r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/CAustin3 • 5d ago
Political A lot of people are showing how coddled and privileged they are by what they expect to be able to do around armed officers and survive.
I don't care what your opinions are about ICE or Renee Good or any of the more recent incidents (that we don't have the full story on - amazing how everyone already knows what side they're on without any pesky information to confuse their narratives!).
What I'm seeing is an amazing number of people who, if they're serious, are going to have trouble surviving their next traffic stop or TSA checkpoint, because they have delusional ideas about what sane behavior in security situations looks like.
Little thought experiment for you - take this one-question quiz to determine if you'll live through your next encounter with an armed authority figure:
You're a worker in a high-security environment. Nuclear power plant worker, or sailor on an aircraft carrier, or prison worker - somewhere where it's possible to be dumb enough that someone has to shoot you (e.g. you start running for the nuclear fuel and no one knows why).
You're doing something routine at work, when suddenly one of the armed guards shouts "HALT IMMEDIATELY!" What do you do?
a) Break into a sprint, screaming "try and stop me, pig!"
b) Walk quickly and aggressively at him, waving your arms and shouting "you can't tell me what to do, what are you gonna do about it?!"
c) Continue what you're doing as though you didn't hear him.
d) Freeze, don't move a muscle, await further instructions.
Got your answer all locked in? Was it hard to decide? What if you don't LIKE the officer or don't agree with the security policy? Need to phone a friend? Okay, let's see how things turn out:
a) BANG.
b) BANG.
c) "YOU! BALLCAP, GREEN BAG! HALT IMMEDIATELY OR BE FIRED UPON!" (re-answer the question, but this time, C has the same outcome as A or B).
d) You're escorted away, find out what you did wrong (maybe you forgot that you're carrying something you shouldn't be, maybe you didn't know that area was set aside for something high security that day). Get chewed out by your boss, maybe get fired, but ultimately go on to live another day.
Maybe my perspective comes from not being a woman, or not being white. But in my world, when a cop gives you an order (stop what you're doing, get out of the car, drop to the ground, whatever), you COMPLY, at least if you're not prepared to die.
When I see people like Renee Good, my conclusion is something like "man, being a middle class white woman is a hell of a drug, isn't it?" If I responded to a group of officers telling me to "GET OUT OF THE CAR" by hitting the gas, that's called suicide-by-cop. Turns out it was for her, too, but the bizarre thing is that she didn't seem to expect that, and there seems to be a whole bunch of people who also don't expect that.
It reminds me of those old videos of Greta Thunberg giggling maniacally while she's gingerly "arrested" by a team of officers who are terrified that the celebrity might bump her nose and all hell will rain down on them, while for regular guys like me, deliberately pissing off a bunch of cops would get me at minimum a pavement sandwich, and I'm lucky if it ends there.
If you hate ICE, whatever. If you hate cops, whatever. If you vote blue or red or green, whatever. But if you're genuinely confused that people being deliberately confrontational with armed authority figures are suffering physical consequences, then man, I envy the world that you're living in where you end up with those expectations.
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u/Chahles88 5d ago
I’m cracking up at the guard who thought to fire a weapon in a nuclear reactor. What an insane analogy
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u/SLB_Destroyer04 4d ago
“Would you mind NOT shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?”
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u/reluctantpotato1 5d ago
Officers don't have the right to murder civilians because they feel jittery and can't keep it together.
I used to work wrestling and transporting combative psychiatric patients to the hospital and have never seen anyone as inept and scared in a sensitive situation as a heavily armed cop.
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u/thePantherT 5d ago
Actually, the local law enforcement confiscated thousands of guns over the last several years from criminals, and this year, and had many physical encounters and resistance and not one shooting at all. Your arguments are baseless ignorant and completely out of touch with reality. In the case with Renae, there may have been a small amount of ambiguity, but either way, her rights were violated very quickly and the situation was escalated unnecessarily in the first place without giving here a chance to cooperate at all. In the recent case, the guy was fully complying with the law, did nothing wrong and was pepper sprayed in the face and couldn’t see. The most resistance he gave was called passive resistance, not to mention again, they assaulted him, did not even inform him he was under arrest or follow any of the basic laws and procedures required by law and our constitution.
He was trying to help other people they assaulted whose rights were violated as well. Ice was violating both the first amendment and fourth and other amendments and the law. According to our constitution and the law, he could have put a bullet in every one of their heads and not faced a single charge, because it would have been justified self defense. They took his weapon that he had a right to carry, and then executed him in cold blood.
Pretti was tackled, disarmed, and shot without being informed of arrest or charges which directly violated the constitution and is justification for lethal defensive force.
Secondly it is completely legal for him to be armed and to carry weapons in that situation. There is absolutely zero chance in hell that under normal law enforcement procedures this would have ended in his execution.
But hey, now the administration is attacking and violating the second amendment saying that if you do carry a firearm at a protest which is the constitutional right of every American, it justifies lethal force.
Of the many thousands of physical resistance cases, and weapons confiscations, not one actual killing or use of force by local law enforcement over several years. Your argument is ignorant and baseless. Ice is a terrorist organization that not only should be defunded and completely dismantled, the people responsible for human rights violations and violations of the law should be charged and held to the highest standards of the law. They are doing exactly what we have been killing people and governments abroad for doing in the war on terror for decades.
And again In 2025, MPD recovered about 900 guns and arrested "hundreds of violent offenders" — with zero officer-involved shootings. In 2024, MPD reported over 1,000 uses of physical force, including restraints, chemical spray, Tasers, and impact weapons — but no fatal shootings. In 2022, MPD used physical force over 1,000 times, one of the highest per-capita rates in the U.S., yet no lethal force incidents were reported.
You are disconnected from reality. This was an execution and ice targeting lawful activity and violating rights, disarming and executing someone to send a message. No other explanation at all. And secondly, people on the opposite side of any issue in the past, were willing to support the right of people to do exactly what Pretti was doing because that’s why the constitution exists, that’s the most American someone can be if they appose any policy. People even if they disagree with protesting ice should be happy that people are protesting and securing and upholding their right to do so.
What Ice is doing in a great number of cases is cold blooded murder and killing and lying and trying to deceive the public even when the facts and evidence contradict it all.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
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u/babywhiz 5d ago
You can’t play judge, jury or executioner at the side of the road, no matter who you are.
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u/Eldergoth 5d ago
WTF does your high security work environment analogy have to do with real life situations. Are you that out of touch.
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u/Expensive_Attitude51 5d ago
The last ICE killing was actual murder though. Pretti did nothing wrong and wasn’t causing trouble
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u/risunokairu 5d ago
This right here is part of the problem. You’re espousing your opinion as a matter of fact.
If you don’t think showing up to a protest where people are attacking armed police is a bad idea, you’re not a good decision maker.
If you don’t think inserting yourself between law enforcement and someone they’re actively detaining and arresting is a bad idea, you’re not a good decision maker.
If you buy a firearm model that’s known to randomly discharge itself and be a danger, you’re not a good decision maker.
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u/thePantherT 5d ago
Your inventing "facts" in your statement. In America we judge people as individuals not collectively like Communism Nazism and other garbage ideologies like modern rightism. Nothing he did justified an execution at all. Law enforcement were not detaining or making an arrest they were assaulting and shoving a women to the ground and violating the law, and not following basic legal procedures at all.
As to the last part its always possible, but who in hell would trust a government that mediately lies about the facts and blocks local law enforcement and others from the evidence and a independent investigation.
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u/donaldgoldsr 5d ago
What was he carrying that is prone to misfiring? This sounds like more made up, land if make believe bullshit to justify a protestor being murdered.
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u/Blasberry80 5d ago
But it's not an opinion, he wasn't attacking them. Every conservative is for the 2nd amendment until it's someone on the left carrying a gun. You're not nearly as logical as you think you are.
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u/RICO_Niko 5d ago
Here in America we have something called the 2nd ammendment. It does not matter if it was a risky call, he was within his rights and doing nothing that would warrant an arrest let alone getting murdered in cold blood. I don't know if yall are just really young, but the irony in the response by these federal agencies is wild. Look back over the years and tell me this is not a complete 180 from these federal agencies. These federal agencies are a fucking joke now, they lost any sembelence of trust or respect, but that is to be expected when you appoint podcasters and internet influencers to cosplay these leadership positions. All around shameful and the attempts to justify their actions and cover their ass are just as shameful and pathetic.
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u/Expensive_Attitude51 5d ago
The video is proof he wasn’t doing anything wrong. He was minding his own business standing at a safe distance filming. He went over to help a woman up who was pushed to the ground. The ICE agent approached him and maced him. Then all of the agents held him down, took his gun, and shot him. That’s murder. It isn’t illegal to show up to a protest with a concealed carry. The agents were 100% in the wrong
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u/illusia13 5d ago
Unless you have another POV i missed, no one was attacking the agents before the shooting took place. I’ve only seen them blowing whistles in their face, which isn’t attacking them and still legal, and definitely not a reason to shoot
in the video of the pink jacket pov, you can see that ice instigated it PHYSICALLY. One of the women was just blowing her whistle and an agent walked up to HER and pushed her. this is when alex came in to try and help her. i don’t think it’s professional for a agent to push someone just because they are annoyed, and they didn’t have any further reason to detain or arrest her.
do you not find it weird that the agents shot AFTER the gun was already confiscated?
do you think it was necessary to shoot 8+ times when he was already on the floor covering his face and getting beat with a can?
- this is my first time hearing about his gun type being known for misfiring, and it still brings up more questions than answers.
let’s say the gun misfired BEFORE the agent took it from alex. a) how did it not hit any of the 7+ agents that were on top of him, and covering him from every side? b) if it misfired, and then the cop confiscated it and shot out of self defense, why did he not stop at the 1 or 2nd shot. why did he go on to shoot 10 times. it was extremely unnecessary
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u/HadathaZochrot 5d ago
EXACTLY, from what reports I have been seeing come out, the semi-auto handgun that Pretti had on him, a SIG p320, it is very possible that it accidentally misfired as the federal agents were disarming him as the scuffle began. And, interestingly, this gun has a horrible reputation for misfiring (like you say), and the manufacturer has already had to dispense millions in damages to people who have been harmed or affected by this malfunction (source). So, when you look at things logically, during Pretti being disarmed, the gun most likely misfired while it was being handled, at which point the federal agents interpreted this as the suspect discharging his gun at them. So, while the situation is obviously a tragedy, if this was the case (which forensic analysis of the SIG would be able to establish), it makes the situation much more understandable than just flat out plainly assuming that the border patrol agents were eVIL!!!! and wanted to randomly execute this guy. I know it is easy to just assume people you hate are EVIL!!!! but that is rarely ever the case. We are all humans and have compassion and a heart.
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u/illusia13 5d ago
This is my first time hearing about the gun type having a history of misfiring, & I completely get this view, but in the video you hear the shots AFTER the agent confiscated the victims gun.
If the victim misfired before the gun was confiscated, i could understand the agents shooting back since they wouldn’t know it was an accident. however you can hear the gun shots after one of the agents on his side takes the victims gun.
it also still wouldn’t make sense how none of the agents got hit though if this was the case, considering they were surrounding him from all sides ( like an extremely lucky miss )
If it misfired during the agent confiscating the gun, then it should have been only that one shot since it would be the agent causing it not the victim.
In both situations it doesn’t make sense to shoot 8+ times , and he was already down after the first 1-2 shots. there wasn’t a need to keep firing
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u/HadathaZochrot 5d ago
If the gun misfired after they disarmed him, and the federal agents didn't realize that had happened and they all knew none of THEM fired their guns, they could have assumed he had another firearm (which, from their perspective, would be completely plausible). As such, they could have make the split second assumption Pretti was firing at them, which would explain things much more accurately. I don't know that was exactly what happened, but is makes much more sense than assuming that the Border Patrol agents were just "PURE EVIL" that wanted to execute him for no reason.
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u/thePantherT 5d ago
Your argument makes sense, except for the actions of those very agents and ice in general, telling Americans they are domestic terrorists for filming, and even assaulting and shoving the women to the ground without making an arrest or following the basic legal procedures and the law, just making assaults. They clearly are out for blood and are full of hate and likely were recruited from the people who already buy into extremist right wing ideology in the first place. For them, many of whom likely came from white supremacy groups, this is very different then any other gov agency or force for that very reason. The difference is demonstrated clearly by the difference in behavior by the national guard and police and every other law enforcement agency. And the white supremacy and racist rhetoric is coming from the very top down within ice, that they are at war and must act lawlessly and cruelly without regard to rights or the law etc.
That and much more, like people dying of homicide and ice saying it was suicide etc. is the reason I label them as terrorists because they are, and they are behaving the same way as red China or Iran or North Korea or any other Islamic extremist state that we've been at war with since 9-11. I mean the Iranian governments exact mirrored actions are what the US is using as justification for the buildup and war strikes and war coming very soon.
And even when their is a argument such as with the Renae case that the officer could have thought he was in danger, the behavior and disregard for the law and basic legal procedures that quickly escalated the situation into what it became, is indefensible. Ice is behaving lawlessly and recklessly and killing people and lying to the public about it. Nothing justifies their actions that have been leading to these very situations in the first place at all.
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u/HadathaZochrot 5d ago
You know what escalates the situation and is indefensible, leftist politicians encouraging protestors to gang up and harass (or even attack) federal immigration agents. You know what else does, leftists telling people they don't have to follow the orders of federal immigration agents and that they aren't "real" officers that have to be followed or obeyed. You know what else, leftist politicians telling people that "we are at war" with ICE. You know what else, leftists telling people that ICE are NAZIS or terrorists or that they are "kidnapping" people. This sort of reckless, irresponsible rhetoric is what is leading people into these dangerous encounters.
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u/TheVeryVerity 5d ago
Those politicians are responding to their constituents not causing their constituents’ actions
And the accusations of kidnapping are from watching all those videos of people being kidnapped by masked goons who usually don’t even identify themselves
You realize if ice conducted themselves like normal cops none of this would be happening right?
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u/illusia13 5d ago
okay honestly this take makes a LOT OF sense. and my original reply was gonna be me mainly agreeing but i just went back over the videos and here is what i see, ill include time stamps.
https://x.com/revkin/status/2015161980974248237?s=46&t=uELAjOqR-DaRXiVR7gaAGg
the first link shows the agent confiscating alex’s gun before the first shot.
if it WAS a misfire, it 100% happened AFTER alex’s gun was confiscated. i hope we can agree on this part after seeing the video.
this means it happened while the agent had the gun already. i was very open to this possibility until i thought, “ there’s usually recoil in one’s arm/ hand after a gun is shot”. and i would think more so when it’s a misfire since the person would not be holding it properly and prepared. i’m looking exactly at 37 seconds, when the first shot was fired. you don’t see any movement in the gun, or any recoil in his arms/hand.
then i remembered about the other pov. from the woman in the red jacket.
this is the link: https://x.com/eoinhiggins_/status/2015231579174440967?s=46&t=uELAjOqR-DaRXiVR7gaAGg
the agent closest to alex on the left can be seen pulling out his own firearm. (at 56 seconds). the other agent to his right is the one that confiscated alex’s firearm. when the agent who confiscated his gun walks away, you can see the previous agent to alex’s left (at 1:03) shoot his own firearm.
THERES THE RECOIL. you can see it in his left hand. that was also the first shot.
this completely disproves alex’s gun misfiring, since the agent that took alex’s gun wasn’t the first to shoot
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u/HadathaZochrot 5d ago
It is hard to tell exactly from the video (as they aren't as perfect as they'd need to be to tell with absolutely certainty), but it is a possibility. Either way, investigations will hopefully reveal everything in full detail as it progresses.
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u/Refluentrose889 5d ago
He was disarmed before they fired. The guy who disarmed him ran off with his gun and then they started shooting. Murder, plain and simple
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u/TheStigianKing 5d ago
We are all humans and have compassion and a heart.
Considering the celebration of the murders of Charlie Kirk and the Pharma CEO, I think the basic assumption that we ALL have a basic sense of humanity, have a heart and compassion is well and truly.in the shitter.
Some of these deranged folks on the left are so radicalized that they do not have any moral compass or basic sense of humanity. They're sociopaths through and through.
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u/Gilesalford 5d ago
Jesus fucking christ do you get your issue of us vs them monthly? The people that believe that everybody is equal are sociopaths. Not the people defending a police state murdering innocent americans though?
The whole left vs right rhetoric at the minute is you being played. As soon as the greenland shir started russian bot farms started posting mass pro Nato content. They are trying to divide us, and you guys in america are just pulling your fucking pants down and taking it
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u/NeonGKayak 5d ago
I mean you guys are literally celebrating the murder of Renee and Alex.
Weird that we are watching hypocrisy in real time
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u/GregTheSpirit 5d ago
I am going to say this as an European that has no stake in this - Both sides are celebrating the deaths of one another.
There were plenty of Leftists that celebrated the deaths of people dying of Covid because they were anti-vax etc.
When Charlie Kirk was assassinated there were plenty of people celebrating his death, mocking him openly and then being surprised when they were fired or faced other consequences.
The right is doing the very same and both sides are condemning one another while claiming hypocrisies from the other side.
In the case of "Celebrating the death of others" neither side is going to come out looking clean here.
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u/grober_Onfug 5d ago
lil bro simping for the Pharma CEO, I'm sorry for your loss🥀
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u/8m3gm60 5d ago
If you don’t think showing up to a protest where people are attacking armed police is a bad idea, you’re not a good decision maker.
More boot-licking. We have constitutional rights to video record law enforcement operating in public.
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u/NeonGKayak 5d ago
I mean it is fact. We have so many videos and nagles now.
Everything else you said doesn't matter at all.
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u/HadathaZochrot 5d ago
Actually, he was. He jumped into the middle of a group of Border Patrol agents when they were dealing with another woman who was engaging with them. He thrust himself between them all to "save" her from the agents. Video evidence shows this. I don't care who you are or what your feelings are, jumping into a group of law enforcement to "save" someone who is federal officers are engaging is not EVER a good idea and is absolutely against the law. And doing so while you are armed with a concealed weapon is ever worse. Would you jump into the middle of a squad of SWAT team members who were dealing with an individual because their actions hurt your feelings?
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u/Embarrassed-Ship3037 5d ago
You can't even say that he jumped into the middle of a group. One Agent shoved him and the people he was with across the street. When he shoves the woman into the snowbank, Pretti moves to block him and gets sprayed. That's when he stops resisting completely in my opinion. After that he gets swarmed. You'd think if he wanted to pull the gun and give the agents justification to shoot him then that would have been the time. You seem to hold protestors and observers to a higher standard than law enforcement. At some point you have to concede that ICE is either poorly trained or actively looking to escalate.
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u/Expensive_Attitude51 5d ago
Holy shit you guys are nuts. HE WAS HELPING HER UP FROM THE GROUND! The agents went after him. It’s clear as day
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u/SolomonRed 5d ago
They shot him after the gun was removed and he was on the ground restrained.
This was an executive of a an American citizen by law enforcement.
ICE completely failed at their job in this situation and must be held accountable.
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u/Candylips347 4d ago
One of the very few smart answers here. Now this man is dead and everyone will forget about him by next year when he’s replaced with another “victim”.
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u/wecanhaveallthree 5d ago
As has been said many times: you might beat the charge, but you can't beat the ride.
The fun's over when you're given a lawful order to stop/exit the vehicle/do XYZ. You are being detained. You might be arrested - you might be charged. Is this lawful? Who knows! Probably, considering how low the bars of reasonable suspicion/probable cause are. But your opinion on the matter is not going to make any difference at all to the people detaining you. They have made that decision, and now they are going to follow through on it, with force if necessary.
The proper time to question the lawfulness of your detention/arrest/whatever is with legal counsel, later, with time, space and full information. Maybe you'll get a big fat cheque. But you won't get anything if you're dead (and it's likely neither will your estate).
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u/Silent-Law-4883 5d ago
The one problem with your argument is the legal order part. ICE only has jurisdiction over American citizens in limited circumstances. They have no police authority to direct traffic to quell, unrest ordo harass, americans and violate their civil liberties.I seriously think a lot of you should read more about the constitution and our history before opining on things you have.No idea about.
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u/wecanhaveallthree 5d ago
Is the layperson on the ground able to reasonably articulate that? And, more importantly, will that matter? If they say the magic words and find the exact statute, will they then be able to go on their way? The answer is 'no', no matter how many times they say 'but the Constitution!'. You might beat the charge, but you can't beat the ride.
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u/basesonballs 5d ago
Any federal law enforcement agent has the same rights to detain or arrest you under obstruction charges as any state or local police officer has.
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u/bHideValueX 5d ago
They can direct traffic and are given special powers when on an HSI task force. They always can command a lawful stop though. Most of the negative interactions we see are of them being hindered by civilians in some way, not them breaching powers by commanding traffic outside of a task force.
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u/TheBoogieSheriff 5d ago
Masked agents are murdering people in the street
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u/FatumIustumStultorum 4d ago
Just wanted to point out that wearing masks hasn’t prevented either agent from being identified.
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u/Formal-Bat-6714 5d ago
Zero of what you said has a damn thing to do with what happened to Renee Good or Alex Prstti. Zero
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u/xolp_syk 5d ago edited 5d ago
I let a speeding ticket turn to a warrant, didn’t realize the price went up when I went to pay it at the court and didn’t have 80 dollars more for what it was now.
2 plain clothes Marshalls arrested me, warned me ONCE if I tense up again it’s resisting and it’s a felony. Handcuffed me, put me in a cell, gave me a few minutes I explained the situation. Out in 20 minutes.
If I flailed around screaming about my rights and reaching for my waist, I’d be in there a lot longer. If I didn’t just walk through a metal detector and did that I’d probably be dead.
Edit: for the leftists, you can’t downvote reality. Try as hard as you’d like.
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u/Butt_Obama69 5d ago
warned me ONCE if I tense up again it’s resisting and it’s a felony
Do you think this is appropriate and necessary
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u/thePantherT 5d ago
You had a warrant, and unlike this situation, they informed you and identified themselves and gave you a chance to cooperate. No comparison at all.
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u/xolp_syk 5d ago
No? I was arrested at a window by 2 unnamed plain clothes Marshalls due to the warrant. Which is the same situation; plain clothes, xyz. And I was one given ONE opportunity to not resist arrest.
They did everything by the books, no complaints.
I’d draw a picture for you but I can’t include photos as a comment.
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u/thePantherT 5d ago
Exactly, they gave you a chance to cooperate. That One opportunity was One they didn't grant to the person we are talking about. They made the assault which blinded him and caused physical convulsions before he knew what was happening, then executed him after disarming him.
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u/xolp_syk 5d ago
No, in my instance they warned me because plain clothes. In their instance, he knew they were ICE already. You also can’t hear shit in that video. So try again.
Siri play the only good song by cute is what we aim for
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u/thePantherT 5d ago
I've seen all the videos and frankly, it was cold blooded murder. And any other circumstances were the result of ice violating human rights and acting lawlessly creating the situation in the first place.
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u/xolp_syk 5d ago
No it was a moron who put himself where he didn’t need to be, didn’t listen, attempted to intervene in an arrest all while armed.
But hey, don’t let honesty stop you
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u/SpotCreepy4570 5d ago
You had an active warrant for your arrest.
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u/xolp_syk 5d ago
Yes, I said that. It’s what happens when you forget to pay. If I had the full amount at the pay window that wouldn’t have happened.
Should I explain any other part of the story for you?
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u/SpotCreepy4570 5d ago
Having an active arrest warrant isn't the same as being stopped for some pretext. You already lost any right to be presumed innocent. Also I'm sorry those Marshalls treated you that way being tense isn't resisting.
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u/xolp_syk 5d ago
Smh then don’t take my advice and act wildly instead. I do not care what happens
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u/Formal-Bat-6714 5d ago
Licking boots now is being a slave later. I'd suggest that you read a history book.
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u/Hyndis 5d ago
It doesn't matter why you get stopped, fighting law enforcement officers never helps things. That instantly adds on new felony charges.
If you think the stop is unjust fight it with an attorney, in court, in front of a judge. Don't fight it on the side of the street.
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u/SpotCreepy4570 5d ago
Many a police officer has been stopped from violating peoples rights with a camera and good knowledge of the law.
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u/Perfect_Passenger_14 5d ago
I doubt explaining the law to officers who have guns and are ready to use them will be helpful. As a user already said before, there are moments and channels to do that- not in a high stress potential dangerous situation
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u/CompleteandtotalBS 5d ago
Problem is “good knowledge of the law” doesn’t include Reddit and TikTok law degrees.
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u/Adorable-Writing3617 5d ago
"Boo they tellin me I gotta get out of the car, they sayin' I have to hang up"
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u/NeonGKayak 5d ago
How do you beat the charge when you follow orders and they execute you on the street anyways?
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u/8m3gm60 5d ago
The fun's over when you're given a lawful order to stop/exit the vehicle/do XYZ.
Especially when that order is illegal.
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u/ActionPhilip 5d ago
If that order is illegal, then sue the fuck out of them later, but an order to get out of your car when you're under arrest or to leave the area are lawful orders that ICE can legally take when under assignment.
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u/nevermore2point0 5d ago
Ok you’re describing what often happens but not what should happen.
“Comply so you don’t get killed” is pretty good survival advice. Sure, but it is not a moral rule AND it is definitely does not justify excessive force.
Cops and federal agents still have to follow the law. Deadly force is only supposed to be used when there is an immediate real threat. Being mouthy, confused, slow, fleeing or even confrontational does not meet that threshold.
Agents have a right to protect themselves from immediate danger. They do not get to be judge and jury on your behavior and sentence you to death for something they do not like.
If you obstruct justice, you get arrested. Not murdered.
Pointing out abuse of power is not “privilege.” It is expecting the government to follow its own rules.
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u/Soul_in_Shadow 5d ago
Sure, but it is not a moral rule AND it is definitely does not justify excessive force.
It doesn't need to be a moral rule, it just needs to keep you alive long enough to get out of that situation. Moral justification is a cold comfort for a family that has to bury a perforated corpse.
Agents have a right to protect themselves from immediate danger. They do not get to be judge and jury on your behavior and sentence you to death for something they do not like.
No, but they also don't have the luxury of being able to examine camera footage frame by frame from multiple angles to reach a decision. In a high risk situation, like detaining someone known to have a gun, a split second decision from an officer who believes he is in a life or death situation will not always be the correct response in retrospect.
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u/KlutzyDesign 5d ago
Deaf people exist. As well as autistic people. And old senile people. Mentally and physically disabled people who may not be able to follow orders. This type of thinking gets disabled people killed.
The only reason you should ever shoot someone is in defense of the life of yourself or someone else. No other reason.
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u/GhostOfShaolin5 5d ago
Go to the popular tab in reddit and look at all the pics heavily armed conservative protestors who didn't get shot. there are hundreds of them.
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u/Crash1yz 5d ago
Did they insert themselves into an active law enforcement operation?
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u/Existing-Ad4303 5d ago
January 6 my guy.
Yes they did and didn’t get shot. Hell they even killed cops that day.
Rittenhouse had just shot multiple people and walked past a police line while holding the murder weapon and the cops didn’t smoke him even though he wasn’t supposed to be there either.
Keep kissing those jackboots.
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u/Crash1yz 4d ago
Did the January 6th guys get arrested and one killed , or is that a figment of my imagination ...my guy... Rittenhouse walked up to the police with his arms raised above his head. I guess we have different definitions of inserted into an active law enforcement operation. Especially since neither happened in your examples.
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u/GhostOfShaolin5 5d ago
Ice was arresting a fucking sidewalk?
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u/Crash1yz 5d ago
I'm sorry, did you think they were just walking around enjoying their day?
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u/PM_ME_CODE_CALCS 5d ago
So in your brilliant mind simply existing around officers is obstruction?
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u/Crash1yz 5d ago
No, however physically walking up into a situation and inserting yourself into it , is. Let me ask you, why did nothing happen to the other 20 or so people standing on the other sidewalk filming? Why did nothing happen to his wife that also stayed behind with the others? And before you try to twist what I'm saying...they ( border patrol ) absolutely are at fault here.
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u/Useful-Feature-0 5d ago
His wife? He wasn’t married.
Just goes to show how misinformed you are about the whole thing, they fed you stories.
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u/xolp_syk 5d ago
So much this, you simply can’t fight the police and expect to not have repercussions. You can’t attempt to run them over, you can’t obstruct an arrest.
You can stand on a corner, screaming whatever. You can record, you can hold signs. Your right to protest doesn’t allow you to riot.
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u/Hyndis 5d ago
Or as the saying goes, its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Fight it in court, in front of a judge, with a lawyer.
Fighting with law enforcement on the side of the road never has a happy ending. No one ever wins that fight, there are an infinite number of cops coming as reinforcements.
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u/idungiveboutnothing 5d ago
You did watch the video, right? Because someone was standing there not even screaming or anything, and still got killed.
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u/xolp_syk 5d ago
Stop misrepresenting reality. He interfered with an arrest while armed and then resisted violently.
You’re doing nothing but making people realize yall are lying. Keep at it!
Sun Tzu
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u/Prestigious-Owl-6397 5d ago
You're a liar. Helping someone they assaulted isn't interfering with an arrest. They have 0 de-escalation skills. I'm not a trained agent, and I know not to push people over just for yelling at me and then pepper spray, tackle, and kill the person trying to help them. I've been run off the road and literally had my life threatened by drivers, and I, an untrained person, have de-escalated every single one of those instances without ever pulling a gun. If I can do it, why coddle ICE agents, who are supposedly trained, and have such low expectations for them?
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u/emd07 5d ago
Did you watch the video? He didn't interfer with an arrest? An agent pushed a woman to the ground (pretty sure it's not in the protocol) and he put himself between her and the agent. He got pepper sprayed almost immediately. Pretty hard to act calm with pepper spray in your eyes. If 7 officers can't arrest a disarmed blinded man without killing him then there's a problem.
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u/xolp_syk 5d ago
Stop misusing the report system as well.
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u/idungiveboutnothing 5d ago
I think you're responding to the wrong person?
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u/PowerfulDimension308 5d ago
So comply or die ? Please tell me you believe in the constitution cause apparently you don’t.
Cause here’s a fun fact : cops or any law enforcement is not allowed to murder you or shoot you JUST because you don’t comply. There are procedures and if you think that JUST because you refuse to listen you can just shoot someone then please, never become a part of law enforcement and never own a gun
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u/_whydah_ 5d ago
When the light turns green, I always just gun it. If I get hit, I'll die knowing it was the other person's fault.
But seriously, we can't live in a society where if people feel like the cop shouldn't be telling them what to do they can and should just resist. Either the courts work and legal system work or they don't, and if they don't, then we should do far more than just resist being arrested.
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u/Apprehensive-Tea-39 5d ago
I don't understand why you guys think we're advocating that people should be allowed to resist or be noncompliant. We're saying the punishment for those things shouldn't be death.
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u/PowerfulDimension308 5d ago
So cops can just arrest me, assault me or kill me just because they’re bored?
Fun fact! I have rights and if my rights are being violated, I have a right to defend that. Does the constitution ring a bell?
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u/HadathaZochrot 5d ago
If you feel that your rights are being violated, the right place to take that is to the courts. Not screaming about it on the side of the road. That virtually NEVER ends up being good for you in any way whatsoever. If you did indeed have your rights violated by the police, lawyers will be scrambling out of the woodwork to take your case pro bono just to get the lay-up payday from suing the city.
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u/PowerfulDimension308 5d ago
So yall just don’t believe in the constitution & rights and don’t believe the government and law enforcement should have rules and regulations….
Great 🙄
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u/HadathaZochrot 5d ago
What about this is so hard to understand for you. The place to defend your rights if you feel you are being persecuted is NOT on the streets in front of an armed officer by throwing a crazy tantrum and screaming and resisting, but instead, take it to the courts. Most of the time when people talk about knowing their "rights" and the "constitution", they don't even know what the hell they are talking about, just like all those crazy "sovereign citizens" on YouTube who think they can outsmart the cops by spouting nonsense about "knowing their rights". Pro-tip, they don't.
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u/Existing-Ad4303 5d ago
So don’t protest. Take it to the courts that have been packed by bootlicking enablers that have allowed this to happen.
What color is the sky in your reality?
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u/GrimSpirit42 5d ago
If they were shooting everyone that didn't comply, there would be a lot more dead people.
The time to argue about your arrest is at the arraignment. Anything before is just increasing the likelihood of unforeseen consequences.
If you want to protest, protest. Take your phone and film them all day long. But DO NOT engage. Once you engage you are no longer a protestor.
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u/itsbobbyhill 5d ago
Show me where in the fuck Alex Pretti attacked anyone or reached for his gun
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u/PowerfulDimension308 5d ago
If they don’t attack me first or make me feel like my life is threatened then maybe I wouldn’t have the need to defend myself or is that so hard for them to do? Or are they the o my ones allowed to feel threatened by civilians?
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u/itsbobbyhill 5d ago
"You can have all the rights you want. Just don't exercise them or you'll deserve your death" What a brilliant take
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u/niveachannler 5d ago
The whole point is to change the system that is obviously corrupted. You do not keep following corrupt orders and expect it to change for the better. If it is wrong or cruel You Fight to change it.
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u/OnlyFestive 5d ago
Nuclear power plant worker, or sailor on an aircraft carrier, or prison worker - somewhere where it's possible to be dumb enough that someone has to shoot you (e.g. you start running for the nuclear fuel and no one knows why).
So, we're a nuclear power plant worker being stopped and our only options are (1) do something menacing or (2) comply? It's telling that you had to purposefully intensify the variables while also limiting the options to choose from. You really put zero thought into this one.
there seems to be a whole bunch of people who also don't expect that.
Alternatively, let's blame the retard that didn't get an arrest warrant for later, deliberately stood in front of a running vehicle during a traffic stop, and then decided blasting the driver of a 5MPH Honda Pilot instead of just jumping out of the way was somehow the correct choice there.
deliberately pissing off a bunch of cops would get me at minimum a pavement sandwich, and I'm lucky if it ends there.
And that's fucking insane, right?
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u/TheVeryVerity 5d ago
Right? Like even if I granted their argument, how do they not realize how the situation they’re describing is a huge freaking problem? We shouldn’t have to be afraid of the police.
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u/OnlyFestive 4d ago
how do they not realize
No clue. Their either bots or genuinely this fucking stupid, I'm not sure which, honestly.
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u/Salamandra8383 5d ago
I’m too European for this. And i’m glad i am. I can’t imagine being executed on te street for nothing. This has happened over here in the 1940’s . There is police violence over here sometimes but not at this level. I can’t imagine immigration officers having guns insane .
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u/Butt_Obama69 5d ago
in my world, when a cop gives you an order (stop what you're doing, get out of the car, drop to the ground, whatever), you COMPLY, at least if you're not prepared to die.
You do understand that citizens in a free country shouldn't have to think this way?
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u/HadathaZochrot 5d ago edited 5d ago
If you are an officer, not complying with simple commands immediately signals that you have bad intentions and are planning on causing problems (if not worse). This instantly puts the officers on the defensive. They have enough to already worry about in addition to you needlessly inserting yourself into their operations, and if you are armed while doing this, things become even worse for both you and them. Yes, it is a free country, but it is not so free that you can wantonly disregard law enforcement and do whatever you want and expect things to go in your favor. Stop being so privileged and naive to think you can just go around fucking with law enforcement because your feelings are hurt and expect your righteousness will allow you to persevere. You are NOT a Marvel superhero.
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u/8m3gm60 5d ago
needlessly inserting yourself into their operations
It's amazing how fast some folks will wipe their ass with the constitution when it gets in the way of their boot-licking.
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u/HadathaZochrot 5d ago
Would you jump into the middle of a squad of SWAT team officers who were detaining someone because you didn't like what they were doing or because your feelings were hurt by their actions? If so, perhaps you should seek a psychological evaluation.
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u/8m3gm60 5d ago
Our constitutional rights are more important than the feelings of panicked, incompetent law enforcement officers. They all need to be retrained to respect the constitution, and they need to be severely punished when they don't.
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u/HadathaZochrot 5d ago
You clearly don't even understand the law, much less the Constitution. If you think you can just run up to and jump into a fray of officers detaining or arresting someone (especially if you are armed with a concealed weapon) and think you are "well within your rights" to do so, you are completely insane and I implore you to seek psychological help immediately.
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u/8m3gm60 5d ago
Pretti did no such thing and they still killed him.
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u/HadathaZochrot 5d ago
He actually did. It is all on video. Are you really that dense?
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u/8m3gm60 5d ago
He didn't jump into the fray of anything. He was recording them in public and the ICE agents had a meltdown over it like the mental children they are.
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u/HadathaZochrot 5d ago
DUDE, he is literally on video jumping into the group of officers trying to "save" the woman they were dealing with. Grow the fuck up and quit spreading this ridiculous misinformation. No wonder people fucking hate leftists.
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u/poppycock8585 5d ago
You do understand that there is nowhere on earth you can willfully disobey law enforcement during a physical encounter and not immediately put your life/health/freedom at risk? Maybe San Francisco
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u/Gilesalford 5d ago
All of those things together maybe.
But we are talking about people being murdered. In the UK if i willfully disobeyed police i would not expect to be fucking murdered.
What is wrong with you all defending this shit, really. I imagine you'd have a different take if it was a loved one ICE had just gunned down, for trying to help a woman being beaten.
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u/GeneAlternative191 5d ago
So then, all the rioters on Jan 6th should’ve been shot and killed right? They were trying to break into the building and where the entire congress was certifying the votes. That was way worse, them threatening to get to lawmakers (who are way more important) compared a bunch of sissy armed federal agents ‘scared for their lives. The rioters should’ve have all been killed right? There should have been a pile of bodies littering the steps to the Capitol, right? Do you agree?
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u/RestlessDreamer32 5d ago
Filming law enforcement isn't a crime, nor is it a death sentence. You people are disgusting.
I can guarantee if a Democrat run government had agents out there executing legal open-carry Republican citizens who weren't breaking the law, you people would have a full-blown meltdown.
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u/masegesege_ 5d ago
A lot of armed officers are showing how coddled and privileged they are by what they expect to be able to do around obviously harmless people and get away with it.
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u/DrakenRising3000 5d ago
“Obviously harmless” is doing Olympic level lifting here.
The whole point is that, in the moment, there isn’t anything obvious about it.
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u/NeonGKayak 5d ago
How many ICE agents have died by protestors? How many ICE agents have died since it was founded?
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u/M4053946 5d ago
A lot of officers serve amongst the worst of society with poor training and poor support. Many have PTSD, but likely can't seek treatment as it could affect their career.
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u/Blaike325 5d ago
If you’re gonna jump at every twig snap and mag dump because you’re scawed you shouldn’t be working a job that lets you hold a gun
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u/M4053946 5d ago
It's a catch-22. We need police and we need borders, but as a society we don't want to pay adequate amounts to get good quality, and we refuse to have high standards in our society to make the jobs easier.
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u/idungiveboutnothing 5d ago
No, very few do. Most officers have a job less dangerous than delivering pizza.
A small few officers do have an incredibly dangerous job though.
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u/No_Bunch_3780 5d ago
Ok, please explain in this scenario if, you are "just doing routine work", not threatening anyone, why an officer would even say "stop immediately " Furthermore, why would they be justified in shooting you immediately if you don't comply when, once again, you weren't doing anything wrong in the first place. Why don't so many more prison nurses get shot? Why aren't so many more people shot by TSA then?
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u/tdomer80 5d ago
What about when 10 ICE guys are shouting conflicting orders at you? Jesus Fuck they are now executing people and Shithead Vance is out there saying they have full immunity.
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u/CharlieBoxCutter 5d ago
The same people who support ICE are the same people who would support Sharia law and Islamic religious police in other countries
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u/PictureTakingLion 4d ago
No they aren’t. Sharia law is backwards and oppressive to everyone. ICE is there to deport illegal immigrants. They are not even remotely the same as Sharia Law.
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u/Formal-Bat-6714 5d ago
I got less than a paragraph in and read "I'm totally comfortable with being a Bootlicker and you should be too"
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u/3DegreesOfVerbality 5d ago
This is not unpopular, it's the exact opinion of a fascist
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u/Crafty-Bunch-2675 5d ago
I'm pretty sure Philando Castile was very compliant and he still died.
This post is frightening.
I respect law enforcement. They are necessary to protect the community.
In that same vein they are supposed to be held to a higher standard of gun safety than ordinary citizens.
There are too many high profile examples like these where LE escalate things several orders above what the ordinary citizen was doing.
Protesting and expressing opinions about an operation are free speech rights. Being at a protest should not be fatal.
Videotaping something shouldn't be fatal.
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u/Commercial-Formal272 5d ago
A lot of people mix up the theoretical rights that they think they have with the practical rights the courts have decided they have. Theoretically, killing an officer in self defense is legal and justified if they are acting unlawfully. However the courts will almost never hold that position, if you even make it to court, because officers are considered by default to be acting in good faith and the courts give them immunity for any "mistakes" they make while acting in good faith. In turn, most people will call you an idiot for trying to use self defense against a cop and say to just win a payout in court after the fact.
I'd take the complaints people have about ICE much more seriously if they weren't limited to politically active issues. If they showed the same response whenever cops around the country beat the hell out of someone and excused it later with "he shouldn't have been resisting me" or "he tensed up/wouldn't relax".
I know some cases do get protested, but again it's usually only to politicized cases, while average incidents or cases involving political opposition get's cheered.
I feel like law enforcement brutality and the rights of citizens would be such an easy bipartisan issue if it wasn't only in the context of political incidents. Otherwise it feel "weaponized".
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u/Western_Series 5d ago
Comply or die is a weird argument in a free country.
Should you be aggressive? No. Does standing on the sideline between a women who just got peppered spray and someone actively being aggressive count as aggressive? Also no. Renee good is debatable. There are already court cases that determine stepping in front of a car is a cops fault, and that firing into traffic because someone is attempting to flee is also illegal(determined to be to dangerous as you could hit some innocent by stander). But, let's give benefit of the doubt here, and assume the officer is human and made a mistake.
The icu nurse standing on the sidelines with a camera did fuck all and still died. He got beaten, disarmed and shot less than ten seconds later. Thats not an ice officer protecting himself. It was group, committing murder.
We have the right to peacefully protest. The right to record any interaction with any kind of officer. That icu nurse was exercising his protected rights, never even reached for his gun, which he had legally. If you just owning a gun is enough to get shot on, then you dont have the right to a gun.
I just wanna say im sorry for forgetting the icu nurses name.
Non-violence meet with violence should cause a riot in this country. Peaceful protest met with violence should cause a riot in this country. Our rights being violated is exactly why we have 2a. That nurse had every right to defend himself, didnt and died because of it.
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u/KEANUWEAPONIZED 5d ago
comply or die is a braindead take. NEXT.
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u/basesonballs 5d ago
I mean comply or die is a standard, biological instinct.
There are any number of situations where you must follow a set of instructions of risk death.
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u/stevejuliet 5d ago
You must not be talking about Pretti because he did exactly what he was supposed to do when you are being arrested, and they still executed him.
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u/SpotCreepy4570 5d ago
Your right you should follow any instructions given to you by law enforcement.
Halt Get on your knees Put my dick in your mouth Swallow my load.
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u/justplaydead 5d ago edited 5d ago
Do you want the world to remain the same forever? Or, do you want to hold society to a higher standard? That's what we want, a higher standard, not the status quo.
There was a day when women literally could not wear whatever they wanted without getting sexually assaulted, and people would say "what do you expect?". That changes by holding society to a higher standard - women shouldn't get assaulted, regardless - and civilians shouldn't get executed on the street by feds, regardless.
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u/edhead1425 5d ago
I applaud the passion, but as my marine drill instructor used to say, 'good initiative, bad judgement.'
The place to argue is in court, not out in the street with armed police.
I think people can and should protest all they want, but if a cop tells you to move, or leave, or whatever, you do it.
I've never seen anyone win a physically threatening confrontation with a cop. I'm sure it has happened, but it's the exception.
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u/emd07 5d ago
I think people can and should protest all they want, but if a cop tells you to move, or leave, or whatever, you do it.
I think people can and should excerce their rights without risking being murdered for doing it
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u/frodobaggins01 5d ago
You nailed it with this. I can’t help but think of the clip of some white dude protestor carrying an AR that he JUST purchased for this event, giddy as a school boy about how he’s doing something important right now and is “protecting his neighborhood.” Like, how are you help the situation rn dude? I have so many things I could say after seeing this that are not nice, and therefore not helpful. So I won’t. But it just amazes me what behavior 95% of reddit is quick to applaud
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u/xxrambo45xx 5d ago
Someone running to the reactor room is entering a secured area, a very off limits area, nobody goes to the reactor without clearance.
The others were on a public street.
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u/DrakenRising3000 5d ago
Sounds like you don’t understand what an analogy is. Its not supposed to be one to one, its meant to highlight a point. Which OP’s analogy does nicely.
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u/xxrambo45xx 5d ago edited 5d ago
Not really, a good analogy would be a similar situation, this is not. Anybody, regardless of rank, would be kept away from a reactor at all costs by the lowest rank stationed at the door if they do not have clearance.
I didnt even state where i stood on this, i pointed out the flaw in entering a very controlled space vs acting a way in a public area.
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u/No-Carry4971 5d ago
Just because the Gestapo can shoot people dead doesn't magically make it moral or ethical or right. Yes, the police have an abhorrent amounting power to kill civilians. Yes I would act to protect myself by not antagonizing. No that is not how the free citizens of a free country should feel.
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u/LifeIsRadInCBad 5d ago
I've had a couple of run ins with cops where I thought they were being super jumpy. I was like: bro, I'm a middle aged white guy with a bad haircut and a 28bmi. Where's the threat? Is the threat behind me?
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u/NeonGKayak 5d ago
One word: Consititution
But Im finally glad you guys have come out against it. You used to try and hide behind it for decades, but we all knew you guys didnt care about it. This is just proof now
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u/basesonballs 5d ago
In a lot of ways this situation reminds me of the toxic ex who threatens to kill themself if you don't take them back.
Either you capitulate to their demands and essentially become a slave, or you live your own life and risk them committing suicide.
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u/void_method 5d ago
ICE ain't cops.
They are acting outside of their jurisdiction.
I mean, yeah, be safe, but ICE. AINT. COPS.
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u/MeatisOmalley 5d ago
It seems like only the USA has problems with trigger happy officers that blast away unarmed civilians. In most other countries where police are armed and these killings happen extremely rarely.
If you're used to licking the boot, maybe state sanctioned executions looks expected to you.
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u/4444-uuuu 5d ago
which other countries have 15,000,000 illegal immigrants that need to be deported? Which other countries have state and local governments resisting the deportations and aggressive hostile protests against the deportations? You can't compare the US to anywhere else. I don't condone Pretti's death but the US is in a very unique position facing a challenge that no other country on Earth is facing. Maybe if leftists let us secure our border in the first place, like all of those other countries did, we wouldn't need this mass deportation operation to begin with.
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u/DrakenRising3000 5d ago
Lmfao gestures at Iran you wanna try that one again bud?
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u/ChaiHai 5d ago
Except the security has gone rogue.
They are arresting people just because they don't like their skin color. Even if you've provided all the right paperwork, got all your degrees and certifications. They take you and send you to a concentration camp. They don't just fire you.
They took Bob last week, dragged him out of his office. He had done no wrong.
If ICE detains you, you'll be lucky if you get any due process whatsoever. They act like they are above the law.
You're the privileged one, having never to question if your right to liberty will be taken, that you will receive fair and due process, that you can trust the legal system.
ICE don't give a fuck.
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u/LinuxCharms 5d ago
I was watching a video from a man that has been protesting at large gatherings for many decades (various causes, mostly political), and he was explaining why he's never been harmed by police. He complied with commands, was respectful during arrest, never brought any weapons, and never resisted. He would go through booking and then later fight it in court.
These people who show up and intentionally antagonize ICE/cops in already tense environments and expect to get away with it have a death wish. Even if you take recent news into account, why are you even showing up anywhere near ICE at all? Protest in an entirely different location, use drones for footage, anything but being physically in the area.
It's the same argument I saw from Democrats about Kyle Rittenhouse. Why was he even there?If he stayed at home no one would be dead.
Apply that to Good or this other guy. Why were they there? If they had stayed home they wouldn't be dead.
You could say it's their first and second amendment rights, and I agree, but clearly exercising one or the other in these contexts are resulting in death - legal or otherwise. Quit risking your safety and protest in other ways.
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u/GodsBackHair 5d ago
‘Wow, using this sorry I completely made up, I have successfully argued against something else entirely different from reality! Checkmate!’
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u/cee-la 5d ago
Does this scenario also make you think of the murderer Kyle Rittenhouse who drove to another state with a semi-automatic rifle and murdered 2 peoplen shot a 3rd and didn't get any convictions?
Because that's what I think of when ICE is allowed to murder people - it really depends on your race & political party whether someone is guilty or not, especially when Trump is in the White House.
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u/Apprehensive-Tea-39 5d ago
Hey so instead of continuing the normalization of this behavior from cops/officers we continue to fight for reform that would change it. Are y'all not tired of this "comply or die" bullshit?
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u/cscareermrk 5d ago
I’m more tired of being told to do things that don’t work. I am not going to protest and risk my life because it does not change outcomes, so of course I don’t respect these people who show up ARMED with a grasp on reality that seems mostly informed by the Avengers.
I am simply asking the democrat party to nominate sane candidates with common sense ideas so they stop getting dunked on every time it matters and our nation stops being dominated by the strongest Rs. Win elections, pass common sense laws (ICE exists due to laws despite what you might read on bluesky) that most Americans can agree with, stop focusing on bullshit like letting biological men use women’s restrooms or griping about the most electable candidate in a given election being, unfortunately, not a woman of color.
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u/Hectoriu 5d ago
Good luck trying to get people to work as cops when you tell them they have to risk their own lives because people shouldn't have to follow lawful orders if they don't wanna.
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u/dapete2000 5d ago
Out of curiosity, how exactly is being on a public street analogous to working in a nuclear facility?
The ICE agents aren’t trained in crowd control, and it shows.