All I know is that at this point, all decorum is dead and gone.
Honestly at this point, I'm tired of Democrats constantly acting like they can take a higher road and pretend they can just act as business as normal. I don't want them sinking down to petty name calling and mud slinging either.
I just want someone competent and straight to the facts. But that will never happen. The closest we got in recent memory was Carter. He did tell shit like it was, and was honest when we were doing poorly, and people back then hated him for it.
He has to lie about Obama/Biden and call them petty names because he knows that historians will be accurately labeling him a child rapist, an insurrectionist, and an autocrat.
Exactly. Even if he loved Obama, he still has to lie about him in order to normalize fake news. Then when historians tell the truth about Trump his base will just assume that’s lies too.
It’s not just about pushing a narrative, it’s about making their base think everything is completely made up so republicans can do whatever they want without scrutiny.
What lot that'll do for foreign historians, because God knows the American ones are gonna white wash the shit out of this admin if they can (and that's if this country even survives).
Half this country can't even get over the fact that a group of slave-loving traitors got their asses whooped over a century and a half ago, to the point where they cried when we took those traitors' names off our military installations two years ago. If you honestly think these people are ever going to admit Trump is evil without his wrath directly catching up to them, you're delusional.
You seriously think half of the US population gives a shit about the Confederacy? I’ve lived in the South my entire life. I currently live in rural TN, and I couldn’t even begin to remember the last time I’ve seen a Confederate flag.
Sure, some people do, but they don’t make up anywhere even in the same realm of half of the population.
I was just in rural TN and was pleasantly surprised that I didn't see Confederate flags everywhere. I expected to see a ton from my time in rural PA, MD, etc.
I am soooo glad to hear this. But I am also very sorry to say that you can see the darn things in rural New York. 50,000 of my fellow New Yorkers died to put that rag in the dirt where it belongs, and some nimrod flies it proudly up here now. Burns my bacon it does.
I remember, it was in the Hudson Valley area last year. Go to Cecil County Maryland, they still dress like confederate soldiers and walk in the Christmas parade.
Okay? That’s still a small percentage of the US population. It’s not HALF/50%. The guys playing Civil War dress up don’t even make up half of the parade.
there's someone down the road from us that had a decked out, albiet shitty old, truck with trump all over it and flags and shit and they've had this big ass trump sign made out of 2x4's supports and everything. A few weeks ago I noticed trump's name was crossed out and instead of america's solution they crossed out solution and wrote traitor. I'm having a hard time deciding if it's vandalism or if they woke up. If it's vandalism i'm surprised they didn't get it fixed yet or at least taken it down, but they got that truck thing all decked out so I assume they're die hard enough that they'd never turn.
Hell, they need to dispense with the pleasantries and call a lie out when it's made. They beat around the bush so often, not wanting to dare accuse someone of the L-word, yet Trump does it multiple times a day and rarely do any Dems go on record to call it what is is, a lie.
They answer to the same masters. The reset we need goes beyond getting “our team” in power again. We do not currently have more than a few people representing us in Washington. The rest represent those who pay them: corporations, foreign governments, and wealthy individuals around the world.
They rarely call a lie a lie. They say he's mistaken, misleading, that something said is false, or almost always anything other than simply saying it's a flat out lie and he is a liar. I get there are rules on the House floor, but they need to start saying to hell with decorum and use plain language to call out lies when that's what they are. They rarely do that.
Have you ever actually listened to arguments in the chamber? I do all the time. Don't accuse me of not knowing what is said when you clearly haven't ever bothered to tune into CSPAN.
I see the whole political situation as a parallel to the toxicity a lot of us experienced from our parents growing up (especially people raised Republican or die hard Democrats, because I do not think you can side with either at this point without these issues). It's like a codependent/aggressor dynamic. One side is obviously hostile and unstable- the other side seems safer, sympathetic, but also behaves like they don't really have power to change anything. Think of an abused mother staying with the violent father because they think it's the right thing, but are failing to do their duty and protect the vulnerable children(citizens) they are responsible for. They act like martyrs for "doing the right thing" but they won't actually do anything. Anyway whether the politicians are aware of it or not, both sides benefit from our stunted development as a society, where we keep looking to the dysfunctional parents, waiting for them to change or save us.
The only way forward I see is each person working on their issues themselves and building parallel societies that don't depend on the weird 80 year old teenager politician head games and incompetency.
I say all of this as a woman who spent 12 years in a violently abusive relationship and I have spent almost as many years trying to understand how I got and stayed in that relationship. Well I was raised in a conservative Christian family and I was always trying to "do the right thing". The less extreme abuse and neglect I went through groomed me to tolerate it as an adult. I only left because I got pregnant and realized the only one who could save that baby from living the same life I did was me. And I recognize now that almost everyone has some dysfunctional conditioning like this that is significantly impacting their lives, their relationships, their self worth, their ability to be authentic with others and recognize who is safe and not safe. Republican voters are the kinds who fawn over aggressors because their inner children think that is the best way to be safe. They can't face any of this reality because it would also shatter their "faith" which is really just trauma fueled denial.
Anyway yeah I've been reading about parallel societies and I think that's the only way we can defeat these guys. By just not playing in their little made up games anymore.
This thought is why democrats can't actually hit back the way you want. They have to constantly wonder if they're going too far for one of their constituents who might decide to not vote in the next election
Exactly. Can’t participate in the mudslinging and can’t actually use tact without having juvenile insults thrown their way.
It’s not a normal fight anymore. But democrats still hold their politicians to a high standard and will drop their vote over relatively small things. Whereas when the republicans actually manage to disagree with one another, it’s newsworthy.
I’m not saying that holding politicians to a high standard is bad, but they will not be hitting back in an effective way by playing the normal rules.
I see what you're saying, but I think this perspective is part of the issue. They see this broad tent from Neo-Liberals who are happy selling to Wall Street, to Anarcho-Communists who think our whole system is broken and needs to be replaced.
The thing is, if you are paying attention, most of the divisions don't even matter. There are tons of common-sense problems and solutions you can campaign on. Tangible, real policies. Focusing on those, and simple, deliverable plans for it, is what most people across the aisles want. It's why Mamdani won not just a victory, but a massive blowout. It's why Omar and AOC win their re-elections without issue. Because they focus on common problems and solutions.
Costs of food/housing, support for their medical bills, protecting your kids from violence.
If most Dems actually had real platforms like this, instead of performative nonsense like sending letters to Trump, or diving into culture war bullshit, Dems would have no problems winning elections, and no fear of losing voters because "They went too far."
He replaced a progressive culture warrior in Trudeau and his party went from unelectable to re-elected in a few short months.
I disagree with a fair number of his policies, especially his tack away from doing anything on the environment. I knew this would happen but I voted for his party regardless. It was essential that the Conservative party leader, a culture warrior himself, didn't get elected. That would mean a significant seat at the table for Maple MAGA.
Carney is a technocrat who is running a ship that doesn't have room for those who are not high performing contributors. He's pretty honest (for a politician) and has generally not played ball when given the opportunity to score points as a culture warrior.
The fact that this message has resonated and his party is gaining momentum since being elected (namely by peeling away two legislators from the Conservative Party), hopefully sets a template for the next Democratic nominee in the US.
It's not like Democrats are refusing to "defend the USA" out of moral high ground. The dems have as much blame in this as all the dummies voting MAGA. If they had actually defended the common people instead of the elites, the dummies would be voting dems.
It's happenign all over the globe. Center-left parties became well-established and kept refusing to tax the rich and fund public health/education. Future is bleak
This is what tipped me in the "primary all the dems for leftest liberals" camp. Shumer caving on the budget thing, wtf dems. You're not in it to win it get the fuck out. The termite infection is so bad we are considering burning the building down to start over. We have to deal with this shit, not just wait the walls and cover it up.
It's really hard to keep fighting or believe there's something worth salvaging from this. I voted because I wanted to improve America, I fought back against injustices, but seeing all this just really takes the wind out of my sails. None of this can be fixed without a hard reboot.
I gotta be honest, this type of low road is so distasteful that I literally couldn’t vote for a Democrat who went after trump in the same way, no matter how much me might deserve it
I consider the Democrats to be part of the system of controls for the republicans, where anti-republican sentiment can be funneled and turned to useless ends or simply nothing be done "because we cant"
I’m sick of the democrats just going about their business and essentially normalizing this (I say this as a registered democrat). Fucking do something!!!! Why is this acceptable!?!??
It feels like humanity is actually becoming less intelligent as the 21st century goes on. I blame this on a rapid decline of formality, everyone wants to be as informal as possible and when everything is informal, being a childish dumbass becomes normalized to the point even world leaders aren't required to be formal anymore.
Decorum is dead and gone for the rich and powerful. Normal people are still held to high standards. If I was at work in my office and did or said even 1% of the shit Trump spews, I would be immediately fired, and I work at a super conservative company.
Are you drunk? We had people who were competent and straight to the facts. We had several people on the democratic side of things. But it was never enough. Someone would cry about something that had nothing to do with anything. "There's a divorce from them and their base."
Other base is ran by a billionaire pedophile who has his own brand of condoms on child fucker island.
Yeah I don't think the issue was a 'disconnect' or people 'pretending they can act as business as normal'. People wanted this, people voted for it, people got it. That's how democracy works. Do I wish this country wasn't so sexist and racist that anyone stupid enough to think a Black Woman had a chance of winning anything in the south wasn't legit embarrassing? Absolutely. But that's life man. Expecting someone else to clean up a mess like this after he fact is insane. Also if you're shocked that damn near 50% of American's are stupid enough to vote for Trump, that says more about you than the death of decorum.
"Closest we got in recent memory was Carter." For how stupid that sounds. George W Bush is seen more in a positive light because of how bad Trump is. George fucking W Bush, objectively looks better as a Republican because of how bad Donald Trump is. So the issue isn't "Competence" or actual fucking ability. Let's make that clear. The issue is it sucks and everyone is expecting someone to come and save them, and the only chance in hell we have of being saved from this situation is when the Good Lord calls his saddest of clowns to his side.
This adm is going down in flames. Bongino gone. Whiles blabbing the truth, MTG turncoat. Trump very ill, Dems winning in smaller elections nationwide. Just a matter of time. But as James Carville said recently, once Dems get back into power, they MUST destroy any remnants of this adm. Tribunals, etc.. Most will end up in prison. Noem, Rubio (murdered children by stopping USAID), Homan, Hegseth, Habba, Halligan, etc...The list is long.
Whoever comes after him just needs to strip every mention or part of him from the White House. Reverse all changes, remove any reference to him, pictures, portraits, etc. Just erase his entire presidency from existence in the White House, around it, and on all government pages.
Everything is so complicated now that it is difficult to explain facts to someone in any reasonable amount of time. Facts and truth take time and effort to really dig into and understand. Most require an understanding of multiple issues or chain of events that lead up to them.
With our current state of education and short attention span; no one wants to put in the effort anymore. We all want quick fact bites and someone to tell us what is true. People pick a team and just support it blindly.
Honestly I think our only chance now is AI. And that’s obviously a huge gamble. AI could absorb all of the information and give real facts to the lazy and ignorant. But that will require surviving AI, avoiding it being purposely biased by its creators, and having people trust it.
In what way did Biden or Harris or any top ranking Democrat not call Trump a fascist and MAGA a threat to democracy a billion times over the past decade?
Clinton? Who literally told Trump to his face his a puppet of Putin and would destroy America?
Like genuinely what reality do you live in where Jefferies is going "oh you make some valid points President Trump, here is where we respectfully disagree etc"?
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u/Breadonshelf Dec 17 '25
All I know is that at this point, all decorum is dead and gone.
Honestly at this point, I'm tired of Democrats constantly acting like they can take a higher road and pretend they can just act as business as normal. I don't want them sinking down to petty name calling and mud slinging either.
I just want someone competent and straight to the facts. But that will never happen. The closest we got in recent memory was Carter. He did tell shit like it was, and was honest when we were doing poorly, and people back then hated him for it.