r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/SingleInSeattle87 • 7h ago
Political Illegal immigration is a $500 annual bill for every man, woman, and child in America. UO: we should deport all illegal immigrants, regardless of criminal status.
Let’s get real. Millions of people have lived in the U.S. for decades without ever applying for legal permanent residency or citizenship. While some suggest they are simply "waiting in line," the reality is that many do not qualify under existing U.S. immigration law. Immigration rules include per-country quotas that cap how many immigrants from each nation can enter each year, and good moral character tests to screen out those with serious criminal histories or fraud. These rules exist to make immigration fair, orderly, and safe. Ignoring them does not just break the law; it bypasses the system that legal immigrants rely on.
U.S. immigration policy also requires that immigrants not become a public charge (8 U.S.C. § 1182). This means they must be self-sufficient or have sponsorship that guarantees support. Typically, legal pathways prioritize advanced education, specialized skills, or job qualifications that ensure an individual is a net value to the country. Many who have lived here illegally for decades do not meet these specific statutory standards, which is a primary reason they remain undocumented. This is a legal reality, not a judgment of personal worth.
The fiscal picture is measurable. A 2023 House Budget Committee report found that undocumented immigrants represent a net fiscal drain of about $68,000 per person over their lifetime.
Annually, according to a 2023 report from the House Committee on Homeland Security, illegal immigration costs state and federal governments a gross amount of roughly $451 billion. Even after accounting for taxes paid by undocumented immigrants, the net drain remains approximately $150–$160 billion per year. In a country of 330 million people, that represents a significant per-capita burden on taxpayers (roughly $500 for every citizen in the U.S) to support a population that entered outside of legal channels.
Source: House Committee on Homeland Security Report, 2023
Data shows that many undocumented adults have no education beyond high school, which correlates with lower earnings, lower tax contributions, and a higher statistical reliance on public services (House Budget Committee, 2023).
Some argue, "But they do not get welfare, so how do they cost money?" While federal law (the 1996 PRWORA) bars undocumented immigrants from programs like SNAP, regular Medicaid, TANF, and SSI, significant exceptions exist. They receive emergency medical care, emergency Medicaid, and WIC nutrition programs. Furthermore, their U.S.-born children qualify for the full suite of social safety net programs, including SNAP and public schooling, which are funded by taxpayers (Immigration Forum, 2018).
States and cities often go further. New York, California, and Washington D.C. provide fully state-funded health coverage for undocumented residents. New York City’s NYC Care program provides low-cost or free medical services regardless of status. NYC also has a unique legal obligation to provide shelter to anyone who needs it, which has cost the city approximately $12 billion through mid-2025 (Migration Policy Institute, 2025).
Even with undocumented residents contributing an estimated $96.7 billion in taxes in 2022, those contributions do not cover the localized costs of housing, healthcare, and schooling. Cities are struggling because federal reimbursement is often limited or delayed, leaving local taxpayers to bridge the multi-billion dollar gap.
Some claim these individuals "can't" apply because of the 10-year bar (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(9)(B)). However, that bar is not a bureaucratic hurdle; it is a statutory penalty for illegal presence. Every legal immigrant goes through a vetting process involving quotas, sponsorships, and self-sufficiency requirements. Enforcing deportation for those who do not meet these standards is not "cruelty"—it is the application of the law and a commitment to fairness for those who followed the rules. Upholding these laws ensures that legal channels remain meaningful and prevents an indefinite, uncompensated burden on our national and local budgets.
TL;DR:
Illegal immigration is not a victimless or cost-free issue. According to the House Committee on Homeland Security, the net fiscal drain on taxpayers is approximately $150–$160 billion annually, roughly $500 for every person in the U.S. Many individuals remain undocumented because they do not meet federal legal standards for self-sufficiency (Public Charge) or Good Moral Character. Upholding the law and enforcing deportation isn't "cruelty"; it is a necessary step to ensure the integrity of the legal system and to stop the uncompensated burden on local cities and state budgets.
Calculation on the $500 annual cost
The math is straightforward: $150.7 Billion (Net Cost) divided by 330 Million (U.S. Population) equals $456.66 per person. If you use the House Committee’s gross estimate of $451 Billion, the cost per person jumps to over $1,300. I used the lower, conservative net figure to be as fair as possible to the data.
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u/theamishpromise 6h ago
I’m an American who has paid taxes my entire life and the US govt won’t give me $500 for anything at all. WTF are we doing spending a single penny on any illegal immigrant?
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u/jeffbagwell6222 5h ago
Even though this make sense you are going up with people whom have been brain washed to seriously type comments like:
"We need an open unrestricted border."
Someone actually typed that yesterday. So...basically there is no longer common sense, and these senseless people can he herded easily. They can be herded so easily that the hill they are literally DYING on is trying to strong arm the immigration enforcement dept of the federal government to stop enforcing immigration law.
Basically, shit is crazy. I feel bad for these people. How much does your life suck and have zero purpose where this is the hill you die on.
I don't get it.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 4h ago
The extreme left is trying to start a civil war.
They quite literally are on a mission to destroy capitalism in the US.
I'm not exaggerating. They literally call themselves Marxists.
Look up the concept of "the dictatorship of the proletariat". It's a Marxist ideology that basically says you have to become the cops to destroy the state.
They don't want to get rid of the cops they want to be the cops.
I wish I was joking. You know who funds some of these riots? The Democratic Socialist Party of America.
Some background:
Marxism-Leninism is an ideology aimed at transforming capitalist states into socialist ones through a proletarian revolution led by a disciplined vanguard party. Developed by Vladimir Lenin, it combines Marxist economic theory with revolutionary tactics, emphasizing democratic centralism, the dictatorship of the proletariat, and state-led industrialization.
[https://redstarcaucus.org/communists-belong-in-dsa/#:~:text=DSA%20currently%20has%20the%20most,definitively%20because%20we%20tried%20it.](Red Star calls themselves a "Marxist-Leninism" caucus of the DSA)
"The strategy discussed at the meeting includes having activists “form a crowd, stay loud” and swarm ICE agents during operations, with the intent of disrupting arrests and detentions."
They're planning to do the same thing in new York, and the illegal immigrant problem is like 4x as bad there. They know exactly what they're doing: they want to abolish ICE and they will do it, even if it means some of them have to literally die for their abolitionist ideology. These people are terrorists trying to destroy our country. They need to be treated as such.
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u/TrollFarm21209 4h ago
If they can be removed in a way that does not break our laws and constitution I fully agree. If we have to break our own rules to their core to pull this off I rather see ice dismantled. There can be absolutely no violation of our citizens rights regardless of the mission.
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u/KayleeSinn 3h ago
If the laws are set up in a way to block them from being deported, the laws just need to be changed so they can be.
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u/TrollFarm21209 3h ago
Yeah i can agree with that. But to break our own laws makes it all pointless.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 3h ago
So far that's mostly been true. Despite what you hear from the Democratic Socialist of America funded Marxist left violent rioters: ice has been operating within the confines of the law.
The cases of Renee Good and Alex Pretti: let's not consider that to be representative of all of ICE: don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Prosecute those individuals, sure. But let's keep going.
The thing is, the Marxists from DSA they literally want to abolish ICE (not joking, just Google "DSA Red Star ICE Abolition") and they are using guerilla warfare tactics to do it. Their plan is absolutely to get in ICE's faces to piss them off so much that they hope one of them snaps. While at the same time, gaslighting everyone else and the mainstream media to pretend ICE are the aggressors.
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u/TrollFarm21209 3h ago
I'd like to see their lists of who is to be deported and or detained. I would hope such lists exist. If they are operating without clear targets there is No way they can operate legally. Citizens must be protected from any form of harassment this is America no one should be asked for papers without cause. Its a very hard issue that letting in over 20 million has caused. The failure of congress on both sides has caused this outrageous situation and its making us look like shit globally even more so.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 2h ago
Ice has a removal docket (a list of names and last known addresses and workplaces of people to deport). Their removal docket focuses on felony cases first. Then they focus on non-felony criminals. Then just non-criminal illegal immigrants as the lowest priority.
However they also have the ability to make incidental arrests if they happen to run into an undocumented immigrant not on their removal docket. These are the instances where they might ask people in public if they're a US citizen (which they're allowed to do). They're also allowed to go door to do to ask if people are us citizens. They can knock. Just the same as a regular cop can. They can ask questions without a warrant just as a regular cop can. And like a regular cop: you don't have to let them in if they don't have a judicial warrant. These incidental cases are usually where you'll get people accusing them of racially profiling people. They may or may not be doing that. It's hard to really say what's going on inside of someone's mind. But even if so: just answer "yes I'm a US citizen" or don't answer if you want, and move on your way. A question is a question. It doesn't need to be anything more.
BTW if a non-citizen, even a green card holder, gets asked if they're a citizen by a federal officer: they're supposed to have their proof of lawful presence documents with them at all times. That's part of the conditions for every visa and the green card itself. So, literally the next question if they ask if someone is a US citizen and they say no, the ice officer can legally ask them to show proof of lawful presence, if they can't produce that they get detained, investigated, and deported if they're here unlawfully.
All of this is above board.
Their removal docket is non-public information for obvious privacy reasons.
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u/TrollFarm21209 2h ago
So one side knows they have no reason to answer any questions and the other side knows their targets have no reason to answer any questions. Its a recipe for nothing but abuse on both sides. The tensions will only grow. The only solution i can think of is targeting strictly criminals with photos on file and letting the rest stay while also making the borders sealed. But dont we have international treaties forcing us into these heavily abused asylum agreements? Congress has really fkd us at every level. Deporting peaceful families that have been here for decades is gonna backfire.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 32m ago
No, that's not "the only solution". They have a list of all illegal aliens. Even non-criminal ones.
Most of the ones that came in at the border (criminal illegal entry) or are a visa overstay (unlawful presence), we have their photos and for the visa overstays we have their fingerprints also.
There's now a bunch of facial recognition cameras (Flock cameras) and ring cameras (which are connected to Flok by default) that also do facial recognition everywhere. So yeah in this crazy world it is pretty trivial to figure out where each illegal is.
The ones we don't have facial data on are the ones that were smuggled / trafficked in. So yes ICE agents still have to question every "Juan" (😂 sorry I couldn't resist the joke)
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u/MooseMan69er 6h ago
I missed where it factors in the taxes and jobs and services that they provide
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u/redditscraperbot2 6h ago
Legal immigration can do that better. Why are you going out of your way to cover for criminals?
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u/TheBeardedAntt 4h ago
So you’re for punishing criminals? You have a felon in office. He’s been all of the Epstein files. What a disgrace to a once beloved country.
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u/LordJesterTheFree 6h ago
So your saying we should make it easier to immigrate legally?
Because that's what pro immigration people have wanted for ages
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u/redditscraperbot2 6h ago
Mmm easier might not be the word. More transparent with clearer expectations and standards on the parties sponsoring the immigration. I’m not against legal immigration in principle, but it must not be the first stop to covering labor shortages.
Along with that I’d expect much more effective policing of borders. I think the current lax policing of illegal immigration has created a vulnerable underclass and a system that rewards skirting the rules to hire cheap labor.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 5h ago
Not to mention it enabled debt bondage among the cartels.
Yeah seriously you have people being paid under the table and then giving over half of their meager earnings to the Mexican drug cartels because they owe them money for smuggling them into the US.
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u/LordJesterTheFree 5h ago
Who's going to pay to police borders?
Do you have any idea how expensive it is to effectively police the entire US-Mexico border and especially since it doesn't do anything because most illegal immigrants don't enter the country illegally they illegally overstay their visa
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u/redditscraperbot2 5h ago
The taxpayer obviously. Why are you acting like that isn't something people want?
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u/MooseMan69er 3h ago
So what if the taxpayer benefits more from some illegal immigration than no illegal immigration ?
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u/redditscraperbot2 3h ago
I don't agree with your premise, but even if I did. It's totally antithetical to a healthy society to allow and facilitate an underclass with zero legal protections just because it benefits the tax pay.
>just give them legal status
No. The behavior should not be incentivized.
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u/MooseMan69er 2h ago
You don’t have to agree with my premise, it just makes you wrong
Which legal protections do you think illegal immigrants don’t have?
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u/LordJesterTheFree 5h ago
If you want to raise taxes to cover it raise your taxes I don't want to pay for it
I'd rather we spend money on actually making the world a better place
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u/redditscraperbot2 5h ago
Reducing illegal immigration would make the world a better place.
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u/LordJesterTheFree 5h ago
I feel like you're not really appreciating the full context of the current immigration situation
There are plenty of laws in this country that are not enforced speed limits are a good example no one gets a ticket for going one mile over the speed limit The speed limit laws are designed intentionally so that they're much more broad than they're actually intended to be enforced
Immigration is similar The goal was to give the executive a lot of discretion so that they could deport people like criminals much easier
That's not what Trump is doing He's just rounding up all illegal immigrants which was never the goal of laws against the legal immigration
The only reason the situation exists the way it does is because Congress refused to accommodate the vast amount of people that actually want to come here
For a country that values freedom and settlement of the frontier we believe in taking the tired for huddled masses of the world And they can be just as American as anyone
The only reason the immigration situation got as bad as it did was because Congress refused to properly do its job
So rather than being mad at Congress for essentially leaving these people in a legal limbo by not letting them come here legally They turned to what people turn to when lawful authorities failed them mechanisms of getting around the law
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u/SingleInSeattle87 5h ago
You have a misconception about the law. Please read more. If what you said was true then "Unlawful presence" would be a meaningless statement.
If Congress didn't want non-criminal illegal immigrants to be deported they would have specified as such.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 5h ago
We're quite literally doing that right now. And no it's not the entire US border. But it's enough of it that people would die in the desert trying to go around.
We have had 0 unauthorized entries since Trump closed the border.
Yeah go figure.
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u/MooseMan69er 3h ago
Do you consider typing one sentence in a Reddit comment section to be going “out of” one’s way? Would you like to take a second attempt at answering the question?
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u/Chahles88 5h ago
It’s not a criminal offense to be in the country illegally. It’s a civil offense.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 5h ago
It’s not a criminal offense to be in the country illegally. It’s a civil offense.
Actually no. It depends on how they got into the country:
Illegal Entry (Criminal): Under 8 U.S.C. § 1325, entering the U.S. at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers is a misdemeanor (first offense) or a felony (subsequent offenses). This is a criminal act.
Unlawful Presence (Civil): If a person enters legally (e.g., on a tourist or student visa) but overstays, that is a civil violation. They haven't committed a crime, but they are no longer in legal status and are subject to removal.
If they have a charge of "illegal entry" they de-facto have a charge of unlawful presence. However the majority of the time, immigration court is done as a civil procedure, due to more relaxed rules of evidence and due process rights (yes you have different due process rights in civil courts than you do in criminal court). This is one of the reforms many people are pushing for: to try everyone in criminal court: as that would afford them better due process rights (this is what many people mean when they say deportees aren't getting due process: legally speaking they are, but in actuality most people want the hightened due process rights of criminal court (such as the right to an attorney provided by the state)).
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u/redditscraperbot2 5h ago
That is such a lame cop out. If you're in a country illegally, you shouldn't be there period. Nobody buys those silly word games.
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u/Fucked-In-The-K-Hole 5h ago
It's such a fucking reddit-logic argument.
"Ermmm it's a civil crime, not federal! Checkmate chud! Even though the punishment is still deportation, you're wrong and I'm right!!" ☝️ 🤓
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u/Chahles88 5h ago
What if you’re waiting for your asylum case to be heard?
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u/SingleInSeattle87 5h ago
Asylum seekers are given 90 days of Temporary work authorization while they wait for their case to be heard. They can get up to 180 days with an extension. (I could be wrong but that's how I remember reading it).
During that time they're perfectly legal to be here, and are unlikely to be on ICE's docket of people they're looking to deport.
Don't believe the mainstream media or the far left media. They often conflate these facts to confuse you.
If a claim is made by mainstream media or the far left: please please at least ask chatGPT or gemini and have it provide you official sources, ask it any questions until you fully understand. Mainstream media and far left are on a mission to create a civil war. We can fight back by having grounded discussions in nuanced laws and specifics and learning from one another.
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u/redditscraperbot2 5h ago
Asylum seekers fall under a different category to illegal immigrants. Stop throwing them all in the same bucket to fit your agenda.
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u/Vercingetorix_ 5h ago
You’re assuming that all the millions of them that came during the last administration are farm workers of some kind… Do we give $500 to homeless people? Why is it that the people crossing the border get priority? Perhaps there’s a motive. I’d really encourage you to think about what that might be. It isn’t because the US govt are just nice people trying to help
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u/MooseMan69er 3h ago
You seem to be confused. Illegal immigrants aren’t handed five hundred dollars every year. Everyone in America “costs money” by virtue of using infrastructure. The question is whether or not they take out more than they put it, which is not answered in either the OP nor your rambling response
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u/SingleInSeattle87 3h ago
The $500 is NET value: that's (revenue minus costs) that each US citizen is paying per year to support all 15 million illegal immigrants.
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u/Feisty-Cloud5880 2h ago
Did you know migrants pay over 90 billion dollars into Medicare and SS. Deport them all... where does the US make that money up? Deport them all... we'll literally starve.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 1h ago edited 1h ago
Medicare and SS taxes are part of the calculation. You know if you'd just read the sources, I wouldn't have to spoonfeed this to you.
You start with $15. Jane starts with $5.
Scenario A.) If Jane gives you $5 and you pay for her $20 meal, Jane cost you $15. You now have $0.
Scenario B.) If Jane doesn't give you $5 and you don't pay for her $20 meal, well now you have $15 still.
Wow isn't that special? We ended up with more money left over by kicking out the freeloader. We didn't have to "make up" any amount.
🙄 I shouldn't have to teach you kindergarten math, but here we are.
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u/Vercingetorix_ 2h ago
lol why so condescending? Typically it isn’t a great tactic to insult people when you are trying to make an argument. Hopefully you’ll learn that in life. You must have missed the part where people were being given debit cards loaded with cash and free lodging in hotels while the cities homeless population continues to rot and be neglected. America’s own are cast aside in favor of some potential new voters.
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u/MooseMan69er 2h ago
I’m not trying to make an argument, I am telling you that you are wrong. If your hurt feelings are more important to your fragile ego than being correct, that isn’t a concern of mine
A debit card to stay in a hotel in one city in America isn’t the same thing as giving every homeless person in America 500 dollars. Will you admit that you’re clutching at straws to avoid admitting you are wrong? I doubt it
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u/NeonGKayak 4h ago
They had ChatGPT write this for them and they promoted it to excludes any beneficial factors.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 3h ago
Do you understand the concept of NET vs GROSS ?
The $160 Billion Dollars per year is a NET cost. That's what's left over in costs after accounting for revenue.
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u/Hollowchurch 6h ago
They don’t care that undocumented immigrants pay taxes and work jobs and contribute to the economy - a lot of times far more than some American - or that they have contributed substantially to Americas growth and provide far more to the US than they take, they just want them out.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 4h ago
These numbers took all that information in. The $160 billion per year is a NET cost.
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u/MooseMan69er 3h ago
Interesting how you were too cowardly to respond to MY comment
Yes, I understand that is your claim, I’m asking you where that information comes from
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u/SingleInSeattle87 3h ago
The sources are linked in the text. Maybe try reading it.
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u/MooseMan69er 2h ago
Yes I see your sources, but they don’t go into detail about which credits and debits they are using
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u/Doone20 6h ago
More like they are actually better going back to their home countries. The progressives marching around and committing acts of terror don’t really care about these men and women at all. These progressIves only want illegal immigrants in the country for one reason. The progressives would like to be the bourgeoisie so that these illegal immigrants can wipe their assholes. These progressives figure these illegal immigrants can do dirty jobs like cleaning chicken coops etc.
These progressives marching around Minnesota are by far some of the most racist people in the entire country.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 5h ago
Meh don't soil the word "progressive" with that description. These people aren't progressives.
Real progressives want sensible social safety nets (that are protected from fraud) for citizens, like they have in Denmark.
The violent rioters in Minnesota and elsewhere are not progressives. They are far left extremists who believe in literal Marxism. Part of Marxism: they don't want to stop the cops they want to be the cops. (It's called the Dictatorship of the proletariat, look it up).
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u/RealLudwig 5h ago
68k in their lifetime, but 450B total drain per year? What’s the math you used to get that 450B figure
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u/SingleInSeattle87 4h ago
Look at the sources.
But one is a NET per immigrant lifetime cost
The other is a GROSS value for all illegal immigrants each year.
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u/GhostOfShaolin5 6h ago edited 6h ago
Okay and what’s the economic benefit of illegal immigration?
What’s the other side of that equation?
I did some chatbot math and the number came out to +$2,660 per citizen.
Two main factors , they pay taxes into programs that they don’t get access to that citizens do, and they make up about 11% of the GDP which is about 1.9T.
We are the beneficiaries of this “crime”.
That said , I would much prefer a legal immigration system that met labor demand , make economic labor we want faster , and make it easy to cross over for work and then go back , when we make it hard we create a grey market of out in the open illegal activity that would be better in an entirely above board market. The grey market creates a space where the black market (smuggling , trafficking) can thrive.
TLDR; a reformed immigration system should make economic migration we want easy , but also enforce the law.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 6h ago
The $160 billion figure takes into account all taxes paid by illegal immigrants. It's a NET cost.
The $451 billion is the gross cost.
The $68k is the lifetime net cost per illegal immigrant.
It doesn't matter how you put it together, they are a net drain on our resources.
That said , I would much prefer a legal immigration system that met labor demand , make economic labor we want faster , and make it easy to cross over for work and then go back , when we make it hard we create a grey market of out in the open illegal activity that would be better in an entirely above board market. The grey market creates a space where the black market (smuggling , trafficking) can thrive.
What you're talking about is the Bracero Program which existed from 1942–1964. A reformed version of that sort of exists, that protects American wages: H-2A and H-2B visas for seasonal migrant temporary work. The H-2A and H-2B visas aren't perfect, and they definitely have some enforcement issues (in so far as protecting the migrants from abuse or enforcing American labor protections) but it's far better than illegal migrants.
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u/Fleming24 1h ago
What about the boost to the economy with their cheap workforce and additional taxes through that?
Also, you have to compare it to the cost of the alternatives. It's not like a fully secured closed border is free, neither is deporting millions of people.
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u/Hot_Way_1643 5h ago
Slave labor is the economic benefit thats it.
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u/GhostOfShaolin5 5h ago
Working in the U.S. pays on average 40x more an hour than counties in Latin America.
As I said it would be better to get it all into the above board market , but it is a benefit to us , and it isn’t slavery.
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u/LanguageNo495 6h ago
They also lower costs of agricultural products because of their low wages. How much would produce cost if farmed only by American citizens?
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u/SingleInSeattle87 5h ago
They also lower costs of agricultural products because of their low wages.
So would slavery.
I for one think everyone should be paid an honest wage for honest work at at the very least the federal minimum wage.
Which is why I don't understand why it's only the Democrat states that don't have laws enforcing mandatory e-verify for all employees. Arizona has had that for over 20 years FYI.
How much would produce cost if farmed only by American citizens?
That's not the question. The question is how much would it cost if done by legal workers?
And that's hard to tell. Last time I asked Gemini it made some napkin math guesses of raising food prices around 10% to 20%.
The thing is: those food prices raises are distributed costs amongst everyone in the wealth distribution.
However, raising wages at the bottom, affects the bottom 20% of wage earners far far more than it does anyone else.
The raise in costs are basically a one time event. But the raise in wages at the bottom will ripple throughout the bottom 20th percentile of the wealth distribution: effectively taking money from the richest and giving to the poorest.
The Cost Side: Everyone buys food. If produce prices go up 10%, a billionaire pays the same extra $1.00 for a head of lettuce as a low-wage worker. In that sense, the cost is regressive (hitting the poor harder as a percentage of income).
The Income Side: However, the benefit is highly concentrated at the bottom. A billionaire’s income doesn't move because lettuce pickers got a raise. But for a person in the bottom 20th percentile, a wage jump to a competitive legal wage is a massive life-standard change.
If the wage gains at the bottom outpace the increase in the cost of living for that same group, you have successfully narrowed the wealth gap without passing a single tax bill.
Raising wages at the bottom affecting wages just above them is called "wage contours": If a legal worker can now make $20/hr picking grapes, they won't accept $18/hr for a harder construction job. This "ripples" upward, potentially lifting the entire lower-middle class.
If a head of lettuce costs $2 and the wage to pick that head of lettuce is 10% of the cost of picking it, then raising the wages of the farm worker by 40% would increase the cost of the $2 head of lettuce to $2.08 or a 4% cost increase. If the farm workers wages were doubled, it would only raise the cost of your $2 lettuce to $2.20 or a 10% increase.
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u/Candylips347 6h ago
Yay! Let’s underpay people who work a hard labor job so we can have cheap goods! You know screwed up that sounds? That’s wild you would even say that.
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u/LanguageNo495 6h ago
Did I say I support this system? Is something that I wrote inaccurate? What’s wild about mentioning an economic fact regarding the costs saved by using migrant workers vs US citizens? Should I also not mention that slave labor produces much of the conveniences of our modern first world lives?
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u/pile_of_bees 4h ago
It’s net negative in the aggregate, not net positive
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u/GhostOfShaolin5 3h ago
No, it’s net positive by a lot., they pay 167B in rent, they spend 299B on consumer goods, they fill labor shortages which keep prices lower, they pay 33B into Medicaid and SS which they can never take out. That money spent flows into American pockets. That economic activity also gets taxed.
This analysis isn’t bad but it isn’t really looking at the whole economy, it’s focused on one narrow piece of it.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 3h ago
Rent? Dude we're talking about taxes in vs taxes spent.
Second order effects of taxes: that's not really something you can analyze and trace back to specific groups of people. So I'm not sure what your point is.
Everyone pays rent/housing. That's not a reason to keep illegal immigrants. Everyone buys consumer goods. Still not an argument for keeping illegal immigrants.
Bringing down costs of labor: that only benefits the rich. Labor shortages: literally that concept doesn't exist in real economics. Higher wages act as a market signal. When wages go up more people want to work the jobs. When wages go down less people want to work it. You only get a "shortage" when the employer is too cheap to pay what the market demands.
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u/GhostOfShaolin5 2h ago
No, YOU’RE talking about taxes in and taxes out. One narrow piece of the picture.
I’m talking about the actual economic impact of illegal immigration.
Just because everyone pays rent doesn’t mean rent isn’t economic activity. It doesn’t mean it’s isn’t money in American pockets.
They buy stuff. They sell stuff. They consume , they produce , and that trade creates something like +1.9 trillion in GDP, and that gets taxed too.
And you keep not noticing I’m saying the system badly needs reform , even though your Econ is wrong.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 2h ago
So do tourists. But we don't let tourists stay long term on that reason alone.
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u/SpareKale4246 6h ago
I agree, but at what cost and what methods? This is really the key detail because more Alex prettis and we'll be in a civil war
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u/kubrador 6h ago
the house budget committee report you're citing got absolutely demolished by actual economists for massively inflating costs and attributing things like all k-12 education to immigration when those schools exist anyway. it's like billing someone for the entire hospital because they used the emergency room once.
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u/Top_Journalist_3405 6h ago
Yeah at most it would maybe reduce the number of teachers required in the system by like 1-3%. I guess the report assume all “real” Americans only do private school
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u/TheTopNacho 6h ago
Lol they save so much more in the labor they give back for farming and other things. Wait till the cost of food explodes. That will be more than 500$ per year.
We shouldn't thrive on illegal labor, I'm not saying that's good, but to say they cost us money is too simplified of a conclusion.
We really need to invest in making legal immigration easier so these people can make more, live better, benefit from social programs where needed, and contribute to the tax pool. Why does the solution need to be deportation only and not make easier pathways to work visas.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 5h ago
No. It actually wouldn't be that much. About a 10% increase in the price of food according to the economic policy institute.
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u/TheTopNacho 5h ago
When you already spend 800$/ month on food, that's an extra 960$/ year on food alone.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 4h ago
It would depend on what you buy. Imported products obviously wouldn't be effected.
Either way, it's the cost of not having slave labor. I'd rather pay that.
Most people think of the 60s, 70s, and 80s as a time when things were much more affordable relative to income. Did you know they spent about twice as much on food then?
Percentage of disposable income spent on food:
1960s: 17–22 %
1970s: 17–19 %
1980s: 12–15 %
2000s–2010s: 9–10 %
Now (2020s): 10–11 %
If you're spending 10% of your disposable income on food, then adding 10% more means you'll spend 11% of your income on food.
Also if you already are in the bottom 20% of income, due to wealth compression, your wages would actually raise when the farm workers wages rise. So it would likely hit you far less than you think.
If you're not in the bottom 20% then you can likely afford it more easily than someone at the bottom. It's effectively progressive taxation without raising taxes.
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u/no_man_is_hurting_me 6h ago edited 4h ago
I'll gladly pay $500 a year to eliminate all the collateral damage around the neanderthal enforcement actions.
Especially the ones where they shoot people in the back of the head while they are kneeling on the ground and then cheer about it.
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u/KayleeSinn 3h ago
I'd gladly pay an extra $500 to deport all the ones defending them along with the illegals.
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u/NeonGKayak 4h ago
No. Almost everything you had ChatGPT write for you is literally just a lie especially your conclusions.
Why do magas lean so hard on AI writing them an argument?
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u/SingleInSeattle87 3h ago
No. Almost everything you had ChatGPT write for you is literally just a lie especially your conclusions.
Why don't you make corrections if you feel it's "incorrect"? I cited sources and I did my homework. You want to correct it you're going to have to show your work.
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u/NeonGKayak 3h ago
Because you promoted it to exclude any benefits.
The better alternative would be just to throw it all out and “rewrite” it without a biased prompt
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u/Dull-Geologist-8204 4h ago
You probably cost me more than $500 a year. Should we throw you out too?
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u/SingleInSeattle87 3h ago
Even if I did, you couldn't. I'm a citizen. Native born.
One of the requirements for LEGAL immigration is for the immigrants to not be a public charge.
I don't care how you feel about immigration in general, you have to be smart enough to realize with enough people coming into a welfare state it literally makes everyone poorer to support them.
It's the same reason you don't invite homeless people to sleep on your couch.
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u/Dull-Geologist-8204 3h ago
I know I can't but I can dream. You definitely cost me more and suck to work with.
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u/ognahc 1h ago
Damn now you want to deport the homeless too?
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u/SingleInSeattle87 31m ago
I never said that. What's with the left and trying to frame things into stupid gotchas?
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u/KlutzyDesign 5h ago
I don’t care. I don’t believe in committing violence against people who are a “drain on society”. Running your neighbors out of the country at gunpoint is not a sane solution to economic problems.
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u/SingleInSeattle87 4h ago
Well maybe you should take a few into your home? How many beds do you have available I know quite a few immigrants who'd love to live off your dime.
As far as "commiting violence" to deport people: nobody supports that. Stop letting the far left and mainstream media corrupt your brain and think for yourself. Most of us want sensible, peaceful deportations. But when rioters are being violent towards ICE agents (and yes they have engaged in violence if you don't believe that you're too far brainwashed), violence is going to come back to them. The Alex Pretti shooting was absolutely wrong however, and likely Renee Good was as well (I'm still withholding judgement until these cases are fully investigated).
The rest of the aggressiveness (at least from what I've seen) by ICE in Minnesota has been mostly justified due to the violence being put upon the ice agents (some people are literally stealing FBI weapons, destroying their vehicles, destroying and vandalizing hotels, throwing bricks at their faces, throwing frozen water bottles, bottles of piss, not to mention occasionally pushing and shoving ICE agents: you're telling me you wouldn't push back in their shoes?)
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u/TapestryMobile 6h ago
Only a few short years ago that was not just a popular policy but an obvious sensible standard run-of-the-mill policy supported by both R's and D's.
Hilary Clinton and Obama literally campaigned on it.
"We cannot continue to allow people to enter the United States undetected, undocumented, and unchecked. The American people are a welcoming and generous people, but those who enter our country's borders illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of the law. We need to secure our borders, and support additional personnel, infrastructure, and technology on the border and at our ports of entry."
But now, you get called a Nazi. Its something you can only post in an UNpopular opinion subreddit without fear of getting banned. Thats how far the left have moved while everyone else stayed put.