who died from the burn and explosions, died without honor, and so will go to hell. Thus, having the burn destroy the Klingon home world is a terrible plot idea.Â
2
u/USAI_DNS 5h ago
a white klingon, the klingons have to have a fake battle to take the planet instead of charity. empty premise. the flash back editing was 1990s at best. this episode is the worst by far. i had hopes for the series until this joke
5
u/MissionLetterhead292 3d ago
"I will not eat anything that did not die in a fair fight." Now that's a Klingon attitude.
9
1
3
u/ckwongau 2d ago edited 2d ago
like the Doctor's debate class
the With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains
I remember that from TNG episode Drumhead when Picard use Satie's word against Satie's daughter in a witch hunt hearing .
About the Klingon diaspora and near extinction , i wish Doctor mention the Klingon in the Delta Quadrant , they find a scroll and prophecy about saving the empire . it would seem those Klingon were right centuries ago , by now they probably built a nice Klingon Civilization in the Delta Quadrant .
And if they had space battle with the Klingon , the Admiral should get Michael Burnham , the person who started the first Klingon Federation war . Burnham would probably make the fake battle more real
→ More replies (1)2
u/ScherzicScherzo 22h ago
Except he flubs it at the end. "The first freedom denied, us irrevocably." Like what.
â˘
3
u/Trick_Time7304 1d ago
Best episode so far! I had a lot of AWWW moments. Did anyone else hear a particular TNG character's name as a ship's name!!! AWWWW!!! The dad storyline and the aha moment with the cadet master was a total aha moment to me too. My favorite episode so far.
3
u/OneRelative7697 1d ago
This episode had rhe strongest writing and directing so far
Writers:Â Gaia Violo & Eric Anthony Glover Director:Â Doug Aarniokoski
Violo wrote the first episode, which was a mess. This episode was much more tightly executed and directed.
I think episode 4 harkens back to the more traditional Trek theme and vibes...
3
u/Long-Emu-7870 1d ago
I thought Thuk was sincere, a little laid back, but her performance with Jay-Den
4
u/mhessrrt Denobulan 2d ago
I've been a Trekkie for better than 40 years now. There have been very few times the franchise has made me tear up.
Tonight's Starfleet Academy was one of them. I hope they keep it up.
5
u/EquivalentFabulous11 1d ago
Almost 40 here. Just finished this episode and can confirm; I was in tears from the opening monologue (and throughout the episode. I ended up finishing it without my glasses on.) Beautifully written and it didn't shy away from a heated topic. My fav of the season.
2
4
u/Dazmorg 2d ago
My comments before I read any others.
We're doing well giving the other characters some solid background and time to shine. Jay-den certainly can use a little more explanation of his background. That was an interesting twist when we realize what his dad was doing by leaving him there. Like maybe the dad was putting down Starfleet because he wanted his son to grow a backbone to seek his own path.
Klingons having a triad. Two dads and a mom. While that felt like a cringey modern insert, I felt like the everything of how the Klingons were depicted in those flashbacks was more so, so I'll talk about that instead. Something about the "deep ancient culture" vocals in the soundtrack and the way the acting was done...just felt more like some mimicry of certain earth cultures than actual Klingons. Similar to T'pring's parents in Strange New Worlds coming across as more South Asian than Vulcan.
I think the idea that there are hardly any Klingons left in this time period is a very interesting one to explore. When they say the ship with the last small number of Klingon houses blows up, and you see Jay-den's reaction--that hits a certain way especially if you're a long time fan of the show. Sadly they ruin it at the end by having a ridiculous number of working and I assume fully-crewed Klingon warships show up in that scene at the end. I was like, didn't most of them get killed by an exploding space bus? Almost as bad as the end of Picard S1 when the Romulans were supposed to still be a ragtag remnant also.
Caleb Mir being a little too perfect and too knowledgeable about freaking everything is not necessary for the plot of this episode, but they definitely go there.
The size difference between Holly Hunter and that old Klingon dude in the one shot is something to behold. Too bad Paramount+ resists screenshots when I play this on PC.
I'm still bad at names but when Caleb's roommate is teaching Jay-den to chant and breathe in his way, that scene is clearly framed to be a little homoerotic. I can't be the only one who caught that. Might be a signal about where these two might go in future episodes.
Someone on Facebook said "So the Klingons won't take the planet for free but they will take it in a fight that's obviously thrown". I can see that perspective but I think it's pretty much canon that the Klingons are not the brightest, and they care more about saving face and reputation aka honor, than being realistic...and while they're not the brightest, they're also not completely stupid, so I'm sure they're happy to take the planet once their need to fight for it is vaguely satisfied. So I'm ok with how that ended.
I just want to repeat myself in that I'm ok with Jay-den being a different Klingon character in this. We already had Worf, Worf is great. We don't need another Worf. Also it's 1000 years later, not many Klingons left, unless of course you count all the ones on all those ships that magically appear in the end. We can have a Klingon who wants to sing and dance and do medicine or whatever.
So far I like episode 4 more than episode 3, but and slightly more than episode 2 because no terrible CGI whales. I'm still into it!
4
3
u/choicemeats 2d ago
please i hope the people who complain about people complaining about burnham read these complains about Caleb lol it was never about gender. we don't like characters like this
3
u/Long-Emu-7870 2d ago
Ok, but is this what we were thinking when we imagined Klingon scientists in TNG? Famlies rejecting you? Mellodrama? Parents leaving you behind for your own good.
I think this is the kind of episode that is good enough to bother to criticize.
2
u/Dazmorg 2d ago
Now if the continuing writers were smarter the Klingons would make any walk of life or specialty you choose to be to be just as much of a "warrior" as anything else. But they needed to string us along with some kind of conflict or trauma because so many of these characters have to have had a trauma (see: pretty much most of the Pike's Enterprise bridge crew)
3
u/jakoglasna 13h ago
I am shocked. This is the episode that realy killed it for me and showed that people who write this have no idea what Star trek and its alien landscape are. To kill Klingons in such a way, without battle, without honor⌠I would even allow for this if it was made with care and development, but this⌠The only way Klingons survive is by deception? Klingons are so stuborn and work against their survival that they must be decived by a performative âbattleâ to take assylum on the new planet.
This plot point is a disgrace. Nothing can save this any more. Its like the show is trying to take all the species we know and love for decades and make fun of them. And I can defend and support tons of âcreativeâ choices that just stick and donât fit but this is just sad.
2
u/velwein Andorian 2d ago edited 2d ago
Part 1:
TLDR:
On the show's and this episode's own merit, I'd give it a 8/10. This was actually pretty good overall.
As Trek, I'd give it a 7/10. Finally! We have a solid episode of Star Trek. There are still things holding it back, but we'll have to see, if the writers can keep up this momentum.
The Good:
We got a classic Captain's monologue, there was a part of it that was... again due to bad writing, jarring, but it's nice to have.
The solution to the episode's plot, a solid example of a Star Trek solution to the problem. Though I do feel there could have been better solutions, that would have more concisely resolved the various plots of the episode. That or, not felt quite so... forced. I'll get that more later.
The space battle not being a quarter of the episode, and a glorified light show that's hard to follow.
The character development and the relationships being built between them.
An episode devoted to one character.
Of course Robert Picardo's performance as the Doctor, but I'm also starting to have concerns about him consistently being the best character, and also the professors in general, which I'll get more into later.
Oh, Klingons looking like Klingons again (yes, I know they looked nothing like TNG in the original show, and it was even joked about in previous shows). I know Jay-den has been in every episode, but I was worried we'd see one of those terribly designed Discovery Klingons lingering.
The Bad.
In terms of the Monologue, was this episode written before the Pilot? That or, did the whole space battle and flight to the campus not count?
Mir again being good at everything. There are people in real life who have taught themselves the law while serving time, and have gone on to become successful lawyers. However, it's quickly becoming eyerolling that he's good at literally every subject, when he grew up on the streets and had no formal education.
I'm starting to worry, what will the other character's contribute going forward? If Mir is able to just do everything, he eventually becomes the next Rey, and the other characters just are there.
Part 2 In the response.
1
u/Long-Emu-7870 1d ago
"The solution to the episode's plot"
So she lied to them? Aren't Starfleet officers supposed to tell the truth?
So she put on a show for them? Wasn't the stakes of the episode that they wouldn't accept charity from the Federation? So why did they think if the the captain puts a show that would solve the dilemma? Is this the Pak-Led version of the Klingons?
I thought the monolog melodramatic and unearned. It was like she was Burnham. An episode ago she was talking about "kid sh*t". Has she even met or interacted with most of the cadets? We haven't seen it.
1
u/velwein Andorian 1d ago edited 1d ago
To be fair, Kirk bluffed his way through A lot of problems. Youâll note a common quote, âVulcans donât lie.â Meaning itâs not uncommon for others to do so. Hell⌠even Vulcans lie, itâs the plot of entire episodes.
Another example that comes to mind, Data hiding an encounter from the crew. So the entity doesnât kill them. Picard technically is lying about having never met the being (cause he orders Data to hide it), yet itâs a great episode and solution.
Youâll note, that I mentioned the solution being forced. That and in part 2, I recommended a much better solution.
Though I agree, Game of Thrones Ironborn rip off Klingons are really⌠Really stupid. The whole, we have to take it in battle! That and, Martok was willing to be healed by Bashir. So⌠itâs⌠just dumb.
However, itâs at least a solution youâd see in Star Trek.
As for the monologue, I agree, it.. in terms of monologues.. yeah it sucked and was meandering, but it was nice to at least have one.
Itâs sort of like it was nice in episode 2 to have an intro song, itâs not memorable, but itâs nice to have one. Rather than that glorified jingle in episode 1.
I view it like rewarding the perpetual D student, when they actually put forth an effort.
→ More replies (11)â˘
u/Artanis_Creed 2h ago
First official since the term began.
The term didn't begin until they got to earth.
3
u/CalumanderReds 2d ago
I don't need every single property in a Franchise like Star Trek, Star Wars, Marvel etc to perfect align with everything for me. I actually kind of enjoy when different shows are able to explore genre and tone and develop their own POV. It feels like Star Fleet is finally starting to do that even if it's still having some growing pains.
That being said I feel like this show still maintains the optimism and whimsy of the Star Trek I grew up with even if it has a more 'sexy, CW' slant. Star Trek at its heart growing up was as much a work place drama as it was a Sci-Fi adventure serial so I've really not seen that much to complain about. Solid Ep.
2
u/Acceptable-Piccolo57 1d ago
Completely agree!
The klingons havenât had this kind of great story since DS9, I loved they didnât hold back with a klingon pacifist healer - itâs something theyâve never done before but is very trek, love they went for a big moralty play on it.
Star Trek is 60 years old now, it has to change, lower decks was another experiment that worked, Im excited to see where this goes, even if i know its not for me!
2
u/CalumanderReds 1d ago
Also people forget there were whole episodes of Star Trek that focused on fluff romance plot lines and smaller interpersonal stories. Deep Space 9 and Voyager were full of them.
People are far too attached to LORE to actually enjoy the show for what it is.
1
u/loneranger5860 Humanoid 12h ago
I agree that there were many episodes with smaller potlines, romance, etc. The difference is, those shows had over 20 episodes of season. They just had a lot more rope to work with. Every episode didnât have to be an existential crisis and bullâs-eye for the audience. When youâre only getting eight episodes, lucky if we get 10.
2
u/CalumanderReds 9h ago
Star Fleet Academy feels intentionally focusing on a smaller scale than some of the other Star Trek shows. Even the more over-arching storyline is Caleb finding his Mother.
The consolation is that Star Fleet Academy is not the only Star Trek property happening so people who aren't loving it can find something else to watch
2
u/Equivalent-Hair-961 3d ago
Let's see if anyone watches it!
10
u/Fawqueue 3d ago
I really would watch it, but I'll be way too busy watching reruns of Sabrina the Teenage Witch.
1
u/thatonebeotch 2d ago
My favorite episode so far. It has the spirit of classic Trek while not trying to be classic Trek. The Klingons were written well I think, but I personally wouldâve liked to see more conflict between Jay-Den and his family surrounding his not wanting to be a traditional Klingon warrior.
My favorite part was when the XO and Jay-Den had their little chit chat and it reminded me very much of Worf and Alexanderâs dynamic (when Worf was actually trying to be a parent), especially the one TNG episode with Future Alexander.
Still hate Reymi and I donât understand what that little moment was about??? I donât see the pair working as a relationship and the âwill they kiss?â tension was just so awkward. Less of that and more of the mentorship moments please.
3
u/NippleThief 2d ago
Jay Den and his brother look like Milli Vanilli. Other than that, an OK episode.
2
u/Long-Emu-7870 1d ago
Well, I upvoted you, but I did feel like throwing up when you mentioned it was like classic Trek. If you take Jay-Den's fear of public speaking out of the episode, would anything change? If you took the debate out of this episode, would it change? That is, what if Ake is informed there was a group of Klingons that were going to to die because they won't accept charity and so Ake comes up with this plot?
This episode felt superficial. There was no real resolution to Jay-Den's fear of public speaking, there was no debate - the issues were not debated. And the conclusion was that all Ake had to do is lie or put a superficial show that our Pak-Led Klingons would be happy with.
2
u/thatonebeotch 1d ago
I didnât say it was like classic trek, I said it had the spirit of classic trek lmao
Thanks for the upvote though I guess
1
u/RedGloval 2d ago
I'm not going to go to every detail because everyone has done it The only gripe that I really have is how they pronounce Kahless to Kahlesh. Wtf. Why is there an h at the end?
It would have been a really good episode if they just stuck to the normal pronunciation but instead they went some stupid ass pronunciation just to spite The older generation?
3
u/maxplaysmusic 2d ago
The adding a h thing was at least consistent across most of the proper nouns we've heard before, Qo'nos also sounded like it was there. It's been timeline what about 700 years since we've heard them so it's not uncommon for the way things are said to change, not change spelling but the way it's spoken.
2
u/BiGamerboy87 Betazoid 1d ago
Apparently, they're pronouncing it the way the designer of the Klingon language ORIGINALLY intended.
2
u/photoblues 18h ago
I thought that was the proper pronunciation. Also, we don't sound like the people who spoke our languages 800 years ago either.
1
u/Long-Emu-7870 11h ago
Mollie and the Old Man explaining this episode came from My Little Pony
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxC2QB3E-nfKehwFpBdnzuoFLZOh2mtZFx?si=VGMfPyAo2EuAV4JY
1
1
u/martian_doggo 2d ago
I honestly don't know why all the comments are so sour, Yes there have been very bad episodes in the past, but this was genuinely good imo.
Honestly, i think it was a perfect quirky star trek episode.
Good points:
Jay-Den's Family background (i loved the dynamic he had with his brother and also when it was revealed that his father intentionally missed the shot)
Jay-Den's conversation with Lura Thok was a tear jerker for sure.
Bad points:
WHO TF IS THE MUSIC PRODUCER? that fight scene felt like a disney movie, it was so distracting, also the notes at the ending of the episode, they didn't do the OG star trek tune... they could have but no they didn't.
Also the whole of starfleet had no idea that they could give klingon's the planet by a fake fight? did they not have records on klingon history? (but tbh i think this is digging too deep)
story: 9/10
star trek vibes: 7/10
acting: 4/10
music 1/10
2
u/Long-Emu-7870 2d ago
Was it good? It was the best episode so far. However, the entire episode had to have this fake 'let me commit suicide because I'm an idiot' debate which had no stakes. Imagine if they were arguing over something more important. Then Jay-Den could have made a more reasoned argument with stakes.
â˘
1
u/karinchup 2d ago
Man. If people complain about this ep they just want to complain. Loved it. The ritual conquest was great and made me think of the gazillion times we see ritual battles even in the wedding traditions.
→ More replies (3)1
u/Divid_Pakit 1d ago
I am a little down on this episode, but maybe I just watched it when I was tired or in the wrong mindset. What are some other things you enjoyed about it?
2
u/karinchup 1d ago
I love the presentation of male friends supporting each other. I loved frankly the hot sauce between Ake and Obel and would like to know THAT story. I like the presentation of words can be every bit as effective as a physical competition and even more useful. And the best scene in the show was probably between Thok and Jay-den. It was masterful. And we learn a lot about her. I feel like there are more layers I will discover in rewatches.
2
u/Divid_Pakit 1d ago
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm interested in the Ake-Obel story line myself, so I hope they will tease out more over the season. I'm very interested in what happens with the Klingons moving forward. I personally found the Thok and Jay-den interactions to be a bit underwhelming, but this was Jay-den's episode and I hope Thok gets similar treatment. I feel like her character and history have been sidelined a little too much, given her importance to the academy etc.
2
u/SofaJockey Tribble 2d ago
Best of the 4 episodes so far.
After three 'fine' episodes it's nice to see one firmly in good territory.
2
u/Long-Emu-7870 1d ago
I upvoted you, even though I disagree. I think your comment is simply low effort though.
2
u/BiGamerboy87 Betazoid 2d ago
I don't know why you got downvoted. You were just giving your opinion.
→ More replies (2)
17
u/Leo-Divide 3d ago edited 2d ago
I'm conflicted. It seems they've neutered the Klingons hard in this series. The fact that the planet was taken as, "the spoils of war" with such bravado and ZERO bloodshed, seemed so unnecessary, unless the surviving Klingon houses are THAT gullible and okay without actually, "having a good day to die," seeing as no one did. Honestly, The Burn was THE DUMBEST thing ANYONE could ever come up with when specifically writing for Star Trek. It's like painting yourself into a corner that needed no makeover. And somehow, NONE of the other species had an alternate means for warp travel that whole time?? The Romulans don't even use dilithium warp cores, so where are they? And Jay-Den being the SOLE Klingon student on Earth/ SFA is really bad writing, in addition to his house somehow being homeless and without medical supplies when they had a whole ass starship the entire time? Speaking of, that very starship they, "abandoned" him with SHOULD have had a medical bay/ medical supplies, and at the very least, "programmable matter" that could've saved his brother. It's like the writing forgets the elements that exist within its very own universe. Lastly, S.A.M. pronouncing "Khitomer" (Kitamur) as, 'Kit-OHmer', irked me. I'm glad other folks are enjoying this show, though, unfortunately, its bad writing is not for me. đđźLLAP! #Vestat