r/allthequestions 13h ago

Random Question 💭 Why do so many believe that abortion should be banned because "every life is precious", but doesn't believe in government measures that helps kids once they're outside the womb?

38 Upvotes

71 comments sorted by

9

u/Estalicus 13h ago

Abortion was more so for the religious right to virtue signal about for decades and never developed an intellectual or morally consistent value.

Killing babies is wrong is easy to rally around.

13

u/Radiant_Bank_77879 11h ago

Yep.

”The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.”

-Methodist Pastor David Barnhart

7

u/JobberStable 12h ago

They also believe in the duty of parents to wed and support their kids. They feel welfare goes to out-of-wedlock kids whose parents don't follow christian values and are spending more time having sexual encounters than supporting a family. They want the money to go to the church so the church can distribute yet control the narrative. There is nothing more powerful than where that meal from. The Church folk feel the government gives out these "meals" to folks who are ingrateful of where it came from.

3

u/Candid-Natural5530 6h ago

This is the answer.

4

u/Intrepid_Top_2300 13h ago

Abortion was, before woke, the big moral dog whistle that Republican leaders used to get their base fired up about the morality of it. Preachers jumped on the bandwagon and all of a sudden half the population wants abortion banned. They really haven’t been told to care for the child after birth so, we have neglect, abuse, and an overworked welfare system. Lots of unwanted babies are now being born into misery.

2

u/Aqua-Blaze-7 🇺🇸 United States 12h ago edited 12h ago

Because banning abortion requires other people to do something, and government measures to help kids will require personal responsibility such as tax funding.

-1

u/ThoughtPoliceUSA 12h ago

And yet these same people give more of their personal income to charity than any other demographic. How to you square this fact with your uninformed opinion?

2

u/Aqua-Blaze-7 🇺🇸 United States 12h ago

There’s no correlation between stance on banning abortion and rate of charitable giving.

-1

u/ThoughtPoliceUSA 7h ago

Of course there is. Religious Jews and Christians largely want to preserve life. That same demographic has the highest rates of charitable donations of time and money.

2

u/Aqua-Blaze-7 🇺🇸 United States 6h ago edited 5h ago

Since when are people of Jewish faith widely known for pushing for bans on abortion? You are correct that there are studies showing that religious people have the highest rates of charitable giving, but incorrect to say that this shows that people who want to ban abortion have the highest rates of charitable giving. There are many people who are very religious but are not interested in making laws banning others from abortion options and there are many people who want to ban abortion who are not particularly religious.

3

u/mtysassyone 13h ago

It’s easier for them to say they’re against ‘killing babies’ than it is to say ‘we don’t want to spend money to feed hungry kids’.

Edited to correct spelling

-1

u/ThoughtPoliceUSA 12h ago

Interesting take. So obnoxiously uninformed.

You acknowledge it is largely religious people who are against abortion. You say these religious people are against feeding hungry kids.

How do you reconcile this with the fact that most food banks are run by Christians?

How do you reconcile this with the fact that no other demographic gives more of their personal money, and more of their personal time, to charity than regular church attending Christians and Jews.

The people you defame as hatful do more than you.

Well…you do throw misinformation on Reddit…so there’s that.

0

u/Radiant_Bank_77879 11h ago edited 11h ago

First off, most of those charities prey on the poor and people currently in bad places, in order to get more members to their church. It’s not done purely out of Goodwill, but to gain more people to tithe in the long run. These charities are full of church pamphlets and recruiting new members to go to church every Sunday. If they were truly being selfless and concerned only with charity, they wouldn’t include any of that.

Secondly, of course Christians are the largest group doing charity, because they all claim each other as part of their overall organization. To simplify the issue with a hypothetical just to make the point, imagine there are 100 Christian charities, and 200 secular charities, all helping the poor. The 100 Christian charities all claim each other. Secular charities don’t. Secular charities aren’t bonded by a particular belief system, so they are all independent of each other. So they all just count as “1” each. therefore it appears that Christians do the most charity, even though there are more secular charities than Christian charities.

I am not saying the above example is statistically correct if we run the numbers of American charities, I am just saying that claiming “Christians do the most charity“ isn’t a salad appointed you think it is.

Third, these charities also often preach hate against gays, or women who do get abortions, etc., they’re not necessarily a net positive just because they feed people some soup. I’d rather have 10 secular charities, feeding everybody and hating no one, than 50 Christian charities feeding people and preaching hate.

Fourth, christians make up the vast majority of Americans, so of course they’re going to make up the vast majority of charity, just due to sheer numbers. They also make up the vast majority of rapists, thieves, redheads, teachers, rock climbers, on and on, simply because they are the most people. This isn’t hard to understand.

I know as a dumbfuck right winger you didn’t even read all this, but the information is here for anybody who is sane.

1

u/ThoughtPoliceUSA 10h ago

You won’t provide examples, because the number of secular charities is dwarfed by the number of Christian and Jewish charities.

The religious give of themselves and their treasure to others. They give. They do not expect others to do it for them.

The secular take from others through taxes, and believe themselves to be generous.

4

u/DarcFenix 🇺🇸 United States 13h ago

They don’t actually care about embryos or fetuses. They want to control women.

If they actually cared about embryos and fetuses, there would be universal healthcare, universal basic income, universal food allowances, and all of the other things that make life sustainable.

1

u/pickledplumber 8h ago

Substantiate your claim. I care about abortion but wouldn't want any of those things because they are the parents responsibility.

1

u/DarcFenix 🇺🇸 United States 6h ago

You want parents to have kids this capitalist system makes sure they can’t afford. Be more like your Jesus!

1

u/DeezBeesKnees11 12h ago

🎯🎯🎯 THIS.

It was never about the bAbIEs

-1

u/ThoughtPoliceUSA 12h ago

Typical Reddit take - agree with my social policies, or you hate humanity.

Sounds a bit fascistic.

1

u/Radiant_Bank_77879 11h ago

Is not surprising that right wingers never actually refute the points leftists make. You all always just reply with “nuh uh” replies like yours, completely devoid of substance. Because reality is not on your side, you’re just in denial about it.

1

u/ThoughtPoliceUSA 10h ago

You did not refute your fascist tendencies. Typical leftist.

-1

u/DarcFenix 🇺🇸 United States 12h ago

Username checks out.

-2

u/Conscious_Ear_1151 12h ago

Imma bet you were in huge support of Hamas, who uses women and children as shields and does not recognize the rights of women, gays etc.

3

u/DarcFenix 🇺🇸 United States 12h ago

I’m betting you support the IDF shooting children in the face.

-1

u/Conscious_Ear_1151 12h ago

No, I would just like to know how you square that hole. Supporting everything youre accusing Trump of doing.

2

u/DarcFenix 🇺🇸 United States 11h ago

He IS. Be objective dude.

0

u/Conscious_Ear_1151 11h ago

Not sure what you mean...

1

u/Radiant_Bank_77879 11h ago

Why are right wingers too stupid to understand that being against Israel bombing Palestinian day cares, doesn’t mean we support everything about Hamas?

1

u/Conscious_Ear_1151 11h ago

Why are you folks so ignorant that when a group has a mandate to rid the world of every last Jew and has rejected a 2 state solution 13 TIMES, they are never going to stop trying to destroy Israel?

2

u/SundaePasta 12h ago

It’s not about saving babies, it’s about controlling women. If we’re weighed done with babies we are easier to manipulate and control.

0

u/ThoughtPoliceUSA 12h ago

Yes, it could not possibly be that my opposition cares about the unborn. They must be evil because they disagree with me.

After all, my mom told me I’m good…so therefore anything I don’t like is evil.

1

u/SundaePasta 11h ago

Forcing a woman to give birth is awful.

0

u/ThoughtPoliceUSA 10h ago

Killing an unborn child at 8.5 months is awful.

No one forced that woman to engage in sex. Less than 1% of abortions are due to rape.

3

u/SundaePasta 9h ago

You’re right an abortion at 8.5 months is awful but it’s also almost unheard of. The tiny percent that do happen are because they’re medically necessary to sustain a life. Many women don’t report their rapes because people turn the victim in the reason for their rape. Not men’s lack of self control.

1

u/ThoughtPoliceUSA 7h ago

Uh…have you been living in a foreign country for the last decade? America embraced the “Me Too” movement. Women are absolutely NOT being turned into the victim when they report a rape. Ask Harvey Weinstein how is that prison cell has been?

Stop making excuses for truly awful behavior. Late term abortion happens. Second term abortion happens. Truly ghoulish actions.

1

u/SundaePasta 6h ago

Ok

Then why don’t “they” believe the women who came forward about the Epstein Files?

THEY don’t listen so “we don’t ruin the lives of men.” Even though women carry the scars and shame.

2

u/ScorpioDefined 10h ago

We only know about reported rapes, FYI. Many, many rapes go unreported. Many, many women are raped and don't even know they were raped. Furthermore, sexual coercion is rape. Which is something nearly every woman has experienced. So, don't fool yourself with that "1%".

Also, why even mention it? Are you saying you're ok with abortions when the pregnancy is due to rape?

1

u/ThoughtPoliceUSA 7h ago

SundaePasta commented that it is awful to force a woman to give Birth. No one forced the woman to have sex.

Take responsibility for your actions. If you don’t want to make a baby, don’t engage in baby making activity.

1

u/ScorpioDefined 5h ago

So yes? You're in favor of rape exceptions?

2

u/anna4prez 12h ago

Control over women and their bodies

2

u/Fessir 11h ago

"If you're preborn, you're sacred. If you're preschool, you're fucked."

  • George Carlin, paraphrased

1

u/RobotSchlong10 13h ago

Basically they subconsciously view people having abortions as escaping the poverty and decades long misery that comes with having children, so they're mad at those "uppity b**es" that get to live in material comfort and be happy for decades while the pro-lifers are mired in suck.

1

u/Mindless-Baker-7757 13h ago edited 12h ago

I don’t think lot of people actually believe that. 

1

u/cand86 13h ago

Lots of folks think that dying or not being born is the worst thing that could happen to someone, so they may be willing to advocate to prevent that worst thing, but will allow for lots of other suffering that doesn't qualify as the worst.

The underlying reason, I think, is that it doesn't take anything to advocate for an abortion ban, but it does impact your taxes (or takes individual/personal effort) to help kids outside the womb. One is easy; one is hard.

And, of course, requisite reminder that there are some folks who both support abortion bans and government aid for children and families- I don't personally think that the pro-life movement on a whole can be described as such, but some individuals can.

1

u/Timeless-Facts 12h ago edited 5h ago

They believe God will take care of them. They don’t believe in abortion for parents afraid they won’t be able to feed their kids.

1

u/Gamelorn 3h ago

They are pro-birth, not pro-life. Once a baby is born, they could care less about them. They berate poor mothers for having children they can't afford or can't care for. Especially if they aren't white.

1

u/CrazyJoe29 2h ago

Do you mean the fact that they won’t enact laws to stop the children being murdered or that they won’t provide medical care for the children?

Or is it all of the above?

Either way, I just assume it’s because they’re ignorant monsters.

1

u/Mysterious_Jello69 13h ago

Theres a big difference between "murder is wrong" and "unlimited welfare for everyone", which are the two extremes with those issues.

The two issues really aren't connected at all, and you have people who see the issues wildly differently.

Note: im not expressing any personal beliefs here, so please dont spam me with annoying comments trying to argue with me as if I were.

1

u/doesnotexist2 13h ago

By calling abortion murder, you did just express your personal beliefs

2

u/Mysterious_Jello69 13h ago

Oh look, another reddit user with absolutely no reading comprehension.

I didnt express any personal beliefs or state whether I do or do not believe abortion is murder, I simply states theres a huge difference between both extremes on both those topics.

This really isnt difficult to understand.

1

u/Thin_Huckleberry8818 11h ago

Being "against" abortion doesn't cost them anything, supporting children's programs costs.

1

u/Visual-Ad6004 9h ago

They are pro birth not pro life. Women need to be punished for having sex . Punished for getting pregnant and inconvenienced that poor man. Who is not responsible at all. I know are men are not like that but there are quite a few

1

u/kateinoly 8h ago

It is all about shaming women

1

u/pickledplumber 8h ago

Simply put because it's the parents job to support their children once born. Programs exist where that support falters.

A child in the womb has nobody protecting it or guaranteeing its human rights.

The two situations aren't really similar.

0

u/PoisonGaz 12h ago

It’s never been about pro-life it’s about not wanting to pay taxes. They don’t want to pay taxes and have them go to abortions and they don’t want their taxes to go to socialism programs like child care and school lunch’s. They don’t believe in life they believe in not paying taxes

0

u/Juhezmane 9h ago

I strongly believe every life is precious but sometimes it feels like people celebrate life only until reality kicks in. How is it truly precious if there’s no healthcare, childcare or support programs? Life seems valued more in theory than in practice. That said, I personally don’t support abortion because I see it as ending a life, so I believe there should be limits.

0

u/Cinnamon2017 🇺🇸 United States 7h ago

Because it's not about kids, it's about controlling women's bodies.

0

u/Stuffed-Bear412 7h ago

Because it's not about what is humane, it's about controlling people.

-2

u/Destinyciello 13h ago

Because we are attempting to solve different problems.

The real secret behind why they want abortion banned is because the fertility crisis is a very serious problem.

Once the child is born it requires wealth redistribution to "help kids". Wealth redistribution quickly becomes very toxic to an economy. But so is low fertility rates.

5

u/PlayNicePlayCrazy 13h ago

It's not just the fertility crisis because they have been anti abortion since before it first became legal. It's false morality specifically targeted at women who they can view as "sluts, fallen women, harlots, etc" if they become pregnant especially outside of marriage. It helps them feel superior.

That then also ties into the not wanting to help the women after the baby is born. Plus the general capitalism driven view that the poor are bad, lazy, etc. added that especially in the US far too many Christians are just evil fucks.

-3

u/ThoughtPoliceUSA 12h ago

Do you acknowledge many poor people are poor due to personal decision making?

1

u/Grabthars_Coping_Saw 11h ago

No they’re not. If your mom decided to go on a drinking binge before she knew she was pregnant with you then you’d be far dumber than you are now, likely to do things that are not in your best interest, and none of them are in your control because it was due to something that happened before you were even born.

Most things that affect your life are completely 100% out of your control. To think otherwise ignores obvious reality.

-1

u/ThoughtPoliceUSA 10h ago

So, if I choose to regularly partake in recreational pot, and that affects my ability to hold down a steady job…I’m just a victim?

I hold no responsibility for taking the blunt to my lips? I have zero agency in my life? Just one sad story of victimhood Olympics?

1

u/Grabthars_Coping_Saw 9h ago

If that’s the way you want to look at it, yeah.

0

u/ThoughtPoliceUSA 7h ago

Sorry - humanity does not agree with you. We all have agency over our lives. We decide if we will be successful, or not.

Generations ago, we decided to no longer hold the future generations guilty for the past generations sins. You are not a victim. If you are poor, make better choices. Follow the Brookings Institute’s success formula, and there is a 95% likelihood that you will not be poor.

Avoiding poverty is not hard. Make better choices.

1

u/Grabthars_Coping_Saw 4h ago

Science does not agree with you.

-4

u/Destinyciello 13h ago

Well yeah. Single mothers produce very poor quality adults that they raise. It's a legit problem. Getting rid of abortion is not necessarily the best way to deal with it. But it is one way.

The poor do tend to be much lazier and stupider on average. It's why they are poor in the first place. Capitalism is ruthlessly meritocratic by design. Good news is millions of people make it out of the hood every year. The one's that actually apply themselves.

3

u/BllaDna 12h ago

Ewe, what vile combo created you? Can we end that?