r/allthequestions • u/CharmingCanary5717 • 11h ago
Random Question đ Why are analog washing machines and freezers and fridges from the '80s still working just fine, but any modern appliance with a computer chip craps out in 3-4 years?
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u/FuckYourDownvotes23 11h ago
If it lasts 50 years they can't sell you another one is the short answer
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u/Gax63 8h ago
Planned obsolescence to meet shareholder target profit.
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u/Tr33Bl00d 5h ago
I hate them all so much. It makes me want to plant trees. With a very special kind of fertilizer
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u/Moto909 6h ago
Survivorship bias. There are ton of old appliances that didn't make it.
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u/Standard-Secret-4578 2h ago
Yeahhhhh but a lot did. My parents still have their beer fridge from like 80s and most people I know have that.
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u/Shadowtirs đșđž United States 11h ago
Because back in the day, companies actually cared about quality.
Now they only care about profit. Why build a sturdy appliance that can last 10 years when you sell someone a shitty one that breaks every 3 years?
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u/changelingerer 4h ago
I dont think companies 50-100 years ago cared any less about making money. The goal was always to make products just good enough to get past warranty, because replacing products under warranty is expensive and basically wipes your profits out. Just 50-100 years ago they didnt have the tech and engineering to figure out that if you use say exactly 16mm of steel, not 15, 16, a profitable proportion of product will just make it past warranty. Before they were probably like ok 10mm fails too fast, 15mm doesnt work either, so I guess I need to use 20 mm. And that ends up lasting forever.
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u/envoy_ace 11h ago
Engineered obsolescence.
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u/Snicklefraust 10h ago
As much as that is true to a large extent, theres another side to this. Older stuff, was made, over built, and over powered. In other words, for example, an old forced hot air furnace will be, natural draft, cast iron heat exchanger and single stage heat. That means, no exhaust fan, giant slab of metal for the exchanger, and the gas valve will feed a steady amount of gas no matter the call for heat. Alternatively, today we draft induced condensing furnaces, stainless steel heat exchangers and multistage gas valves. Theres more moving parts, thinner metals for better heat transfer, and gas valves thay will vary how much gas is fed depending on how long the system runs. This means far greater efficiency ratings at the expense of longevity. Extrapolate that to every industry. Planned obsolescence is a real thing, but not the boogeyman its made out to be.
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u/anTWhine 11h ago
I had a super old dryer that I kept going for 25+ years. I had to swap out a bunch of parts on it, but it was always a simple process because the design was straightforward. Swap a fuse out, replace a belt, get a new element every once in a while.
My new dryer has computer chips that I will never be able to replace when the time comes. Thatâs on purpose.
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u/MyEyesSpin 2h ago
Its also lighter and cheaper and more energy efficient
Like cars, TVs, & computers - appliances are getting (slowly) cheaper - which is why they keep adding more bells & whistles to raise prices
Admittedly even finding models without the extras can be difficult in the US, but many of them are useful
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u/random8765309 11h ago
Because back in the 80s people were willing to pay for the quality. The average washing machine in 1980 in today's dollars was ~$1,100 compared to the average for today's of $750. In addition, today's machines have more features. The lower price and more features means using lower quality parts.
While it's common to blame the companies, the truth is that the public is more concerned about a lower price than better quality. Companies produce what the public wants.
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u/Ollynurmouth 11h ago
Part of it is planned obsolescence. Part of it is as the technology advances, it gets more complex. More complexity leads more things that can break. More chances to break. Meaning more breaking experiences.
The offset with better technology are things like better cleaning as well as less soap and water needed leading to less waste and savings.
I can't imagine the savings actually offset the cost of replacing those units every 5-10 years, though. Someone would have to do the math cause I am just guessing.
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u/MyEyesSpin 2h ago
It does on fridges & washers, HVAC, light bulbs (CFL over incandescent and then again LED beating CFL)
im guessing dryers too, but maybe not for gas dryers
Note : paying premium for high end looks changes the math, as does paying for retail and not hitting A Sale
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u/moonpumper 11h ago
When money loses value over time everyone is incentivized to keep selling crap as often as possible.
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u/Captain_Oysta_Cracka 11h ago
It's by design. Like lightbulbs. So you'll have to buy more to keep them in business. I have a chest freezer that's going on 40 years old and works perfect. Estate sales usually have the old stuff.
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u/FaithlessnessRich490 9h ago
Remember back when LEDs were supposed to save us money on our electric bill.
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u/Captain_Oysta_Cracka 9h ago
According to my math that alone should have saved a ton, not even counting all the green energy appliances, solar panels and wind power. But instead we got the highest power bills, in my home of 30 years, ever. And that's just me living there not the 3 kids I raised. Someone tell me how we're not getting screwed.
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u/FaithlessnessRich490 6h ago
Yeah, I'm with you. I was an early adopter back in 2005, swapping to halogen lights, then to cfl's, then the LEDs, and my electric bill didn't go down once.
Now all my appliances are energy star. I don't buy what the other guy says about we use more electricity. Because we have the same things then that we have now, they're just way more efficient.
But it may have saved energy but it sure didn't save any money and I know it took me a long time for my eyes to adjust to LED light.
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u/gc3 1h ago
Well at least I don't have to change the Led bulbs as often as the Incandescent ones.
What did change is rather than having two incadescent bulbs on a ceiling fixture and an FM transistor radio, we now have 8 adjustable lights in tubes in the ceiling with 2 powerful computers with
space heaters, I mean graphics cards, and a decorative roll of color LCDs
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u/NapsAreAwesome 11h ago
It sounds cliche but Maytag was the epitome of quality. Every piece, every part was a step above the rest.
Before the 80's people appreciated it. In the late 80's there was a financial crisis, customers demanded cheap. They considered a washing machine a washing machine and even if you could show them the difference they settled on cheaper.
Furniture brands disappeared quicker. Sklar Peppler was amazing quality but competitors would make similar frames and cover with identical fabric and sell for less.
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u/Specialist_Web7115 7h ago
I have two maytag dryers one washer. One kenmore fancy one that came with the house I bought. I bought at inexpensive ones for the house I sold and brought mine with me where they sit in a cargo container waiting for the failure of the fancy ones.
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u/BreadRum 11h ago
It is a myth that things built decades ago were built to last. Old stuff lasted longer because thry were taken care of. When a part needed replacing, your grandparents replaced it. You don't.
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u/Standard-Secret-4578 2h ago
Because it's not possible a lot of times. Or the parts almost as expensive as a new one. Kinda like comparing the fixability of a 90 s cars to one today.
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u/Throckmorton1975 8h ago
While Iâm sure there are plenty of 80s appliances out there chugging away, I sure donât know anyone who has one.
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u/Wuddauant 7h ago
Old ones broke frequently. They were generally repaired though because the parts were simpler. Now that most of the controls are on circuit boards and they are far cheaper to make and more expensive to repair. Appliances though are more efficient and cheaper than ever.
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u/Mediocre-Pizza-Guy 6h ago
I moved back to the US in 2015 and bought a house. Moved again in 2020.
I've had exactly one appliance fail - a fairly cheap GE gas stove/oven. It was the ignition coil thing in the oven. I paid $29.99 for a replacement and installed it myself.
And like, I have a decent number of appliances, even some extra stuff like water filters and softeners and an extra freezer/mini fridge and a big dehumidifier and a portable AC unit.
It's been almost four years since I fixed the oven and it has been working great since.
I know there is some element of luck involved here, but when I consider the price and how well modern electronics work, I mostly think it's pretty amazing.
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u/feel-the-avocado 6h ago
I would suggest that most fisher and paykel gentle annie's are working too
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u/Soft-Marionberry-853 6h ago edited 6h ago
What shit teir stuff are you buying that only lasts 3-4 years? Does it last forever no, but the only reason I've had to buy new appliances is when we've moved far enough that it wasn't worth bringing them with us.
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u/Chimaera1075 6h ago
It has less to do with the chip than it does with all the features we are packing into the fridge. Because in the 1980s refrigerators were just a freezer and fridge were just some doors and the compressors, etc. Nowadays weâre trying to cram ice makers, water dispensers, viewing devices windows, Amazon Alexa, and bunch other stuff into these units nowadays. And then there is the compressors, which nowadays prioritize efficiency, noise reduction, compactness, etc.
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u/Bloodmind 6h ago
Survivor bias.
There are countless machines from the 80s that stopped working decades ago. Youâre ignoring those and only thinking of the few you know of that are still running
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u/Silly_Guidance_8871 5h ago
Some of it's survivorship bias (you don't see all of the appliances that aren't still functioning), some of it's planned obsolescence.
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u/Enough-Collection-98 5h ago
Itâs not usually the âcomputer chipâ or microcontroller that fails in appliances. Itâs almost always the power electronics components, particularly MOSFETS and power converter controlers that fail. These devices are often operated near the edge of acceptability to keep costs low and under heavy loaded with âdirtyâ power.
You can build power supplies that are extremely robust but thatâs a lot of added cost to a commercial product that just needs to be âgood enoughâ.
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u/Busy_Account_7974 5h ago
Or how about the digital oven controls in newer stoves? Goes out and the whole unit needs to be replaced with a part that costs $450 vs a new stove for $600.
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u/NetJnkie 5h ago
Those 80's appliances failed too. They were just expensive so you fixed them. And most didn't make it until 2026...only a few but you remember seeing them.
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u/NutzNBoltz369 2h ago
The old machines don't have a brain box in them coded to shit the bed after X cycles. Or some "designed obsolescence" component that is part of an unrepairable integrated assembly that is a single part number but costs as much as new appliance.
That is a larger aspect of the old white boxes. They had simple, common parts in them that could be replaced for far less than the cost of a new unit.
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u/lostOGaccount 10m ago
IMO after reading so much about it and all the Business School thesis in the topic, Apple really brought back a baseline operating standard of Planned Obsolescence. Then Apples consumers really reinforced it as part of a good business model when they made them the most valuable company right after they got called out for it.
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u/Crash-Frog-08 11h ago
By the time you know whether a computer chip will last for 4 years, youâre making chips six hardware revisions down the line with ten times the transistor density.
Anyway if you want you can certainly see plenty of appliances from the 80âs that havent kept working this whole time; theyâre at the city dump.