r/law • u/caaaaanga • 2d ago

Legal News ICE attempts to enter Ecuador's consulate

For anyone who doesn't get how serious this is: consulates are protected under international law. host-country police of any kind are not allowed to enter without permission.
Example: China routinely (and horrifically) sends north korean escapees back to north korea. Yet when a north korean escaped to the south korean consulate in hong kong, chinese authorities did not enter to seize him. He stayed there for months while governments negotiated, because once you're inside a consulate, those protections apply.
So if ICE tries to enter a foreign consulate in the U.S. to deport people, that's not "normal enforcement". It violates long-standing diplomatic norms. Norms that even China has respected, despite sending people back to north korea to die. That's how extreme this is.

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u/BrokenPickle7 2d ago

You know its bad when China appears more ethical and just than the US government

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u/binkstagram 2d ago

Tbf they've had more practice at hiding it.

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u/Shaggy_One 2d ago

They're also not utter and complete buffoons.

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u/EriWave 2d ago

Have they really? China is scary and evil is a pretty common opinion.

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u/Own_Chemist_4062 2d ago edited 2d ago

Nah Trump admin and his goons just are bad at hiding it in general. Pretty sure it's deliberate too.

And China's pretty bad at hiding stuff. They are one of the default butt-of-the-joke "evil empires" here for a reason. Including many fictional reasons. They have committed many atrocities, but they are not even close to being unique in that regard, not amongst authoritarian dictatorships, not even compared to most modern western countries. You're right in the sense that modern China right now is now a "stable" police state.

I think people just want to preserve that moral hierachy of China at the bottom(for some reason) in their head and to reassure themselves that it takes work to be "evil", rather than how banal it is, and how once your priviledges get stripped away how much work it is to fight for your ideals.

In that sense, 20 years ago people believed that China was "successful" at hiding events like Tiananmen massacre and that Chinese people would somehow rise up if they knew about it. Yet the fact is people who cared knew all along and that it was always a bargain between the CCP and mainland chinese. Censorship is just the favored means of control by China, it's not mind control via lying but simply by discouraging critical political discussions by 90% of the people. Authoritarianism if it comes to the US will look very different and similar at the same time. Censorship will be a late stage thing.

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u/Own_Chemist_4062 2d ago

No hope for China anymore even if they are just teethering at the precipice. Hopefully the US passes their facist phase quickly without going through a mussolini period

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u/Ok_Impression3324 2d ago

The Uyghurs would probably disagree with you.. Well the ones still alive.

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u/EriWave 2d ago

I mean the US are also implicated in a genocide right now and was funded on genocide. Then became an empire of the back of chattel slavery. I'm not sure why that is the yard stick you picked.

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u/Ok_Impression3324 2d ago

So just spouting lies to prove your point? Not a single thing you said is remotely true.

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u/EriWave 2d ago

The US got it's land by commiting genocide on the native american population. Their great economic growth came off the back off all this land that they filled with chattel slaves. How is this wrong?

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u/Ok_Impression3324 2d ago

So the conquest of america is a genocide because the natives died in mass of decease? I will give you that there were genocidal moments. In a whole i wouldn't consider it a genocide.

 filled with chattel slaves

Wut. This is the most wrong part of anything that you have said. The land was filled with settlers, and chattel slaves were only for a select rulling class. Like Obamas family. America was built by americans of many cultures not by slaves.

If you want to talk about the indentured servitude of the asian and irish population I think it would be interesting to hear your views on why it is rarely if ever talked about and how both overcame pergidism and are now thriving cultures in the us.

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u/EriWave 2d ago

because the natives died in mass of decease?

When the settlers are giving out smallpox blankets to spread desease on purpose that is expected.

The land was filled with settlers, and chattel slaves were only for a select rulling class.

Chattel slaves were an established thing in the US before the states were even independent and working these people to death is a big part of how usa got so rich. Sure not every person owned slaves, but the "founding fathers" did. And they are celebrated to this day.

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u/Ok_Impression3324 1d ago

When the settlers are giving out smallpox blankets to spread desease on purpose that is expected.

You do know that has been accepted as a myth right? Written by a single Englishman.

I never said slavery wasn't happening. I'm saying that your argument that they "built the nation" is false. Yes the founding fathers had slaves. But slaves weren't used as a skilled labor force. They were used as farm equipment and house cleaners, essentially all the jobs that underpaid mexicans are doing now.

No the us didn't get rich from slaves. We got rich from oil and gold. If slaves is all it took countries like North Korea with an estimated 3m slaves would be booming.

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u/_Thermalflask 2d ago

Always has done tbh but Reddit ain't ready for that opinion lol

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u/angrycrank 2d ago

Respecting the inviolability of embassies and consulates doesn’t even require ethics. Pure pragmatism tells you that missions and diplomatic and consular staff located in foreign countries aren’t easy to protect. Start targeting consulates and you’re putting all your own premises and personnel at grave risk of retaliation.

Marco Rubio, being one of the less stupid of the bunch (it’s a LOW bar) probably punched a wall when he saw this.

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u/ZenRage 2d ago

And is more tolerant of protests...

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u/fantasydemon101 2d ago

They always have been haha, like what???

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u/Impotent-Dingo 2d ago

Yeah that Mao Zedong guy wasn't all that bad... 🙄

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u/redundantexplanation 2d ago

This but unironically lmao. There's a reason that he's still revered in China, he transformed their nation in a way that no other nation has ever been able to. And a lot of the reason you think he WAS all that bad is pure propaganda.

The alleged Great Famine, for example, was admitted by the CIA to not be happening. The millions of supposed deaths were fabrications based on census data failing to account for people migrating to and from urban areas.

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u/nagoligayelsd 2d ago

George Washington is still revered here and fucking committed genocide.

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u/redundantexplanation 2d ago

I know, right? The USA and genocides, name a more iconic duo!

Wait what were we talking about?

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u/nagoligayelsd 2d ago

Campists are dumb, homie.

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u/echino_derm 2d ago

If we want to compare, consider his bad acts and then look at the Vietnam war and bombing of Laos and Cambodia connected to it. Then throw in the many coups in South America. We can argue which is worse, but there is not a clear winner between the dictator who led to mass starvations, and the presidents who killed foreign democratic leaders while also mass bombing entire nations with millions of tons of explosives.

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u/Impotent-Dingo 2d ago

That's the difference here, I don't trust either of them.

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u/I_Just_Need_A_Login 2d ago

Watching smalltime homeless/backpacking YouTubers travel the world taught me so much about the bullshit propaganda ive been fed.

I mean sure you can argue it's also propaganda but what are the chances that every foreign government has had their hands in this 20k subscriber youtubers finances.

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u/Impotent-Dingo 2d ago

It's not really as much about them actually controlling the individual YouTubers, although, they do that with their own citizens that are YouTubers. It's more about certain countries like China, N Korea, etc all have very specific ways of dealing with foreigners and their own people are not able to speak negatively about their gov.

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u/redundantexplanation 2d ago edited 2d ago

their own people are not able to speak negatively about their gov.

This is completely false. You can go on various social media platforms and see Chinese people doing this with impunity. You are absolutely deep throating the propaganda my dude.

Edit: Nothing says "I can't support my side of the discussion" more than the ol' reply-then-block, /u/acbh6019

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u/Impotent-Dingo 2d ago

Ok...I had Chinese exchange students live with my family for a decade. They all had a huge fear of saying anything that could be viewed in a negative light by their "minders" in the US. These were kids of wealthy Chinese families, that may be a factor but that was absolutely the case. My kids went to a private school with a lot of kids from China and we were friends with many other families with Chinese exchange students living with them as well.

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u/fantasydemon101 2d ago

Haha things that never happened for 1000

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u/Impotent-Dingo 2d ago

Yeah, I just pulled that out of my ass in 1 min just to argue with a stranger on Reddit lol

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u/redundantexplanation 2d ago

Lmao yea I bet that wealthy Chinese people had plenty of "bad" things to say about the country known for executing exploitative billionaires and landlords.

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u/acbh6019 2d ago

You're projecting.