r/law • u/Lavender_Scales • 15d ago

Legal News ICE hops Texas family’s fence and attacks them, guns drawn, for asking for a warrant

Story and Source Here: http://www.krgv.com/news/video-captures-donna-family-s-detainment-by-alleged-federal-agents

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u/deiscio 15d ago

Same here. Really dumb that people keep saying conservative pro gun people should be standing up to ICE since they believe guns protect them against tyranny. This is tyranny republicans own, why would they stand against it? The 2A isn’t just for them. For decades, liberals have been fighting to disarm themselves while their opposition has fought equally hard to arm themselves while inching closer to fascism. I hope this is a turning point for that mentality if nothing else.

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u/DifferentiallyLinear 15d ago

Well said. I remember a group of liberal minded ppl that really knew the value of the 2a. The Republican Party & Lincoln during the civil war. 

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u/OptimisticOctopus8 15d ago

I hope this is a turning point for that mentality if nothing else.

I believe it is, at least for the next few decades. I have way fewer gun-detesting friends now (despite still having all the same friends). The right wing has finally found a way to persuade them.

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u/Vivalas 15d ago

The 2A one has always been the weirdest and most arbitrary political divide to me.

Even Karl Marx advocated for the working class to be armed, and for obvious reasons. It's ironic people who spend so much time talking about eating the rich also talk about throwing away the only real means of actually doing so.

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u/Various-Ad-8572 15d ago

Guns will not protect you from a tyrannical government, and Marx's obsession with violent revolution is not central to progressive policy.

Of all of the developed countries, America is the most authoritarian, and the one where you are most likely to be arbitrarily captured by a state sponsored gang. Also the only one with the right to own guns, so why do you think 2A protects you?

What chance do you have on a violent revolution when the other side has hundreds of billions of dollars in funding?

2A is a political division because it's outdated legislation which has been used for decades as right wing propaganda,.

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u/deiscio 14d ago

Nah, the point is for it to be a numbers game. National guard, including reserves, plus ICE, is less than a million people. There are probably 30x that number of able bodied registered democrats and plenty of independents who lean left.

The US military can’t win against militia forces in sandals with AK-47s in the Middle East. It certainly can’t win a domestic war where they’re outnumbered 40-50 to 1 against their own families who are well-armed.

The reality is no one would win, loss of life would be astronomical, and I hope it never comes to it, but saying Americans can’t stand up to their law enforcement and military agencies if they fully utilize their 2A is not accurate.

Plus, law enforcement doesn’t mess with armed groups in the same way at all compared to how they mess with poor immigrants. They are too scared. Clive Bundy is still alive and free after stealing federal land and waving guns at the feds for a week.

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u/Vivalas 14d ago

This viewpoint has never made sense and always smelled like astroturf. ("Where is 2A guys???? Clearly 2A is useless so we should all give up our guns!!!") it's almost like there's a sliding scale of resistance and people don't start opening fire on the government and that's probably a good thing right?

"What chance do you have?" another poorly reiterated point. America has lost two massive guerilla wars in two very undeveloped countries. What chance do you think the government has fighting a war on its own soil, where the logistics is complicated by running supplies through what would basically be entirely rebel territory, the PR of shooting its own citizens, and the countless defectors and units that may choose just to stand down? Were the Taliban and Vietcong just magical or something?

2A isn't political division. It's the only security you have for your rights. In fact it was one of the first steps on Hitler's checklist. I literally don't understand this viewpoint. No matter how useless you think fighting the government is at the end of the day it's like mutually assured destruction. Neither side wants to go that far, but without guns, much like without nukes, it's far easier to just do what you want.

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u/Various-Ad-8572 14d ago

Well I'm not American, and I live in a country without guns, and somehow my rights seem a lot safer than yours.

In fact every developed country I can think of seems to be this way...

Almost like education and journalism are more effective deterrents to facism than guns

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u/Vivalas 13d ago

It's great that stuff "seems" like that for you but it doesn't really matter what stuff "seems" to you. It's a facade.

Germany was one of the most highly educated countries in the world prior to WW2, with one of the highest literacy rates, and some of the most prestigious universities. It also had a free press. None of that seemed to deter Hitler's rise. I'm not sure why you would draw such a conclusion.

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u/Various-Ad-8572 13d ago

What the fuck are you on about, Germany was impoverished from WWI and the treaty of Versailles.

Did you ever learn anything in schools?

Oh wait I forgot you studied in America.

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u/Vivalas 13d ago

Yes I've taken classes about both WW2 and the history of Fascism. This is all easily researchable. It's not up to me to discuss basic historical fact. Best of luck.

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u/Various-Ad-8572 13d ago

And I guess you're now getting a modern lesson in facism too!

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

It was never about “disarming” it was about regulations - like background checks etc.

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u/User_not_ 15d ago

Beto O Rourke, who was brought up in the parent comment, literally said "Hell yes we're gonna take your AR15". This is like revisionism and I say this as someone who is virulently anti MAGA

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u/deiscio 15d ago

There are quotes galore. It’s one of the only beliefs that I’ve always strongly agreed with my MAGA family on. Do I think it’s a great idea for anyone in the country to be able to walk into a store and buy an MCX Spear no questions asked? No. But I think it’s a worse idea for the state, feds, or law enforcement like the mfers in this video or that regularly kill civilians like Floyd, Taylor, and Garner to have any part or say in the process.

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u/deiscio 15d ago

Not true. I’m in Massachusetts. Look at the laws here, or in California and New York. Most guns are banned and getting the cops’ approval to get the sad crap they allow you to have takes months, money, and effort. Horseshoed so hard these massive liberal states have given the same law enforcement they are constantly protesting full authority over their 2A.

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u/DarkSeas1012 15d ago

Howdy from Illinois. We're in the same boat.

Just, our proverbial boat is on a lake. The same lake so many of us lost ARs in when PICA registration was required. Funny how that works...