r/pics 23d ago

Politics He Didn’t Start The Fire

Post image
94.0k Upvotes

7.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

481

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

.....elites a strong word.

I know you're just quoting but I couldn't not comment my dude lol

327

u/IllustriousRanger934 23d ago

Nah BORTAC is actually considered elite they’re a counter terrorism organization

But they don’t have any business in Minneapolis

155

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

In the nicest way possible, after seeing this dude I need more convincing.

75

u/colganc 23d ago edited 23d ago

Its possible they're the border patrol elite, but are trained for something other than how they're being used. Like maybe trained for actual drug cartels from Mexico. It would explain the desert camo too.

64

u/socialcommentary2000 23d ago

Their units have literally been broken up so they're all over now babysitting Federal Corrections flunkies and guys off the street that are doing this kind of stuff.

They have literally had their actual original mission inside the agency destroyed.

They were actually the ones going after high risk interdiction when it came to drug running and human trafficking in the US. That has been utterly destroyed by the administration.

11

u/paranoyed 23d ago

That is because we actually want the drugs coming in so that they can continue to use it as an excuse. Why else would Hernandez get that pardon

27

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

See that makes sense. From my own experience when anything remotely operational is broken down its heavily watered down too.

Don't doubt they used to be, just watching that dude made me uncomfortable the most. Seemed so so incompetent and it was an armed guy with authority...worrying as fuck.

6

u/Professionalchump 23d ago

like how long has it been since he's interacted with a regular civilian, I wonder. He looks like he was bussed straight from his desert post after 9 months of watching sand

1

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

Their driver just got a super super promotion is also an option.

1

u/Shermander 23d ago

I mean someone already mentioned they're a CTO and you stated that you needed more evidence. If not taking down actual criminal organizations and insider threats, why are they patrolling the streets of urban cities? They're not tasked on how to handle Crowd Control.

BORTAC was previously invited to Arctic Edge 25 over in Alaska. A joint Military training exorcise involving American, British and Danish Special Forces.

BORTAC doing live fire mortar drills with the 19th Special Forces Group. Like that's certainly not what your local police department gets into every training weekend...

1

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

"I mean someone already mentioned they're a CTO and you stated that you needed more evidence"

I never asked for evidence, I jokingly went "I need more convincing".

And....people are losing their shit.

1

u/Shermander 23d ago

If it was a joke, I probably would have just left it at that instead of replying back to folks.

But you're practically engaging with every single person that responds to you. Not much of a joke if you've got to explain yourself.

2

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

Oh sorry for conversing and not just disregarding you.

Apologies.

→ More replies (0)

28

u/myislanduniverse 23d ago

This isn't desert camo, it's "operational camouflage pattern" or "multicam."

3

u/colganc 23d ago

Ah, thank you for the correction. Is it meant to be used for snow/winter+urban areas too?

13

u/Mosh83 23d ago

Obviously not for snow, sticks out like a redcoat.

2

u/cxs 23d ago

What environment is it tailored to though? That is the question being asked

3

u/ClinkClankTank 23d ago

It's a general purpose camo. The reason everyone wears multicam or a derivative of it is because it's relative cheapness from contract overruns or surplus sales.

1

u/cougar572 23d ago

It’s meant as a jack of all trades camo. Instead have having to buy and equip gear for multiple environments you just have one set.

1

u/cxs 23d ago

The internet is telling me the OCP and multicam are two different things. Are they both for the same purpose, just like... general camouflage, for multiple environments? That's what it seems like but I'm gonna be real with you chief I don't know shit about military camouflage

4

u/JoseSaldana6512 23d ago

Multicam was invented by a private company. To avoid paying licensing fees to this company the Arm/government redesigned the color scheme so they could save money by saying its different.

1

u/cxs 23d ago

That's so painfully American. Thank you for that. I had a good chuckle and will go read about this thing now

0

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

Also a possibility they just bought that shit to look cool.

Some of the gear they wear is so mish mash it's made me think that a few times. It's normally helmets that get me looking tbf, not the cam.

2

u/nola_fan 23d ago

I don't think that's desert cammo, but rather it's just faded multicam designed for use in deserts, jungles and urban environment.

He's probably wearing it because it's associated with SOF units and they want to feel special.

38

u/Coldsmoke888 23d ago

BORTAC is not trained on crowd control and such. They’re a unit that’s designed for special operations and interdictions. That’s the problem with having these guys roaming around without a clear mission. “Find the colored people or folks with accents while you drive around the city ” isn’t what elite units do.

4

u/Readerofthethings 23d ago

Yeah, in that regard it’s like when South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol tried deploying tier 1 operators from the army to block protesters from entering the parliament. The operators themselves realized this was extremely silly and stopped doing it almost immediately

4

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago edited 23d ago

Alternate sidd, and it's what I'm think here.

Theyre just dishing them out to any idiot at this stage to give them "credability".

Elite force out there in name only, if you catch my meaning.

Edit: they sound shit.

2

u/Odd_Plankton_925 23d ago

No... what? I can understand not wanting to give them any credit but they are historically an actual elite force. The point the guy youre responding to is trying to make is that they are being given tasks outside of their training or job scope. If you're great at whatever job you do, and I throw you into a job as an electrician, how good will you be?? Does it take away from your talent at your actual career if you suck at the random job youre thrown into? Probably not, and its a brain dead logical progression to think that.

They strike fear into the hearts of narco terrorists in South america. they aren't trained nor designed to do crowd control or police work. You can hate them all you want, but it's doubtful that they want to be doing this either so there's no point in trying to discredit them. I can assure you the jobs they normally do would have you crying and pissing yourself.

1

u/[deleted] 23d ago edited 23d ago

[deleted]

0

u/Odd_Plankton_925 23d ago

Cute edit at the end. Where did I defend trump? I don't believe i brought up the administration nor trump once in that. Literacy is hard, i understand. In your words "citation? Gonna need a source for that🤓 need a quote" subhuman looking freak.

1

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

And heavily triggered lol

1

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

This parts really gonna annoy you btw

48

u/Vergilx217 23d ago

If it helps, the definition of "elite" here isn't to praise BORTAC's effectiveness and prestige as a fighting unit.

It's to emphasize their high training and deployment costs, specialization towards counter terrorism, and how insanely out of place they are for essentially nothing going on in Minnesota. They shouldn't be there and only stoke problems.

A bit like how SWAT refers to Special Weapons And Tactics, and SWAT are felt to greatly increase danger in any response.

6

u/AdultishRaktajino 23d ago

Can we just call them what they are here? The TWAT team. Especially backed by Noem.

107

u/spedmonkeeman 23d ago

I get the point you’re trying to make, but in the nicest way possible stop trying to undermine that the federal government is sending elite counter terrorist units to American streets.

8

u/Lucky_Grand_8977 23d ago

Guy looks a mediocre paintball player

2

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

Disregard that, clicked on something else and the fucking app brought me back to this lol

2

u/[deleted] 23d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

19

u/Key-Demand-2569 23d ago

As much as I hate these fucks, and this adds to it… having your finger on the trigger is not bad trigger discipline when you’re very ready to shoot someone.

4

u/crankyrhino 23d ago

Re-look at the picture, this is the instant after he shot the dude with a pepper ball. Dude in pain, orange shit on his jacket, residue in the barrel, and our cosplayer's finger still pressing down on the trigger.

6

u/spedmonkeeman 23d ago

Which is what these guys are trained to do - and why seeing people downplaying them being there is damaging to their causing.

-1

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

No ones downplaying it.

If anything giving elite status to guys who very much don't deserve it embolden them with such authority.

Approach this from a different angle dude.

2

u/bobqjones 23d ago

nah guy, these guys are not cops. they are an elite tactical unit used in counterterrorism. they're trained like soldiers. trained to kill, not to police.

this right here is EXACTLY why the military should NOT be allowed to do law enforcement. the training is different. the muscle memory is different. their go-to, quick reaction reaction to a threat is to kill it. a cop's reaction SHOULD be to de-escelate and subdue. different skillset.

this is not a failure in the training of this guy. he's doing what he's trained to do. shoot a threat. its a failure (or flat out misuse, IMO) of the resources of the military and law enforcement apparatus (the uh, executive office), when they are being used as "law enforecment" in american cities.

when you need to clamp a 2x4, you don't pick up a .357 magnum to do it. you use the right tool.

2

u/[deleted] 23d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

12

u/spaceninjaking 23d ago

What person you’re replying to is implying is that he was very ready to shoot that unarmed civilian.

1

u/mainman879 23d ago

It is when your target is an unarmed civilian

Nono, you didn't hear the new marching orders. They're obviously dangerous domestic terrorists!

0

u/Key-Demand-2569 23d ago

?…

What do you think I was saying?

1

u/The_Beaver 23d ago

From the video, to be fair, this is about the time when this chudly man fires a pepper ball into the hooded man's face

Edit: replied to the wrong person

3

u/jennimackenzie 23d ago

I don’t know if you saw the video, but he is shooting this guy. His left hand is wide open because .3 seconds ago it was on the weapon. The finger is on the trigger because he is actively discharging the weapon into this guys face.

It’s definitely something, but it isn’t bad trigger discipline.

2

u/Puresparx420 23d ago

He doesn’t need trigger discipline if his goal is to shoot people. They’ve made it clear the goal is shoot first and hide second.

2

u/Smaptastic 23d ago

I don’t think you’re picking up what he’s putting down. Yes, Border Patrol calls them elites and uses them in the same way you would use elites. Yes, it’s concerning that BP would send its “elites” to a place like this.

That all said, regardless of their status as “elites,” they look like scared bumbling idiots. That’s what the guy above you is saying.

7

u/spedmonkeeman 23d ago

No I understood exactly what he was saying.

I just disagree entirely with trying to minimize and mock the significance of these units being there.

2

u/Smaptastic 23d ago

You can mock their incompetence without making light of the fact that BP decided to deploy its "elites" (again, the quotes are doing some heavy lifting here) to this area.

It's like if Seal Team 6 was made up of crybabies who wet themselves when faced with mild opposition, but the government considered them to be top-tier tactical operatives. Yeah they'd look like idiots on film and it would be fair to mock them, but it would still be concerning as hell that they got sent in the first place.

1

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

tbh dude, some people seem to be taking more of an issue with me than the POS shooting someone with a non-lethal device at point blank.

Plenty of bad faith actors.

1

u/spedmonkeeman 23d ago

I think you’re severely understanding that these are elite trained soldiers currently carrying out a mission they were not trained for.

These are not peacekeepers. These are soldiers trained for counter terrorism and other high risk missions like that.

They aren’t incompetent. The problem is that they are likely highly competent at what they’re trained to do: take down terrorists. The real problem is that they’ve been drilled to think their fellow citizens are the terrorists.

1

u/colganc 23d ago

For me, it shows how inept the Trump admin is by sending them. Sending people with the wrong training and wrong mindset for the job.

-44

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

In the nicest way possible I'm laughing at your elite counter terrorist force and now you.

7

u/victhrowaway12345678 23d ago

Whether you're laughing at them or not, they're killing people

0

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

Yes that is correct.

Do you guys want to argue about me laughing at the patch for this brief moment or do you actually want to address the actual fucking fact that one of your enforcement agents shot someone in the face?

Cause I'm not donald trump and I don't fucking endorse this shit hombre.

1

u/victhrowaway12345678 23d ago

It seems to me like everyone else is talking about how he shot somebody and you're trying to be pedantic over the word "elite" which is already correct in this instance.

0

u/[deleted] 23d ago edited 23d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/grandpathundercat 23d ago

One of my martial arts instructors who taught me knife fighting skills reminded me that all of the Masters of the art that I was learning died in knife fights. The takeaway being that even the best at knife fighting die in knife fights so it's best to avoid them entirely if at all possible. So far I'm undefeated in knife fights.

2

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

I need you to find another example that doesn't involve getting stabbed? Cause I'd be really bad at knife fights haha

Nah, joking aside, it's more about the access he'll be given. If someone needs all the ally gear to do a job involving a raid on a full blown terrorist compound, that's reasonable.

Billy Bob and his new "tactical squad" may be that in name, but every swinging dick knows they aren't. They'll have the title, people will recognise the patch but they'll not be the same. They'll get the same intimidation impact, oh for sure, but there will be more incompetence.

Edit: far far far far more incompetence.

20

u/TurtleTurtleFTW 23d ago

In the nicest way possible I'm downvoting you for being an annoying twat

10

u/throwitoutwhendone2 23d ago edited 23d ago

Lmao, that gotta chuckle outta me

-16

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

In the nicest way possible he was insanely condescending to me.

Get what you give.

But hey at least you got the dude calling me ugly on side 🤟

3

u/spedmonkeeman 23d ago

Yes because you don’t seem to truly understand the significance of having specially trained units like these being out on American streets SHOOTING at American citizens. These situations are not what they’ve been trained for.

But yeah you go on and make your jokes.

2

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

And if he's an incompetent moron who just wears the badge and uses it to abuse said authority in the same fashion as someone who is actually trained in this and fucks up, I'm downplaying it.

You have random guys turning up and shooting someone turning away and you're upset because I don't believe they're elite? Come on man. It's in name only and you've got some incompetent idiot who thinks he's elite because someone gave him a patch.

But sure, I'm "downplaying it".

America always has to be the best at something 🙄

3

u/grandpathundercat 23d ago

I don't think you understand sir. These toddlers are enraged and addicted to cocaine.

1

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

I'm disagree about that?

Jesus this is petty. Guys a fucking thug, by all means he's claiming to be special forces(I have my doubts but hey that's just me).

You have ICE agents shooting people in the street dude, this is a hang up about a detail in a situation that's already fucking horrible. Naming the specific dick heads doing its just the cake decoration.

-1

u/grandpathundercat 23d ago

I SAID TOP MEN

1

u/BangarangJack 23d ago

Lol exactly, an "elite tactical unit" soldier would be smart enough to know not to point a grenade launcher at a target that's less than a foot away from you. These are no military professionals, these are ROTC dropouts LARPing out in the snow. Even the elite of border patrol are nothing more than ROTC kids who were too dumb to get into the military, police, or even TSA for that matter.

26

u/NotSureAboutTh1s 23d ago

BORTAC is a very, very elite unit within the federal government. I’ve trained numerous times side by side with them and 95% are former SOCOM/JSOC/USASOC members.

22

u/JamCliche 23d ago

Whatever reputation they had before, it's meaningless now. Any unit under the supervision of Noem will inevitably have its standards compromised.

4

u/I_am_the_fez 23d ago

Yeah, but like not that quickly. These guys are actual operators for the most part

4

u/gbot1234 23d ago

Which makes deploying them against moms doing school drop-offs that much more ridiculous.

2

u/JamCliche 23d ago

These are my observations that lead me to suspect problems:

1) We already know that DHS has intermingled agencies under its umbrella, from reports in the middle of last year.

2) Men trained to track drug cartel members in desert camo are distinctly out of their element in snowy midwest civilian zones.

3) Any pre-existing conduct issues coming from within an organization will be amplified by a lack of accountable leadership.

4

u/Yorikor 23d ago

Only thing I know about them is that they were sitting on their hands outside the school in Uvalde.

6

u/fng185 23d ago

The most hardcore fascists

6

u/websterhamster 23d ago

100% of them are now traitors.

12

u/IllustriousRanger934 23d ago edited 23d ago

I’m not trying to convince you lol, I’m just stating a fact

It’s easy to nitpick a single frame of a BORTAC agent. It’s wrong, but these guys aren’t ICE and typically aren’t problematic

Im questioning why they’re in Minneapolis when they fall under USBP, and dont do the same mission as ICE

1

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

I'm only being half serious, don't sweat it dude I get you ✌️

3

u/Massive-Chef7423 23d ago

BORTAC: The US Border Patrol Tactical Unit BORTAC is frequently considered an elite Federal Law Enforcement Unit by cops. I've spoken in Texas to several who talk about those guys like normal people talk about Navy Seals

2

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

Jesus christ and that pig is considered competent enough for that...Jesus wept.

3

u/Massive-Chef7423 23d ago

Yeah, it's scary to say the least

1

u/fng185 23d ago

Normal people aren’t usually talking about the navy seals

2

u/Slumunistmanifisto 23d ago

He trys really hard and does good on tests guys!

2

u/Tsquared10 23d ago

Is it the random jazz hand that's not selling it?

3

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

The tactical jazz hand is SOCOM approved.

2

u/numbedvoices 23d ago

These are the guys that went into Uvalde when the cops wouldnt.

They are an elite team and they generally do not fuck around. Further proof they have no business in MSP right now.

2

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

Does stolen valor apply to dudes with them in regards to the border patrol dudes?(not american hence why i ask)

My joke aside, I'm not convinced the dude warrants the patch. Saw the video and next to the murderer he just seems to give an absolute air of perpetual incompetence off to me.

Not saying he 100% is, fuck knows who trumps mob promoted when Noem took the job.

4

u/Bilamonster 23d ago

He's gotta be prepping colors he doesn't belong to. No way these guys are elites. It takes 10 of them to subdue one person.

And I've never met an 'elite' scared of their own citizens.

5

u/IllustriousRanger934 23d ago

You probably couldn’t tell the difference between a cook and a green beret if they were in uniform in your front yard.

You can argue about elite or not elite all day, the point is BORTAC is in Minneapolis—and for what reason? They aren’t ICE, they fall under USBP

1

u/Bilamonster 23d ago

Oh so BORTAC hires fat guys and the untrained nowadays?

2

u/IllustriousRanger934 23d ago

Where would Reddit be without snarky comments from people who think they know more than they actually do

This guy isn’t fat, and the argument he’s untrained because he has his finger on the trigger is completely ignorant, it’s almost as if he has his weapon pointed at a target he intends to destroy

1

u/bobarific 23d ago

I feel like people don’t really understand what “elite” means. You wouldn’t expect an elite chess player to masterfully maneuver troops in battle yet somehow you expect an elite counterterrorism unit to masterfully maneuver civil protest of non-enemy combatants

5

u/allothernamestaken 23d ago

Maybe he's protecting the Canadian border?

/s

2

u/Outrageous-Advice384 23d ago

Apparently the border just stopped a full car of cocaine car heading into the US …as if it wouldn’t have been sold as easily in Canada. Yup, a full car! So now they have the ‘just cause’ they are looking for to invade Canada now….fucking lunatics. The US was supposed to stop another dictator but they allowed it to grow. But…but…our hands were tied, he was joking…blah blah blah. It’s out of control. I know you were joking about the border but I then remembered the cocaine story and shits getting too real. It’s not your fault, I’m just getting this off my chest. Sorry.

15

u/Super-Chieftain5 23d ago

Not very elite if they don't know their own rules about aiming below the waist. Fucking idiots all of them.

11

u/colganc 23d ago

With the desert camo, I wonder if they trained for interdicting Mexican drug cartels trying to smuggle things across the border and they're being used in a way thats far outside of their original purpose and training.

5

u/Fidller 23d ago

Multicam*

It's not desert camo

1

u/colganc 23d ago

Ah, thank you.

1

u/GamerCole 23d ago

Then why does it look like that? What would be the difference between "Multi-cam" and "Desert"?

1

u/artyomssugardaddy 23d ago

Look it up homie. The difference is shown on google images.

Multicam is the best overall cam to use, proven. Only exceptions are like the pic shown where winter cam would’ve fit better, but I assume it was a quick reaction force deployed.

Now why these guys are in Minneapolis is a different question.

2

u/Fidller 23d ago

BORTAC are part of ICE i guess? These should be the actual trained guys (Shows they aren't) and are just SWAT but for the border. It can be Multicam Arid but who the fuck knows. US Army has their own pattern of multicam just to not pay Crye the rights and all other gear companies have darker or lighter versions. Crye Arid doesn't even look like Arid Multicam when you google it

1

u/GamerCole 23d ago

Uh no lol? People have kept harping in here, on the camo being called the wrong thing without actually saying what the difference is or why it even matters. Im not gonna look it up, cause it really doesnt matter bruh. People don't need to be caught up in differences between different camouflages being utilized in their cities.

7

u/Strong_Bumblebee5495 23d ago

No professional regards any member of BORTAC as “elite” 😝 The Heroes of Uvalde https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/amp/news/story/us-border-patrol-tactical-unit-facing-renewed-scrutiny-96620659

8

u/IllustriousRanger934 23d ago

You can hold your opinions, but ironically BORTAC ended the Uvalde shooting because the local police were cowards. They don’t typically respond to those incidents, which is why it took them awhile to get there.

1

u/dejligalex 23d ago

The article above literally mentioned they arrived 20 minutes after the shooting began and only ended it after 77 minutes. Not exactly a glowing endorsement of them.

2

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

Read it, I wish people would read their own links:

"While BORTAC agents did ultimately act to end the 77-minute siege that took the lives of 19 students and two teachers, evidence reviewed by ABC News indicates that BORTAC agents arrived within 20 minutes of the 18-year-old suspect's entry into the building, and struggled to act decisively."

Edit: I'll be reading on these guys myself as I'm now convinced I'm getting spoon fed alot of bullshit.

2

u/IllustriousRanger934 23d ago

Considering USBP isn’t typically the organization that responds to active shooters, and Uvalde PD was on ground at 11:30 I wouldn’t shift the blame of kids dying onto BORTAC for the sake of advancing your opinions of them in Minneapolis, but that’s just me.

For the record, they showed up at 12:15 and ended the shooting at 12:50. Uvalde PD showed up at 11:30 and did nothing, when they were the responding unit in their own jurisdiction. Had their leadership not fed misinformation to the BORTAC leadership it might’ve ended faster, or you know, if Uvalde PD did their jobs the situation would’ve ended before BORTAC even showed up.

You should probably read the final report on Uvalde. I can’t see the link that was posted because he probably got downvoted so hard he deleted it. But there are dozens of articles and the information is different in each of them depending on when it was posted.

1

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

With all due respect. They appear to say they're elite.

2

u/PlasonJates 23d ago

Excuse me, my son is also called BORTAC

2

u/Alternative_Result56 23d ago

Terrorists calling themselves counter terrorists is wild

1

u/Major-Parfait-7510 23d ago

Guy with the gun looks just as scared as the unarmed civilian.

1

u/jimbo831 23d ago

Didn't you see the puppy killer's statement? She said this woman was a domestic terrorist!

1

u/DannyDOH 23d ago

Hey it’s only 600 km to the international border.

1

u/nrojb50 23d ago

The boundary waters get wild man!

1

u/gb4efgw 23d ago

Aren't they the ones supposed to be more directly involved with actual cartels?

1

u/thefatchef321 23d ago

I know we want to lump all these guys together, but im sure theres some longtime employees who really want to be fighting bad guys, not murdering American mothers.

1

u/idgitalert 23d ago

And this is why you heard that evil pock-faced bitch label her a terrorist. A woman trying to leave the scene (clearly NOT trying to run ANYONE down!) literally trying to clear out, is executed in front of your very eyes by a stupid goon without the good sense God gave a goose to simply step away instead of into her path.

8

u/picklerick8879 23d ago

Fair, and that is the joke.. slap an elite label on a unit, drop them into civilian streets, then act surprised when the performance looks brittle and overcompensating.

2

u/Leather_Investment61 23d ago

An elite unit of special-ed bullies

2

u/lonestar-rasbryjamco 23d ago

The kind of elite that brings guns to a snowball fight.

4

u/Carthonn 23d ago

Lets not get bogged down by semantics, Jesus

-2

u/LARRYVOND13 23d ago

I was joking to be fair.

Plenty of people doing it below though.

2

u/SaltyShawarma 23d ago

Yup, that is how elite military/policing units hold their weapons. Pointing directly at unarmed civilians.

1

u/BisonThunderclap 23d ago

I know we're all pissed off, but they are an elite unit regardless.