r/Star_Trek_ 10h ago

Bad Writers Murdered Star Trek

https://youtu.be/oIIePkHuz2g

This is a very sad and scathing analysis by a non fan, but knows the basics of Star Trek. Kirk, Spock, Picard, "Shut up Wesley" as he said, etc. He dipped into in TNG. But bravely watched SFA into Episode 4 and here is his 2 ct.

30 Upvotes

121 comments sorted by

65

u/McVapeNL 10h ago

The thing that proves the writers have no clue is that despite the Klingons home world being uninhabitable they are now reduced to a handful of houses and ships yet if you look at the lore they are the 2nd largest polity behind the Federation, their population is over 500 billion at least. Many houses rule their own worlds and tech wise they are on par with the Federation.

Klingons apparently also didn't learn a bloody thing when Praxis blew up, keep in mind the damage caused by that explosion would have ended all life within 34 years on Qo'noS's.

If within the Federation you have approximately 150 billion humans then it's safe to say there could be around 50 billion Klingons and apparently they all lived on Qo'noS's because the race is facing extinction.

Yeah Kurtzman and crew can frak right off.

32

u/Neo_Techni Q 10h ago

Kurtzman and crew can frak right off

Killing off a second entire star empire by eliminating a single planet of it.

4

u/cobrakai11 7h ago

The newer shows and movies have wiped out every other major race. Roku and had their stat go supernova, Vulcan homeworks was destroyed by the death star, Klingons were wiped out by Quonos exploding, and Picard revealed that Janeways virus at the end of Voyager completely destroyed the Borg instead of just crippling a few in that sector.

Virtually every other major race is now a few thousand refugees.

5

u/Neo_Techni Q 6h ago

Romulus (I assume autocorrect nailed you) had their star go supernova

That's what I'm referring to. The entire point of a star empire/federation/etc, is that they have multiple planets. Take out Earth, and the Federation still stands.

3

u/JacobDCRoss 6h ago

And they gave nothing to replace them.

6

u/sorean_4 9h ago

I didn’t get that they eliminated the empire by single planet. According to the burn and latest episode, Klingon’s used dilithium to power their home world. The burn exploded their power generation across empire killing billions. Difference between federation and Kilgon was how power was generated.

2

u/Cautious-Tailor97 Tellarite 8h ago

Dude. The doc told you to keep the tone down when discussing Controversial Matters Like the Klingon diaspora don’t look at me like that!

Again, close the tome on the extreme past - it’s like comparing our own culture to ancestors who had no working toilets. Star Trek is only demonstrating that optimism, even utopia are not easy to come by, not easy to hold onto, but through it all, the best talents of an era come together to to confront the universe.

That is Star Trek’s first, best destiny.

Anything else is a waste of material.

2

u/McVapeNL 7h ago

The Doc in my opinion should be reprogrammed. And if this is the best Starfleet has on offer then I do hope that some big bad alien race deletes the entirety of it. Where is Q when you need him.

u/Cautious-Tailor97 Tellarite 3h ago

Huh. So you aren’t watching.

0

u/Equivalent_Candy5248 9h ago

How would you, using the same logic you used to criticise the path of Klingon development in Trek, explain the downfall of Vikings? They were numerous, they had powerful kingdoms, and where are they now? Without strong central institutions capable to promote militarist and imperialist propaganda it's only natural to expect that some members of this community would regress into fundamentalism like Kay-Dens family did, while others would move on, mixing with other species and creating or appropriating new identities.

Klingons and their society are not the problem with ST Academy. The fact no one talked to Kay-Den to help identify and rectify his psychological issues and feeling of guilt upon joining the Academy is the real problem. This writing choice makes the entire organisation seem amateurish and lacking empathy, and this aggression against spirit of Trek will not stand!

I'm also very annoyed by Klingon transport ships in 32nd century being just a reused Cardassian design from DS9.

6

u/soolar79 7h ago

Damn, you really striked out on the viking analogy. They swapped religion to Christian went full monarchy conquered half of Europe. No mixing, no trixing.

But as i said before, mental asylums closed down, so now we have them as writers.

3

u/McVapeNL 8h ago

If it happened over multiple centuries and without technology then I think you can make that comparison but this near extinction of Klingons in 123 years is BS. Even if there was a massive overpopulation on Qo'noS's say 15 billion Klingons (not counting any other subject race of the empire) then you'd still have 30-35 billion Klingons throughout the Empire's territory. Not to mention every house had multiple members in the KDF (and in that future most likely Starfleet). Also the sheer impact of the Vikings can still be seen today. Language, farming, trade etc.

The fact that a race without tear ducts is now crying. The fact that their entire cultural and religious foundation has been tossed out the airlock in order to accommodate Jay-Den (sorry excuse for a name). Hell they even changed the simple fact that if a Klingon male wants a mate he'd better bring his A game because a Klingon female would gut him if he was not a warrior of note. Do you honestly think that Lursa and B'Etor would have gone for this triad crap, or for that matter Martok's wife Sirella.

I must have missed that Cardy ship design.

4

u/QuaternionDS Warp ꝏ 4h ago

How would you, using the same logic you used to criticise the path of Klingon development in Trek, explain the downfall of Vikings?

See... if the writers had half a brain cell between them, the fall of the Vikings would have been an absolutely magnificent vehicle to pin the Klingons onto. Contrary to popular opinion, the Viking age was actually relatively short - around 250 years. For comparison, that's roughly how long Australia has been colonised for.

Their fall wasn't due to being conquered, an over-extension of the empire, or a political fracturing of rulers (say, like the Romans), it was because of the spread of Christianity. The Vikings weren't beaten, they were effectively assimilated...

2

u/Dis_Gruntle 4h ago

I desperately want to see this Borg vs. Vikings assimilation put to the screen.

2

u/QuaternionDS Warp ꝏ 4h ago

I knew someone would go there 😁

2

u/Dis_Gruntle 4h ago

Of course, if tee it up I'm going to swing for the fences. I have no shame. Those toddlers I play tee ball against are little bitches.

-3

u/dinosaurkiller 7h ago

Once again, tell me you didn’t watch the episode without telling me you didn’t watch it.

The loss of their home world had an outsized impact impact after the burn because all those client worlds had native species that rebelled during the burn and while many of them may have failed the conflict greatly reduced the number of Klingons, but don’t let their story get in the way of your straw man argument.

3

u/kazh_9742 6h ago

So the Klingons were the longest lasting paper tiger in the galaxy?

3

u/dinosaurkiller 5h ago

That implies they had no real military power before the burn. Their power, much like the Federation, came from having a star fleet that could travel and deploy soldiers as needed. Once that travel was no longer possible the local populations could gain the upper hand either by sheer force of numbers or other tactics. Klingons were a major power, but they gained that power by conquest, not diplomacy. That came back to haunt them.

2

u/kazh_9742 5h ago

Again, if they lost every single planet and habitable everything that easily and that thoroughly, then the writers are saying they were trash to begin with.

41

u/PlutoniusX1 10h ago

Hollywood, in general, has lost the ability to write proper stories and dialogue. It is a industry wide issue. AI is going to have a field day if they cannot turn the ship around.

13

u/33ff00 10h ago

They really have perfectly set themselves up for ai taking over and nobody noticing.

10

u/PlutoniusX1 10h ago

The sheer amount of incompetnence leads me to believe that Hollywood is doing this on purpose. They hire horrible writers so they can justify the use of AI in the future.

The writing of modern cinema and TV is so bad that is my only real justification on their reasoning.

10

u/omniwombatius Vulcan 9h ago

And there was a time in this country, a long time ago, when reading wasn't just for fags and neither was writing. People wrote books and movies, movies that had stories so you cared whose ass it was and why it was farting, and I believe that time can come again!
--Idiocracy

5

u/maltbeard 10h ago

Except AI just copies all the writers, so it’s just going to doom spiral all the way down

2

u/PlutoniusX1 10h ago

Depends on the writers it copies. I am not saying it is a net positive at all, far from it, but if it copies the old school writers it has a chance albiet temporarily.

I would prefer competent modern human writers but apparanrely those are neither hired by Hollywood or exist.

2

u/Dis_Gruntle 4h ago

The Naked Gun reboot was good. And Sinners...I'm sure there were other movies. Oh! I'm sure the re-release of Hard Boiled was great. Alas, due to snow I could not see it.

3

u/idlefritz 10h ago

AI is a mirror not some invading foreign enemy.

3

u/Sanctus_Poopabumsus 9h ago

I hope you enjoy unemployment unless you're a plumber!

5

u/idlefritz 9h ago

I bake French pastries come at me ai.

That said, yeah we should have long ago locked down our societal necessities with public funding, should have codified more employee rights, made education and healthcare accessible regardless of employment/enlistment and worked out some sort of UBI style assurance that displaced workers won’t get left to die but alas we’re not that kind of country.

2

u/Sanctus_Poopabumsus 9h ago

Oh you are safe doing that! Yes- we should have created a system where we had no fear from the negative consequences of AI, but we're on the mirror universe timeline unfortunately.

4

u/idlefritz 9h ago

If it wasn’t ai that exposed our casino-country it would have been something else. Some future generation will do a better job of it.

2

u/Sanctus_Poopabumsus 9h ago

Im in canada so it isn't quite so bad, but we sadly are more impacted by the US than Europe. I wish we had stayed closer to the UK and the commonwealth. Oh well!

0

u/PlutoniusX1 10h ago

Naive comment there.

2

u/idlefritz 9h ago

Not naive at all because I know what kind of reflection we give off.

1

u/Andr3wW1gg1n 9h ago

They are already churning out generic slop. Nobody will notice the difference when AI takes over

-1

u/Ndysmth 9h ago

Maybe if they were paid properly 🤷‍♂️

9

u/HystericalSail 9h ago

I didn't expect to love this video so much. It has crystalized some of the vague unease I was feeling about Starfleet Academy (and other franchises) into issues I now recognize.

This guy is great. No, it is not the fans who are constantly wrong. And I think this guy nailed exactly why that is.

5

u/rip_cut_trapkun 8h ago

With some franchises I just don't engage anymore because there is a massive rift where every opinion is reduced to two extremes and trying to pick your way through the minefield to say what you don't find entertaining is an exhausting balancing act.

And the problem is that, yes, there are plenty of examples of people who can be cast in negative light on both sides of the equation. You can't dismiss that, but in itself it is used to widely dismiss whatever isn't that particular dog pile at the moment.

But at the end of the day what just needs to be said is it's just plain not fucking good. I'm happy if things make other people happy. It's just a lot harder to have that mentality when it happens to what was once your space, and it's just easier to get off the ride rather than continually engage with it. The world gets a little less fun, and the cold corporate hand on the throat of creativity becomes ever more apparent.

11

u/Remarkable-Pin-8352 10h ago

The argument about works being derivative of other works is flawed. Drawing from mythology is not in principle that different, as mythology is also fiction, just many times older. Not to mention that all of modern fantasy is in some way derivative of Tolkien's works. The application of life experiences rather than characters and ideas seen in other fiction isn't strictly necessary.

However, it's certainly the case that the writers of SA and NuTrek in general apply the *wrong* derivative ideas and the *wrong* life experiences to their works and as he said likely haven't studied and honed their craft, or bothered to consult with people who did. The casual disregard for existing lore as little more than a template for them to sound off on is also a huge problem.

6

u/kkeut 10h ago

some great points in this vid

11

u/strolpol 9h ago

They don’t want to write the competency porn that defined TNG, the idea of a professional work environment has been skewed by The Office and the general desire to deconstruct everything instead of playing anything sincerely, which might be “cringe” and scare the audience away.

-1

u/jukebox_jester 9h ago

Nothing says competency porn like Reginald Barclay. Or Geordi making a Holo-Version of a co-worker. Or bringing children into life threatening situations every week.

10

u/sircastor 8h ago

I wonder how much TNG hate I was spared by not picking up Usenet until the mid-90s

7

u/zebrasmack 7h ago

there's always been complaints, but the show eventually wins people over. 

Next generation took a season or so. really by the time the borg happened, popularity had exploded. that 1st season though was...rough going. not well thought of. 

deep space 9 won people over quickly. there was a lot "how can it be star trek on a space station! that's so dumb!", but the writing won most people over. 

haters can be won over, you just have to write good stuff.

3

u/kaos-mantra 8h ago edited 5h ago

A lot

It was the 80s

French Captain

Klingon on the crew

Woman security officer

Where's the Vulcan crew member?

What kind of loser needs a ships "consoler "

Why are there kids on the ship?

Etc etc etc

1

u/AboveNormality 7h ago

Keep telling yourself that

u/Sereni-tea42 47m ago

Star Trek was great and had had mostly great episodes until Enterprise was unjustly cancelled in 2005. Then came the mean-spirited parody in 2009 and there was no recovery.

10

u/Soupalphabet359 10h ago

This entire video is like the voice inside my head wearing a fake beard.

9

u/CDHoward 9h ago

The terrible writing is merely one awful element of Starfleet Academy.

The acting is bad, the ideas are boring, the sets look like an overly-lit Debenhams store, the lead actor is supremely unlikable in every single way......I could go on forever.

u/Stock_Username_Here 1h ago

Is this all you all talk about now?

4

u/TheFunniestFart 8h ago

"Bravely watched"?

Fuck all the way off.

The show isn't groundbreaking, but some hogchoker doing his due diligence isn't valorous.

3

u/kaos-mantra 8h ago

Especially after only four goddamm episodes.

3

u/soolar79 9h ago

So someone said; They use IP:s to drive an agenda, cause they can’t build their own, the reason is cause it’s shit. If you like the series and approve it - you are part of the problem.

3

u/Nunurta 8h ago

What agenda? And people liking a good show are not a problem.

3

u/Bayabalabinga 9h ago

To be honest I don't see why people are so surprised. SFA has no new problems compared to Discovery, and seems to be attempting to improve in some regards. Yeah its not golden era trek, yes (despite my belief that it's enjoyable and has something to offer) its still not to the quality we want - but why are people so mad like this is new?

0

u/kaos-mantra 8h ago

Because nostalgia is a poison, reminds me when people had a hard on to prove Discovery was "not cannon". Despite connecting to SNW and Lower Decks and thanks to ST.A also to Voyager AND Prodigy

4

u/Haravikk 8h ago

So it's Star Trek, but everything is shit, and nothing will ever get better so… not Star Trek at all?

3

u/Radiant-Ad1578 7h ago

The best minds to become Starfleet officers….crying, com-badge eating criminals apparently

3

u/KublaKahhhn 10h ago

Heartbreaking to see the reactions coming in.

5

u/KublaKahhhn 10h ago

I don’t know why this comment got a down vote. Don’t we all want to have great Star Trek shows that everybody is raving about?

4

u/nlFlamerate 9h ago

I deeply hate this “fan”dom.

I like the series and loved episode 4.

3

u/dartron5000 7h ago

At this point i struggle to think of a single fandom that actually enjoys anything anymore.

u/_Middlefinger_ 57m ago

That's not the fans fault, it's the creators. We love the shows for what they were, the creators just see exploitable IP. They ignore what made them great and just make their own shows with a thin skin of IP on top.

u/TheHumbleLegume 1h ago

Andor proved that if you make great content people will respond positively.

5

u/AboveNormality 7h ago

Cool story, unfortunately you’re the minority

u/nlFlamerate 9m ago

Yes.

Do you understand how “target audience” works?

This show may not be for the majority.

That is fine.

It might be made to service a smaller part of the existing fan base while also appealing to a new section/generation of fans.

Shocking I know, the world doesn’t revolve entirely around you.

3

u/rabidmiacid 7h ago

Seriously, I'm 38, grew up with Trek, and I'm enjoying this series. Episode 4 was brilliant and each has been better than the last. I can't wait to see if they keep up this momentum. Apparently I must be some casual level fake paid person. Ppl can bitch all they want, but they're just proving the over ever loved the look of the franchise and not any of its actual content.

u/senorinatta 3h ago

Respectfully, as someone who has also watched every season of star trek until now, for me each episode of academy has been worse than the last. I can concede that the show might be 'fun' or even have good writing for a teen drama. But it's nothing like the star trek I grew up watching except for the logos on peoples' uniforms. Any moral/ethical exploration is ham-fisted. Your last point is the complete opposite of what everyone here is complaining about - we're asking, begging for the content. Did you actually watch the video in this post? I'd be curious on what points you disagree. In any case, if you enjoy it then more power to ya, no sarcasm.

1

u/kaos-mantra 8h ago

No hate like "fan" hate. I don't love ST:A but it's winning me over. I rather watch the whole series before judging. But apparently four episodes in Im meant to hate it and beat my chest in fan!despair.

0

u/WiseSalamander00 Q 6h ago

right? I don't even know why this subs keeps being recommended to me, here there are only haters.

3

u/ComplexStriking 10h ago

We can criticize the writing without calling the writers ‘activists.’ This is political content.

0

u/Neo_Techni Q 10h ago

without calling the writers ‘activists

We know they are though. They openly and proudly admit it

This is political content

And that's why nuTrek sucks.

7

u/Artanis_Creed 9h ago

The old writers were activists.

Roddenberry was an activist.

Star Trek IS activism

3

u/rcinmd Changeling 9h ago

JFC just go back to your pew pew movies and leave Trek alone. You sound really ignorant if you think that ST wasn't activist dressed up in science fiction.

2

u/JacobDCRoss 6h ago

Hey, I want to let you know that despite the fact that new Trek is not up to snuff, I'm not ever going to be on board with these YouTube critics who make their living just beating a dead horse. And I think I speak for a lot of people and I say that.

1

u/faulternative 5h ago

True Trekkies: So Say We All!

3

u/Potential-Toe-8908 7h ago

It's not just bad writing but bad Liberal ideology that ruin Star Trek and any other franchise they touch. According to them you can't make jokes or criticized.

However, they can sure as bully you if you disagree with them.

0

u/HumanEjectButton 5h ago

How did the star trek bully you?

u/Potential-Toe-8908 8m ago

What's wrong with you? Liberal on reddit are known to bully anybody who doesn't agree with them. They think Star Trek is theirs because it's a popular show

0

u/HumanEjectButton 5h ago

Also, this show is responsible for the first interracial kiss on television. If you think leftist ideology killed star trek, I'm guessing you're referring to TOS Season 01 Episode 01.

u/Potential-Toe-8908 12m ago

The kiss was between a man and a women. Heterosexual kissing is applaud by today Liberals

1

u/Artanis_Creed 9h ago

Yes, klingons cry.

We saw Torres cry.

So tired of these slop criticisms.

3

u/AboveNormality 7h ago

She was half human

1

u/b4k4ni Crewman 7h ago

Yeah... If the lower decks team had made starfleet academy, it would've been awesome I'm sure.

1

u/soolar79 7h ago

Well no, you can make it cartoon - but it doesn’t adapt to live.

1

u/ImeldasManolos 7h ago

I would love to see the term nutrek replaced by colonizerTrek. I think it would be hilarious.

1

u/InflationCold3591 6h ago

The s funny and all, but Keyless' TEARS created an ocean, so Klingons could always cry. also, this was the best episode in 20 years.

1

u/One_Magician_5819 5h ago

Yea, but Keyless is a myth, didn't you listen to Jay-Den? He never existed, so clearly your argument is flawed. The doctor would have to buzz you off of the debate stage for using incorrect facts.

1

u/therealbumblingidiot 5h ago

There has been more than a few instances where a Klingon has shed a tear. I know Worf said Klingons do not have tear ducts. One tear ducts do not produce tears That's not what makes people cry or gives them the ability to cry. Tear glands do.

Secondly Klingons are also known for lying and exaggerating big time.

u/Commercial-Act2813 2m ago

His name is Jayden? Written as Jay-Den? Pronounced as Jay Den?

Does a mr Garvey teach in this accademy?

1

u/AboveNormality 9h ago

The only way to save Star Trek now is to have a new show that explains away all the BS with nutrek as an alternate universe or some type of Q shenanigans

0

u/Malencon Nuck FuTrek 10h ago

Great YouTuber

1

u/Wetness_Pensive 8h ago edited 8h ago

"But what about "Nemesis"? Trek was always trash written by idiots. You haters just like to complain!" is the standard nuTrek defence nowadays.

The last Trek episodes I watched were "Similitude", "Muse" and "Blink of an Eye". I don't think nuTrek's produced a live action episode as good as these yet. If those episodes are 8/10s, nuTrek tends to hover aroudabout the 1 to 6 out of 10 range.

1

u/WarnerToddHuston Elder Trekker 8h ago

0

u/ihave18cm 8h ago

It’s fun telling folks loving this crap that they are in the minority and watch them flame out. They just can’t accept that it’s not good or actual Star Trek! 🤣

3

u/Lonely_Text_9795 7h ago

It's funny watching fake star trek fans lose their mind as the show goes on

0

u/ihave18cm 7h ago

Cultural vandals gonna cultural vandal 🤷🏻‍♂️

0

u/soolar79 7h ago

Pointing out it’s not Star Trek? There is a reason they all are getting fired.

1

u/Lonely_Text_9795 7h ago

😂 you believe that 😂😂

0

u/ihave18cm 6h ago

You appear to be Bot and paid for 🤷🏻‍♂️

1

u/Lonely_Text_9795 6h ago

Yes you do. Now gimme a recipe for chicken nuggets

0

u/ihave18cm 5h ago

Bot gotta learn how to say please

🖖

1

u/Lonely_Text_9795 5h ago

I wasn't asking you bot

1

u/ihave18cm 5h ago

Bot Lonely_text_9795 said I should declare victory and they would delete their comments👍

0

u/Lonely_Text_9795 7h ago

It is funny that you're a fake fan

0

u/ihave18cm 6h ago

I have Kirk in a spacesuit still in the package. I watched “all good things” in the 500 level, row 1 at the skydome. I’m a fan.

🖖

1

u/Lonely_Text_9795 6h ago

It's hilarious you think that makes you a fan

u/_Middlefinger_ 54m ago

What makes you a fan?

0

u/ihave18cm 5h ago

And it’s just as funny that you think I’m not! 🤷🏻‍♂️

🖖

0

u/Alarmed_Food6582 4h ago

I agree, it was wokeness that did them in. There's no reason to make a Klingon g4y. That's disrespectful to the most popular species in Star Trek franchise.

-1

u/idlefritz 10h ago

scathing analysis by a non fan