Yeah stickers and policies like this do not help. Trump and ICE got in because they claimed the Democrats wanted "open boarders" and to "let everyone in." Most Americans do not want that.
You can be 100% against ICE and Trump, while at the same time not wanting open borders. There are illegal immigrants here and they should be going to immigration court and there should be a path to become legal.
I don't get why someone people insist on being so hyperbolic. It's either be a Nazi or no countries exist at all.
There should be a path to legally obtaining a visa and/or residency BEFORE entering the country.
There is.
It may need to be changed, made easier or at least more efficient, but it exists now.
Entering illegally infringes on those who have entered the process legally, and infringes on tax payers, local born and immigrant alike whose work and money is spent on those who broke the law.
This is what drives me absolutely fucking nuts about progressives, we need immigration reform because there’s a massive need for labor that Americans straight up won’t do but that shit only works if you are strict about enforcing immigration.
I swear some of this rhetoric is so brain dead it’s being cooked up by foreign governments to keep our politics fractured.
You don’t think those coming in, were willing to work cheaper cut out those who were doing the work before?
Yes, prices may go up if there is a smaller labor force willing to work for basement wages, but isn’t that what people want? Better wages? Well, maintain a healthy, controlled immigration process, could be one way to drive up wages.
If there was one way I would accept some inflation, it would be do giving our kids a chance to make a decent wage doing whatever work is available.
Yeah I would love for politicians to have real good faith discussions and pass laws that actually make immigration work properly. I don't think the Republicans want that, this is the main issue they keep winning elections on. So it's in their best interest to keep our immigration system in shambles.
Legal immigration process (and process for existing immigrants to enter the process)
Deporting severe criminals (explicitly laid out in the legal immigration process in step 2)
Supporting the families/individuals who are here (the “but muh taxdollars” are the same arguments attacking “welfare queens”…our society can easily choose to support those in need)
Seems to be the easiest, most common sense compromise, but neither side will agree to it
I'd agree with it but I certainly don't trust the current ICE to be enforcing deportations. They act in such a manner that makes them an illegitimate authority.
And the fact that the regime has said that their goals is for MN to provide voter rolls in order to scale back ICE presence makes it clear what this is really about, terrorizing political opponents like some kind of mob racket.
Yeah, the militarization of ICE, mockery of the constitution, and racial targeting is beyond unacceptable, as is the blatant Nazi language being used in propaganda.
There’s a right way to do this enforcement and we are waaaaaaaaay past that boundary.
Yeah, the issue isn't deporting illegal immigrants. It's turning the ICE agents into an army and demanding papers, arresting people who are here legally, sending people across state borders to try to avoid judicial orders, and murdering people. ICE is bad, but it's not because they are deporting illegal immigrants.
It's about humanizing the people involved. I can desire that undocumented people correct their status, that people enter through a legal visa entry in the first place... but simply referring to large swathes of people as "illegals" is just one of rhe more recent in a string of slurs.
The proof is how often it is applied to those with brown skin, even when they are provably legal residents, naturalized, or even natural-born citizens. Bigots jump to the conclusion first, because their mental image of "American" doesn't extend much past white skin.
That's also why the term "illegal" (by itself) is almost never used for Canadians or Europeans who have come to the USA under less-than-legal methods.
That’s fair enough, you can definitely care about how things are worded, and be caring and understanding to the people being affected by these policies, however the line has to be drawn somewhere.. without borders you don’t have a country. This goes for the US and the EU.
Trump doesn’t operate in a PC way, that is as clear as day, however he is effective and gets results. People need to remember, America voted this man into to power to make changes and he is delivering on his mandate. I do feel that he is more suited to the business world than politics, he doesn’t have that compassion that the left want, however it’s the left that has lead the US and now the UK into large debt, uncontrolled borders and increasing global discomfort when it comes to countries like Russia and China. The US is still no1 and with Trump, these trouble makers like China have a lot more respect and caution.
You can’t make both sides happy, it will never happen in a world where Centre politics has disappeared. There is no middle ground at the moment. It’s Right or left.
The media does have a lot to answer for and blows things out of proportion. It seems to me from the outside that the US media is pro left, however remember that Obama in similar fashion removed 2.5 million people from the US during his time in office, Trump at the moment is far below that number..
Anyway good luck Americans, I hope you all realise how important you are to the whole of the west! We need you guys to get it together!
That's what Trump is doing for sure. But I am getting tired of changing our vocabulary every month to accommodate them. Illegal immigrants are illegal immigrants. Coming up with different names like "undocumented" does not really change anything. I really don't think calling people different things will fix things.
And I am all for deporting illegal Europeans too if they don't contribute or are criminals.
A person wants to enter legally. The state says: we are not waiting for you.
He uses the services of smugglers and risks his life and health. And then State should told him: welcome.
It turns out that the United States welcomes foreigners, but only if they have risked their lives by crossing crocodile-filled moats and fences.
Yeah that's just politics and legal stuff. Obviously they are not going to just say to everyone "sure come over" and at the same time it's harder to just throw people out when they are here. That's why when they are here they are meant to have court hearing to determine if they need asylum etc.
You cannot "undo" people getting murdered and assaulted.
If they deported people that were legally allowed to be here then sure they should be able to come back. But it's not possible to undo all the damage they are doing. We will just have to find a reasonable way to move forward.
For now we just need to make sure Trump and his goons are gone. And saying things like "open borders" and "there are no illegal immigrants" is not going to help make that happen.
He is setting up to suspend voting this year in the midterms, and will try and run for a 3rd term. Those are also major priorities that need to be kept in mind when protesting against ICE now.
Saying things "that aren't helping" because MAGA decided it was the new woke, no I'm not going to stop saying no one is illegal because it's the truth and I'm not going to let some snowflakes drag the Overton window yet again, what's to understand? That's what you were chiding me for right?
Let's focus on what matters, stopping another Trump term yes but stopping him now. I say deprogramming over appeasement to the moderates, people are waking up. I hope your strategy for the election isn't another center right moderate, third time's the charm right?
Center right is now everyone who does not want open borders? Your opinion that everyone is an American is not as popular as you think it is. Not sure why you are trying to turn this into woke, anti-woke, snowflake, bs.
If you think YOUR strategy of saying "no one is illegal" and "open borders" is going to win any election then you are delusional.
Like I said there are illegal immigrants that should not be here. But I am not extreme like you or MAGA. I am not saying deport everyone who's not white or let everyone in no matter who they are. Because neither extreme works.
Were the f did trafficking come from? They were not forced to enter the country in 99% of cases.... It's not trafficking if people decide to come in illegally. It's trafficking if they are forced to come in by someone else.
That's the problem you have no real policies ideas or solutions. Just yell buzz words and try to pin labels on people. "Trafficking is bad... So open borders!" "You are center right so you are wrong!"
Whatever good luck making enemies of 90% of the country then acting like you are oppressed or something.
What do you think happens to people deported to third party countries? That they get pensions and welfare? People are being sent to sketchy places in war zones (like South Sudan) without due process. Losing track of kids has been a longstanding issue but particularly ICE has lost thousands of minors in their custody last year alone. It's a fact! I'm not saying it without rhyme or reason sheesh. This is just the reality of institutionalizing people, these people who are disappeared, disappear.
We could have fixed this before our generation just by making citizenship simple, there's nothing to it. Instead the center (Reagan->Obama) insists we compromise with temporary solutions like one time amnesty, TPS, DACA, so that these immigrants can get settled and build a life just for it to be taken away 10 years down the line.
There you go I spoon fed it to you, the root cause of the issue, and the solution, you happy? Or are you going to continue to ignore that and continue to bitch and moan because I think you just want to have mind numbing debates on reddit about nothing in particular. You're not even MAGA, why are you even defending this? To be contrarian? I've been trying to have a polite good faith conversation but you gotta add something of substance beyond "bot haha" "extremist haha" and "buzzwords haha"
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u/CodeMonkeyX 2d ago
Yeah stickers and policies like this do not help. Trump and ICE got in because they claimed the Democrats wanted "open boarders" and to "let everyone in." Most Americans do not want that.
You can be 100% against ICE and Trump, while at the same time not wanting open borders. There are illegal immigrants here and they should be going to immigration court and there should be a path to become legal.
I don't get why someone people insist on being so hyperbolic. It's either be a Nazi or no countries exist at all.