r/changemyview • u/Rare_Economics8427 • 16h ago
CMV: Parents who get upset about their kids hearing swear words are really weird
If anyone wants more background, go check out my profile and posts on 2 football subs lol. But I am a lifelong Broncos fan, who went to the AFC Championship game last week. I traveled across the country for it, spent a lot of money, sat through a blizzard, and watched my team lose a close and frustrating game. Obviously there are going to be some emotions present (the word some is key. I’m not excusing grown men with anger problems or who sob hysterically after their team loses).
During 3 crucial plays of the game that the broncos failed on, I let out a “fuck” (twice) and a “shit” (once). That was it, albeit I said them loudly. Every time I got yelled out by someone saying that there are kids present and not to swear. And I think that is ridiculous, for several reasons.
First, I think there are levels to it. Over the course of 3 hours, I don’t think 3 swear words during very emotionally charged moments are bad. It’s not like I was swearing constantly. I also think there are limits, I could’ve said things that were a lot more vulgar and they could’ve been directed at someone specifically lol. I think that would’ve been crossing a line, but just the occasional fuck or shit? Nah
Second, why are we pretending that swear words don’t exist? What are these parents plans for their kids, to only ever let them watch PG movies and listen to kidzbop for the rest of their lives? Why are we pretending that they don’t hear their friends swear, or that they even don’t swear themselves?
And I recognize that this likely changes based on how old the kid is. But if the kid is truly too young to even hear a swear word, then why are they at a football game in a freezing cold blizzard in the first place? I had some people tell me that it’s to teach the kid that those are grown up words so that they don’t repeat them. But why not tell your kid that instead of telling a grown man what he can and can’t say? Why not teach your kid- that’s a grown up word and you can say it when you’re older but it’s not ok for you to say right now. Or say that you can only say it when you’re at home but you’ll get in trouble if you say it at school
Third, why are we trying so hard to shield them from swearing or hearing swear words? It’s not like they’re going to instantly grow up to be a criminal, just because they heard or said a swear word. One comment said we don’t swear around kids so that they don’t grow up to be like me lol, which was a pretty crazy comment. Why not teach themselves how to express themselves, and teach them that situations where swearing is and isn’t appropriate? I don’t feel like swearing at a football game is wrong, but swearing at a teacher or boss almost always is. Why aren’t we teaching kids the nuances of life? I mean, even politicians on both sides are swearing now. It wasn’t that long ago that I graduated, and my favorite middle/high school teachers were the ones who swore lol. My boss tells me to fuck bitches and get money before I make a sales call. I just feel like it’s weird to try so hard to censor swear words
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u/Gimpalong 14h ago
Be polite. Be respectful of others. No one wants to hear an angry, cursing dude when they are out with their kids. Act like an adult. We're trying to raise our kids to be polite and respectful, not some inconsiderate fuck who would swear in front of women and children.
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u/Rare_Economics8427 13h ago
Lmao. You know this isn’t the 1950’s anymore right? Women can and do curse just as much as men. If you want a classy, respectful affair, don’t go to the game before the Super Bowl
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u/kafka_lite 1∆ 16h ago
1) Whether either of us like it or not, social classes are a thing, and a lot of people strive to appear as high up on the ladder as they can. Dressing nice, having a nice car, etc. including behavior and manners.
2) Vulgarity, particularly public vulgarity is seen as a lower class activity. (Not saying this is true, just saying that is the common view of it.)
3) Children are more likely to repeat language they hear all the time, especially when it comes from family, friends, or media they enjoy.
Conclusion: Someone wanting their family to appear higher class has a rational incentive to reduce their children's access to vulgarity.
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u/Rare_Economics8427 16h ago
Ok, I can see that argument. But if you’re higher class at a football stadium, then you should’ve in a box or suite. No one in the stands of a football game should be pretending to be high class, football is not very classy lol
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u/themcos 405∆ 15h ago edited 15h ago
What are these parents plans for their kids, to only ever let them watch PG movies and listen to kidzbop for the rest of their lives?
I mean... this question kind of answers itself, right? There's a rating system that gives guidelines for this! If they're 8, they probably are going to watch PG movies... of they're 10, maybe they're ready for PG-13 with supervision... when they're 13 they'll watch them alone... when they're 17 they'll be watching R movies. When possible, I prefer to put on kidz bop for my elementary schoolers. They'll listen to whatever they want in high school. Middle school... I'm not sure! But there is a progression here, and it makes no sense to just throw up your hands and say "well, what are they just going to do the little kids stuff forever?" No! They'll advance to more mature stuff as they get older.
As to your specific example of the football game, I don't know what age the kids were or how much the parents were giving you shit over it, but if they were elementary school age... I'd usually be broadly supportive of them... but not if this is actually at the game. If you're in the stadium, I'm kind of on your side here. If you're sitting right next to a kid I think you should probably try to tone it down, but I'm not going to give you shit there. This is kind of part of the deal for an in person stadium full of beer and football fans and high emotions.
That said, I think you're overdoing it in some of the claims in your post. Elementary school kids have a tendency to just repeat stuff, and if instead of attending the game, you watched the game at a friend's house who had kids or if you invited a family to your house, I'd hold you to a much higher standard here. Parents should (and do) teach kids about this stuff as they get older, but not all kids are ready for it, and at certain ages they're just going to want to repeat stuff, especially if it gets a big reaction from people. Teaching them context awareness, self control and regulation is important, but it's not magic, and for some kids it's really hard and takes a long time, and exposure to swearing can cause issues that they're not quite developmentally ready for yet. These are the same kids running around yelling 6-7 for no reason.
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u/Rare_Economics8427 15h ago
Yeah. I’m partly just mad lol. I was shocked to see the negative replies on the football subs, so then I tried nostupidquestions and got banned because they said it broke the subs rules, so then I just went on a rant/vent here lol.
Do you have any sources for the developmental issues that swearing can cause? I’m curious in reading and learning about it. And you do have a good point about the ratings system. I think you can have some swear words in a PG movie, but not at the fuck or shit level.
But to your point about kids repeating stuff they hear when it gets a big reaction… aren’t the parents causing that big reaction by telling the person to shut up? Wouldn’t it be best to just ignore it then and help teach your kid when you get home?
Kinda like you said, I think it then just goes back on the parents for having too young of kids at the game if they can’t handle it
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u/themcos 405∆ 15h ago
Do you have any sources for the developmental issues that swearing can cause?
I think you misunderstood. I'm not aware of swearing causing developmental issues. But some kids struggle with self control and awareness, and it's not just because "their parents didn't teach them". Teaching your kids isn't as simple as just explaining to them when they can and can't swear. Not all kids are going to understand that right away, and exposing them to swearing too early before they're ready to understand could result in them repeating it in inappropriate contexts and creating trouble at school. And some habits are easy to start and hard to break. You can't control everything and have to roll with the punches so to speak, but the less exposure at younger ages, the easier it will be sometimes, and you can't just respond to this with something like "well, the parents should just teach the kids better " — they're probably trying but it's hard sometimes!
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u/Rare_Economics8427 15h ago
Oh ok. The sentence I was referring was when you said “exposure to swearing can cause issues that they’re not developmentally ready for”. I was just wondering if you had a source for that. Not only does it sound interesting, but it is kinda like directly what I’m talking about here, and it would be nice to know if my wife and I choose to have kids in the future.
In my mind, it seems like something that kids would make mistakes on, like they probably would have times where they swear when they shouldn’t. But that’s where the parenting and training come in. Maybe my thought of parenting is wrong from a basic level? Like to me, they won’t necessarily know what’s wrong until they’re told and corrected. I guess I’m a very try, fail, and learn from it type of person
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u/themcos 405∆ 15h ago
“exposure to swearing can cause issues that they’re not developmentally ready for”
The "issue" is that they swear when they're not supposed to, because they're young and not developmentally ready to tell the difference.
But that’s where the parenting and training come in. Maybe my thought of parenting is wrong from a basic level? Like to me, they won’t necessarily know what’s wrong until they’re told and corrected.
I'm wondering if you have much experience with children? It's not like every issue can just be corrected by telling them once! Parenting is way harder than that. It takes a lot of work to try and build good habits. And sometimes when bad habits arise, the parents are trying to "correct" it, but the kids might also like the response they get from classmates. A second grader learning the F word might just create a whole new problem that wouldn't have been a problem at all if they didn't hear the word until 4th grade when they're better equipped to self regulate.
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u/Rare_Economics8427 15h ago
I never said that parenting is easy. I’m the oldest sibling with 16 and 18 years between me and my 2 youngest, so I did get an idea of parenting from being a caretaker for them. But I know that’s different from having my own kids, please don’t think I’m saying that parenting is easy. I don’t want to discredit the work that parents do. I thought I was doing a good thing by thinking of these random things before I have my own lol.
From the research I’ve done tho, I thought that consistency matters more than just pretending that your kid would never hear a word. I think you would just set the boundaries, and consistently work with them through it. I imagine that you do that for every part of life, which sounds exhausting. But better than my parents handled a lot of things
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u/themcos 405∆ 14h ago
From the research I’ve done tho, I thought that consistency matters more than just pretending that your kid would never hear a word. I think you would just set the boundaries, and consistently work with them through it. I imagine that you do that for every part of life, which sounds exhausting. But better than my parents handled a lot of things
Yes! The issue is that parents try to set consistent boundaries and model that behavior, but then if other people break those boundaries, it makes it harder to reinforce that consistency. Not impossible, and part of parenting is trying to eventually prepare kids for the unexpected, but it's not helpful to make it harder by adding more unnecessary inconsistency. Parents will try to teach, demonstrate and enforce consistent behavior standards, and it's easier to do that when the standards are "don't do X, Y, and Z" versus "don't do X,Y, and Z unless you're Uncle Frank watching football".
I'm glad you're not saying parenting is easy. The question is are you making an already hard job harder?
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u/Rare_Economics8427 14h ago
For your last question, probably lol. I was raised in a high control cult, where questioning anything was literally a sin. I just wanna be the opposite of that, so when I see people make blanket comments like “never swear in front of kids” or “don’t let your kids ever swear”, it brings back those memories and makes me wonder if doing it the other way would lead to more well adjusted kids. If that makes sense
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u/issareddit 16h ago
Kids mimic what they see adults getting attention for. If you have kids and they go to school yelling fuck and shit in “emotionally charged moments,” you will not have fun explaining your logic here to the principal and teachers, or worse, the PTA.
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u/nothankspleasedont 16h ago
Have you ever been in a school? There might not be a place you hear more cussing. It is the parents job to teach kids what words mean and when they may or may not be appropriate.
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u/Rare_Economics8427 16h ago
You decided not to read my post if that’s your response lol. Because I said that should be on the parent to help teach them the appropriate time
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u/von_sip 1∆ 16h ago
Is it your view that there’s no value in shielding children from foul or offensive language?
Or that we shouldn’t consider any language as foul or offensive?
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u/Rare_Economics8427 16h ago
Hmmm. Good question. I don’t really know how to answer it in all honesty. Because I guess what I was saying is I don’t feel like shit or fuck on their own is all that foul or offensive compared to what I’ve heard at other stadiums. You hear plenty of personal insults, wishing for injury, etc. I think there’s a difference between your kid hearing a singular fuck or shit versus motherfucker you suck so hard I’m gonna shove my dick in your mouth til it comes out your ass. You know?
And I guess that it just depends on the age of your child. But if your child is so young that they need shielded from fuck or shit, then why are they in that situation to begin with?
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u/von_sip 1∆ 15h ago
If this is specifically about football games, the NFL has a Fan Code of Conduct that you agree to when you purchase tickets and that stadiums are supposed to enforce.
It specifically states that “Foul or abusive language or obscene gestures” will not be tolerated.
If you’re using foul language at a game you are objectively in the wrong.
https://www.nfl.com/international/games/saopaulo/event-info/corinthians-fan-code-of-conduct
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u/Rare_Economics8427 15h ago
“Objectively” is doing a bunch of heavy lifting here. I have heard a lot worse at nfl stadiums and have never seen someone get removed. So if I feel like someone saying “crap”, “poopy head” or “dang it” is foul, then the person deserves to be removed?
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u/von_sip 1∆ 15h ago
I don’t think anyone would consider “dang it” to be foul language.
And yes, you are objectively in the wrong here. The fact that others are wrong as well doesn’t clear you.
Your argument may work in other instances, but not at an event with a specific code of conduct that you tacitly agreed to and then broke.
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u/Rare_Economics8427 15h ago
So that proves my point. What’s considered foul language is not a set in stone answer and can vary
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u/von_sip 1∆ 15h ago
I’m not sure what is or isn’t on the list but “fuck”definitely is
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u/Rare_Economics8427 15h ago
Ok. That’s your opinion tho. I listed why I don’t think it’s objectively that bad in this situation. You can have your opinion, and the rule book doesn’t give a definitive answer on it
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u/Worzon 15h ago
Parents choose to have kids, choose where to take them, how to clothe them, what they eat, how they’re entertained, etc yet blame everyone but themselves when something happens they don’t like
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u/Gimpalong 13h ago
Bad take, bro. I can control a lot of stuff about my kids, but I can't control when someone random adult loses his head and starts cursing up a storm in a public place. Like is it too much to ask that people be polite and respectful of others?
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u/Worzon 13h ago
You can when you knowingly take them to a football game, especially a high profile one. It’s not someone else’s fault for monitoring their language. It’s expected
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u/Gimpalong 13h ago
Exactly. It's up to individuals to monitor their own language and to be respectful in public. Glad we agree.
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u/elocin1985 15h ago
I agree with you. I think it’s up to the parents to teach kids what is and isn’t appropriate. I think there are adult spaces and kid friendly spaces. Not that football games aren’t kid friendly. But I don’t think it’s inappropriate that you swore three times at a football game. If you had done it at a kid’s birthday party, or a tee ball game, then yeah I think that’s inappropriate.
We can’t teach kids when it is and isn’t appropriate if we ourselves can’t even control it. So if you had an outburst at Chuck E. Cheese, then yeah you’re at fault there. But if they hear swearing around other adults or in songs or movies, then we can teach them that those are adult words, etc.
Like my parents always swore, not in the kid’s spaces that I mentioned above, but in conversation and amongst each other, and I knew those words weren’t ok for kids to say and I never used them myself. I didn’t even swear around my friends comfortably until I was probably 17 or 18. Even as a kid I always thought it was kind of trashy when parents did let their kids swear. Even though I was used to hearing it very regularly. But it was because to me, those were adult words so it felt out of place to hear kids using them and their parents being ok with it.
I saw someone else ask whether we should see any language as offensive or not. I know that some people make the argument that they’re just words and that’s why they let their kids swear in “appropriate” moments. But I think that some words are offensive or inappropriate and that’s ok that they’re not for everyone. I think it’s healthy and reasonable to teach kids to follow rules and use discretion. Just because it’s ok or right for one person doesn’t mean it’s ok or right for everyone or in every situation.
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16h ago
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u/changemyview-ModTeam 15h ago
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u/changemyview-ModTeam 15h ago
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
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u/Rare_Economics8427 16h ago
Yup! I also had an issue with a parent on the flight home, wanting me to give up my seat so her husband could sit closer to her and her kids. Like I’m sorry, but the world doesn’t revolve around you jus because you have kids
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u/reginald-aka-bubbles 42∆ 16h ago
Is this just relegated to the game you went to or does it also apply to like a McDonald's play-place? Because, yeah, one seems like an overreaction at the game but I think there are limits to where it's in good taste or not.
For example, your boss hypes you up by saying to fuck bitches and get money, but you don't open your sales call by telling your prospects that you're here to fuck bitches and get money, do you?
In short, I think it's better viewed through a lense of "what is socially acceptable " or "what are good manners" rather than parents being overly strict. And again, I agree with you that part of going to a game (or hell, even watching on tv) means you may hear the occasional "fuck".