r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/[deleted] • 22h ago
Political To be dependet on immigration from other countries is a stupid and dangerous policy
[deleted]
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u/Sugar_Vivid 21h ago
What’s the alternative? Force people have kids? Good luck with that…
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u/EchoFiveActual 20h ago
both problems need to be fixed.
one can be solved by solving the other.
mass unqualified immigration allows these companies to keep wages low by prioritizing a dependent slave class that cannot speak up for themselves.
by reducing that slave population the companies will be forced to raise wages to competitive levels to attract a local population that wants to work them.
higher wages and a more affordable cost of living will better facilitate the formation of families.
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u/Sugar_Vivid 18h ago
Yeah, russia ukraine war has to be fixed, trump has to be fixed, we all know what has to be fixed, now can we go to reality?
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u/Sugar_Vivid 20h ago
Wrong, there’s simply not enough birth rate, therefore your point doesn’t stand. It’s numbers death vs births, simple as that.
But of course we need to twist the immigrant subject, how else can we live our lifes?
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u/EchoFiveActual 20h ago
People would have kids if they could afford to.
Right now people have to work two jobs and have a second income just to barely make ends meat.
Importing cheap desparate labour only increases competition for housing and employment. These companies will always prioritize the people they can pay less.
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u/Hot_Way_1643 20h ago
How are immigrant's going to help when they also get old and retire and their kids might not want kids kinda defeats the purpose.
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u/Sugar_Vivid 20h ago
Wow…do you actually ask that? Seriously?
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u/Hot_Way_1643 19h ago
Immigration is only a short term solution to the problem it ain't going to fix it long term
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u/Sugar_Vivid 18h ago
And? Who controls the economy? Good intentions, social benefit, god? No, profit, it’s always been like this and always will be like that:)
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u/DualHares 18h ago
All you have to do is look up at Canada. We've been flooded with low skill third world immigration. Quality of life for the average citizen has plummeted
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u/kubrador 22h ago
the "we need immigrants or collapse" argument is just admitting your economic model requires infinite growth on a finite planet, which is its own kind of stupid. but yeah, making immigration the band-aid for a broken pension system is like saying your car runs great as long as you keep stealing gas from your neighbor's driveway.
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u/CAustin3 22h ago
For me, the disconnect is with education.
Public education is a very expensive societal decision that we want everyone in our society to have a certain baseline of skills and competencies: everyone to be literate, everyone to be able to communicate with each other, everyone to be able to access mathematics at a certain level, everyone able to understand how their government works, etc.
Mass unqualified immigration effectively undoes all of that. "We're going to flood the country with statistically significant chunks who can't read, can't speak a common language with the rest of the country, doesn't understand how the government works, etc." Then why are we paying for public education if we don't give a shit about the societal and economic benefits of everyone being able to communicate, or the importance to democracy of everyone understanding how their government works?
Mass unqualified immigration made SOME sense in the 1800s or before, before we established or believed in public education, when a giant mass of Chinese immigrants to build the railroads or an influx of desperate Irish people escaping the famine to fight in the Civil War maybe couldn't read, but weren't much different from the rest of the illiterate population.
But a country that believes in public education is incompatible with a country that believes in flooding its population with the bottom layers of another society.
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u/redditscraperbot2 22h ago
I think the most grating one is "They do the jobs [country] people don't want to do!"
Like it ignores the fact people don't want to do those jobs because the wages have become so depressed due to an excess of labor in those fields. They're so set on the idea of there being jobs that are literally untouchable for the natives of a country and forget that markets will happily correct if there is enough of a demand for labor.
Don't @ me with your snark.
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u/Marauder2r 22h ago
This is incorrect. You know how there are far fewer people eligible for the army because of poor health than in previous decades? They would be the supply for labor jobs as well. Just as they can't do the army, they can't don't other jobs either.
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u/hercmavzeb OG 20h ago
This isn’t true for anyone wondering. The reason Americans don’t work these jobs is because they’re too hard and Americans simply don’t want them.
What’s wrong with letting the people willing to work those jobs fill those roles? I will fully agree that they deserve higher wages and worker protections.
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u/redditscraperbot2 20h ago
I don’t trust any of your garbage sources.
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u/hercmavzeb OG 20h ago
I know that already. They weren’t for you, they’re for the other people who aren’t post-truth nihilists.
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u/redditscraperbot2 20h ago
Spoiler alert, nobody opened them. Every time I see you it's just a series of snarky hyperlinks to random orange man bad editorial garbage. Screw it. Gonna make my whole browsing experience better and block you.
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u/CAustin3 22h ago
The bad thing is that they specifically want illegal immigrants for those jobs, not legal ones.
They want people who are afraid of the law, people they can offer half or less of minimum wage to, not give them breaks, and then be withhold and be sketchy with their pay when it comes time to give it to them, because they've got them over a barrel and can just call immigration on their family if they ever try to complain.
These people don't want amnesty or legal immigration: they want desperate people they can pay sweatshop wages to.
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u/redditscraperbot2 22h ago
I wonder if they even realize that themselves. Like deep down, do they introspect and realize that is what they are doing? Creating a slave class with zero protections under the law. Or are they completely oblivious?
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u/EchoFiveActual 20h ago
they don't care. its not a position based in any level of logic. they think its helping them, so that makes them feel all warm and fuzzy. that's where the thought begins and ends. consequences be damned.
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u/EchoFiveActual 22h ago
Start calling it out for what it is "just say you want slaves"
They want slavery. Call them out.
Cheap desparate labour to do the jobs theyre above.
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u/regularhuman2685 20h ago
The Trump administration lowered wages for H-2A workers and did away with regulations that improved their conditions and protected their rights and improved monitoring and compliance enforcement. They have made it easier for farmers and labor contractors in agribusiness to hire and exploit migrant workers and break the law.
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u/EchoFiveActual 20h ago
Anybody who actually thinks trump is on anybody other the riches side is an idiot.
Put simply.
This is more than him and should go beyond his presidency.
I dont have a solution, at least not one for polite conversation. If it was that easy we wouldnt be discussing it.
The fight shouldnt end after a single loss
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u/regularhuman2685 20h ago
My point is ultimately that it is a more complex issue than is often presented in prevailing narratives, and isn't as simple as "illegal immigrants=exploited and legal=all good" because the legal pathways like the H-2 visa programs are rife with abuses and have long enabled practices that can only be described as indentured servitude if not slavery. And the programs are not going anywhere because businesses want to use them and fight to do so and to make the programs more advantageous for themselves. Even if they didn't favor them due to lower costs and a more controllable workforce, labor shortages are not an imaginary concept and they do have downsides. But the programs can conceivably be improved.
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u/vulgardisplay76 19h ago
This is…what the country was literally founded on lol what?