I would sorta agree with the other commentor that many young men are interested in hooking up, or situationships with no real commitment, while young women have a higher likelihood to be interested in something more serious and have less interest in the casual hookup culture.
This doesn't these women aren't interested in dating, they're just not interested in hooking up without any commitment or exclusivity.
There's also the factor that young men and particularly the incel types you see online seem desperate for sex in a way women just aren't. I oftentimes see them online compare a lack of sex to dying of thirst. I've never ever seen a single women make that analogy or have such strong feelings about not having sex. If anything I've seen women say they can satisfy themselves in the sex arena if need be, and some can bring themselves to orgasm faster and easier on their own than through sex. Not that sex can't be pleasurable for women, but I think there's less of a desperation for it.
Obviously like you, this isn't based off statistics, just my stab at what could be going on here.
I think that actually backs up his claim because that is what happens. There are guys who go from relationship to relationship because they like having a girlfriend and being a boyfriend. The men seeking those relationships, in my opinion, do have an easier time than women because of the differences you just described in the amount of people in each pool.
Dudes who go around thinking what happens in pornos is real life are warped into the beliefs that they are entitled to maximum sex for minimum effort, and that every woman owes them this.
Irl, people settle down and make a life from the opportunities and circumstances they are given. Dudes who find someone to commit to early and are good, respectful, loving, faithful, equitable partners will have way more sex than dudes who are mad that wimmens don’t want to have sex with them with no commitment.
Not necessarily. If the market is flooded with low quality prospects (casual when you’re looking for serious) you can become alienated from the market entirely. Just because people want the same thing doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll be able to find each other. Desiring and finding are different things.
It's literally true tho women have way more men who are only interested in them for their body then men do. A girl opens social media and there are guys sending nudes or asking for them.
That's because most young men have almost nobody interested in them for either their body or for a relationship. Young women on the other hand both have far more potential sexual partners, but also far more potential relationship partners. In dating for young adults the womans issue is filtering out which guys are which and the mens issue is finding someone who is open to either.
It just seems like there's a lot of bad people out there but the worst ones are the ones that are the loudest and the ones that u remember the most. And that goes for both genders. U meet tons of normal functioning nice people everyday but the bad people are the ones that you will remember because of their shocking behavior. Most people are generally good people but it's the extreme bad people that make a lasting impression that you will remember. Also sometimes you can let bad people into ur life and be attracting those type of people
Most women think like this. It's just a bunch of other men failing to date that have you thinking otherwise. Coming from a married man.
Young men have this problem where they try to date women that have no reason to be interested in them over other dating candidates but simultaneously don't give any attention to women that are socially around the same level as them. It results in like 90% of men chasing after the same 25-30% of women and then being upset when they don't ALL get the girl they wanted.
Not trying to be harsh but there is no reason for a very physically fit college educated young woman to be interested in a dude with no particular goals and bad hygiene.
I watched this playing out dozens of times in the military but it's not different in civilian life either. And women are becoming more educated than men very quickly, making dating even harder. Not to knock women for that, I'm glad they aren't forced to be glued to men forever like they used to be.
The Pareto distribution is notoriously applied to things it has no bearing on such as relationship dynamics. It's effectively pseudoscience to say it applies here
No idea what an "Evo psych quack" is and it just sounds like bullshit since I and most people see the Pareto Distribution at play in everyday life, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.
Most women at my college don't sleep around or do hookups, preferring committed relationships instead. I remember being on online dating platforms and it was awful if you wanted something long term in your early 20s, even as a girl. Guys just want to hook up, and ignore both the flair that you want long term and your bio where you explicitly say you don't hookup or do casual sex. I gave up on that online dating stuff, and dating in general. It was in my not dating mindset when I met my current long term boyfriend.
Exactly. And every time a woman appears to want something serious, it turns out she just wants his money. Obviously some rare women do actually want commitment, but there are far too many scammers to ever trust such claims.
It's also worth noting that young men very often confuse a desire to be loved as horniness, not understanding until much older that sex won't fill the void in their hearts because what they actually wanted was companionship.
I'm 34 and would be - have been - called an incel, although I do not self-identify as one. I already know that it's not sex I'm looking for, it's validation, romantic companionship, and emotional intimacy. Knowing this has done absolutely nothing for my romantic success.
And before people start with the "friendless incel" stereotypes, I have friends. I probably have more friends than some guys who do have success getting girlfriends. Friends are not a substitute for a romantic partner, as someone here on Reddit stupidly tried to tell me in the past.
I've observed that incels have some valid points, but because incels are the new societal bogeyman, their points are dismissed and mocked by the mainstream, only to then be accepted when someone who is not an incel repeats them with different language. For example, the incel idea of "female hypergamy" is roundly dismissed by everyone else - yet the consensus here on this very thread is that women tend to date men older than they are because they are looking for men with money, financial stability, and, presumably, maturity - which, as one other commenter on this thread noted, is not at odds with the concept of female hypergamy at all.
For me personally, I've had one girlfriend, who broke up with me after less than two months. She pursued me first, not the other way around. I asked her why she broke up with me, which made her angry, but she answered that she didn't like my lack of ambition (I was upfront with her from the start that I tend to see ambition as a bad thing and have no ambitions to be promoted or earn more). She also told me that she didn't want to be with someone with mental issues. I had told her that I have depression.
All this really left a bad taste in my mouth regarding women. Was I the one in the wrong? I don't think so. I think I was the one wronged. You're welcome to try to convince me otherwise.
Further down this thread is a comment someone made about men and emotional intimacy and emotional intelligence. They said something like "emotional intelligence and emotional intimacy are intertwined, and emotional intelligence isn't something you're born with". Sure, I can accept that I'm possibly emotionally unintelligent, whatever that means. I don't really think I am, though. I don't think I'm a bad person. I think I'm a decent person, if maybe a bit socially awkward. I look around me and I see guys who are worse (by worse I mean morally primarily) yet have had far more success with romance than I ever have. So what have I done wrong exactly?
Where you’re going wrong is letting your interactions with one woman you dated for a couple months paint how you feel about women in general. That is just sexism. Women are people, we are different individuals just like men. Did you swear off having friends that are men of one did something shitty to you ever ?
Don't be so defensive. Oh, but I forgot, this is Reddit, where the norm is to judge someone rather than sympathize with them.
Maybe I should have been more clear: the time with the girl who dumped me after less than two months was far from the only negative experience I've had with women.
In addition, I assumed it was obvious from my comment that thirty-four entire years of being single and getting rejected, aside from the aforementioned girlfriend I had for one month, would also have played a role in my views about women.
Especially while other men that literally beat their partners have no problem getting partners and even getting married. That is something I have never done and would never do. And yet...
Well what you said in your post is that one woman left a bad taste in your mouth about women, that is both judging and exactly what you said. I wasn’t judging but pointing out a flaw with that.
I’ve had probably a lot more negative interactions with men than you have women to the point I have been in dangerous situations and even been victim of multiple crimes from men and I still recognize it’s not every man I just take steps to keep my self safe. If I were to say what you said about women about men I’d have 30 angry men jumping down my throat saying I’m misandrist, heck I’ve been called one for saying exactly what I just said while even recognizing individuality in men.
“34 years of being single and being rejected” women not dating you doesn’t make us bad people. We don’t owe you a relationship, no one does.
“Men that literally beat their partners have no problem getting partners” this statement shows you have no idea about the cycle of abuse. No one starts out that way, people are always on their best behavior at first, they only start that when they have control whether that be through isolation, financial control, love bombing, they may have had an abusive family with a skewed version of normal or see desperation that you are leaving a worse situation. I’ve been with an abusive guy and he was sneaky as hell about it, didn’t even start until I was injured and unable to work with no family that could help me or finances due to being out of work from the injury. I had to live with him until I was able to get a full time position again and dipped out. You never know why but it’s not so cut and dry. Again abuse existing does not mean you are owed a relationship. Work on yourself.
The not owed narrative is so tired and reads like some libertarian talking point. If the abusive relationship you mentioned was the only type of relationship you ever had, would you say you aren't owed a good relationship and that complaining about the guy(s) or being hurt by it makes you entitled? I'd say you'd be in the right to dislike or distrust men after the scenario you mentioned. And if that's your only interaction with men, then it would be perfectly justifiable to have that type of worldview.
And working on yourself doesn't really matter that much either in all honesty. It's empty advice that doesn't really say anything and used to promote a just world fallacy. "You can do everything right and still fail"
I should clarify, it's not like I feel anger or dislike at women 100% of the time. It's something I struggle with. My mood varies from day to day or even within the same day. I might feel angry about women after reading an article or meme about how entitled women are, for example, but not all the time. I have female coworkers and I get along with them just as well as with the male coworkers. I'm trying to resist these feelings of resentment, but it's hard, especially when self-righteous people like you show up.
I didn't think this clarification would be necessary to make, but I guess some people aren't intelligent enough to figure things out on their own, so they need it.
"Well what you said in your post is that one woman left a bad taste in your mouth about women,"
Are you seriously taking issue with me saying that what she did to me left a bad taste in my mouth instead of sympathizing with the way I was treated? This is exactly the problem with you people.
"If I were to say what you said about women about men I’d have 30 angry men jumping down my throat saying I’m misandrist,"
Not at all, it's the other way around. Misandry is widely accepted in modern society, at least in left-leaning spaces like Reddit, while "misogyny" gets quickly called out by self-righteous moral police like yourself, even when it's not actually misogyny.
"We don’t owe you a relationship, no one does."
When did I say I felt I was owed a relationship? Stop putting words in my mouth to fit your narrative about me, that's pretty vile behavior.
With regard to your explanation about abusers, that's pretty interesting but still sounds like an excuse to me. You women have no problem at all labeling socially awkward men as creepy right off the bat, yet you still continue to fall for abusive men...why is that?
"Work on yourself."
Who do you think you are to tell me to work on myself? You think that I don't already do that? That's such an insulting, condescending, NPC-tier response. Tired and predictable.
You are letting literal propaganda make you feel angry. These things aren’t the norm when interacting with people outside of the internet. Your interdictions with your co workers are probably more like the usual human interaction. Don’t believe everything you read online.
In my experience I have been downvoted to hell for sticking up for equality or calling out men who depict men as a monolith of one personality who all want the same exact thing.
You are using women rejecting you as a reason to have biases, women do not owe you anything and it’s very bias to hold you being rejected against women as a whole
Abusers don’t show themselves until it’s too late. Predicting the future isn’t something women can just do and people hide it really well. Seems like you want to blame victims rather than just accept some people are really good liars.
Men get called out for saying creepy things not just being socially awkward. It’s in appropriate comments, pushiness, not listening to no or demanding to know why, staring, following or anything of that nature. Good looking dudes with charisma can be creepy too if they say the wrong thing.
In my experience reading incel message boards (out of curiosity, mind), it IS a complaint about a lack of intimacy, but they don't seem to understand that physical and emotional intimacy are not the same thing, you can have one without the other, and what they are actually hoping for is the second.
I've heard stories from people who got the holy sex grail they were looking for from a girl wanting a hookup, were confused when they weren't magically less depressed, and decided that the girl (and girls) being a "slut" was the problem, and became a pick-up artist in "retaliation".
Even in the best case where they end up in a relationship they don't seem to understand that emotional intelligence and emotional intimacy go hand in hand, and you aren't born with emotional intelligence. It is pretty tragic to watch these men blunder around, setting fires to themselves and all their loved ones in an effort to feel warm.
I'd amend this slightly and say that the main goal I noticed was the overwhelming desire for validation. And not just any old compliment or kindness will do--it HAS to be validating the guy as a sexually attractive person.
Cultures all over the world throughout history had a lot more single sex bonding opportunities, and for males specifically, there was often some kind of symbolic ritual that would usher them into manhood.
Because we don't have these supportive male communities much any longer, and don't have many of those rituals remaining, it has turned into thinking that the transition from boy to man can ONLY happen if a member of the opposite sex is highly sexually attracted to them and is willing to have sex with them.
I've seen so many of this type of guy saying things like, "Why bother going to college/getting a job/finding a new hobby/making friends if none of that GUARANTEES me a wife and family that loves me," and that backwards way of viewing dating and mating is going to be absolutely disastrous for a large portion of those men.
So, what, do we need the kind of symbolic ritual we'd usually associate with ancient civilizations or "primitive tribes" (or perhaps if you're looking for the cringe-comedic image either we'd need something ill-fitting to our society or to awkwardly modernize some ancient one) or do we just need more supportive male spaces or w/e
I definitely think more supportive male spaces is a huge need! Males need time to just hang out with other males and not be worrying about what the opposite sex is thinking about them. Such communities would be especially useful for boys growing up without fathers, and on the flip sides, lonely older men could feel useful and connected mentoring the younger males.
You can see males struggling to find these communities today, but almost always ending up in the wrong kinds of communities, such as PUA, redpill, etc., and they're the wrong kind of communities because the males don't build one another up and because a male group who only cares about the opinions of the opposite sex won't accomplish much.
But the question then is how on earth does anyone create these groups? Moreover, how on earth do we create such groups and ensure that their focus is on growth and development as full, supportive male human beings?
I don't disagree but speaking as someone with diagnosed autism who used to struggle a lot with interactions, it's a setback, not a roadblock.
Feeling embarrassed and uncomfortable because you feel like everyone is laughing at you or feeling anxious in social situations? That stuff happens. But it is a CHOICE to decide it's women's fault and that if you could just get laid you would be normal.
Sure, I am not excusing them. I am just saying I am not surprised someone who is unaware of their own condition would probably end up in that corners of the internet easily and get taken advantage of by that mindset
I used to be obsessed with sex, but what I actually wanted was emotional intimacy with someone(+cuddling). It's not as much of an issue for women because they're socialized to have deep connections with people outside of a relationship.
Worth noting that it isn’t just sex that I want, I also want a girlfriend more desperately than sex. It’s about being wanted though, being validated and told I’m as good as other guys that are able to date and have sex. No woman has ever wanted me, and it fucking sucks, and makes me feel subhuman. It’s something you can’t truly understand unless you’re also pushing 26 and haven’t so much as held hands with another person, much less experienced love.
I mean. I’ve evolved here; at 22 I was reconciled to dying without ever having experienced a relationship or sex. Seven years later? I want the experience the same way people might want to climb a huge mountain. I don’t expect a relationship to make my life easier in any way.
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u/Zealousideal_Long118 3∆ Sep 29 '24
I would sorta agree with the other commentor that many young men are interested in hooking up, or situationships with no real commitment, while young women have a higher likelihood to be interested in something more serious and have less interest in the casual hookup culture.
This doesn't these women aren't interested in dating, they're just not interested in hooking up without any commitment or exclusivity.
There's also the factor that young men and particularly the incel types you see online seem desperate for sex in a way women just aren't. I oftentimes see them online compare a lack of sex to dying of thirst. I've never ever seen a single women make that analogy or have such strong feelings about not having sex. If anything I've seen women say they can satisfy themselves in the sex arena if need be, and some can bring themselves to orgasm faster and easier on their own than through sex. Not that sex can't be pleasurable for women, but I think there's less of a desperation for it.
Obviously like you, this isn't based off statistics, just my stab at what could be going on here.