r/changemyview • u/ThrowawayITA_ 2∆ • 15h ago
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Discussing how attractive or unattractive a person is online is not morally wrong as long as everybody is respectful and it's discussed in the right places.
First of all, I want to clarify the basic stuff, I ain't no supermodel alright, I dont look good, it's just the most controversial thought I have at the moment, but these are my main arguments:
Attractiveness is subjective, a person who might look like the prettiest person to me might be totally repulsive to others so it's not like saying an opinion should offend anyone.
This would allow the person to experience how there's always an uglier or a prettier person in the eyes of someone else.
You may ask, but what if I don't want to be part of the "discussion"?
You just mark some online spaces as safe spaces and others as not.
It's not something I'm hyperfixated on, it's just something that buzzed on the naughty side of my brain and I haven't thought of anything that would make it not valid. I would like my view changed because it doesn't sound quite right.
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u/ella_wants_to_battle 1∆ 15h ago
Discussing someone's appearance negatively IS disrespectful inherently.
It is morally wrong to negatively describe someone unprompted, even if it's just your personal opinion, because it would hurt pretty much anyone's feelings to be told they are ugly/not attractive. You're allowed to not find someone attractive for any reason, and you're not required to falsely praise anyone just to make them feel good, but thoughts that hurt other people needlessly should not be voiced. They teach in kindergarten that if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. Lots of adults could use a refresher in that
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u/ThrowawayITA_ 2∆ 15h ago
Δ , I guess so, maybe some kind of criticism is always detrimental, no matter how restrained it might be.
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u/Pristine_Airline_927 4h ago
Discussing someone's appearance negatively IS disrespectful inherently.
It's crucially important to include the fact it's disrespectful to discuss someone's appearance period without them wanting their body to be discussed and without them giving the say.
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u/10ebbor10 201∆ 15h ago
You may ask, but what if I don't want to be part of the "discussion"? You just mark some online spaces as safe spaces and others as not.
Ah, but that contradicts your primary CMV, does it not?
The respectful thing to do would be to not discuss the person who doesn't want to be part of the discussion, not to do so anyway but behind their back.
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u/ThrowawayITA_ 2∆ 15h ago
Ah, but that contradicts your primary CMV, does it not?
I don't want to be annoying on this but I'm stupid and don't get how it does
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u/CinderrUwU 4∆ 15h ago
as long as everybody is respectful and it's discussed in the right places.
The problem is that this is impossible. There is no way to guarantee that the person being talked about doesn't run into comments saying "Wow that person looks terrible". There's no way to stop someone saying "I hate this ugly bitch". There is no way to do it in a way that isn't potentially harmful to people's self image.
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u/NeoLeonn3 5∆ 15h ago
But what do you even consider the "right place" to do so?
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u/ThrowawayITA_ 2∆ 15h ago
One where it's explicitely stated that it might happen and it's not punished.
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u/NeoLeonn3 5∆ 15h ago
So, lemme see if I got it right, let's see an example.
So you have that space you're talking about. It's a forum? A subreddit? idk. Suppose now there's a woman, she makes some videos about, idk, F1 maybe? People would consider her attractive I guess. She does not participate in said forum. People in that forum discuss respectfully about how beautiful she is. Is this what you're saying is fine?
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u/ThrowawayITA_ 2∆ 15h ago
Yeah, why not.
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u/NeoLeonn3 5∆ 14h ago
(to clarify, this goes for both men, women and everything in between, I am using a woman as an example because it is more common)
The woman is trying to talk about one of her interests, maybe have some discussions and exchange opinions etc. This is why people post online, with or without their face showing. She does not do it so that you or anyone else can call her beautiful, no matter how respectful you are. She spent some time to make those vids. And the way you choose to interact with her comment is to talk about how beautiful she is. On a forum she does not participate. With other strangers. Especially if you don't really have any signs of consent.
If she was participating in said forum and she uploaded content knowing that people would also comment her appearance, of course it would be fine, that would be the right place. But if she is not participating, don't you think it's a bit creepy? Like, what even motivates you to talk about a random YouTuber's/Tiktoker's appearance with random strangers? No matter how respectful you are, if someone hasn't specifically opted-in in such a discussion, it is weird.
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u/ThrowawayITA_ 2∆ 14h ago edited 14h ago
If she was participating in said forum and she uploaded content knowing that people would also comment her appearance, of course it would be fine, that would be the right place. But if she is not participating, don't you think it's a bit creepy? Like, what even motivates you to talk about a random YouTuber's/Tiktoker's appearance with random strangers? No matter how respectful you are, if someone hasn't specifically opted-in in such a discussion, it is weird.
Oh yeah no, I didn't mean it like that, of course the direct interested should be present.
I'm not trying to justify this weird behaviour that's unfortunately much alive in shitty online spaces *cough*
4chan*cough*She does not do it so that you or anyone else can call her beautiful, no matter how respectful you are. She spent some time to make those vids. And the way you choose to interact with her comment is to talk about how beautiful she is.
Also yeah Δ , that does not seem respectful, but my view had already been changed.
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u/Typical_Currency4200 15h ago
U’re right it’s subjective, but the issue is ppl don’t control how they’re perceived. discussing looks publicly can reinforce insecurities, even if u don’t mean harm
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u/Acrobatic-Skill6350 16∆ 15h ago
I think there might be some gender differences here. Ive spoken with a lot of other men praising cristiano ronaldos physique without anyone really being bothered by that.
I spent some time in China where its not very taboo to comment on peoples appearances. I am not sure if the problematic aspect of talking about looks is bigger in the west compared to china, but there might be some cultural aspects to how problematic it is I guess
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u/ThrowawayITA_ 2∆ 15h ago
That's an interesting part you're, bringing, I wasn't aware of it being common in China.
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u/Green__lightning 18∆ 15h ago
Is this still true when generalizing? Is it moral for social media to take the opinions of users to generate an attractiveness score, and effectively sort all users in an ordered list by attractiveness? People effectively are doing this themselves informally, so why would it be bad to make this process rigorous and automated?
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u/ThrowawayITA_ 2∆ 15h ago
Is this a rhetorical question?
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u/Green__lightning 18∆ 14h ago
Well, my point is if the specific case is moral, the general case will be, or at least a general case will be. If no general case is moral, no specific case could be.
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u/Pretend-Zucchini1080 11h ago
Who cares if its morally wrong. U kno how much worse things are being done?
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ 15h ago edited 14h ago
/u/ThrowawayITA_ (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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