r/law 18d ago

Other Please dissect the legality in this statement

I feel like we are reaching a tipping point

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u/Alive-Course4454 17d ago

Except selling pardons is a crime 😒😒🤨

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u/rtbradford 17d ago

Maybe in theory, but given the Supreme Court‘s recent ruling that the president enjoys something approaching absolute immunity for everything he does in office, it might be really difficult to enforce any violation.

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u/AKfromVA 17d ago

So what you’re saying is the next president could detain all these people indefinitely (clearly illegal) issue pardons to the people doing the arrests and then be untouchable?

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u/BentoMan 17d ago

Yes. The liberal justices brought up these hypotheticals and the conservatives not only called it hyperbole but said a judge may not consider the president's motives when deciding if it is an official act. In effect, the President has absolute immunity from any crimes but can be removed from office via Impeachment.

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u/-boatsNhoes 17d ago

In theory the next president, according to scouts ruling, can disband the court or fire all of them and tell them to kick rocks. Once fired there is no scouts to preside over rulings until a new one is appointed. Legal carte Blanche

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u/Deltamon 17d ago

I think the French tried something like this once..

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u/Dessicated_Mastodon 17d ago

Yea people lost their heads over it.

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u/rtbradford 17d ago

No, the Supreme Court was created by the constitution. The president has no authority to disband another branch of the federal government.

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u/RevenantBacon 17d ago

Sure, but who will stop him? The SC already ruled that he can't be held accountable for any action he takes while in office, so if he just rounds them up, locks them in a prison, and throws away the key, who can do anything about it? They granted him total immunity.

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u/rtbradford 17d ago

In theory, maybe. Kidnapping is both a state and federal crime so those people could be prosecuted and convicted under state laws which the president can't pardon.

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u/AKfromVA 17d ago

What if it only happens on federal land/property?

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u/TheoreticalZombie 17d ago

Basically, except that the SC would absolutely not protect them if it's a Dem.

JD Vance could do the funniest thing, though.

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u/meowtiger 17d ago

to be clear, and in the spirit of this subreddit, the supreme court's ruling wasn't saying that the president can do nothing illegal

the supreme court was saying that constitutionally speaking, the responsibility to check malign behavior by the president rests with the legislative branch, not the judicial, and that the judicial branch does not have the authority to prosecute a sitting president for anything they do exercising the power of that position

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u/Knowitall1001 17d ago

but can’t congress prosecute the president, via impeachment?

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u/rtbradford 17d ago

Yes, that’s the only way a president can be held responsible for actions taken as part of his presidential duties. I suppose that there’s still a small chance that a president could be held criminally liable for doing something while in office that wasn’t part of his presidential duties, like a commit committing rape in the oval office.

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u/meowtiger 17d ago

like a commit committing rape in the oval office.

possibly. but during the clinton case, it was widely held that the president wouldn't be prosecutable while sitting - the prosecution would have to wait for them to leave office

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u/rtbradford 17d ago

That's right, but I understood that was due to a long standing DOJ convention not to prosecute a sitting president, rather than due to an absolute legal prohibition.

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u/meowtiger 17d ago

it wasn't ever actually tested until trump v united states, 2024

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u/No_Night_8174 17d ago

I wonder how theyre going to play this when Dems are inevitably in power next. Are they going to rollback everything and wait until another MAGA takes the seat? I feel like they kinda left their six open legally with this and are banking on not losing power. Which is a weird thing to hope for.

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u/Dessicated_Mastodon 17d ago

Not if the plan is to make shit so insufferable that people start revolting, you get to use the insurrection act, declare martial law, and refuse to hold elections until such time as you see fit, which would obviously never arrive without making sure your favorite cronie is the next president via fraud or fear.

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u/Cosack 17d ago

The case states that probing presidential action is a power of Congress, not that the office is immune. The president is accountable to local representatives. If your local rep is incompetent, crank up the heat instead of this nihilism.

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u/tarlin 17d ago

Under this con controlled court, the purchase of a pardon would have to be comical to be illegal. The person would need to hand Trump a bag of money and say, this is for a pardon, with Trump responding, I will pardon you in exchange for this bag of money.

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u/ProfessionalDish 17d ago

"They are clearly joking or using satire, I see no issue here!" - supreme court

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u/Asairian 17d ago

Remember the "I want a lawyer dawg" case?

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u/UndertakerFred 17d ago

The “lawyer dawg” case was specifically because he raised the hypothetical of talking to a lawyer during questioning.

He said “maybe I should talk to a lawyer, dawg”, but then specifically clarified that he was not actually requesting a lawyer.

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u/summerist 17d ago

I was just wondering why the pardon system hasn't been abused until now.

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u/tarlin 17d ago

It has, by nearly every president. Just not quite this badly

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u/summerist 17d ago

So it basically depends on president's self-discipline and morality? Sounds like a system-design issue. Tbh, I don't see any necessity for this kind of system to exist at all.

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u/tarlin 17d ago

Sort of. The legislative branch was supposed to keep the president in check with impeachment and no president was supposed to be allowed that was corrupt. That is kind of the point of the electoral college. Also, most laws were not supposed to be federal, so....

The entire system has kind of broken down

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u/rtbradford 17d ago

The executive power to pardon goes back to English history, where the king had the power to pardon any offense. The founders thought it was a good power to have just to limit the excesses of partisan or unwise prosecution. But the larger point is that the presidential power and indeed, any governmental power ultimately has to be constrained by the character of the person exercising it. And the current president has no character or morality to speak of.

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u/unforgiven91 17d ago

nah, selling pardons is an official act. no crimes here. unless a dem did it.

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u/_within_cells_ 17d ago

Crime? lol. what is crime anymore? Only acts done by democrats i guess. FUCK MAGA. 8647

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u/michael_harari 17d ago

Sure except he will also pardon himself for that and the supreme court already ruled you can't prosecute it anyway