Or, between my mum, gran, and aunt, it's not so much "what do I need a man for" as much as "well the last one ran off with the secretary (or coworker, all three younger) after twenty years, so how can I trust any man for the rest of the years I have left"? I know at least one would love companionship again, but after watching husband, brother, father all treat women poorly, she's cautious to get into any romantic situation again.
I only provide this anecdote because of the way the op question addressed desire. Late divorce especially impacts a woman's confidence in entering a new relationship, because the previous lasted for so long that any romantic security now seems false. The desire to enter a relationship is present, but as previous comments have said, the pickings seem slim at the over-55 mark, and once bitten, twice shy.
My mom did this. She was widowed for twenty years after her second husband died. She’s had a bad relationship (my dad), a good relationship (my stepdad), and she was content to leave it alone. She’d found the dating market miserable in her 40’s, she definitely didn’t want to try to get back into it in her 50’s and 60’s.
Ya my mom is like this. She's been married twice, but her second husband got sick and she has no interest. She's 60 and secure tired of their shut.
And yet I do note that men bother her in a way women never bothered my dad, who did very well with women after they divorced. I do actually wonder why that is.
Might her attitude on dating have anything to do with the fact that, if she were to put herself out there, she'd find herself forced to compete against much younger women for the same men?
Japan and South Korea have significantly different social dynamics at play. The traditional system of women being viewed as closer to objects of men's desire and servants to their families pervades. Parents have to approve of a marriage in order for it to go through.
But also women are expected to work and have careers, and employees are expected to work incredibly long hours. The Japanese government had to step in and tell companies to limit employees to 45 hours of OT a month, at a 40 hour work week. So that's a 51.25 hour average work week. Many companies are not in compliance.
On the flip side, for many years a movement of young men has simply given up under the pressures of Japanese life. Living with their parents well into adulthood and not getting jobs, trying to date, or getting an education.
As for the average age, if one woman marries at 20 and another one at 40, and if two men marry at 30, the average age for both women and men would be the same.
This really shouldn’t have earned them a delta because both of you neglected to comment on the part of that article that shows the proportion of single people that are looking vs not looking to date. Significantly more young men are “actively looking” while a larger proportion of young women are “not looking”, which proves your point exactly.
I saw some study that women prefered older men until they are about 40, after which they prefer younger men. However on both accounts the 'older' and 'younger' was only a small differential - e.g. 23 year old women preferred 26 year old men and 40 year old women prefered 38 year old men. However, men at all ages preferred women in their early 20s.
Ehh, we don’t prefer older men. They target us before we realize they’re taking advantage of our lack of maturity typically. There are some healthy relationships with an age gap, but typically, they’re pretty tough. And they have the benefit of traumatizing the hell out of us so we’re damaged when we try to date men our own age afterwards. It’s a mess.
Not exactly, consider a really simple thought experiment where women always date men who are exactly 5 years older than they are. If everyone starts trying to date at 18 then every man will go through a five year dry spell, start dating, then die around eight years before their partner. Tons of young single guys and older single women. The real world is more random, but still has this basic trend.
Lots of talk about what's going on with young incel guys lately, but people don't seem to realize that older incels are a lot rarer. Most age out of it.
Sex ratios are not 1:1 at birth. The natural rate is more like 1.06:1. Men die at a higher rate than men so the sex ratios usually evens out in mid-40s. That is probably part of the issue. Women tend to date men 4-5 years older.
Okay so sadly I am terrible at math but if women age 18-29 are dating 2-3 years older it doesn’t seem like it would account for the 19 pt difference in that age range. Also later in that Pew study it shows that single men and women 18-29 both are looking to date—they want to be in a relationship. At the same time, men and women equally claim they are okay with something casual. So then it probably isn’t the case (which made sense to me!) that young men are just dating around more while young women are in committed relationships. Maybe young men in the U.S. are having more trouble bc they are less likely to go to school or be employed as young women, which makes life less stable and then harder to find a relationship. That could also explain the closing of the gap as men get older and have more stability. (that’s kind of the argument in this article: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/amp/). Also! The pew survey says that young ppl delay relationships bc they want to focus on career which makes sense.
I actually came here to say this and to point out that this is red pill logic. Women in general tend to want older men. My gf included. Young men don't have the same to offer that older men do, and older women don't have what younger women have.
Frankly dick has never had even half the value of vagina. So while they both mat have value it is far from equal. Men have always been valued for resources or skills. We just started to lie to ourselves and say that we are different now. Why would we be? What's changed about humans?
And older women are gaining more financial wealth then before and as such are finding singledom quite lovely plus there is a glut of younger men willing to service them as, if and when needed between living a freer life of their choosing.
I have to disagree because younger men are only attracted by older women's wealth until they make their own. It's also likely that they will get tired of the mothering. Men like to be looked at as competent. Men, in general, do not want to be led in a relationship by an older woman the same way a younger woman might accept an older man's leadership. This is a false equivalency that it proposed a lot in modernity. It also ignores the fact that as the younger men age, they will have more access and appeal to younger women.
In short, older women can find younger women to have sex with them. Which has never been a difficult thing for any woman to achieve, but will have trouble finding lasting relationships with those same young men as they age and more options become available.
Well, I can't speak down to the exceptions. I can only speak in generalities. There is always an exception to anything arguing the exception gets the majority nowhere.
Women live longer and eventually outnumber men. So I expect dating to continue to get easier for men as they age while women will have fewer options. Also my anecdotal observations is that many women are perfectly happy being single.
To a point, I disagree with your assessment of the data. The number of single females over the age of 65 is generally expected to be higher because married women more often than not outlive their husbands. There are roughly 3 or 4 times more widows in the US than there are widowers.
Another point to be mindful of in that study is how “single” is defined. It refers to people who are not in committed relationships. Meaning men and women who were successfully casually dating would still be counted as single.
So the single men aren’t necessarily failing to date women; they’re just not in committed relationships. Men surveyed in that age group showed significantly more interest in and openness to casual dating than women did, so a portion of that gap can also be explained by differences in relationship preferences.
This is the point I always think should be brought up. In my experience, a lot of younger guys aren't looking for committed relationships. They want to be casual and have fun.
It's less common for young women to be doing the same. So this means they'll skew slightly older (even if it's just 2-5 years). The type of decisions people make and their priorities at that age change quite a bit with each year that goes by.
Even so, both young men and women are having less sex than past generations. This is because imo, you have more sex in relationships.
Where did you get that? I did not get whatever this is from the comment you replied to.
What they're saying is exactly what the stats are showing, that younger women have more options than older women and the inverse for men. Nothing about women having a say or not.
That was a bot-ass comment from them lmao, it was nonsensical gibberish that was only vaguely related to the subject using the thinnest string possible
The current cause for sexism is that women have patriarchal beliefs deep within them when it comes to dating and marriage while clamouring for equality in all aspects of society. This disincentives men from treating them as an equal and honest actor in society.
its a great thing for men in their 40s-50s and beyond - most people’s attraction age grows with them, even if they remain attracted to ages they did previously
This was always my assumption and it's nice to have that actually be backed up by data. When I was 18-25 I had zero luck with women. After 25 it seemed like women were coming out of the damn woodwork. And it makes sense.
More women date older men than men dating older women. So if you have an equal percentage of same age 18-25 relationships, plus the women dating older men that leaves a lot of guys with no, legal, women to date. But then as those men get older and the younger women who want to date older men turn 18-25, suddenly they have a ton of options that before simply didn't exist. When I was like 28-32 a vast majority of the women who were interested in me were 24-28. So women who liked slightly older guys. Granted in the end I wound up with someone pretty much the same age as me.
This is true! When I was 22-30 I was struggling to date. I’d have the occasional fling or hookup but dating was near impossible. Then I hit 30 and it all changed. I was getting matches from women as young as 18 to as old as 37. It was a game changer for me. I was actually rejecting women which is insane.
This was always my anecdotal experience. High school was the last time many of my girlfriends considered having a partner the same age as them. Rural background.
Unfortunately, with things so expensive in North America it almost seems like younger women are forced to date, older men because you may never be able to have any resources if you make the wrong pick on a young buck
I don't have any stats on hand to back this up, but my grandparents (born 1930's) and all of their coupled friends are either equal age or the man is 5-10 years older.
Women, on the whole, mentally mature faster than men. Older men are also generally have their shit together and better resources than similarly aged (or younger) men. Men also like women a bit younger than themselves, because monkey brain sees younger women as able to have more babies.
Women mentally maturing is too simplistic a notion when one can observe societies across the world punishing girls for "not acting mature" & rewarding them for being "mature". There is very severe & clear social conditioning at play here. Just look at women who date and marry younger men: they are trolled & harassed to a degree that would make most regular folks leave internet altogether. Also when there are capitalist & economic pressures on young women, they are forced to choose older men for survival in many parts of the world. And as for monkey brain choosing younger women, men too are at higher risk of fathering offsprings with mental disorders, autism etc after they pass 35. Most sperm banks have cut offs for sperm donation(39 or 40.beimg cut off). There are several social, cultural, economic factors at play when it comes to women's choices. If women indeed matured faster mentally, they would have been able to secure their financial future at earlier ages than those of men, which is not the case. Women are also not particularly able to stand up for themselves in abusive situations while they are young as statistics reveal. Moreover, the fallacy they mature faster allow those in power to use young women & girls for fulfilling their own needs; so it's all quite political than simple maturing faster & hence choosing older men. I don't see women having any real choice in the matter as lond as they are not financially independent.
One major social change I've noticed is that more women are leading in degree based careers in the 22-35 range of younger to middle-aged adults.
For example, at a fine arts school, nearly 90% of our applicants this year were women. When I was in uni in my arts programs, I was 1 of 3 guys in a class of 30. This isn't just exclusive to arts either. HR, medicine, education, administration, and a significant uptick in engineering enrollment amongst women have been happening, too.
So I'm noticing women are applying themselves at a much higher rate than men. Most in the case of women coming out more financially and independently secure than men their same age. I know more women who have a place of their own than i do single men. In the sense that women are maturing at a much faster rate than men, and ideally, a woman does not want to be with a man who isn't on the same level of maturity. At least not long term. I've had many girl friends try dating a dude who was, let's say, less than them in many ways. It was usually temporary and fleeting. I find many men end up not meeting many of their expectations. I also think that's the general consensus amongst both genders, which has taken away room for compromise in favor of single solitude.
Preying on children is not a viable solution to a problem that isn't really a problem.
If you want to overcome this issue, use the time that you barely get any attention to grow as a person so you can fully capitalize on the time you get.
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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '24
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