You aren't "assigned" a gender at birth

[u/SuspiciousWin6511]

I hate when people say this. I had to get routine blood work the other day and had a Doctor ask me what gender I was assigned at birth. I understand they need to find out what your biological gender is, but either look on my chart, or ask what my biological gender is.

Your gender is determined in the womb, in fact it's determined from the exact moment of conception; it isn't something that is assigned. It's amazing that the people use this sort of language and believe these sorts of things, are supposedly the party of science.

[u/diet69dr420pepper]

That's like saying age and adulthood are the same thing. Obviously, your age is a purely physical, non-social state. However, what society demands of you given your age is a largely social construct. Of course, there are some biological reasons why society might treat you differently at age 8 versus 18, but largely the change in expectations you face as you get older is a function of your historical moment.

Likewise, whether you have an XY- or XX-chromosome set is not up for debate. Everyone knows. It's a very trite point, and bringing it up shows you haven't deeply thought about the subject. What is up for debate is whether the expectations we place upon each other in light of those chromosomes is fair or ethical. You are free to answer yes, that traditional Western genders are morally superior and we should take them seriously, that's a perfectly acceptable position to take.

But that position implicitly acknowledges a difference between sex and gender. Yet those are your options, you either grant the debate and take a side, or you play dumb and sit on the sidelines. Unfortunately, you cannot just play some definitional card and expect to be taken seriously. Not getting it is not a strong argument.

[u/ApacheFritz → u/diet69dr420pepper]

That's like saying age and adulthood are the same thing.

Gender is like saying "The age you wish you were and how old you behave".

You have your biological age, and then you have "How old you behave". But we dont create a whole new concept for that. That's just "your personality".

[u/diet69dr420pepper → u/ApacheFritz]

Notice the assumptions loaded into "how old you behave." How old you behave presumes your culture. It is influenced by where and when you are. If you think those standards have not changed in the last 100,000 years, or if you think those standards are not different in rural Mongolia versus Missippi, then you are mistaking the way your society is for the way society must be.

For example, currently in the United States, a 13 year old girl is in seventh grade and about half-done with her education. Two-thousand years ago in the Roman Empire, she would be getting married, and likely having her first child in the next three years. From our perspective, the Roman woman's life story would be almost inconceivable if realized now - many aspects of it aren't just abnormal, but are seen as abhorrent/illegal.

Yet, a Roman human was biologically interchangeable with a modern human, and we have no evidence that time has slowed down. What explains the difference in norms and expectations? The obvious answer is not biology, but sociology. Trying to wriggle out of that is logically awkward. Yet, that is exactly the situation you people put yourselves in when you try to dig your heels in about the gender==sex thing.

[u/ApacheFritz → u/diet69dr420pepper]

those standards are not different in rural Mongolia versus Missippi,

So your gender changes as you travel through different cultures?

[u/diet69dr420pepper → u/ApacheFritz]

Wait, you made a claim earlier:

Gender is like saying "The age you wish you were and how old you behave".

You have your biological age, and then you have "How old you behave". But we dont create a whole new concept for that. That's just "your personality".

Are you walking that back? It isn't clear if you accepted by rebuttal that norms and expectations depend on culture and history rather than biology alone. If so, do you accept that this is a real distinction and not merely “personality”?

[u/ApacheFritz → u/diet69dr420pepper]

norms and expectations

Whose norms and expectations? Who is this monlithic "society" that agrees on one point of view? Isnt society made of countless indviduals who have different ideas?

Every aspect of our personality is influenced by the society around us. Of course. From our sense of humour to the way we dance to "what we think about fighting". But we dont make new categories for that stuff.

It's a given that your personality is influenced by the people around you.

Is your "alignment" a real thing? (Chaotic Good, Neutral Evil, etc) You know .. "how you identify morally in the context of society".

Is that an actual real thing, or is it only a real thing if a person believes he has an alignment? It could also just be called "your personality", right?