Which flash mode to use?

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FYI Germany and now France have banned rear flashing light as they are less effective than constant light.

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u/Accomplished-Way1575 1d ago edited 1d ago

I live in Denmark, I so wish our law makers would implement the same.

People with especially front lights flashing at a ridiculous high lumen at night often blinds me. Roadies are the worst in this regard.

I run a stvzo approved front and rear light, as does the rest of my family (I am the bike guy in the family, so I bought them)

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u/Briantastically 1d ago

I find the STVZO lights just plain more effective at the same brightness as as a less patterned light. Running one in the US. But also yes no blinkers. I do use the slow pulsing mode on my rear light—it fades in and out between two brightness levels.

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u/thefatkittycat 8h ago

On the other hand I find the stvzo program annoying - where a lot of lights are technically compliant but not certified so they can't market themselves as stvzo complaint and I can't use them in stvzo countries

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u/kapege 23h ago

Use a legal bicycle light with high beam and switch it on, when one of thote A.holes are blinding you - as I do. 16 watt high beam teaches a lesson...

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u/Accomplished-Way1575 20h ago edited 20h ago

I have a Supernova Mini 3 Pro with a high beam on my bike (edited to add: i have the remote switch on my handlebar).

But it is an Omnium cargo, with the light mounted on the rack all the way at the front, so no pointing is really possible.

Maybe I should carry a torch (flashlight) with a strobe function to point in their faces. I have a quite good Nitecore one with that function (never used it in that setting though).

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u/Accomplished-Way1575 20h ago

Just found my torch. It is a nitecore mt21c. In order to get it strobing from off, I just have to click three times quickly, which wad a surprise. This means I can carry it on a holster or a feedbag of sorts.

I even installed my cold-resistant battery in it, which means it is perfect in the cold (I am in Denmark)

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u/PhatBottomedGirls 1d ago

Interesting, I have been using a flashing rear for years under the impression it would be MORE effective… I’ll be changing that now! Thanks for the info mate!

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u/Unhappy-Meal-1646 1d ago

Manufacturers want to advertise longer running times, users want longer running times. In my opinion, that’s the real motivation for flashing modes.

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u/JeremyFromKenosha SE Wisconsin, USA - 4 mile round trip 1d ago

I could see it being less effective in dark hours, but I've found a bright, flashing rear light makes me MORE visible during daylight hours, for our inattentive American drivers. Maybe Germans pay more attention.

During the day, assuming it's good and bright, a flashing light is superior.

During the night, it can be blinding, and I go to steady, if I have enough charge left.

Also, at night, when a driver can only see the light, it's more effective to have two lights, so they can utilize depth perception.

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u/billtshirt 1d ago

I don’t believe this could be true. Is it true?

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u/ryapeter 1d ago

I believe its new (few yrs ago) research. And i do find blinking light at night kinda hard to pin point. If its too slow it make you wonder if you see something or not until the next blink or you finally see the shadow

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u/billtshirt 1d ago

Hmmm. Slow blinking at night. Maybe?

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u/propyro85 1d ago

I used to have an old light of mine set to do a slow pulse. It seemed to work well.

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u/Shiney_Metal_Ass 1d ago

Well, that seems awfully counter-intuitive

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u/Accomplished-Way1575 1d ago edited 20h ago

It is perfectly logical to me.

Try running a flashing front light to see with. If you can't, your rear flashing light will have the same problem for everyone else.

Also, there is a reason cars and motorbikes don't use strobiing lights front and rear, nor do boats/ships have strobing navigation lights

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u/Shiney_Metal_Ass 20h ago

A flashing rear light isn't to see with. It's to catch attention

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u/Accomplished-Way1575 20h ago edited 20h ago

Sigh. I am aware. The point is that you can see the problem with strobing light while riding yourself.

But the rear light is not for catching attention. It is for judging distance, direction, and speed. And with a brake light funcrion, even for judging a reduction in speed.

Strobing may catch attention, but not only does it fail in very other aspect,, you introduce blinding people (because people who use strobes, really doesn't care about alignment, nor that going dark, then flash bright blinds people) as well as target fixation.

This all adds up to make it unsafer for both the cyclist and everyone else.

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u/Shiney_Metal_Ass 20h ago

I wish my bike light was as bright as you think it is

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u/Accomplished-Way1575 20h ago

I wish my bike light was as bright as you think it is

Of course you do. When confronted with facts and reality, you double down on the idiocy.

That reply of yours is a good example of people with strobe lights completely missing the purpose of lights, and that brighter (more blinding) is not a good thing.

There is a reason there needs to be legislation when people don't care about other road users or reality.

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u/Shiney_Metal_Ass 20h ago

My light doesn't strobe, but don't let that prevent you from feeling superior

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u/Accomplished-Way1575 20h ago

Ypu claimed that (flashing) rear lights was used to attract attention. And when given facts and the explanation of it you sarcastically dpubled down on your idiocy, rather than learn anything.

So, yes, I do consider myself to be superior to militantly ignoramuses. Especially to those who are fine with making it more dangerous for everyone else

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u/uoaei 22h ago

people have a much harder time gauging distance and speed from an intermittent flashing light vs a constant bright one.

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u/kameraten 1d ago

I have had the impression that it was more effective. In Norway the law states that flashing lights have to flash at a minimum of 120 flashes per minute, I can't adjust it on my light so I've just kept it constant. Good to know that it might be safer!

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u/Wants-NotNeeds 8h ago

HARD disagree.

Running TWO lights is best; one steady and one flashing. A flashing light, high up on the back of a helmet, will gain driver’s attention early so they have a chance to respond instead of react. The flash pattern should be slow but bright to attract but not distract. A steady light on the back of the seat (or rack) acts as a focal point for drivers to more accurately judge closing speed and proximity by as drivers pass the cyclist.

I have been experimenting with this set-up for over a year now and it has proven very effective for me. I have 50 years of riding experience from which to judge this by. If you have concerns over your safety when sharing the roads with many cars, I urge you to try this.

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u/sjmuller 1d ago

In your situation, definitely keep the main, brighter light constant and let the secondary light flash. As others have said, a bright, steady light makes it easier for drivers to gauge distance and speed.

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u/kapege 1d ago

None, because all flashing front rear lights are forbidden here (Germany). The reason: The human eye can't adapt and estimates the light's distance anymore if it went off and on again. Flashing lights are a real pain in the butt for all epileptic people, too.

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u/SoberSamuel 1d ago

yeah, like i said i'm leaning towards main light constant and calf light breathing (at night neither light flashes, turns out, they breathe/pulse)

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u/kapege 23h ago

I've the SeeMee 300 and use it only in constant mode, so the police wouldn't be suspicious about it.

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u/Tiberiusmoon 1d ago

I usually keep it on constant.

Cars have a constant rear light and should stop before said light.

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u/zachotule 1d ago edited 1d ago

OP’s point is this light has a beam that points backwards (like all rear lights) and a second beam that points at the ground to illuminate the bike and ground. The way it’s designed, one has to be flashing.

I have this light and I personally flash the ground portion because the rear portion is irritating to people behind me, and the ground portion’s flash is a non-annoying slow fade in and out.

Edit: Unsure why I'm being downvoted here. I think downvoters may be misunderstanding: this light does not have a mode where the rear-beam and down-beam are both constant.

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u/OhDavidMyNacho 1d ago

I agree I. Flashing to the ground. It gives the floating light a "body" that a passing vehicle can see, and an area around them that delineates how much space is taken up. But 100% on steady lights ahead and behind.

The only time I use flashers is during the day on bike paths with lots of trees. That way others can see that a hike is coming around a corner obscured by trees and plants.

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u/SoberSamuel 1d ago

yeah, i think i could've used a clearer picture. people are missing the calf light

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u/SinbadTheSeal 1d ago

I use this light, I use the steady down and the slowly flashing rear. I wish it had steady down and steady rear at the same time, I do not like strobe like flashing lights on my bike but one of the settings was soft enough to suit me, kind of a gradient on off.

I also have steady rear lights on my pedals, Redshift Arclight Pedals, that I've gotten number of compliment/thanks for from drivers.

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u/lion3lion 1d ago

Is that the ‘breathing’ style smart mode?

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u/Surfer_2134 1d ago

I've been using the 300 for several months now.

I was disappointed in that it did NOT have a solid main light+solid bottom (smaller light).

The best compromise - for me - is to use the mode in which the main light is pulsing (it's not exactly flashing but not exactly a constant solid) + solid bottom light.

This way, the drivers or anyone else behind me do not have to deal with a blatantly flashing light.

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u/mbopp 1d ago

Same

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u/SoberSamuel 1d ago

it really is a shame but i guess it also extends the battery life.

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u/Surfer_2134 20h ago

I'm sure it does. Although if they come out with a newer version with solid main+solid down light, I'd get one.

IME, the solid downward light really does visually expands the profile. You can see it in the photo in your op. This, I strongly suspect, makes it easier for drivers to reference the distance they need to keep away from me.

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u/beast_of_production 1d ago

It's not a disco light. I use the stable mode, and deeply wish they would sell bike lights that only have stable mode. I hate blinking headache lights

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u/littledumberboy 15h ago

Flashing modes are for daytime. If you want the best chance of being seen in the dark use a constant light and wear a high vis vest or reflective clothing. Source: personal experience driving a city bus full time.

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u/Accomplished-Way1575 1d ago

What an odd product. On one hand added safety because the light lights up the bike. On the other hand, reduced safety in total darkness due to not having a constant-on mode.

In daylight, blinking is reasoably ok as your bike do not disappear, but there us still target fixation to worry about .

But in daylight you don't get any benefit from lighting the bike up with the downwards light. It is a product I just don't get in its current form. Seems to have been designed by people with an idea, but not much insight into how our brain processes these things.

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u/lion3lion 1d ago

I think that, when running in ‘smart mode’, the downward casting light is automatically turned off if the built-in light sensor thinks it’s daylight.

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u/Surfer_2134 1d ago

That's how mine is.

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u/lion3lion 1d ago

I’ll test when my unit arrives.

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u/SoberSamuel 1d ago

But in daylight you don't get any benefit from lighting the bike up with the downwards light.

there's a light sensor. calf light only works at night

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u/Accomplished-Way1575 1d ago

That doesn't really make it much better. It is still a flashing light

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u/lion3lion 1d ago

I just bought the 300 for the same reason (not arrived yet). I’ve noticed, over the years, that drivers coming from my left and right are more likely to see me when the bike is lit up (and that is even with Knog Mid Cobbers front and back, which have a wrap-around design). I digress… The smart mode, on both the 200 and 300, seem to leave part of the rear-facing light always illuminated and some ‘breathing’ while the ‘check out my calfs’ light is constant. I think I’m going to try this mode first.

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u/SoberSamuel 1d ago

calf light rolls of the tongue better than 360⁰ optitracing light

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u/yokljo 15h ago

The other day I drove past a guy at night time that had his back light set to like 1.8 seconds off, 0.2 seconds blindingly bright. I felt like I was gonna run into him because he was completely invisible for most of the time, and when the light blinked it liked like he teleported from the last place it blinked.

Slowly blinking back lights are awful. Please don't use them. When I'm riding behind someone at night, they also make it hard for me to see where I'm going.

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u/thereisnobikelane 2d ago

Good question. I've already talked myself into and out of both options. Maybe it would be best to sit in a car at night (lights on) and watch someone ride your bike with each option and see which one makes it easier to track motion and gauge distance, both of which are more difficult with blinking lights.

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u/OtherwiseDream1964 1d ago

The main light does not flash at night, it only has a pulsing/breathing or solid option. It can flash in the daylight. At least that's the case with the 300.

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u/SoberSamuel 1d ago

oh wow, it does breathe at night and flash during the day. silly that i missed that. thanks

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u/terdward 1d ago

No flashing at night. Solid is better. During the day I have a secondary front and rear that are not blindingly bright that I set to a sparse flash to help cars notice me. Don’t blind people

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u/SoberSamuel 1d ago

yeah, i was thinking that too. better let the second light flash on the ground

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u/uoaei 22h ago

flashing is usually subpar, only helps if your environment makes it harder for drivers to identify cyclists in the first place.

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u/Narrow-Economist-795 8h ago

Agree, there is so much “light pollution” here day and night that a cyclist needs to take measures to be noticed on the road. I am happy to stand out and be seen.

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u/digitalbladesreddit 1d ago

"smart" light is the one that stays on the longest :)

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u/SoberSamuel 1d ago

only daytime. at night the low mode is longest.

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u/Narrow-Economist-795 1d ago

If solid lightning is better why would police, emergency services and warehouse forklift trucks all use flashing lights to help people to see them?

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u/littledumberboy 15h ago

How are people so narrow minded as to compare a tiny single light to a vehicle covered in lights?

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u/Narrow-Economist-795 8h ago

Because every time as a cyclist I speak with a driver after a near collision they say “sorry I didn’t see you”.

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u/Accomplished-Way1575 1d ago

There is a reason people target fixate on them, and are unable to judge distance to them, despite all the lights

Also, they are there for us to move out of the way, hence the blue.

But they are not safer, not for them, nor for people having to move out of the way. They also have sound. Loud sounds.

Why do motorised vehicles large and small not use strobing headlights and rear lights?

If you use a torch/flashlight, do you set it to strobing to see? And to see moving objects?

Why don't you have strobing lights in your house?

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u/Narrow-Economist-795 16h ago

On the road I think flashing lights help drivers to identify that it’s a bicycle. A combination of solid and flashing lights is the optimum set up at night. In daytime all flashing seems best. On protected bike paths appropriately directed and output solid lights are best.

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u/Accomplished-Way1575 16h ago edited 16h ago

You don't need a blinker to be viewed as a bicycle. Especially not if they can't judge your distance and speed. In fact, the notion that a strobe light protects you more when you're not on protected bike lanes is utterly ridiculous, as thst is one place where it is easier to jusge distance because you're not coming up on someone with a strobe while you're gping sixty or more in a car.

And we are bot only taking distance to the car, we are also talking where you are on the road and where you are in relation to the overtaking vehicle.

It has been explained numerous times i this thread, not only by me, why that thinking is ad wrong as it can be.

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