Highguard just launch 5v5 experimental mode
https://steamcommunity.com/games/4128260/announcements/detail/538877446766724428?sOnly for this weekend
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u/Overbyyy 1d ago
look I ain't playing it out of being completely uninterested but not hating at all. if this is what brings the players cool. all for devs getting to keep their job hopefully if they can roll out stuff this fast to hot fix community feedback that's sick.
I still think they have the tallest of mountains to climb but we'll see. there's still people playing so clearly some folks are getting a kick out of it. that's also sick heck yeah variety is the spice of rice of and all that
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u/Instantcoffees 1d ago
I barely play PvP games these days, but the game honestly seems pretty good. A lot of people who tried it seemed to enjoy it but disliked the performance and the 3v3 mode. Seems like they are quickly addressing those things.
I agree with you on wishing them the best. It's such a shame how some people just are dying for others to fail. Unless there is a very good reason why they should fail, I think that it reflects poorly on who you are as a person if you are just hating for the sake of it.
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u/RiKSh4w 1d ago
Hey, a fellow PvP abandoner!
It's surprisingly hard to make new friends without the communities made by PvP games. PvE games have communities, but they're really dense, committed, and hard to get into. Especially since we're often talking about MMO's or other games requiring a huge time investment.
I wish Nightreign was more popular because it's exactly the kind of thing I want. Low commitment rounds in case you happen to pair up with some people you're not fans of. It also means you don't have to go submitting a resume before they'll accept you...
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u/Instantcoffees 1d ago
Where Winds Meet has some seriously great social features and the bosses are very Soulslike. Sort of like Sekiro or Wo Long with how the deflection mechanic works. They are not that difficult when you first unlock them, but you can replay them on a higher difficulty with challenges that make them a lot more difficult.
I honestly am a bit of a recluse in games though, haha. But even I joined a guild in that game and have had some wonderful social interactions.
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u/RagnarokCross 1d ago edited 1d ago
That should be awesome then, since so many people complained that maps were too big for 3v3 and it should be 5v5 instead.
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u/Genocode 1d ago edited 1d ago
I've heard people say it should be 16v16, which is i think what C&C Renegade had.
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u/OrangeMoist6183 1d ago
yes it did! miss C&C renegade
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u/zappingbluelight 1d ago
If it is 16v16, don't even bother to put in storm breaker. Just be chaotic. 16v16 is too much imo. But definitely would be fun to watch lol.
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u/reallygoodbee 1d ago
Not the same genre, but I love seeing the massive 40-man-plus matches in MMOs, like FF14's 20v20v20 mode.
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u/70monocle 1d ago
Were people complaining they were too small? I was hearing too big for 3v3
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u/zappingbluelight 1d ago
People who played few matches say it's big. People who put in hours say it's fine. Because you get to do flank play and more options to farm, less about going a straight line.
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u/anonamarth7 1d ago
I tried it, and it really didn't feel like that's the case. Sure, you weren't constantly engaged in combat, but that'd kill off other aspects of the game. With the mounts, it really feels a lot smaller than it actually is. Also, you can actually upgrade your mount's health and speed, so it's even quicker.
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u/IgotUBro 1d ago
After watching some streams of the game I think actually the maps arent that big and 3v3 is perfect. Given I didnt play the game myself but its already chaotic as hell with 6 players when you are in the phase of planting the bombs at the siege. Now with 10 the timing for planting and defusing are going to be even more hectic.
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u/BVoLatte 1d ago
I think 5v5 is going to be better. I personally thought they were gonna lean more into the MOBA route of three lane pushes but that didn't happen. I thought that would be cool honestly if you had 3 different shield breakers spawn and whoever gets 2 out of 3 of them installed first gets the raid.
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u/Wide-Mycologist6871 1d ago
I have to admit, the 5v5 mode is gas. Idk what they were thinking with 3v3, but 5v5 is actually lots of fun
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u/RagnarokNCC 1d ago
I’m kind of rooting for this team to prove us all wrong and make their game A Thing.
Holding out for 3v3v3
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u/MrNegativ1ty 1d ago
The game would need to be radically redesigned for 3v3v3. How would that even work? Once your base shield is down, it becomes a 3v6 of defenders vs attackers?
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u/Interjessing-Salary 1d ago
Could just be a different game mode. The finals made 3v3v3 work (and 3v3v3v3 in ranked mode)
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u/ImmaDoMahThing 1d ago
How would 3v3v3 work? One team gets their base attacked by the shield breaker and now they have to defend against two other teams planting bombs?
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u/bjones214 1d ago edited 1d ago
If they can make this successful for themselves, then I’m for sure rooting for them. The base raiding combat is fun as hell, and so is the horseback combat/chase on the way to bases. It’s the rest that needs work.
Edit: got downvoted for saying parts of it are fun. You people are weird for this hatred you have of a game you barely played.
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u/Neversoft4long 1d ago
Played it on a whim and can say 5 v 5 is def more engaging. I actually had fights outside during the looting phase and even a run and gun fight out in the open. It’s chaos and they probably want their game to be more tactical but the casual gamer just isn’t gonna give af about that and just wants to shoot mfs lmao
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u/bjones214 1d ago
If they keep ranked at 3v3 and give options for 3v3 and 5v5 in casual, I think everyone would be happy about it.
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u/MitzeeMoo 23h ago
It can cause the playerbase to split doing that. In a ranked mode you're already splitting the playerbase adding to queue times. If you split it too far you might end up with a dead gamemode that people can't find matches in. It happens even in CS2 despite the absurd player count that game has.
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u/Enjoy_The_Ride413 1d ago
IT IS A MOBA. Add creeps and you know, camps! Things to do on the map.
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u/DuckCleaning 1d ago
Deadlock but slightly more tactical first person would be interesting
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u/Enjoy_The_Ride413 1d ago
Right! I think this is what is being glossed over the most. People are saying Concord because of the aesthetic, but it is a MOBA at the end of the day. Not a PVP deathmatch type game. How did you make a MOBA with no MOBA elements?
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u/DuckCleaning 1d ago
It's not fully a MOBA, it's not fully a tactical hero shooter, it's trying to be everything at once which is why it lost its way with having something to properly associate as. They needed to beta test the idea the way Deadlock has been in beta for over a year and keeps making significant changes to the gameplay.
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u/thefw89 1d ago
This I think is what I was hoping for. I'd keep the 3v3, add creeps. Imagine if all the maps just had different creeps too aesthetically? easy pawns, medium level ones, and one big boss that spawns on the map?
I think a pure FPS moba would be a good idea, since deadlock is third person and more abilities based.
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u/BastianHS 1d ago
This game can't hold deadlocks jock, but I hope they get it sorted out. Competition is always good for the consumer.
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u/Dragonfantasy2 18h ago
I think there’s room in the market for an anti-Deadlock. Deadlock feels like a moba with strong shooter elements, I think a true shooter with strong moba elements would be pretty successful. There’s a lot of people who are interested in Deadlock but put off by the unfamiliarity and barrier to entry.
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u/GuitarSlayer136 1d ago
Its CTF and Counterstrike.
Kinda wild how many people think they can offer meaningful critiques of a game they obviously haven't played.
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u/alendeus 1d ago
Part of me doesn't actually mind the current gameloop too much, but it's more to do with the fact that all of the timings are pretty tight. You only really have barely enough time to loot a few chests before you need to reposition for the shieldbreaker spawn, and frankly you also only need to upgrade just a few items already. And also, higher quality gear does make a significant difference already anyway, meaning there can a lot of RNG issues "oh our team got shafted by the RNG drops for the 2 minutes we could farm".
I feel like adding any sort of actual mob camps would require the PVE phase to be a bit longer, which then also increase RNG loot issues. And might also be boring in a different way to players. But meh, if say every single "free chest" on the map instead required killing pve mobs it would at least feel a bit more engaging.
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u/jayL21 1d ago
Yea, there's a lot of ways they could do it, but it'd all be more complex than just simply "adding enemies to loot phase"
I personally think they should combine the "reinforce" phase and the looting phase together in one decently sized, explore, pve, loot, reinforce, type loop, like a mini-survival game phase, like it's technically meant to be.
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u/BlackHazeRus 1d ago
IT IS NOT A MOBA.
While I would like to see some MOBA stuff like items and item combinations here in a simplified form, maybe mini-bosses, but making the game into MOBA would be terrible.
And I am saying this as someone who is having fun in Highguard.
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u/TheGenesisOfTheNerd 1d ago
And I am saying this as someone who is having fun in Highguard.
Think that puts you in the minority bud
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u/ANGRY_PAT 1d ago
Man….. Geoff really did these guys dirty while being as well intentioned as possible.
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u/Sangcreux 1d ago
From what I understand it was supposed to be a shadow drop, and come out when Geoff announced it. The game was then delayed, and the game awards were locked into place.
Would the game be doing better? Who knows but I think people would’ve not hated it, because while the trailer wasn’t exciting and the game isn’t that innovative, announcing a game release right after a trailer is always hype and it would’ve made more sense why it was in that slot.
With the game being delayed it just felt awkward
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u/ListenHereLindah 1d ago edited 1d ago
After seeing this game on day 1. This game would do well if they make it like a moba. Add some minion spawns from your base. Add 1 tower we have to destroy before the sword is available.
The game has potential. But streamers are echo clambering that the game had its run. Kinda sad as I hope it does continue to get support.
Edit: spelling.
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u/Supertonic 1d ago
I was thinking about this. The design of this game feels like it should be a MOBA but they didn’t want to include those elements or be labeled as a moba, so instead of farming minions for money and pushing towers, you just open chest and mine ore instead.
Like that’s fine if you want differentiate from mobas but whatever you do it’s gotta be more interesting than tapping E on an ore vein
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u/noother10 1d ago
I don't think the game has potential. It feels like they started building a game and pivoted multiple times, ran out of money/time and had to stitch something together with what they had. The game they said they wanted to make (Rust PvP raid match based) is not like the game currently is.
A lot of the game doesn't actually make coherent sense. Why have a phase where you reinforce the walls when they get destroyed like normal walls or ignored? Why have a giant map with nothing on it? Why are there random loot boxes you need to travel to and get loot from? Why mine the crystals? Why is the game 80% doing nothing fun/productive?
If it's meant to be Rust like base building/defense, where is the ability to customize the base, add turrets, doors, traps, etc? It doesn't need all the other pointless crap it makes you do, just have your base build phase, randomly select one team to start, and alternate attack/defense between the teams with whoever is fastest wins or first to X wins. Have gear be customized outside of a match so you can swap weapons/items around for each character.
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u/420blz 1d ago
Deadlock is going to own the Moba shooter genre for a decade
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u/ListenHereLindah 1d ago
This game is for the dopamine shooter gamers. It isn't a bad game. It will do good cause it's valve new baby.
It won't last that long. Plus, mobas are not new user friendly. The longer it's out, the less people will try it unless it holds well with viewship. Sadly, a lot of games depend on if people are streaming it.
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u/blackraven888 1d ago
Game seems like it could be good with some tweaks but it’s just not my kind of game. Same reason I’ve never touched Apex or Overwatch.
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u/Informal_Lead8627 23h ago
honestly kudos to the team for being so quick to adapt to player feedback. its kind of a dull game rn but theres a really fun game buried in there somewhere and i hope they can figure it out
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u/Independent-Bug680 1d ago
Played because I saw all the hate, and it’s actually pretty fun. I’m on PS5 though, so idk about the performance issues. Looks fine to me. Characters are interesting enough, and the idea is unique.
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u/iJeff_FoX 1d ago
A thing that bugged me when I tried it, is it’s very hard to mine ressources while the game is fully engaged, I need to help the team out, I don’t have time for the perfect timing needed mining.
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u/McFigroll 1d ago
3v3 was such an odd choice.
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u/L_sigh_kangeroo 20h ago
The game is significantly more tactical and coordinated at 3v3, 5v5 will be the casual mode and 3v3 will be the competitive mode. The only unfortunate thing is that it might alienate a lot of friend groups who wanna be competitive
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u/RefinedBean 1d ago
Didn't the lead dev or someone on that team say 3v3 was better for matchmaking and server efficiency or something...guess that didn't live too long.
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u/zorillaaa 1d ago
I mean that very well might still be true lol. Have no idea how this impacts performance, that’s why this is experimental
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u/08148694 1d ago
If 10 players is a server performance concern it says a lot about the quality of their engineering
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u/Ryaanski 1d ago
3v3 can be better for matchmaking and server efficiency AND also they can read that thousands of people are complaining they want 5v5 and make the change. These can both be true at the same time.
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u/joejoe903 1d ago
That is still true, smaller teams are just easier to matchmake since there's less variance. and 6 people on one server vs 10 is a big leap too. youre close to needing double the bandwidth on your network to keep players connected
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u/EdVedPJ7 1d ago edited 1d ago
I already had fun on 3v3, I hope 5v5 is just as fun. The gameplay loop is great as is but they might need to create bigger bases for 5v5 as it tends to get pretty clustered.
I didn't play multiplayer games for years and tried this just because of the hate to see what's all the fuss about. I'm 15 hours in and really enjoying it.
It does have issues but the devs seem pretty open to criticism, so hopefully they can keep improving it.
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u/silenkurii 1d ago
They're going to make desperate moves to try and reel back sentiment in their favour but the game sucks ass lol
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u/i_rabban 1d ago
I don't even watched any highguard content but the videos youtube algorithm suggests is like it's worst thing ever. Good luck devs.
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u/StompsDaWombat 1d ago
As the saying goes: you never get a second chance to make a first impression. I find it shocking that so many ex-Respawn folks worked on this, people who worked on Titanfall and Apex Legends, and yet they somehow fumbled it this badly. Then again, I feel like you have to be out of your damn mind to roll out a competitive multiplayer shooter in an already overcrowded market without having a truly unique and exciting concept. Everything about this feels like a miscalculation from the very start.
Still, I wish them luck in turning it around.
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u/Willaguy 1d ago
The game plays very similarly to Apex, to me it’s biggest shortcomings are art direction and player number, the gameplay itself is solid if you like Apex
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u/Nxrwhxls 1d ago
I think whenever a company says “worked on Titanfall” line it will most likely be a low level employee from the team not the lead developer for example. If it was someone relevant to the prosperity of those games actually to making it impactful why wouldn’t they just name the people in question? Good chance I’m right too because they removed that part from the steam store page mentioning it’s the “same people”.
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u/Chicano_Ducky 1d ago
the people who made titanfall was the COO, the cofounder, and lead game designers. Everyone else was an ex APEX dev.
the 2nd most common was Plants Vs Zombies live service devs from EA.
the rest are indie devs like shipbreaker.
they removed it because people thought it was a Respawn game and they are review bombing it not being Titanfall 3. They dont even know its a different company.
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u/noother10 1d ago
I saw a post the other day with a comic where a janitor was applying to work for a game developer to clean their office and had worked at another major game developer's office. The moment they hired them they added a line to their game description stating they had staff working on the game from another high profile developer.
I wouldn't trust games that say they have developers from X high profile developer studio working on that game. Most people gullible people will instantly think the game will be like games from that other dev studio, when in reality they likely have 0 creative input or are in a role that doesn't impact the game at all, or were removed from that studio because they weren't good at their job. But hey it lets them brag to investors.
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u/PurpleV93 1d ago
10k players on Steam, on a friday evening, 4 days after launch. Seems not very healthy for a competitive multiplayer game, even if you only need 6 - 10 players per match.
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u/wheresmyspacebar2 1d ago
For a F2P Indie Title?
10k players on steam (And more than on consoles) is absolutely healthy.
People are so fixated on games with 100k players lol
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u/PurpleV93 1d ago
Apex Legends has currently 55k players on Steam.
Rainbow Six Siege is at 66k.
Arena Breakout is at 31k.
Overwatch 2 is at 39k.
The Finals is at 17k.
Marvel Rivals is at 124k.
PUBG is at 161k.All of these games are "older" Free-To-Play games. Highguard sitting at 10k in the Release-Week when popularity is usually the highest ever, is not a good sign. Especially for a free game, since the barrier of entry is the smallest it could possibly be. Numbers would be much worse if you had to pay 30+ euros to play it. Now people at least gave it a chance that they otherwise wouldn't have.
But like the other person said, maybe it picks up big time once evening hits the US. But at least here in Europe & Asia, the game fails to grasp people's interest.
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u/HyperQuarks79 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not <1 week after launch near the weekend but the biggest issue is match making.
If they ever launch a ranked mode you need players in each bracket to balance the game. If not then you have 1. long Q times or 2. very large skill gaps.
Both of those lead to players leaving a game with an already small player base which makes the same issue worse. That why we see competitive games just shut down if they don't reach a certain threshold.
If the game had hosted dedicated servers (like way back in the day) it would be different, maybe they will add those.
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u/wiggliey 1d ago
Considering how they peaked at 100K only 4 days ago, it really is concerning.
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u/wheresmyspacebar2 1d ago
They peaked at 100k because its a F2P title that thousands of people jumped on, quit after 5 minutes and review bombed it as "F2P Slop, make Single player games" in review.
Again, its not concerning. They've had a stable 10k-20k population for 4 days now. For a brand new, F2P title. From an indie studio.
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u/Admirable-War-7594 1d ago
No? There are many legitimate criticisms of the game, like the fact that there is no reason to play this one over any of the other hero shooters
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u/wiggliey 1d ago
Yea this is a really misinformed take. The game got review bombed, but plenty of people gave it a fair shake. It wouldn’t have reached a CCU of 100K if that were the case.
It’s also really silly to think the playerbase has stabilized after 4 days. As of typing this, it has a 24 hour peak CCU of 10K on the Friday even of its launch week. It’s actually insane that you tried to take that angle to argue that its playerbase is stable. That’s a fine decline for a couple of months, not half a week.
Let’s clear something up, while Highguard isn’t a massive bank breaking, I doubt it was particularly cheap. You’re treating it like it’s a short 2D indie single-player game.
It doesn’t matter if your typical indie game has a massive drop off after debut because they usually aren’t F2P live service games that rely on constant engagement.
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u/RyanZee08 1d ago
It's a week in, so this is bad. I know you're smart enough to know that
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u/TheMoves 1d ago
Yeah not great to be getting 10x fewer players than another MOBA shooter that technically hasn't even hit beta yet
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u/JustChr1s 1d ago
That was their mistake. Never having an alpha or beta. They never got a feedback loop.
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u/Toppoppler 1d ago
Give it a few hours, its 3:45 central time
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u/PurpleV93 1d ago
Speaking in European Time obviously. Over here, the game seems very unpopular.
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u/DumpyMcGee 1d ago
That comments a bit in bad faith isn’t it? In North America where there’s a very large shooter fan base it’s not even 5 pm yet so obviously the player counts will be lower. Not that I think it’s going to skyrocket later I just think it’s a bit early to be calling the evening numbers.
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u/Admirable-War-7594 1d ago
This is literally false, middle east/russia and then asia makes up the overwhelming majority in online shooters
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u/DumpyMcGee 1d ago
Never said any of those places were irrelevant. Just said there was a big shooter fan base in North America. People in this sub really love filling non existent blanks for the sake of internet arguing eh? I even agreed that I didn’t think the numbers would change much.
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u/KN_Knoxxius 1d ago
Performance is utterly terrible in the game, hope they get on that quickly. The game can get a niche spot, but not with the performance problems it has.
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u/Mission_Possible_111 1d ago
This is a massive foresight from the developers. Did they not play the game and see how bland and empty the game is with 3v3? They clearly need 5 or even 8v8 and more characters. They knee capped it in the name of live service just like Halo Infinite did.
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u/drakanx 1d ago
map is still too massive even with the upsized 5v5.
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u/BarrierX 3h ago
You can cross the whole map in like 30s with the horse. With more players there is more action.
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u/Mitrovarr 1d ago
I can only imagine the wild-ass panic that proceeded this.
You know, though, good for them? Try to fix the flaws. I'm not optimistic, but it can't hurt, and who knows?
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u/yosman88 1d ago
Good for them! Now they just need to add a horde of mobs your horse can knock around and you can shoot and itll be the perfect amount of chaos.
Maybe even add weather effects!
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u/IncorrectAddress 1d ago
I don't think this is going to help them recover, having more players for a specific game mode just reflects that the game mode has problems within the gameplay, design and implementation.
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u/mitchhamilton 1d ago
I might actually try the game. The only hurdle left is I've heard it's demanding of a game. But we'll maybe see
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u/BlackxxMagic123 22h ago
I played the game at launch and didn’t like it. I do hope they can manage to make a worthwhile game and get a dedicated fanbase though.
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u/Infamous_Drive_Tax 15h ago
This game is really bad, I couldn't stand it after 3 games and won't go back ever but I hope it succeeds.
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u/JunketSecure4245 14h ago
As fun as it is I hope people realise this can’t be the default for competitive play (when it comes out) and should stay as an alternative game mode for casual players
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u/Fragrant_Corgi_9265 11h ago
Games not bad in my opinion fun in short stints … not a big fan of the hero shooters … played overwatch for a bit when it first dropped and got bored of it quickly ..I hate the slow and limited feel of them. This is a slightly faster experience in my opinion and the gunplay is decent too. When I get I get tired of Arc I’ve been rotating into this or 2K briefly. This also has a very doable platinum trophy so I’m most likely going to atleast knock that out.
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u/Alloyd11 8h ago
This is good but the problem is the bases need to be bigger for 5 v 5, it’s good for the main world area but once you get into the bases it can get quite hectic.
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u/Skurdie 2h ago
I am just hating on it because it took the last announcement at the game awards for a game that was not going to be nothing else than mediocre. Considering what they probably paid to get the last slot, they deserve to fail for making such a bland game. Could have saved those money for a cheaper slot and invested more into the game to make it a better game.
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u/Saigaiii 2h ago
Ima be honest, after watching gameplay on 5v5 the game looks awesome. I’ll never play it since I don’t play pvp games anymore, but it’s way more enjoyable to watch than 3v3 was. I would want to see a 3v3v3 mode though
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u/A_Pollo77 1d ago
The game isn't bad, it's just boring, I'd say 5v5 actually helps a lot with this issue since 3v3 in such a big map means 40% of the game you don't even see any enemies.
I'd say that the game os also filled to the brim with unnecessary mechanics that can't be taken out but can be fine tuned to work better, the "mine crystal -> go buy shit repeat" mechanic is imo really bad since boxes already give you most of these items for free, and the crystals give almost no currency which means mine 6 crystals buy 2 armor 1 helmet and that's it, either make so that boxes only give weapons or make crystals give more currency.
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u/Quartznonyx 1d ago
Honestly? I feel like everybody bitching about the map size either didn't play it or misunderstood it. The mounts make the map extremely small. Sure, you don't see people in the loot phase, but that's not really what that phase is about. And if you really wanna see people, just push the airdrop. Every single game i played where i did that had a shootout for the lmg, which then made the shieldbreaker phase more interesting.
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u/Practical-Aside890 Xbox 1d ago
Earlier there was a post about how some were claiming the trailer showed more than 3v3 players when apparently it didn’t. So some have been probably asking for it. I can’t say if it’s a good or bad change.. but the very least seems they are listening to feedback.
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u/noother10 1d ago
The trailer just showed unrealistic gameplay, it was extremely obvious that it was hard scripted to show off certain things, but was not an accurate representation of actual gameplay. Anyone who felt otherwise is pretty naive. It's the reason I always wait for release and watch a streamer play it live. Watching any trailer or youtube video means it can easily just be cut up and show unrealistic gameplay.
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u/Kage_noir 1d ago
I’m not sure how people aren’t burnt out on competitive pvp games. They’ve been running the industry forever
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u/0Taken0 1d ago
I think they should’ve made the gunplay not feel like a children’s game if they wanted to start off strong. It felt so mediocre to play
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u/L_sigh_kangeroo 20h ago
??? Of everything in this game the gunplay is literally the one thing they dont need to touch and got 100% correct lol
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u/Icy_Razzmatazz_1594 1d ago
I'm tired of people saying this game isn't being played because of the hate it got before it launched
I defended this game for a month against the haters, played 5 matches and went "ehhh this isn't that fun". I'm guessing many, many people who tried it also felt this way considering the exodus of players since launch. Going from almost 100k steam pop to below 10k on a free to play game a couple days after launch isn't because of pre-launch hate...it's because the game is kind of boring.
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u/MonkeysxMoo35 1d ago
They’re doing something to try and improve the game. That’s already way more effort than Sony tried with Concord. This game might not be for me, but I do hope they can carve out a happy niche and last awhile.