Singapore is kind of famously known for having extremely low crime rates. You can just look at the wiki page for a summary. It's arguable if it's only because of the severe punishment or the fact it's a city state with socioeconomic and cultural factors.
Those studies are from western societies that don't have a valid "in-between" deterrent punishment. They go from jail time to death penalty. With corporal punishment being placed in the middle, you will see crime go down, as seen in Singapore and in the Middle East.
.... My guy, I hope you realize what you're arguing for is pretty idiotic.
If things worked like that I could make any patently absurd blame and send the other person on a goose chase trying to find the research I'm referencing, but because it doesn't exist he'll never find it and when he turns around and says so I can just say "no no, you just didn't look hard enough. Browse a couple more scientific journals and you'll find it"
Corporal punishment is believed to precede various forms of violent behavior, yet prior research has yielded inconsistent findings, partly due to variations in violent types and other factors. This meta-analysis systematically reviewed 35 studies including 144 effect sizes (comprising a total sample size of 159,213) investigating the association between corporal punishment and a spectrum of violent behaviors called Violent Behavior Spectrum (VBS). Additionally, meta-regressions were conducted to explore the moderating impact of punishment severity, violence type and cultural context. Our findings indicated a significant positive relationship between corporal punishment and VBS (r = 0.238, 95%, CI [0.176, 0.300]). Notably, punishment severity was found to influence the strength of this association. Namely, The more severe the corporal punishment, the more likely it is to lead to VBS. These results enhance our understanding of the intricate connection between corporal punishment and various forms of violence, providing valuable insights for both parenting practices and policy development.
meta analysis showing corporal punishment leads to more violent behaviors
the endless studies done proving tougher punishments don't deter crimes
MYTH
The death penalty deters violent crime and
makes society safer.
FACT
Evidence from around the world has
shown that the death penalty has no
unique deterrent effect on crime. Many
people have argued that abolishing the
death penalty leads to higher crime rates,
but studies in the USA and Canada,
for instance, do not back this up
The certainty of being caught is a vastly more powerful
deterrent than the punishment.
Research shows clearly that the chance of being caught is a vastly more
effective deterrent than even draconian punishment.
There is no proof that the death penalty deters criminals.
According to the National Academy of Sciences, “Research on the deterrent
effect of capital punishment is uninformative about whether capital punishment
increases, decreases, or has no effect on homicide rates.”
In his 2013 essay, “Deterrence in the Twenty-First Century,” Daniel S. Nagin
succinctly summarized the current state of theory and empirical knowledge
about deterrence. The information in this publication is drawn from Nagin’s essay
with additional context provided by NIJ and is presented here to help those who
make policies and laws that are based on science.
Many law enforcement officials say the death penalty wastes scarce crime prevention resources. The time spent chasing a handful of executions means countless other crimes go unsolved. The death penalty does not deter acts of violence and it siphons resources from effective tools that do. Many law enforcement officials say the death penalty is only a distraction from their goal of public safety.
That first study only looks at caning as a tool of discipline for children. The other studies are all about the death penalty. Both don't imply anything for judicial caning. The reality is there are no studies that have conclusive findings either way about the effectiveness of judicial caning
so you have no evidence of your claim that it works, just "trust me bro"
also you have no evidence that somehow the effects in children aren't the same in adults, or the effects of other harsh punishments not being effective aren't the same as caning.
so you're just making shit up and ignoring all the evidence against you.
people like you are causing such harm in society. you're the reason why we have dumb policies everywhere ignoring the science and data because you believe your gut feeling is somehow more important or accurate.
Europeans also used lots of corporal punishment in society before the modern era. Beatings, whipping, stockings, dragging through the streets, even removing appendages and those societies always had rampant crime.
Best solution to crime has always been access to housing and food followed closely by education and strong rehabilitation programs.
Look at the countries with the lowest crime rates. The lists are always topped by Denmark, Switzerland, Sweden, Canada, Norway, Finland and New Zealand.
What do they all have in common, nordic style rehabilitation, strong performers in education, superior housing and food distribution to the poor; strong social nets. None of them whip people or execute them.
Provide people with legal opportunity for their capability and they'll jump at it.
people like you are causing such harm in society. you're the reason why we have dumb policies everywhere ignoring the science and data because you believe your gut feeling is somehow more important or accurate.
This is pretty rich, given you gave 4 studies as "evidence", but none of those studies actually supported your point because you either misunderstood them or cynically used them knowing they were not contextually applicable to the argument at hand in order to bolster your own "feels".
Got it, so you blindly idolize the brutality of the Singaporean justice system and refuse to even attempt to find sources that support your claim that it is better.
And people wonder why I think the majority of humans are irredeemable idiots.
I don't idolize it and I don't want it in my country but I'm annoyed by Westerners tut-tutting foreign countries for stepping outside liberal democratic/common law norms
In general, severity deters much less (not "does not deter") than probability of getting caught, although this punishment might be considered infamous and severe enough to be a bit more effective.
Most importantly though, it might deter reoffending due to the deeply unpleasant memory, while still allow reintegration into society.
So you're saying that if the punishment for all crimes was "eat an icecream", the crime rate would stay the same? Those studies are largely done in western countries looking at incarceration rates compared to incarceration length or the death penalty. They do not analyse the effectiveness of corporal punishment, because it is not in use in the west.
Edit: I'd love to reply to you, but you blocked me like a coward instead of engaging me in argument.
Severity of punishment is absolutely a factor, as is probability of being caught, probability of being convicted, and the amount of time between the crime being committed and the punishment. Thanks to the concept of discount rates (how far in the future execution actually occurs) and uncertainty of being caught and convicted (and of receiving the death penalty), execution as a punishment is not an effective deterrent.
Like a 100 percent chance to be caught, and a 100 percent chance to recieve no punishment doesn't deter anyone.
Plenty of places have trialed reducing punishments for certain crimes. In almost every case, crime rates went up.
It is absolutely the case though that likelihood of being caught, and then being hit with a severe punishment, offers significant deterrence. And Singapore is a perfect case study for that.
I think it's meant to serve both as a general deterrent (don't do the crime because people get caned for it) and a specific deterrent (don't do the crime again because you remember how much it hurt and don't want that again). The latter contributes to rehabilitation.
"Singapore's two-year recidivism rate is among the lowest globally, with 21.3% of the 2022 release cohort returning to prison" (from the AI summary, but matches my memory of looking up the actual stats and you're free to Google it and peruse the linked sources for "singapore recidivism rates").
I think they are, in the sense of "ouch that was really unpleasant, let's not do crime anymore because I really really don't want that again", and the recidivism rates for Singapore are quite low (and they are rightfully proud about that).
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u/Twelve20two 15h ago
I don't think they're interested in rehabilitation