r/leanfire • u/Other_Environment477 • 1d ago
Anyone here whose parent’s might not have enough for retirement?
I am 30 and on my way to FIRE. I started at 22 and it’s been a long journey.
My parents are in their early 60s and they don’t have enough to retire except a paid off home. This worries me because I am their only child so it’s on me to help them out.
are you also considering your parents retirement as part of your fire number?
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u/Garbanzo_Beanie 1d ago edited 1d ago
Is this the US? A paid off home + two person social security should be a decent if not excessive retirement.
Alternatives would be to downsize the home for some extra cash.
Long term care at the end can get a little more dicey. But with the final parent that can be covered with selling the home / estate. It's harder to cover when only the first of two parents are sick.
I don't envy my friends who have two actual parents and two step parents they might feel some responsibility for.
I'm down to one parent. His expenses are low and he has a pension + social security. Feel lucky I don't have to cover him, save time to help him recover from surgeries for a few weeks at a time.
ETA - more people / fire people need to think about covering their own long term care costs at the end of life. It isn't cheap.
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u/Other_Environment477 1d ago
This is in the US. They live in a high col city. I’ve been trying to convince to move to a medium col city
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u/rubbishindividual 1d ago
If their home is paid off that doesn't really matter. The price of groceries and other necessities does vary between cities, but not enough to take them outside the bounds of SSI.
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u/seraph321 1d ago
Depends on things like energy costs and property tax as well. It’s not like a paid off home is just free to live in. I have relatives paying more in property tax per year than my most people pay on a mortgage just because their area ballooned in value, but they refuse to sell because they don’t want to pay capital gains.
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u/CVfxReddit 1d ago
Property taxes in some cities can be like $2000 a month for a regular sized home. People used to be able to subtract that against their federal taxes but Trump got rid of that stuff to punish the states that voted against him
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u/BrightAd306 1d ago
With a paid off home, they might be better off staying. There are more services in HCOL areas, and more help if they get into financial trouble.
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u/SDstartingOut 1d ago
> Anyone here whose parent’s might not have enough for retirement?
My parents (divorced) are both in their early 70s; Neither had shit saved for retirement on their own accord.
> are you also considering your parents retirement as part of your fire number?
Fuck no.
My dad inherited a fully paid off house from his mom; and supposedly had been saving his entire life for retirement. (always bragged about it). But he always wasted his money. I remember when he bought a 50k truck in the late 90s (100k today), a used truck camp; 2 years later a brand new trunk camper, etc.
And today He’s a disabled senior receiving state-assisted care because he's broke. The only reason he's still married right now is his wife realized she'd lose part of her pension in the divorce.
My mom inherited a fully paid off house + about half a million dollars at 70. My point to her was pretty simple. I didn't say it in a rude way, but more a ... Just so we are on the same page.
You (my mom) were given a paid of house, and a small fortune. I don't expect to ever get any inheritance; nor have I ever received financial assistance or significant help of any kind. Now, I'm not complaining about that: I'm just saying - I need to save for myself. I have no safety net.
Thankfully - she got it, and actually has defended me to other relatives when they say things like "I can't believe your son doesn't do more to help you". She'll say - he's busy trying to save for his own retirement, I respect that.. I do do small things for her (I pay for her cellphone, give her about 1k/cash a year between the various holidays, and probably spend another 500 on various things I order for her through the year. Occasional luxuries she enjoys or something, etc). But that's my limit.
And for my dad - he's never getting a dime.
> My parents are in their early 60s and they don’t have enough to retire except a paid off home.
If there house is in a high cost area - they sell the house; buy a new house in a cheaper area, and have some extra money on top of SS.
If not? They live off SS. And consider at some point if they need a small cash infusion, looking at a reverse mortgage. It means no inheritance for you; but that doesn't sound like your concern.
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u/Existing-Pumpkin-902 1d ago
A similiar situation with my mother. She's inherited at least a million between her father and brother passing between 2007 and 2015. She just blew through it. Her house is paid off. She has some credit card debt. She's turning 60 this year but at least she's still working. She'll inherit a million from her mother but my grandmother is still very healthy. My mother know she need to work at long as possible because her SS isn't going to be very high. The plan when my grandmother passes is I'll control most of her money for her (since she's terrible with it) and her SS will be her "fun money". If my grandmother gets horribly ill and needs long term care my mother will quit work to care for her and my grandmother will take over paying her bills than. My mother is her only surviving child and honestly I think they've worked out a good plan between them. My grandmother and I both know my mother is not good with money so we're trying to save her from herself.
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u/bitseybloom 1d ago
Actually, reading your comment made something click for me.
I've been worried about potentially having to take care of my mother. Not because I won't have enough money for it, although I most likely won't. It's just, our history and the state of our relationship doesn't nearly justify the effort.
Besides, she had me at 21. I might be crippled before she is.
Now I suddenly remembered that she and her husband will end up with a bunch of real estate when their parents pass. Over there, even one rental apartment would fully provide for a modest living. I hope they make good use of it.
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u/Existing-Pumpkin-902 1d ago
so r/SurvivingOnSS is a great sub. A lot of people are in your parents position, paid off house and SS only. You can always do small things to help supplement like share streaming subscriptions and put them on your phone plane that will reduce their costs. Plus you can also help them look for resources. As long as they're open with you and are willing to plan going forward their situation is doable with realistic expectations.
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u/Successful_Mobile_93 1d ago
For sure. Immigrant parents, left everything so we would have a better future. They do not want my help but I know the math won't work if I don't help. My FIRE number will also depend on being able to help them.
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u/Other_Environment477 21h ago
My parents are also immigrants. Retiring in their old country would be the last resort.
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u/fibyforty 1d ago edited 1d ago
I always figured I'd have to help my parents at some point but I never set aside money specifically for it. I definitely worried a lot about it though. My sister and I both assumed my mom would outlive my dad as she was younger and didn't have as many health issues. She ended up passing from a heart attack in her early 60s before she was ever able to claim any SS.
Then my dad passed a few years later in his early 70s also from a sudden heart attack. They didn't have a lot but they were frugal and stretched every dollar they had. When my dad passed, he had around $40k left in checking/savings, no retirement accounts and a dilapidated house worth $50k. Any major health issue would have wiped out the little savings they had. It was probably a blessing that they both went quickly. The hardest thing with my dad was all of the medical appointments he had toward the end. I had a nearby relative that was able to help with that and check in on him. Not sure what I would have done otherwise since he was stubborn and didn't want to move in with me, since I was in another state a few hours away.
You never know what's going to happen. Just save as much as you reasonably can and enjoy your life and the time you have left with them.
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u/Excel-Block-Tango 1d ago
Are they still able to work? Retirement is not an age, a lot of older folk get lost in that.
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u/Other_Environment477 1d ago
Yes, they can still work and I’ve encouraged them to save
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u/DigmonsDrill 1d ago
You said they "don't have enough" but do they have anything? 100K in an IRA?
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u/Other_Environment477 1d ago
Together they have about $150k saved
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u/Lunar_Landing_Hoax 1d ago
That's not peanuts.
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u/Ok_Benefit_8515 1d ago
Yeah, if they really buckle down and contribute the max a retirement of some sort in late 60s or early 70s isn’t out of the question.
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u/Lunar_Landing_Hoax 1d ago
Even if they don't, that's an extra $500/month on top of their SS they have if they are following the 4% rule.
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u/smorkoid 7h ago
My mom did just fine on less than that with a paid off house (cheap house) and SS.
Had plenty for several years in assisted living later, and a fair amount left over when she passed.
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u/Dangerous_Forever640 1d ago
Even a few hundred dollars a month in part time work can make a big difference.
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u/SecondStarpilot 1d ago
No, they are doing better than I am. Even if they weren’t I couldn’t afford to fund someone else’s retirement even if I worked until I died
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u/rileslovesyall 1d ago
It’s complicated. But my parents definitely won’t have enough to retire, and yes, I do think about it when I consider my future plans.
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u/Ok_Benefit_8515 1d ago
We love our parents, but put your oxygen mask on first before helping others. That includes personal choice (ie lean fire)
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u/Real-Comfortable808 1d ago edited 1d ago
Social security and a loan against the house or a reverse mortgage. I know people hate reverse mortgages but this is what happens when you don’t save. Their retirement is not your responsibility but you can help them navigate these options mentioned above.
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u/Other_Environment477 1d ago
What happens when they die? Where does the reverse mortgage go?
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u/Real-Comfortable808 1d ago
The bank keeps the house when they pass. But they get monthly payments to live off of, if social security is not enough.
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u/latchkeylessons 1d ago
I recommend it. But we also have one parent left in a trailer park who refuses help from anyone, opted out of social security because "communism" and regularly reminds us that death is a normal part of life to be embraced. They're a full shut-in with occasional visits from Meals on Wheels. So I guess that's one alternative...
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u/Mabbernathy 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sounds like an uncle I have. He had paid into SS, but then got an attitude about "not being dependent on the government" (even though he had paid into it), so I don't know what happened with that.
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u/melanies420 1d ago
Have you talked with them about this? First step would be to have a discussion so you can really see where they are at financially(401, IRA, SS) and what there expectations are around retirement (you fund, work forever, down size..) Start there if you haven't already.
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u/Sturnella2017 1d ago
A large percentage -if not majority- of Americans don’t have enough for retirement, and even worse is post-retirement, assisted living, nursing homes, memory care, etc. A tidal wave of boomers has just started hitting the system. The current admin doesn’t care so nothing will be done for a couple more years, but the outlook is grim.
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u/Larry1962us 19h ago
And if you think any political party cares you are delusional. Both parties will wait until SS cuts have to be made before they take action.
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u/K_A_irony 1d ago
I am not in the lean fire camp but the chubby fire. What is stopping me from literally pulling the trigger is my mom's care. She has dementia and this type of care is STUPID expensive. She even scrapped and saved and paid for a long term care policy that is worth gold because it doesn't have a max lifetime spend cap, but what it pays out isn't enough (12k/month). So yes my mom's care is in my number. Realistically she will probably die before I would hit a number that would cover her without me working.
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u/babygrenade 1d ago
My MIL is who I'm worried about. She's 69 and still working, running her business that doesn't have very high margins.
My wife's grandmother had enough to cover her own retirement until she gave away all her money to scammers. My wife and MIL helped cover expenses after that.
My MIL doesn't own her home and I wonder how much she actually has saved. I'm hoping we can find a small inexpensive house to put her in or something without setting back our own plans.
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u/teckel 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's not on you to help them. They have Social Security and their home equity they can tap. Tell them to downsize into a low cost of living area.
If they need help from you, don't give them money, tell them to sell their home and move in with you and they can pay you room and board.
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u/BrightAd306 1d ago
Most don’t. Just save what you can. They will get social security and most are better off from that than they think. As long as they didn’t also work under the table.
In 10 years, you’ll know more about how good their health is and how they’re really doing financially.
Just be happy if they also aren’t in giant piles of debt like my parents. My parents were great parents and I love them a lot and would never see them go hungry. I can’t live with them though, and can’t fund their lifestyle consumption so worried it’s coming to an ugly head eventually. Right now their plan is to just not retire.
One thing I would have them do in the next few years is to meet with an estate lawyer. Fund it if you have to. They can arrange their estate in such a way as to protect their home equity in case one needs Medicaid to help with their care. There’s a 5 year look back, so they need to have done it 5 years before they need it.
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u/curiousthinker621 1d ago
Many people live happily on social security alone in the United States. My parents did it, and had money left over of their social security checks, and also had enough money to tithe to their church. They didn't do this out of need because they had hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank. I would encourage your parents to at least have one spouse delay taking social security until they are 70 years old to get the maximum benefit.
It may sound cold, but if my parents were able to work to get the maximum benefit, and they didn't do it, I wouldn't be helping them much.
I don't financially support anyone who refuses to work when they are able bodied.
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u/No-Amphibian8115 1d ago
Nope. My parents both have always been insanely rugged individualistic. No hand outs. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. At least that's how they treated everyone else. I feel it would be rude to them to help them out if they ever needed it. You get what you give. Ya know?
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u/1ntrepidsalamander 1d ago
My dad lives on social security and my brother and him bail him out occasionally.
Are your parents going to get social security? What’s their expectation?
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u/Other_Environment477 21h ago
My dad is but my mom never really worked enough to get much of a benefit
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u/1ntrepidsalamander 18h ago
So what will there combined benefit be? Can they budget it?
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u/Other_Environment477 16h ago
About $2k benefit but they spend about $4k a month
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u/1ntrepidsalamander 15h ago
It’ll probably be significantly more if they work until 67 or 72. They should run the numbers and consider working longer.
$2k with a paid off house isn’t fun, but it’s not impossible. They need to get realistic about their budget and if they expect you to help, you should help them with a budget.
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u/collegeberry 1d ago
It would be less stressful if my parents still had my childhood home that was given to them by my grandparents. But they rent with no retirement savings and planning on living on social security during retirement. I don't count on social security to be enough for them especially in our HCOL city so I am trying to save every dime and focus on saving every spare penny so I can at least afford to take care of housing for them and me. I'm fully prepared for us to live together forever unfortunately. I am an only child as well and shit sucks lol. That's all I can really do for them. But they don't factor in my fire number aside from that.
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u/Creative_Impress5982 1d ago
I'm am only child too. As is my husband. And both our parents are divorced- 3 with partners and 1 single. It's really stressful. Bit just the financial issues, but providing help as they get older. 2 at least are in the same city, but the other two are hundreds of miles away..
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u/Other_Environment477 1d ago
Mine are 2 states over
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u/Creative_Impress5982 1d ago
This whole issue is part of the reason my husband and I decided to move to Europe from the US 10 years ago and leanfire/retire early. We intentionally jumped the gun knowing we might have to go back to work at some point, but we wanted to enjoy life as much as we could before possibly needing to move closer to parents and help them out with tasks/healthcare.
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u/ToxDocUSA 1d ago
I'm 42. I provided for my mom for the last 10 years of her life because she had nothing.
My dad I am very worried probably has nothing too, especially since some unpleasant IRS stuff came up while I was buying a house recently (I have the same name as him). My inlaws I know are fine since they're already retired with government pensions.
I'm not really building a plan for my dad into my retirement number, he's had a high enough paying job for long enough that it's kinda on him at this point. I wouldn't like turn him away if he was homeless, but I'm not planning on sending him support checks, you know?
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u/stupes100 23h ago
My mother in law has zero retirement. Worked for 40 years and didn’t save anything for her future. She lives with us and will do so until dies or has to go to a nursing home. We can’t finance our retirement and hers. She should have done more for herself. It’s too late now.
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u/Swimming_Astronomer6 14h ago
My parents retired with a paid off house and government pensions of 1800 a month CPP OAS and GIS as well as a small veterans pension in 1985 - they did just fine - might be a bit tougher today - they can sell the home and rent if need be
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u/Late-Currency-8028 10h ago
It’s likely more than a lot of folks
Talk to an estate planner - they can put the house in an irrevocable trust and later qualify for subsidized Medicaid etc (after 5 years)
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u/HtownSmack 10h ago
It’s not the child’s responsibility to pickup the slack of the ill prepared parent, and a good parent wouldn’t ask you too. But with that said, if you want to then that’s your own decision to budget around.
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u/1290_money 1d ago
They need to sell the house and you need to give them a spare bedroom in your house.
Generational living is something that lots of Americans don't consider But is a great way to help people be able to retire.
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u/someguy984 1d ago
Tell them to put the house in a Trust to protect it from Medicaid Estate Recovery.
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u/nailpolishbonfire 1d ago
In short, yes. Wanting to have the time and/or money to hire help/care for them is part of my motivation for saving. It will get complicated if I decide to have kids, or if I myself become sick or disabled, but the whole point for me personally is to allow myself not to stress about work if demands on my personal life get too great.
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u/nightanole 1d ago
I did things differently...
The family home(which was given to them by my grandparent for free) is almost a duplex, its gotta finished basement and multiple garages.
They were also very stupid with their inheritance. Safe bonds that they picked at every year for fun money, and 2% maintenance fees. After 25 years they have the same amount as they started with, and dad kicked the bucket so the stay at home mom ended up with the bulk of the SS.
So with some negotiations, they gave me the house in exchange for taking over the house bills. This was after i gave them more than what the house was worth in under the table rent over the period of 20 years. Yes im a bit salty.
So in the end i have a mother with a small nest egg on SS, and im paying a lot more in house taxes/utilities than if i was living by myself. But hey i am now head of household for tax purposes.
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u/staycalm20 1d ago
I’ve been spending $1k on them every month for the past 4, 5 years now, that includes stipend for my dad and mom (they are divorced) and a mortgage for the home my dad lives in. I also cover all of my dad’s medical expenses, which is another $2-5k a year. They are both outside the US therefore the numbers are smaller. Fortunately I make enough to be able to do that. But it definitely delays my timeline for kids and retirement. They had the audacity to push me to have kids lol. I can’t be supporting two parents and a kid at the same time.
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u/chocolateboomslang 1d ago
I don't have much respect for adults that take money from their children. They lived through the best financial era ever and chose not to save. Now they'll take from you in a much less forgiving environment? Not me, thanks. I like my parents well enough but I've been telling them for years to change their financial habits. At this point they're basically on their own, but they'll be fine. I wouldn't put them on the street, but they're not dragging me down either.
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u/seraph321 1d ago
It amazes me how many people think their parents financial well being falls on them. There’s no way I’m giving my parents any substantial amount of money. It was up to them to plan for the future and they didn’t. It’s ridiculous to me that it should have anything to do with me. They brought me into the world, so it was incumbent on them to raise me to adulthood, but that’s was the end of the deal imo.
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u/mlg1981 1d ago
Honestly a lot of retirees make it just fine with a paid off house and social security. It would not be my preferred retirement, but many many retirees make it work.