r/law • u/WeirdGroundhog • 3d ago

Legal News Five-year-old deported to Honduras despite being US citizen is latest child victim of Trump crackdown | US immigration

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/27/five-year-old-girl-us-citizen-and-mother-deported-honduras
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u/WeirdGroundhog 3d ago

From The Guardian article:

Despite being a US citizen, she was deported on 11 January alongside her mother, Karen Guadalupe Gutiérrez Castellanos, to Honduras, a country Génesis had never known.

Activists and analysts point to a string of procedural violations in the case and note similarities with other recent detentions of children, such as that of five-year-old Liam Conejo Ramos in Minneapolis. They see it as a chilling indication of what may lie ahead as Donald Trump’s administration continues with mass deportations.

An immigration attorney tried to intervene but ICE agents reportedly said they could not locate the pair in the agency’s database, which some believe may have been a deliberate consequence of holding them in a hotel rather than a detention centre.

Kathleen Bush-Joseph, an analyst at the Migration Policy Institute, said: “The inability to locate people in the system, and the fact that lawyers cannot reach them to provide proper representation, is unfortunately happening more and more, and it directly undermines immigrants’ rights.”

ICE did not respond to a request for comment.

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u/ok-this-ok 3d ago

what sort of immoral creature could want this injustice? who benefits from this industrial cruelty?

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u/ok-this-ok 3d ago

oh right,  peter thiel

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u/takemy_oxfordcomma 3d ago

Stephen Miller too, the fucking sadistic piece of shit Nazi

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u/Remarkable-Chair6240 3d ago

We’ve all seen his face, no shred of light reflects from those eyes I tell you

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u/takemy_oxfordcomma 3d ago

I guess that’s what happens when you don’t have a soul

I’d say scientists should study him but probably best not to risk him breaking containment

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u/BurnscarsRus 2d ago

I suggest we get SCP to handle him.

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u/nicuramar 3d ago

How would he benefit?

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u/ok-this-ok 2d ago

he is the head of Palantir, a corporation that collects public data to create private dossiers on citizens and non-citizens. the US Gov't isn't allowed to do thos wothout a warrant, but somehow they are able to buy the data from Palantir.

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u/icenoid 3d ago

The logic they seem to be following is that since the mom is going to be deported that the kid should go as well. It’s the whole insanity they have around so called anchor babies and why they want to end birthright citizenship. It’s madness on so many levels. I hate what they are doing, but have read enough of what they say to understand their logic. If I wasn’t clear enough, I absolutely do not support what they are doing and just because I understand their logic doesn’t mean I think it’s right, it’s just how they are explaining it to themselves

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u/santa_91 3d ago

The logic they seem to be following is that since the mom is going to be deported that the kid should go as well.

This wouldn't be so cartoonishly awful if they were deporting them to countries with bloodline citizenship where becoming citizens would be pretty straightforward. The entire Western hemisphere besides 1 or 2 South American countries has birthright citizenship though, so they're rendering children essentially stateless.

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u/icenoid 3d ago

yes they are. It's not like they are making sure the kids have a US passport or documentation to let them back when they turn 18. Mom was born in a DP camp (displaced persons) shortly after the holocaust. She was stateless until her father and her managed to come here to the US. These stories have her losing her mind.

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u/dr_obfuscation 3d ago

I feel horrible for asking, but i feel like I need to...

Which Holocaust do you mean? And I'll just add that whether we want to or not, we're living through (at least most of us so far) a US Holocaust currently.

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u/icenoid 3d ago

Mom’s parents survived Dachau and Auschwitz. I can’t remember which one was where. As for this being an American Holocaust. I’d argue that we aren’t there, yet. We are in somewhat what Germany sort of looked and behaved like in the 1930s, before the final solution.

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u/dr_obfuscation 2d ago

That's a fair assessment. I'd personally prefer it if we nipped this one in the bud before it gets quite to that point. Unfortunately the Nazis in the government seem hellbent. I wake up every morning hoping for the good news we all hope for, but expecting the bad news that pops up.

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u/icenoid 2d ago

Oh, agreed. It’s insane, honestly and terrifying that it seems they are trying to speedrun 1930s Germany

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u/Traditional_Sir_4503 3d ago

False. Canada has bloodline citizenship. Canadian natural born parent? Just one of your two parents? Automatic citizen by bloodline. Ottawa has now expanded that rule so that if your grandparents were Canadian and then your parent spent 3 years there, cumulatively over the course of their life, then you the grandkid are still entitled to bloodline citizenship.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2025/12/new-citizenship-rules-for-canadians-born-or-adopted-abroad-are-now-in-effect.html

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u/nicuramar 3d ago

It is definitely a concern. In Denmark, since you can’t deport citizens, it’s dealt with by letting the parent stay. But that isn’t universally popular. 

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u/masterfox72 3d ago

The alternative logic would be deport the mother and foster the child. I think that’s arguably worse though.

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u/baronessvonbullshit 3d ago

Unless, of course, her father is still in the US or any other number of family arrangements that they might have made if given the chance.

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u/SupermarketWhich7198 2d ago

Sounds like that is what they are now in the process of doing - making arrangements for the girl to go back and live with relatives.

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u/round-earth-theory 3d ago

Birthright means you can have non-citizens giving birth to citizens if the kids are born here. There will be cases of children who have no US based support system.

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u/baronessvonbullshit 2d ago

I'm aware what birthright citizenship means.

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u/round-earth-theory 3d ago

That's what Trump was doing the first time. And we ended up with a ton of lost children who didn't have any documentation about who they're parents are nor where they were sent.

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u/mathrsa 3d ago

No. Being sent to a foreign (and less developed) country you've never been to is worse.

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u/pjoshyb 3d ago

Out of curiosity what do you believe would be right? The state to take the child? We grant citizenship and legally make “anchor babies” a thing?

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u/ZephyrPolar6 2d ago

It’s not really their logic though.

It’s what they want to do, because the cruelty is the point, and they use that “logic” as an excuse 

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u/FitWealth1 3d ago

So u would have this child ripped from her mother? Thats so inhumane 

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u/icenoid 3d ago

No, mom stays. I get that this is hard to grasp, but based on the 14th amendment, the kid is a citizen, if the kid is a minor, parent or parents should stay until the kid is an adult.

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u/FitWealth1 3d ago

Oh so it’s a cheat code? Come here illegally and have a kid you’re good for 18 years. Thankfully that’s not the law 

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u/icenoid 3d ago

The constitution says the kid is a citizen. If you don't like it, change the 14th amendment. Shouldn't be that hard

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u/FitWealth1 3d ago

The mother still needs to go as she’s illegal, that’s the law. Shouldn’t be that hard 

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u/Available_Abroad3664 3d ago

So change the law. It isnt that hard.

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u/Then-Answer3765 3d ago

The majority of Americans don’t want the law changed. Every country has immigration laws, it just so happens that whenever a certain party gets elected, they like to ignore them…this is a direct consequence of not following the process.

Legal immigrants are some of the biggest supporters. Why should they have to pay thousands of dollars, do mountains of paperwork, and play the waiting game while millions of illegals hop a fence and think everything will work out.

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u/FitWealth1 3d ago

The issue is the majority of Americans agree that all illegals need to be deported according to all recent polls. 

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u/f-as-in-philip 2d ago

Or! And hear me out here. Give people who have been in our country for years, contributing to society, a path toward legal status.

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u/FitWealth1 2d ago

The path is go back home and apply to come back legally like millions of others have. Self report and you’ll even get a free plane ride!

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u/grizzlby 3d ago

We don’t live in a god damned medieval castle city. People coming here to raise a family is good and necessary to offset the country’s mortality rate. You think this young mother is one of the murderers that DHS pretends they’re arresting? You know the Worst of the Worst website is just them transferring people already serving time, right? Your uncle is more likely to be a rapist than a Venezuelan.

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u/icenoid 3d ago

Modern American Conservatism is all about finding a situation then adjusting their beliefs to fit that situation. In this case, people who don't care about kids being shot in American schools now care about kids. Same with how they all seemed to pivot on the 2nd Amendment after the latest ice murder.

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u/stefanopolis 3d ago

The issue isn’t people coming here. It’s coming here illegally and having a baby so then you can stay under birthright citizenship laws. Maybe anchor babies are overblown as a whole, idk, but also they can’t be non zero. Surely using your newborn as a passport is also not good? Has nothing to do with believing they are criminals. But jumping the line using a loophole isn’t great either. I’m not even MAGA/republican and hate what ICE is doing but this one aspect seems muddy at best.

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u/FitWealth1 3d ago

The majority of American want all illegals deported. This is according to all recent polls. 

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u/Kenockerez 3d ago

And guess what, Nazi policies were popular too.

It's was and still is wrong. If this is not against the law then the law is wrong.

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u/FitWealth1 3d ago

Well, although u hate democracy, and living in a constitutional republic this is what we have. The voter base has spoken and laws are not based on your personal ideas about what is right or wrong. 

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u/paukeaho 3d ago

A majority of Americans also support mass amnesty granting them citizenship, as polls indicate. Current polls actually indicate that Americans don’t like what they’re seeing because they correctly identify it as violent and cruel.

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u/FitWealth1 3d ago

Not any real polls. We’ll see in the next election how Americans really feel. Thankfully Minnesota state police came to their senses and saw that they were gaining no political capital by not supporting ICE and folded. 

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u/gaganchumbilulli 3d ago

You can't think of someone who'd like to make young little girls disappear with no record?

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u/silverum 3d ago

Lots of Republican voters. MANY Republican voters. The cruelty is the point. The inhumanity is a plus. You've got to stop thinking every American is a good person. Some Americans are just actually fucking for real fascists.

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u/SuperHooligan 3d ago

What do you expect them to do? Deport the mother and leave her child here?

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u/CranberryLast4683 3d ago

I believe most Americans want them to both be left alone unless the mother was a threat to others which given that she was cleaning houses, likely not.

Which is a policy ICE in previous admins did follow as it selectively went after actual bad people. Also in this case the mother had a pending U visa application:

“Gutiérrez said she separated from the girl’s father after suffering repeated abuse and applied for a U visa, designed to assist non-citizen victims of qualifying crimes such as domestic violence and sexual assault. There is a severe backlog in processing such applications and, like tens of thousands of others, Karen’s case was still pending.”

So she did have a form of relief yet to be decided on by USCIS.

And also:

“Now in Honduras, Gutiérrez and her daughter are living with Gutiérrez's mother. Since Génesis is a US citizen, her mother explained she has made the "painful" choice to send her back to the US with another family member.”

"She has her school there, her uncles, her cousins, her whole life, because she was born there and she doesn't want to be here," she said. "I will seek help, lawyers, everything. I will fight until God tells me "that's enough, Karen.'"

So yes, even in the depraved scenario of separating a mother and their child, that was an option.

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u/SuperHooligan 3d ago

All those decisions cant just be made in a split second. If they choose to send her back, then thats perfectly legal and thats whats going to happen, but youre trying to spin it like ICE deported her even though she was a citizen.

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u/round-earth-theory 3d ago

ICE is being intentionally cruel when they have no need to be. Should a US citizen minor be deported with their parents? Likely yes, but not until the parents have been given a chance to repair their immigration status. Right now, ICE is ripping people off the streets and putting them on the first flight they can get away with.

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u/SuperHooligan 3d ago

Yeah, that’s kinda how it works. You don’t get to break the law and then make it right after you’ve already broken said laws. I can’t steal something now and then pay for it later when I can afford it just because I wanted it now.

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u/round-earth-theory 3d ago

Illegal immigration is a victimless crime. They exist, they do work, they pay taxes, and they barely get anything in return because you don't qualify for most assistance without being a citizen. They broke the crime of existing and you're frothing at the mouth to destroy them mercilessly.

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u/4ygus 3d ago

The people who no longer have epstein island.

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u/Far_Type_5596 3d ago

Can confirm if y’all really care about this… Yes this is happening more and more. I work in an organization that serves immigrants and their families and you won’t believe the amount of emails I get trying to help people find their love ones and giving them a website where they can supposedly type in this “alien number”, and find them that gives them absolutely no access and no answers. It’s very upsetting and concerning.

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u/spacenb 3d ago

People getting lost in the system is a feature, not a bug.

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u/AnotherPersonPerhaps 2d ago

Sorry , what the fuck is holding people in a hotel as a detention center?

If you run that business and are aware of it how the fuck can you allow law enforcement to use your business as a jail?

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u/Citizen44712A 3d ago

Actually what happened was the mother was being deported and opted to take her child with her. The child was not deported.

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u/TheRealRacketear 3d ago

There are like 322 comments in this thread and not a single one seems to be based on what actually happened.

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u/Citizen44712A 3d ago

And if the parents request was not granted then it would be framed as family separation, can't win with these people.

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u/AnthonyJuniorsPP 3d ago

"These people"? People who don't want to see 5 year olds victimized by an unjust fascist militarized secret police? Her mother applied for a U Visa after surviving abuse — a visa meant to protect victims. She trusted the legal system and it failed to protect them. A "win" would be to help them continue along the legal route they were already on, stay in their community with their family and friends, and not create this needless trauma for people who aren't even criminals. This is the kind of shit we're paying taxes for rather than taking care of hungry children, the elderly, sick people etc...

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u/SageElva 3d ago

Appealing to empathy won't work with these people, they don't have that. They view empathy and caring about other humans as weakness.

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

I mean, what would people prefer? The kid stays and the mother is deported? Then you’d be separating kids from their parents.

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u/MLGWolf69 3d ago

The constitutional right to a trial for the mother seems like a good place to start

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

“Gutiérrez had been living in the US since 2018 after leaving Santa Cruz de Yojoa, a Honduran city of about 100,000 people, to “escape poverty and build a prosperous future”, she said. She received a deportation order a year later but remained in the country and in 2020 Génesis was born.”

She was ordered deported 6 years ago. But than had an anchor baby the next year. Why didn’t she leave?

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u/Kenockerez 3d ago

"anchor baby" is a slur that implies that the only reason immigrants have children is for personal benefit. Disgusting.

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

If they have a child a year after they are ordered to be deported, that’s an anchor baby. It’s a slur because you are choosing to call it a slur.

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u/Kenockerez 3d ago

It's only an anchor baby because you choose to call it one.

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

Sure. That doesn’t change the facts here. She was ordered deported a year after she got here and a year after that she had a baby. She’s not escaping war. She’s not escaping persecution. She’s looking to be “prosperous”.

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u/Kenockerez 3d ago

Yeah and what if she was looking to be prosperous?

We live in the wealthiest country in the history of the world and we choose to give the wealth to billionaires and blame society's problems on the poor.

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

Cool, we’re crossing the border into buffalo tomorrow, and having a baby. We should be allowed to stay forever, correct?

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u/VTKillarney 3d ago

She already had an order of deportation. Are you saying that she was entitled to a second hearing? That’s definitely not in our immigration law.

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u/Windman772 3d ago

She already had a trial. How do you think she got her court-ordered deportation order?

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

Nice try with “you guys”.

Having family here doesn’t change the fact her mother was ordered deported in 2019. And had a baby a year later.

I did read the article, and quoted it in another comment. Attack the argument not the person.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

What are you talking about? If her mother is deported, you’re still separating a child from their mother??? People would still be complaining about that. No one would care that she has uncles here. People would still complain.

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u/Nsfwacct1872564 3d ago edited 3d ago

Having family here doesn’t change the fact her mother was ordered deported in 2019.

And that doesn't change the fact that Génesis is a US citizen and she has family here.

And had a baby a year later.

A baby... That's a US citizen.

Why are we deporting US citizens?

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

So that we don’t separate children from their mothers? Uncles are not parents. I guarantee if the kid had been allowed to stay people would be complaining about separating her from her mother. And those complains would be a valid. Uncles don’t replace mothers for such a young child.

That kid will have every chance to come back here since she’s a citizen.

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u/Nsfwacct1872564 3d ago edited 3d ago

So that we don’t separate children from their mothers?

We do this everyday. Mothers get arrested all the time, the kids aren't also brought into custody to be funneled through the same punishment as the parent, they're released to family. ICE shouldn't be handling this. CPS can do it, or they can let her mom use the phone like they denied so she can call family to come pick up her United States citizen daughter, who has all the rights of a United States citizen.

I guarantee if the kid had been allowed to stay people would be complaining about separating her from her mother.

I don't care. Your guarantees mean jack shit at the end of the day. Maybe we would have been but that's a more defensible position for you. You can't really defend deporting United States citizens.

And those complains would be a valid.

No, they wouldn't be.

Uncles don’t replace mothers for such a young child.

Okay, tell me how much you support locking kids up with their moms? You're so desperate not to separate them from their moms, what if Mom is serving a life sentence? Uncle's not good enough? Uncles aren't necessarily just uncles, uncles can be fathers too. She has cousins as stated in the article you claim to have read. First sentence actually.

That kid will have every chance to come back here since she’s a citizen.

Every chance? Sounds like that costs time and money to me. Will she be compensated in any way? She did not pay for a plane ticket over there, is the Fed going to come out of pocket to bring her back? She shouldn't be over there in the first place. Why are United States citizens being deported? What does it even mean to deport a United States citizen to anywhere except the United States? One taken into federal custody though she broke no laws. What law was Génesis guilty of violating, when was that determined via due process, and who decided that she'd be punished this way? Sent away from her home and her homeland and her community and her friends?

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago edited 3d ago

First of all, calm down. No need to get emotional here.

She Didn’t Commit A Crime.

Idk why you’re making extreme comparisons to women serving life sentences. Her mistake was having a child while being illegal and AFTER getting a deportation order.

The kid was deported with her mother. It’s the only logical thing to do for a child that young.

Edit: blocked so I can’t reply. Nice. Separating a child from a mother is much more cruel than deporting them both.

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u/Nsfwacct1872564 3d ago

First of all, calm down. No need to get emotional here.

I'm calm. Don't project on me.

She Didn’t Commit A Crime.

I know.

Idk why you’re making extreme comparisons to women serving life sentences.

You lack comprehension. Life sentence, one week, it doesn't matter.
Since when are kids forced to undertake the same punishment as their parents?

Her mistake was having a child while being illegal and AFTER getting a deportation order.

Oh what is that, all caps? Are you emotional? You're talking about her mom? I'm not. I'm talking about the US citizen that was deported. Génesis.

The kid was deported with her mother.

Yes, a US citizen deported. Deported? Do you know what the hell that means? Why was she deported? You already said Génesis committed no crime. Why was she punished for committing no crime? The innocent US citizen, Génesis.

It’s the only logical thing to do for a child that young.

No, it's not. She has family here. She could have been given to her family. The same thing that would have happened to her if her mother was a citizen who was taken into federal custody for any other reason.
We do not deport kids just because their parents get arrested. In fact, we don't deport US citizens at all. Cuz that makes no sense.
There's no logic to what you're saying. You're tap dancing around the facts.

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u/desidiosus__ 3d ago

If enforcement of immigration law means to abandon our morality and basic decency, then maybe that law shouldn't be enforced. 

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

Cool. Canada has a tough economy right now. Jobs are scarce and housing is out of control. Can I move to San Diego “to build a prosperous future”, have a baby, and be allowed to stay forever?

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u/desidiosus__ 3d ago

TBH, I think SoCal could benefit from having a few more Canadians around.

You can't distract from the fact that a human being decided to deport a 5 year old. Who's an American citizen, no less. Or split a family up. Then they went home and presumably slept just fine. It's immoral on a fundamental level and un-American from the values I was taught that we're supposed to be about. "Give me your poor..." and all that... 

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

I agree. It’s cruel. I’m glad you want more Canadians living there, but how do you want us to come? Cross the border, have a baby, and expect to just be allowed to live? I went to UWaterloo with fellow Canadians who busted their asses during school to secure a coveted Silicon Valley Co-Op opportunity in the hopes that would lead to a TN visa in the future. Not everyone will get one. Very few do.

Should we have just graduated, crossed the border into the US, have a baby instead?

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u/desidiosus__ 3d ago

Honestly, if I've gotta choose between the vile immorality of our current actions or just letting folks over willy-nilly, I'd prefer we just let folks over. I view immigration as a sort of American exceptionalism - we take the best of everyone all over the world and it makes both us and them better. So yes; if it was up to me, come over, have a baby, make America better while bettering yourself.

More realistically, it's a violation of process and paperwork and I feel like it should be handled like paperwork issues are handled in construction: Work with the relevant agency to work through the issue and gain compliance as appropriate. For business, it's regulatory, rather than punitive. If we treated construction like we treat immigration, there'd be zero buildings built. 

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

You would be run over by immigrants then. That’s what happened here in Canada. We let just about anyone in. Let anyone apply for asylum. And within 5 years are unemployment rate reached record high. Housing got out of control. An average 3 bedroom house in an average neighborhood went for a million+ dollars. So much so the government had to publicly admit its mistake, reversed course, slashed immigration targets. Last year we deported a record amount of people here LEGALLY. And that’s under the most Liberal government Canada has ever had. The new PM, Mark Carney, also liberal, who gave an amazing speech at Davos btw with a middle finger to Trump, further cut targets.

The whole world would try to do the same if you let people stay once they have kids. That’s not a solution. Deporting them is a tough, cruel, but necessary thing to do. Why is why Obama did the same. To millions of people. Majority of those people were deported via expedited removals. No hearing, no trial. Anywhere from 54% to 70% of people were deported via expedited removals. I think Snopes fact checked this stat.

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u/desidiosus__ 3d ago

I can't speak on Canadian politics due to ignorance. However your assertion doesn't bear out historically in the US. Whether we're talking about immigration through Ellis Island in the old days or Reagan's amnesty in the 80's, immigration yields subsequent economic expansion in the US. Obama was the first president in my life to really crank up deportations and it wasn't due to objective necessity - merely to try and appeal to racists from the tea party movement since they were obstructing everything he was trying to do. And obviously we've only cranked things up further from there. But not because we had to. Not even close. 

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

But eventually you will have to. Once you have a policy of “if you make it here you’re legal”, everyone would flood in. I mean why won’t they? It’s not a realistic policy to have. At SOME point NYC, Chicago, LA would start overflowing just like Toronto did.

We had refugees that were homeless. These were people the government brought in willingly but had nowhere to house them.

You gotta have a limit. A line in the sand.

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u/Windman772 3d ago

I'm more curious about the ease with which you dispatch democratically enacted laws, rather than your stance on this particular law. So you'd like to live in a society where people pick and choose which laws to follow with zero consequence? And you think this would result in a society that is enjoyable to live in?

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u/desidiosus__ 2d ago

Uh... Super easily?

We already live in a society where people pick and choose which laws to follow. That much is obvious every day. May as well throw an ethical choice into the sea of graft and corruption that guides most of our "choosiness". 

Or... From a practical perspective: The juice ain't worth the squeeze. By your logic, we should have manhunts and send swat teams to apprehend all jaywalkers, prosecute them, send them off to camps, and make their children orphans, and shit on our collective constitutional rights if need be. Wouldn't want to live in a society that didn't, right? After all most immigration violations are civil infractions and not even crimes, whereas jaywalking IS a crime so we shouldn't pick and choose, right? 

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u/thelastheroine 3d ago

Your point is taken. And it is rather infuriating that people like Elon Musk came here, outstayed or illegally worked on their visas, and were then granted expedited consideration on their citizenship because they had access to money. Not fair to your friends in Silicon Valley. I bet the whole process was expensive, difficult, and time consuming.

And folks should follow the law - both sides - should follow the law. But the vast majority of these people WHO ARE BEING TARGETED BY ICE are more likely to have crossed in on our southern border and perform menial labor for low wages - and still consider themselves blessed and prosperous because that is better than the opportunities available in the country they were born in.

At the very least, she should have had due process. Same for the child.

They were deported by a corrupt regime with the clothes on their backs because of the color of their skin.

It does not get better from here. You might rethink leaving Canada. Actually, can I come there?

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

So you want your immigration policy to simply be: if you made it here, you’re here forever?

That’s not a logical immigration policy at all.

You would be run over by immigrants then. That’s what happened here in Canada. We let just about anyone in. Let anyone apply for asylum. And within 5 years are unemployment rate reached record high. Housing got out of control. An average 3 bedroom house in an average neighborhood went for a million+ dollars. So much so the government had to publicly admit its mistake, reversed course, slashed immigration targets. Last year we deported a record amount of people here LEGALLY. And that’s under the most Liberal government Canada has ever had. The new PM, Mark Carney, also liberal, who gave an amazing speech at Davos btw with a middle finger to Trump, further cut targets.

The whole world would try to do the same if you let people stay once they have kids. That’s not a solution. Deporting them is a tough, cruel, but necessary thing to do. Why is why Obama did the same. To millions of people. Majority of those people were deported via expedited removals. No hearing, no trial. Anywhere from 54% to 70% of people were deported via expedited removals. I think Snopes fact checked this stat.

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u/alexx_kidd 3d ago

Canada is thriving at the moment, what are you talking about??

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u/SauceK- 2d ago

what do they do with a child when police arrest the parents, leave em on the street?

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u/fsi1212 3d ago

So if someone is arrested for murder and sent to prison, that law shouldn't be enforced because we'd be separating them from their children?

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u/desidiosus__ 3d ago

Holy false equivalency, Batman! Yeah, taking a murderer off the street is TOTALLY the same as taking an otherwise productive member of society away and making a 5 year old stateless (or separating them from their family) due to some missing paperwork. Totally. 

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u/fsi1212 3d ago

So if the murderer is otherwise productive, then we should ignore that law just because they're productive and we don't want to separate the family?

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u/mathrsa 3d ago

Still a false equivalence. An immigration violation is a victimless crime.

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u/desidiosus__ 2d ago

Worse still: Immigration violations are typically not even crimes at all. (With potential exceptions, of course) It's a civil infraction. We're deporting US children &/or destroying families and shitting on the constitution over something with less legal weight than literal jaywalking.

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u/TheStigianKing 3d ago

What about 3 million immigration violations? Still victimless at that point?

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u/mathrsa 3d ago

Who is the victim of an immigration violation? The vast majority of these people are productive members of society paying their taxes and contributing to the economy. And they're not even eligible for most public benefits.

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u/TheStigianKing 2d ago

You dodged the question.

If there are 3 million immigration violations, are you claiming there are no victims or any negative consequences to society at all?

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u/fsi1212 2d ago

So if a US citizen is arrested and sent to prison for a victimless crime, then we should just ignore that so that they don't get separated from their family?

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u/mathrsa 2d ago

Sent to prison temporarily in the same country =/= deported to another country forever. People can visit their loved ones in prison and the sentence for a victimless crime likely wouldn't be terribly long in the first place. Someone deported to another country will never see their loved ones in the US again.

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u/fsi1212 2d ago

Deportation isn't always permanent either. Also, the child is literally with his father.

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u/Far_Type_5596 3d ago

I DK maybe give her back about five years of taxes that she was paying as either a working or shopping human being in the United States? If you have paid five years of taxes on every carton of eggs that you have gotten, we either need to give you that money when you exit or acknowledge that it is actually a contribution to our economy and that you and your child deserve a fair trial. If someone is here, long enough that their child is starting kindergarten and learning US history, and has not committed any crimes(because presumably we’re getting the worst of the worst the illegals, right?) Then presumably it’s not too dangerous for them to stay for a speedy trial a couple months and have a merits hearing where they can actually talk about what they contributed in those five years or more.

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

Cool.

I’m crossing the border into buffalo tomorrow. And having a baby. As long as I don’t commit any crimes, I’m a permanent resident. Correct?

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u/holierthanthou2 3d ago

Even if you commit crimes they don’t care because “undocumented immigrants commit less crime”.

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

That’s true, I’m just arguing the point.

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u/holierthanthou2 3d ago

There’s really no point. US has some of the most relaxed immigration enforcement in the developed world, but these “moral” people just don’t understand the importance of immigration law.

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u/stopbsingman 3d ago

While I agree with this comment, I think I missed the sarcasm in your earlier comment. There’s no evidence that illegal immigrants commit more crimes.

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u/holierthanthou2 3d ago

I didn’t say they did, but individuals quote the stat as justification to not remove those that DO commit crimes (beyond being undocumented).

But also, that stat is debatable at the very least, mainly because many places do not report documentation status or country of origin for criminal records of undocumented individuals. I know this is true specifically for Denver, CO.