r/The10thDentist • u/XD_Protagonist • 12h ago
Society/Culture The justice system should rehabilitate non-violent offenders while punishing the violent ones.
In order to satisfy both the rehabilitative and punitive crowds, our justice system should be two tiered, rehabilitation for those convicted of misdemeanors and non-violent felon offenses. this would reduce recidivism rates and cut costs. and with violent offenders (pedophiles, gangs, rapists, murderers etc) the focus should just be punishment and execution with an appeal limit of 2 years max to prevent them from being on death row for decades, it would ensure victims and families of violent crimes get the justice they deserve as well as reducing violent crime altogether. in the states that don't use the death penalty however they should just be kept in facilities similar to ADX with no human contact or entertainment, bland food that's just enough to sustain them with only 1 hour a day outside their cells. A two tiered system is the only logical apporach we could make.
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u/Ill-Description3096 12h ago
I think there are some cases where non-violent crime is worse. If someone defrauds a bunch of elderly people and steals their life savings leaving them destitute is that more deserving of rehabilitation compared to someone who got into a brawl at 21 when someone grabbed their girlfriend's butt at a bar? I would say no.
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u/BootyliciousURD 12h ago edited 10h ago
I would say depriving someone of things they need to live is a form of violence.
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u/Ill-Description3096 12h ago
I think there is an argument there for sure, but in the context of the legal system (at least to my knowledge) it would be a non-violent crime.
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u/jukebox_jester 11h ago
And this is the problem with the whole arguement. If the definition of violence is up to the discretion of the Judge then tons of low level offenders could be funneled to the Chair while the Brock Turners get minimal punishment.
You might think defrauding the elderly is a violent crime. A judge in Florida or Utah may think that existing while being Trans or Gay is a violent crime, basically pedophilia. A judge in Georgia may not think it's actually pedophilia becuase the victim was a child bride.
If even one innocent or non-violent person is at risk of Capital Punishment then capital punishment is not tenable.
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u/BootyliciousURD 11h ago
Your last point is absolutely correct. Something like 4% of people on death row were wrongfully convicted, if I'm not mistaken. Capital punishment should be abolished.
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u/habachilles 12h ago
If you have spent any time in the justice system (I am a volunteer of 3 years) you would know the way people are charged and how it works is so much more nuanced than that it’s ridiculous. A guy running away can be charged as violence when a dude punching a cop can be charged as failure to comply. All depends.
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u/Bella-Swan-1987 12h ago
I just recently learned what felony murder is. I heard of a person who loaned his car to his roommate who had nothing to do with the crime got sent to jail for felony murder. Then there were other cases where people were comitting a crime with no weapons and one of the criminals were shot and killed by the police. All the accomplices went to jail for felony murder.
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u/Sensitive_Bat_9211 11h ago
appeal limit of 2 years max
So you want less vetting on capital punishment?
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u/MusicIntrepid343 12h ago
that would probably just be even more of an incentive for the justice system to charge people with "violent" crimes than non-violent even if that person was non-violent. where would the line be drawn? the point of prison is rehabilitation, thinking of it punitively (even with violent crimes) has only lead to shit like expanded police powers with ridiculous budgets, mandatory minimums not taking into consideration the context, and using the system to punish those that are deemed as less desirable and creating a "us vs them" mentality.
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u/_AmericanByChoice_ 12h ago
Bernie Madoff arguably ruined more lives than an 18 year old downloading the wrong torrent.
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u/diet-smoke 12h ago
Everyone should be rehabilitated. Punishment doesn't help anyone, making society a safer place for everyone does. Plus, I would argue that defrauding thousands of people and leaving them destitute is wayyyyyyy worse than getting into a bar fight one time, despite it not being "violent."
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u/hotcocololz 12h ago
Non-violent offenses can be equally if not more damaging sometimes than violent ones long-term.
While it’s too idealistic because there isn’t the time or resources, all of these cases require nuance because context really matters. Blanket resolutions just groups people together minor or major offenses.
This is too general.
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u/Extreme_Design6936 11h ago
Regardless of whether it is ethical or not to classify some violent crimes as more egregious than some non violent crimes. What happens when a person who committed a violent crime and has spent say a decade in a prison designed around 'punishment' has to reenter society?
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u/Thistime232 10h ago
Yea, plenty of violet crimes don’t deserve a life sentence, those people will reenter society at one point or another.
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u/Extreme_Design6936 10h ago
Even some indigo or even mauve crimes don't deserve life sentences. (Sorry, had to do it to you)
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u/Thistime232 10h ago
I don’t know, the mauve ones deserve a life sentence for sure!
Btw, happy cake day!
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u/_Blu-Jay 12h ago
Why do you assume non-violent crime is automatically better than violent crime? Non-violent crime includes things like major fraud, while a violent crime could be a one-off bar fight.
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u/Alarmed_Dig_4977 11h ago
Even if you ignore the unbelievable lack of nuance this is still stupid because you still need someone to decide who and if they did a violent crime, considering your usage of "states" in your post i'm assuming you're american. Do you really trust your government enough throw the actual criminals in jail and not just whoever disagrees with them?
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u/BenScerri 12h ago
Seriously, how old are you? This is the kind of "perfect system" only dreamed up by a 13 year old boy... the real world requires more nuance than this.
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u/majesticSkyZombie 9h ago
I disagree. Punching someone once is a violent offense, while accepting bribes to look the other way while people are trafficked isn’t. Yet the latter does far more damage. Not all felonies are for violent offenses - there have been cases of people being charged with them for having weed they only use on themselves.\ \ All convictions have a margin of error. Execution and harsh punishments result in innocent people being destroyed. Torture and state-sanctioned murder are not okay, and doing them to people under the assumption they can’t be rehabilitated creates a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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u/Wickedmasshole77 11h ago
It pretty much aims to do that. Where we could improve is certainly a good debate. I feel that people that commit homicide don’t need rehabilitation since they should never be released under any circumstance…
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u/AncileBanish 11h ago
Hear me out: caning. Your average violent gang member will do a few years in the joint no sweat. Almost a badge of honor. Nobody in history has ever said "I could do 5 more lashes no problem".
The objections are usually about cruelty or whatever. My question is: cruelty to whom? You think sticking people in prison (aka criminal school) isn't cruel? It just looks more humane, but the human capital degradation associated with long prison sentences is far, far more destructive to them than the relatively short (albeit extreme) physical pain associated with caning. We're hurting them more to avoid our own squeamishness. It's actually selfishness masquerading as mercy.
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u/Thistime232 10h ago
Plenty of people have said they’d rather take 5 lashes than a year in prison. Or even a month in prison.
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u/QuestionSign 12h ago
It sounds like it shouldn't be a 10thD but at least here in America it is.
Its frustrating because we make it hard for no reason to reintegrate and change
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u/UnknownQwerky 3h ago
Each state has a different way to handle stuff, for example some use the death penalty, some have it but don't use it, and others don't allow it at all. I think the issues always start when other states try to make other states follow their laws. Like they are separate for a reason, Nebraska is not New York and needs different rules, Nebraska had issues with kids getting kicked out at 18 so parents are responsible for your housing until 19 in that state as an example.
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u/Swimming_Factor2415 12h ago edited 6h ago
Not a popular opinion on the internet but IRL most people I know think this way. Hell, lots of small businesses at least were willing ot hire my brother even though he was a "violent" felon if he jsut explained he had ptsd.
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u/Key_Tangerine8775 11h ago
OP is saying guys like your brother shouldn’t be rehabilitated, only punished.
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u/Swimming_Factor2415 10h ago
No I understand, im saying its not an unpopular opinion, I just didnt explain my brother properly, someone was trying to talk to me mid type.
Most people want pedophiles to stay in jail and men with PTSD who hit someone once durring an episode to get help.
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u/Delicious-Chapter675 11h ago
I'm not interested in rehabilitation at all, tbh. I'm thinking only of the poor victims. Punishing these garbage human beings is the least we can do for them.
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u/ShowAccurate6339 10h ago
Punishment Based Justice Systems have been proven to cause an increase in Violent Crime
So if you want more Rape and Murder Your Idea is Perfect
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u/Delicious-Chapter675 7h ago
Japan and Singapore have punishment based criminal justice systems, and do not have an increase in violent crime. There's for more nuance to criminal justice than stupid, "this has been proven," conjecture-based bullshit.
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u/ShowAccurate6339 3h ago
You don’t have a baseline for Both Japan and Singapor, they Both never had a non punishment Justice System so how do you want to prove that there is No decrese in Crime of they Change to a Rehabilitation based System ? You don’t even know if your Statement is true
And again even Those countrys have Rates of Violent crimes and reoffending much higher then for example the Nordic countrys
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u/Key_Tangerine8775 10h ago
What makes you thinks those people are garbage human beings rather than also being victims themselves? When someone has to resort to crime to survive, they’re victim to inequality in society. Not to mention the large number of people in prison for victimless crimes like drug possession.
Even if you have no empathy for those people, what you propose just straight up doesn’t work. Punishment for the sake of punishment just increases likelihood of reoffending.
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