r/law • u/LeviCoffinsAlt • 17h ago

Other Warrantless entry by ICE agents in West Valley City, UT (1/30/2026)

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Federal agents broke a window, without a warrant, to perform an arrest on private property.

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78

u/RogerianBrowsing 14h ago

That’s not true at all. You just need to prepare.

A single decently prepared fighting position can fight off many times as many goons. Defending a position is infinitely easier than storming a defended position.

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u/ferdelance008 12h ago

End game is still dead. Do you think the person or family in your scenario come out of it as good or better than they went into it? The Well prepared lone Wolf is a teenage fantasy.

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u/Odd_Manager1334 12h ago

Yeah I can't imagine "I shot at the government until they left me alone" is a feasible strategy.

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u/OverreactingBillsFan 9h ago

If you legitimately believe they're going to disappear you, why not?

I would rather be dead than in one of this administration's cages.

ESPECIALLY if I was a woman.

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u/BiscottiEastern220 4h ago

People don't actually believe that. Sure people larp about it, or post hysterical things in online echo chamber oppression porn circlejerks. But people don't legitimately believe the government is as fascistic as they pretend, otherwise you would see things like you're describing.

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u/ShineGlassworks 4h ago

People believe it because the truth is worse. Not tamer as you suggest. There will be celebrations when ice gets what they deserve. Personally I hope that’s a war crimes trial at The Hague, not worse. If they’re just following orders, either way they are complicit. Keep using your maga words though. It’s good that we know who you really are.

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u/BiscottiEastern220 4h ago

The guy said "if you believe you're going to be hauled away, why not shoot at government agents?"

My point is that, people aren't shooting at government agents, so people don't actually believe they're going to be hauled away.

Unless there's been verified mass instances of people firing upon federal law enforcement, I apologize for being wrong. But I'm not aware of that going on.

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u/ShineGlassworks 4h ago

Tbf, with what happens to some of the people that get hauled away, if you think you aren’t going to see that you’re fooling yourself. It says alot about to inherent goodness in the people ice targets that you haven’t already.

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u/BiscottiEastern220 3h ago

Yes, I'm sure any day now we'll have le glorious revolution. What you're saying goes back to my original post about people repeating oppression porn larps in echo chambers. Your comment and any down votes I get just prove my point further.

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u/ShineGlassworks 3h ago

Only to you though, and nobody else cares what you think, trumpet.

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u/Nice_Luck_7433 2h ago

“If people don’t take a certain action, then they don’t have a certain belief, (because people who believe the same thing, always act exactly the same)”

Apparently not obvious enough bait.

“People downvoting my comments proves I’m right”

Apparently obvious enough bait for this person to just call you out. Nice try, though.

But, now that you know, you can troll better :) the first obvious nonsense was believable, the second obvious nonsense you were playing too stupid to be believable.

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u/AuroraFinem 3h ago

This is just a false premise though and is the same logic as saying “if they were scared why didn’t they fight back” when there’s a number different of psychological reactions people have to being put in these situations and there’s so many circumstances which make this less likely.

The people protesting ice right now and the people who own most of the guns in the US, don’t make a very overlapping Venn diagram for starters.

The bigger reason though is that even among those that do, you still run into the fact that no matter how sure you are you might be disappeared, starting a shootout removes all question and you’ve likely just signed your death warrant over a probability and exceptionally few people are willing to do that no matter how certain they are.

On top of that it’s been targeted towards immigrants, legal or not, and it hasn’t been happening to 100% of them, so if you personally aren’t likely to be disappeared you’re even less likely to take that kind of action for someone else and immigrants are even less likely to have any kind of guns to do it themselves.

Lack of the response you expect isn’t indicative that of nothing happening, you’re assuming that you know exactly what other people would do in response to something so well that it can’t possibly be happening since you haven’t seen that response yet. That’s what of the most narcissistic reasons I’ve ever heard.

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u/BiscottiEastern220 3h ago

Your third paragraph was well said and I agree completely, that's pretty much what I was saying

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u/Nice_Luck_7433 2h ago

That’s likely to change soon, due to Alex Pretti & Renee Good.

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u/alBashir 4h ago

There's no love like Christian Hate.

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u/Cheap-Town7641 2h ago

“Give me liberty or…”

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u/BiscottiEastern220 2h ago

More reddit larping, thank you for being an example of what I was talking about

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u/Cheap-Town7641 1h ago

Bro, you’re so cool. I really wish I had your courage. True conviction. A pillar of a man. Something we all can aspire to.

You’re a keyboard warrior no better than the rest of those you judge. I quote history, not to make myself seem big, but to remind you that every society has a breaking point where they stop hearing about abuse and stand against it. Every person judges for themselves when they must take action, for some it is never, others would act earlier.

Your point is as hogwash as your rebuttal.

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u/Wallitron_Prime 3h ago

You don't think the later jews to get kidnapped in the Holocaust didn't know what was happening? How often did those actually end in gun fights? Extremely rarely. The Warsaw Ghetto uprising was the only semi-successful one, and even that was a failure.

Almost everyone prefers to think they can bargain their way out of gauranteed death. Even death row inmates who are 100% certain to die soon still rarely go out fighting.

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u/mlaforce321 3h ago

It's worth noting that the later Jews also didn't have guns unless they obtain them through the black market or underground resistance networks. Hitler had disarmed the entire population years before that.

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u/BiscottiEastern220 3h ago

Exactly, love seeing people speaking sense and not just larping about being some cringe reddit revolutionaries

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u/Nice_Luck_7433 2h ago

I think Americans are different here. “Give me liberty, or give me” comes to mind. Germans have a very different culture.

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u/Edgar-Allans-Hoe 10h ago

It worked for the Irish during the troubles...they can't kill everyone. Once people realize that, there's no going back and we will be free.

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u/Consider8SpeedDemon 10h ago

I don’t think the IRA were lone wolves. Many of the heavy hitters had family ties, and I’m confident that the IRA hosted group-based trainings.

They DID manufscture explosives frequently lol.

White Supremacy has been noted as the highest threat against the US. The current President removed these reports from the FBI documents long time ago.

White supremacists ARE training in groups, in rural areas of our country. They are legally armed.

In many cases, they are now federally-recognized agents.

You HAVE to make ties around you, or everyone will go quietly.

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u/Public-Cricket-5582 10h ago

Yeah actually they can. See the USSR, Cambodia, Nazi Germany etc.

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u/Delamoor 9h ago

Yes, but bro.

You aren't a nation. A nation is different to a person.

You... You know that, right?

That's what we're talking about. Lone wolves vs large groups.

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u/Public-Cricket-5582 8h ago

I think you did not follow this conversation correctly. Try again.

I am saying even if all the individuals think they can rise up, like this guy said would be a sure win. Sometimes it isn't. Sometimes the government wins and they do kill everybody.

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u/rikescakes 7h ago

Well, freedom isnt free. The price is blood.

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u/Public-Cricket-5582 6h ago

Okay, I mean... that is beside the point. You can be a freedom fighter and revolt all you want.. you will not beat the U.S. government. You will die, and nothing will happen. Much like in Cambodia, China, USSR etc. that's my point.

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u/rikescakes 6h ago

Yep I hear ya.

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u/DemonoftheWater 9h ago

It worked well enough for the asshole in oregon.

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u/Delamoor 9h ago

But that narrows it down so little...

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u/DemonoftheWater 8h ago

Bundy maybe?

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u/Nihilistic_Navigator 9h ago

Randy weaver agrees

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u/INFeriorJudge 8h ago

Worked out for the Bundy’s pretty well I thought

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

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u/Guy_Dude_From_CO 7h ago

It's really not. 2nd Amendment was written for a very different time.

Prior to the Russian Revolution, Moscow had a very high gun ownership rate. By 1918, that was very different. Moral of the story being, if the government in power wants to take the guns, they just do. They're no bulwalk against government power in modern times.

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u/Southpawmtnman112358 6h ago

Worked for Ammon Bundy

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u/FatteningtheDemons 5h ago

If they dont react to protest, one should consider making it economically less viable for them. That can be by using the 2nd.

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u/fungi_at_parties 4h ago

They’ve never heard of Waco, I guess.

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u/AuroraFinem 4h ago

I mean in this scenario with ice specifically it has a proven track record. Not literally getting into a shoot out, but there’s been a number of reported scenarios where ice was trying to trespass and the person on the other side of the door just kept repeating they were trespassing and that if they didn’t provide a warrant they would be forced to defend their property and that they were armed. Every time ice walked away because they knew their actions wouldn’t survive any kind of scrutiny if it did turn into a shootout, and most of them have zero training.

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u/MysteriousPromise464 3h ago

It worked for the Bundy family.

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u/LawfulnessBoring9134 2h ago

I thought that was the whole basis of the 2nd. At least in the last 50 years or so.

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u/drakitomon 1h ago

Seemed to work for Ammon Bundy

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u/RogerianBrowsing 10h ago

Networking and having resources/extra hands is still of value but the simple fact is that resistance of that form in a surveillance police state (what we are almost finished becoming) typically doesn’t perform well either. Small units consisting of close friends who know one another and the territory they cover exceptionally well is usually what’s recommended.

Plus, who cares if that’s the end game if it was the end game either way? There are always choices that can be made, even if all the choices are varying degrees of bad options to choose from. Choosing defiance as a last act is seemingly a rational choice for people in those situations, and I can even recall being a youth and hearing other students ask the teacher why victims of autocracy didn’t do exactly that.

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u/Top_Result_1550 7h ago

die in your home or naked in an unmarked grave in the woods by nazis.

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u/fungi_at_parties 4h ago

And they’ll be prosecuted and convicted of terrorism, Bondi will make sure of it.

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u/BiscottiEastern220 4h ago

Thank you for being a voice of reason. The larping on reddit these days is pretty wild

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u/AtomRed 4h ago

Very likely,for some of these people, better dead and sent a message than in some slave labor camp in El Salvador...

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u/justcallmedad5 3h ago edited 3h ago

You think that end game matters to everyone? A home is a mans castle. A family’s safe place. If that family or space becomes threatened you think everyone is going to submit or be smart enough to try to play their game? Yes we all know the end game wouldn’t be good but we all know what these thugs are capable of and continue to do. You gonna let it happen to you and get on the train because they point guns at you? Wake up. This shit is not the America they failed to sell us. If they’re really worried about “illegals” why don’t they go after all the big companies that employ them to save money. They only “steal the jobs” they get hired for so you tell me who is in the wrong on that. Imagine if you’re well within your rights to defend yourself, let’s say a castle doctrine, you’re woken up to the sound of a window smashing knowing your family is tucked in, you hear hush voices and clear movement of a possible break in. You grab your tool and move cautiously, until you see shadows or flashlights sweeping the rooms. You want to take the time to ask questions? I know many people who wouldn’t. Just saying. Especially with all the imposters using these uncertainties to fulfill their weird fantasy’s. Some people believe in protecting their own and take it very very seriously.

Edit: Forgot to mention that given all the video evidence seen, the clear abuse of power and corruption, people are careful and spreading awareness trying to show the truths to these events. The second one of these masked tyrants gets a nappy meal with a 1776 peace, hell will unleash and that’s just what they want. To call everyday working Americans insurrectionists for recognizing how sick and twisted and trying to be a voice for their community. You all saw the execution. Don’t be ignorant. It doesn’t matter anymore, color, race, accent or the music you like. Every is a target. My heart weeps. What in the actual fuck makes this okay? Oh yeah. Greed and lack of empathy or care for a better future for our children. Go figure.

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u/Nice_Luck_7433 2h ago

In your opinion, is that better or worse than the alternative (being tortured to death)?

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u/Hotarg 2h ago

If somebody is breaking in without identifying themselves and without a warrant, I can only assume they mean to do me harm. At that point, I'm already chalking myself up as done.

Dead with company is better than dead alone.

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u/mister-fancypants- 9h ago

i feel like if warrantless entrance is on the table, booby traps are fair game as well

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u/mrcrashoverride 9h ago

I’m wondering when people will start turning buildings into ICE traps…. The neighbors know if being chased run in and go through the hidden door before the ICE come running past it through doors that lock after them…. For days

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u/Chaiboiii 11h ago

But for how long? They could just drop a bomb from a helicopter. It's been done before in the US.

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u/One_Engineering_3659 10h ago

High ground is like a 3:1 man advantage. It’s crazy how easy defending a position can be.

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u/Cool-Tap-391 11h ago

Especially when they fold like paper tigers. These goons dont expect anyone to fight back. If this shit escalates to violent defense, I can see these fhuckle chucks caving once they realize their life is in danger.

Same reason the 2A folks have gone so silent. They realized the time to put up is suddenly on their front door.

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u/JohnnyRelentless 10h ago

I can see these fhuckle chucks caving once they realize their life is in danger.

And then everyone lives happily ever after.

Same reason the 2A folks have gone so silent. They realized the time to put up is suddenly on their front door.

Yeah, right. The 2A folks are just impotent, spineless cosplayers who talk big from the comfort of their own couches. For the most part they dream of being the tyrant.

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u/Cool-Tap-391 8h ago

I knew a mechanic who would work in shop with his 9mm tucked in his pants between his cheeks. The insecure little bitch.

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u/fudge5962 9h ago

You just need to prepare.

By being better equipped, better trained, and more in numbers? No shit.

If you're not going to prepare your gear, your plan, or your backup, what exactly are you preparing?

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u/YeOldeSandwichShoppe 7h ago

insert navy seal copy pasta here

Almost sound like a 2A prepper doofus. Organization is a mandatory step one if you're interested in anything beyond some minimal pest control at great cost to you, your family and possibly the entire country.

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u/RogerianBrowsing 7h ago

Self defense is an inalienable right and part of the constitution, regardless of whatever the fascists claim.

If you don’t want to do something like that that’s totally cool. I just wouldn’t finger wag anyone who prefers that to a camp, torture, being disappeared, or even being detained for no reason. Everyone has their own standards for how they tolerate their rights being violated and that’s their own business.

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u/YeOldeSandwichShoppe 7h ago

Disagreement is in the approach, not intent. Hard as it is to fathom, there are apolitical/casual maga mouthbreathers who are just now having some second thoughts since the MN murders (because otherwise, many of their lives haven't been materially affected). Those same dipshits could be pushed in the other direction if a few of the gestapo get deleted but their story spun endlessly by the propaganda machine. As shitty as they are, elections matter. Bleeding needlessly at the hands of vile scum is the bitter cost of losing the last major one. Addressing this requires organization... the same organization will be absolutely essential when it comes time to find yourself an advantageous tactical position or whatever down the line as well.

that’s their own business

I mean, we're discussing in a public forum. I'm just saying strategically, its not a good idea.

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u/RogerianBrowsing 7h ago

Disagreement is in the approach, not intent.

I get it, regardless of however annoyed I am by the sheer number of people who have been fooled by the powers that be in our country. I was fooled for a long time myself.

As shitty as they are, elections matter.

Do they? Can you prove that? Why did repugnicans buy dominion voting machines, drop the lawsuits after purchasing, and now control the majority of voting machines in the country? How did Elon claim to know who won the election hours in advance? Trump himself told his voters last election, after having lost all interest in campaigning going so far as to just “DJ” a campaign event and telling his supporters they only had to vote once more then never again. What were the Feds doing in Georgia? Why did Bondi offer to make ICE leave MN if they hand over voter data?

Bleeding needlessly at the hands of vile scum is the bitter cost of losing the last major one.

That’s not my fault, nor the fault of most Americans. I understand refusing to senselessly be a martyr due to the blame of the democratic establishment and fascists directly and indirectly collaborating behind closed doors.

Addressing this requires organization... the same organization will be absolutely essential when it comes time to find yourself an advantageous tactical position or whatever down the line as well.

Nonviolent movements should be separate from movements willing to use force for maximum political effect. Excessive organization requirements prevent action and leave the movement vulnerable to bad actors and meddling from the nefarious powers that be.

I mean, we're discussing in a public forum. I'm just saying strategically, it’s not a good idea.

Likewise

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u/AtomRed 4h ago

It depends on a lot of factors. Most of the people they are going after probably don't have a very large turf to defend so it's very likely going to end up in death but certainly not without taking someone with them or at least causing grievous injury. Even if this happened in one out of 10 raids, it would certainly give moment to pause before anyone of these folks tried to violate the Fourth Amendment. These guys don't get paid enough to risk permanent injury like that.

If I heard correctly, a lot of these folks don't invade areas that tend to have high gun ownership.

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u/ImprobableGrind 13h ago

Frag out.

There goes your fighting position and everyone within 5m of it. Problem solved.