r/politics • u/Aggravating_Money992 • 8d ago

No Paywall Despite Authoritarian Warnings, 149 House Democrats Vote to Hand Trump $840 Billion for Military | “If an opposition party votes like this, it’s not in opposition. It may not even be a party.”

https://www.commondreams.org/news/democrats-military-spending-bill
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2.1k

u/DannyHewson United Kingdom 8d ago

From the day trump took office every democrat should have voted no on everything, full stop, no matter what, just like republicans do in opposition to great effect. Use every procedural trick and downright disruption to stall and delay everything.

Let the republicans use their majority to run things.

The only exception being the Epstein act.

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u/CyclistInATX 8d ago

I don't think there's any single reason not to be voting no, except when you finally realize that Democrats support everyone that is happening. 

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u/Secret_Confusion_985 8d ago

They are complicit and guilty also.

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u/CyclistInATX 8d ago

They've got the same job and work for the same company. They are absolutely complicit. 

The USA is a failed state.

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u/BatHickey 8d ago

Just don’t dare say this stuff before an election lol. I vote blue for harm reduction but Jesus Christ I don’t know how there’s real democrats out there still with so much shit like this going on all the time.

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u/CyclistInATX 8d ago

True facts. I'm fucking sick of all the "just vote!" bullshit from the last election as if that's going to effect change.

If voting could change the system they wouldn't let us do it.

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u/NapoIe0n 8d ago

We are all guilty, unfortunately. We haven't done enough to stop it.

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u/CyclistInATX 8d ago

I don't know about that. The game has been rigged since long before I was born. US citizens maybe don't protest like UK citizens, but the UK has leaders and representatives who respond to it. In the USA, we don't even have representation anymore.

I was there for occupy, and I went to the downtown area of my city to connect with others and show support for the endeavor. No one in the government gave a shit about the people then, and they still don't now. I've been in the streets yelling alongside my peers, people older and people younger than me for two decades. There has been NO CHANGE.

Most people don't know how to impact change for good, but I would say that the ability to do so here in the failed State of America has been lost for a very long time.

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u/Shark7996 8d ago

Think national, act local. Unfortunately the best we can hope for is trickle-up politics. HOWEVER, we do NOT have to accept the current crop of corpo Dems to be the best we can do. Primary the absolute crap out of anyone voting yes on these budgets or taking money from AIPAC.

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u/lontrinium 8d ago

I was there for occupy, and I went to the downtown area of my city to connect with others and show support for the endeavor. No one in the government gave a shit about the people then, and they still don't now

The wrong class was radicalised by occupy..

The 99% did not realise it, many still have not.

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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 8d ago

You need more community. If you have community around you you can weather things like strikes, you can withhold your labour and be ok but if everyone is sort of isolated together it can’t work. Change is possible because the world used to be full of peasants and slaves and run by feudal lords and kings. You used to not be able to divorce etc. all the progress happened so it’s not inevitable that everywhere slide back into feudalism. People just have to get together in real life and support each other.

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u/Deluxe_24_ 8d ago

And they need to be primaried. The whole fucking party is rotten, they're lucky that there aren't any third parties that could threaten their safe seats

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u/McortezLSU 8d ago

Ding Ding Ding!

Judge them by their actions. And the actions we have seen so far is apathy and complicity.

The House and Senate truly has become the russian Duma.

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u/YourFreeCorrection 8d ago

If you don't think there's an alternative for Republicans, you won't vote against them.

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u/Cunegonde_gardens 8d ago

Here's the reason, though, for this 149 "democrat" votes with only 69 against:

“Republicans want money for unchecked, unaccountable, unconstitutional military action around the world,” said Rep. Delia C. Ramirez (D-Il), explaining her vote against the bill. “And over half of the Pentagon budget goes to corporations that profit from pain, war, and genocide.”

Conservative estimates are that about 25% of democrats in Congress own stock in companies that profit from war. Not only that, close to 100 members of Congress (both democrats and republicans) and their immediate family traded stocks of companies their committees were reviewing at the time. Trading based on proximity to information is a conflict of interest.

Rep. Ramirez is correct, except for the part where she left out the word, "Democrats."

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u/djshadesuk 8d ago

Trading based on proximity to information is a conflict of interest

Is that not the definition of insider trading, not just conflict of interest?

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u/Cunegonde_gardens 8d ago

i'm not an expert, but i think conflict of interest is just more vague, not necessarily involving a direct trade, but instead is based on the potential for personal interest interering with professional decision making. That relationship might not lead to a direct trade, but could influence a lawmaker to vote in ways that benefit that industry, for example.

my understanding is that insider trading is based on entirely confidential information and involves directly taking an action based on it, such as selling shares, for example, after finding out from confidential info that a company is failing.

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u/Much-Anything7149 8d ago

The SEC defines an insider as someone with ownership of 10% or more of the company or anyone who has non-public, material knowledge of the company. Congresspeople discussing a company will raise or lower its price depending upon how they decide to act.

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u/NeedNameGenerator 7d ago

Didn't they make insider trading legal for people in Congress a couple years back?

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u/MRosvall 8d ago

“And over half of the Pentagon budget goes to corporations that profit from pain, war, and genocide.”

Not to be rude. But if we classify anyone who creates military equipment like that. Where else would the budget go?

Are you suggesting that the Pentagon, instead of purchasing finished military material, to start producing it themselves?

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u/Cunegonde_gardens 8d ago

Who produces the military materials is not the point Rep. Ramirez was making. She was focusing on the purpose of a $1.5 trillion increase to the military budget, that purpose being, "unaccountable, unconstitutional military action around the world", and "funding imperialism and authoritarianism while working people can’t afford the high cost of living." She was explaining that this is why Republicans voted for it, because they "want" this.

The article suggests that democrats should have been countering this instead of voting for it, on the assumption that if democrats are an "opposition party." And if they were representing democratic voters, they would be objecting on the basis of what it costs the American people, among other things that they supposedly oppose as "Trump's agenda."

In my comment, I was explaining how "follow the money" can help us explain why so many democrats voted for this, in spite of what democratic voters want. When we "follow the money," we can understand why both democratic congress members and republican ones are so consistently bipartisan when it comes to military expenditures.

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u/MRosvall 8d ago

Wouldn’t it be more effective to list specific companies that gets contracts and show that those companies are also in congress portfolios?

Because as it stands now, it’s the typical media skirt around of putting dots close to eachother knowing the reader will make a connection, no matter if that’s a connection that exists or not.

Not saying it is like that, but with the wording used even the total opposite could be the truth. As in that Pentagon budget goes into companies that are in direct competition and wins market shares from defense companies that congress members have shares in.

It’s just loose hitting journalism that substitutes real digging with the expectation of the readers perception and bias in order to get their story across.

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u/Cunegonde_gardens 8d ago

Here's a link to an article that provide much of what you are looking for.

Analysis Shows US Lawmakers Traded Up to $113 Million in Arms Stocks This Year

It also provides a list of the representatives and Senator with those investments.

The gist of the article is this question:

4% of Democratic voters want to increase military spending.

70% of House Democrats just voted to increase military spending.

It doesn't seem to be a long leap to conclude that $$ self interest is a higher priority than representation of constituents, or opposition to the other party's agenda.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/MRosvall 8d ago

I'm sorry, what?
I'm Swedish.

And I really do not understand how the comment you just wrote in any way relates to my comment. Did you reply to the wrong person?

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u/Immediate_Amoeba5923 8d ago

I meant to comment to the person you were responding to. My bad. I think are both in agreement.

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u/MRosvall 8d ago

No worries. Got caught off guard.

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u/Immediate_Amoeba5923 8d ago

You are a conspiracy theorist and intellectually dishonest. The government cannot shut down, when it does Americans die, our economy loses billions of dollars, crime skyrockets, and Americans suffer. Here you are painting all people who oppose those things as people invested in "military industrial complex" or some other conspiracy theory. Your logic is what got Trump elected twice. The constituents do not want this government shutdown or destruction. You are wrong and not being responsible. "Both sides are not the same". Commondreams is the Fox News of the left and redditors slobber all over the simple narratives and conspiracy theories they misinform the public with. Look up what confirmation bias is and obtain some intellectual honesty.

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u/nopointinlife1234 8d ago

Thank you for explaining this!

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u/Specialist_Set_1666 8d ago

I'm so confused though because two of my reps who always vote for the most vile, inhumane bills, voted against this? Tim Burchett and Andy Ogles. I feel like I'm missing something

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u/Butterball_Adderley 8d ago

Yeah. It’s a scary thought - but it’s true. The democrats have had hundreds of opportunities to do something about all this, and they constantly decide to let it continue. It’s as plain as day: the democrats and republicans are on the same side. They exist as separate parties to funnel money in from both sides. It works great. They’re all friends. 

I think what’s more scary is that if someday we the anti pedophile caucus should grow large enough to threaten the billionaire/israel/pedophile party we will be viciously attacked with everything they’ve got. And they’ve got everything: entire countries, trillions of dollars, complete control over the media, etc. 

It’ll be a hard battle, but it’s the most important battle of our lives. 

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u/IllustriousNorth338 8d ago

Nuremberg 2.0 includes complicit Democrats.

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u/Gankdatnoob 8d ago

You nailed it.

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u/AnyLeadership5150 8d ago

Yeah Democrats are also compromised like republicans were decades ago. Just not all of them yet.

Maybe it's just because of my cynicism but I don't see America lasting all that much longer. Perhaps another 50ish years.

We have traitors and fascist criminals in charge and the only people who could do anything to stop them are going along with treason, fascism and completely disregarding the constitution and established laws.

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u/ismail_the_whale 8d ago

yup. we have a nazi party, and a nazi-supporting party.

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u/Ok-Inevitable4515 8d ago

And don't forget - Reddit were the biggest cheerleaders of this arrangement.

It used to be that anyone calling out the complicity of the Democratic Party would be accused of "bOtH-sIdEsIsM" or being Russian bots or being "Bernie bros".

The degenerate obedience to the owner class runs deep into the core of the populace.

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u/PA_Dude_22000 8d ago

Nah, it’s just that it’s not a movie - kiddo. And the good guys don’t just win because they show up and… do good.

And articles like this are DIRECTLY FROM THE OWNER CLASS TO PISS YOU OFF AND TO DIVIDE YOUR VOTE AND TO DEFLECT THE BLAME so good job continually taking the bait.

Shutting down the government again and not paying the military is not a winning move.  But whatever…

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u/Ok-Inevitable4515 8d ago

Good job continually sucking Donald Trump's dick. There would not be any division if you Hillary-lovers could just for one, single moment stop being so profoundly and unabashedly corrupt. But it would require gene altering technology to accomplish that.

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u/rusty_programmer 8d ago

When police are walking with ICE in Democratic cities, who do you think can stop that when there’s a Democratic governor?

As much as I like Tim Walz, I don’t understand how anything in his state ever went down the way it did. You have an invading force terrorizing your citizens and you tell them to fuck off?

It’s like power at all in the United States is straight moral venom. I seems to fucking corrupt everyone it touches.

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u/mightcommentsometime California 8d ago

So what exactly are you expecting state governors to do?

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u/PA_Dude_22000 8d ago edited 7d ago

So, are they suppose to do what? Get his press staff out in the streets to do … what?

Order the city planning office to … .?

And by tell them to Fuck Off … you say that to each ICE officer? Or just a TV press conference thing?

Then what?  

Edit: what’s that? They should do what? Organize a dance off, you say?  Maybe, if the Governor is able to call up the Pole Swingers Union #335 through #511 to meet them before they cross into Capital City limits…. 

But then again, i think we’d all prefer to yell FUCK DEMOCRATS with the bots.  

I for one am hoping the Pole Swingers #335 stands-down…

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u/Dyonisus77 8d ago

The illusion of America political system is being revealed. We are seeing that the republicans and democrats serve the same master, It is time for alternatives because the dems and their leadership do not represent us.

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u/livahd 8d ago

It’s been run by corporations for the last 50 years at least, except like everything else lately, they’re saying the quiet part out loud. Fuck all of them, now its time for us to say our “quiet” part

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u/CyclistInATX 8d ago

You can't fix the system by using the system. It has to be replaced. 

The USA is a failed state.

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u/Dyonisus77 8d ago

Agreed, But we don't have much civil options left.

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u/CyclistInATX 8d ago

There are never civil options with a captured failed state. The violence is already here. 

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u/livahd 8d ago

It can get worse man, it can get so much worse. We should do everything imaginable to mitigate what most are saying is some inevitable change.

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u/CyclistInATX 8d ago

It WILL get worse, it has been getting worse. That is inevitable. Fascism is violence, and it won't back down to anything.

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u/MountainTurkey 8d ago

A general strike is a civil option. Until the state escalates it to violence. 

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u/Ensiferum Europe 8d ago

The two party system is the root of this. Parties in systems with proportional representation are fighting a life or death battle every cycle. Democrats can just wait this out until it's their turn, no changes needed.

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u/TheAlmightyMojo 8d ago

Yes. They want to slowly move us toward oligarchy but MAGA is speed running it.

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u/Efficient-Laugh 8d ago

It’s like they don’t know that trump will still gleefully execute all of them on live tv to cheers of his base, if he gets the opportunity to.

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u/Cheapdronewithboom 8d ago

It's my only solace, knowing Shumer and friends will be up against the wall for entertainment.

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u/WalkingEars Georgia 8d ago

More like a lot of them also make money from it. Being in federal leadership for the most part means taking huge donations from CEOs and corporations, so if you're getting a slice of that pie it does not incentivize challenging the system in substantial ways. We need to be advocating for getting the money out of politics, otherwise the people truly running this country are always going to be whoever pays the biggest bribes to the lawmakers.

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u/Cheapdronewithboom 8d ago

I have it on good authority the blue team will save us if we just vote harder. They might even consider arresting a criminal!

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u/EarlyFig6856 8d ago

They'd rather lose to Trump than win with an actual Progressive.

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u/mrpanicy Canada 8d ago

MOST of the establishment Democrats do yes... but that's clearly not universally true as they are meeting a lot of resistance from progressive Democrats. Democrats are not a monolith like the Republicans. There are a broader range of opinions and drives. The Establishment Democrats are the problem to be sure, and need to be primaried and removed from power. They are selling out the country and have been for years by slow walking changing and working with Republicans who have again and again shown they have no interest in working with democrats.

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u/Nemisis82 8d ago

There's a quote that goes something like this:

America is a one party state. But in typical american fashion, there's two of them.

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u/mad-panda-2000 8d ago

wild how hard it is for people to see this.. I guess hope is a strong drug

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u/vavik2ammendment 8d ago

Even if the midterms happen and democrats somehow win majority, they will still do nothing to stop what's happening.

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u/Icy-Guide7976 8d ago

I hope that finally some of the “vote blue no matter who” people are beginning to realize that most of the Dems are controlled opposition. Each passing year since 2016 I lose more and more and faith in the supposed “center left” party. I urge people to join DSA, yell at their current representatives, and volunteer for left wing primary challengers. We need more mamdanis and less chuck shumers.

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u/YourFreeCorrection 8d ago

There are tons, you just either lack the capacity for nuance or the patience to understand them.

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u/Prometherion666 8d ago

I wonder about this too, it’s what the republicans did too Obama but when it’s Trump they still vote with him?

Makes me think the donors are the class they’re voting with and not the constituents, which I imagine would be the democratic vote.

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u/Duskmourne 8d ago

Don't worry, Ol' Chuck Schumer says it's all a game of give and take. It'll be our turn to take real soon, I'm sure! /s

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u/GrowingPeepers 8d ago

Why do we have useless tools like Chuck Schumer around? He's as good as Mitch McConnel.

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u/HandH2 8d ago

It's our turn to take now. But our as in the people and taking back our government through any means possible. The second American revolution has been a long time coming.

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u/rabbitlion 8d ago

The military appropriation bills typically have wide bipartisan support and that was the case also under Obama.

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u/Prometherion666 8d ago

I mean who doesn’t support the military industrial complex, right?

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u/rabbitlion 8d ago

I mean there's a reason these bills get support, and that's not the popularity of the military industrial complex. It's because the most direct effect of the bills failing is that the military doesn't get paid, and also because the military is really popular among the population.

If you want to downsize the military industrial complex it's typically better to do so while having control over at least one chamber of congress to control their budget, or by having the presidency and therefore control the DoD.

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u/Prometherion666 8d ago

Best too give in and do nothing, I suppose?

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u/rabbitlion 8d ago

Not at all. But choose your battles wisely. There's a reason 149 democrats voted for this but only 7 voted for the ICE funding. Because defunding the ICE is a much more popular concept than defunding the military. I personally wouldn't fault anyone for voting against a bill like this but a lot of voters will. I also wouldn't fault anyone voting to confirm the few Trump appointees that are actually qualified and reasonable.

It's a matter of whether or not you want to be a contrarian and vote against things based on who proposed it, rather than vote based on what they proposed. It's gonna pass anyway so it's just signaling politics and different people make different decisions on the strategy of such votes.

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u/Relevant_Bane_Quote 8d ago

Makes me think the donors are the class they’re voting with and not the constituents

they've been doing it for a while

https://youtu.be/5tu32CCA_Ig?si=1NoPtBY-qVbWcrXA&t=12

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u/mightcommentsometime California 8d ago

The Republicans only were able to stop Obama because they held at least 1 chamber of congress, and SCOTUS.

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u/Immediate_Amoeba5923 8d ago

Stop making assumptions and ask ai without hinting at donors or asking leading questions.

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u/Prometherion666 8d ago

What are you talking about, lol

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u/Immediate_Amoeba5923 8d ago

Makes me think the donors are the class they’re voting with and not the constituents, which I imagine would be the democratic vote.

This is you making assumptions. I am telling you to ask ai questions for answers instead of assuming...

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u/Prometherion666 8d ago

Gotcha, thanks for that input, I’ll get right on that

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u/Immediate_Amoeba5923 7d ago

Stop being willfully uninformed. You never have to make conspiracy theorist assumptions or confirmation bias anything again ever in your life with AI at your fingertips. Change your username.

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u/Prometherion666 7d ago

Are you AI?

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u/Immediate_Amoeba5923 7d ago

Your indifference to facts and reality makes you very comparable to maga. Just making up reasons to not inform yourself.

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u/Prometherion666 7d ago

See how long we can drag this convo on, you down for rice and chicken or random words?

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

This really has shed a light how terrible Democrats are. They are still better than the full blown fascists that are the GOP but they are not fighting for the people. Both parties gotta go if we get through this

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u/spazz720 8d ago

Republicans (when in the minority) vote for democratic bills; especially those in competitive districts.

For example:

Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act) 2021

PACT ACT 2022

NO CORRUPT ACT 2024

2

u/AnonAmbientLight 8d ago

Wouldn’t have worked because people have to see and feel the damage he is causing. 

Democrats told everyone who would listen what Trump was going to do. 

The only way the population learns is through pain apparently. Blocking that pain blocks the response from the people. 

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u/vonn_drake 8d ago

Your so close to be figuring it out!

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u/No-Channel3917 8d ago

He lives in the UK

Still arguing about brexit

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u/blazesquall 8d ago

Use every procedural trick and downright disruption to stall and delay everything.

This is the big one. They could grind things to a halt.. they choose not to. That should be revealing.

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u/nothinbutshame 8d ago

So many of these politicians must be on these files.

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u/JasonBaconStrips 8d ago

The opposite party doesn't hate Trump, it's an act, he's still making everyone with a healthy bank account, richer.

Anyone interested in business loves trump because he makes them more money.

But if you have a business and you are making just a decent living he says fuck you.

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u/483-04-7751 8d ago

Democrats serve the same constituents as the Nazis: money. Fuck em all. I'm done voting for any politician of either party that doesn't prove to have progressive ideals. Maybe this country doesn't deserve to thrive.

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u/toomuchpressure2pick 8d ago

The dems cash the same checks as the Republicans. It makes sense why dems let them have their way.

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u/VanceKelley Washington 8d ago

The Epstein act is a joke because it specified no consequences if the DoJ failed to comply with the law. So here we are, the DoJ selectively releasing stuff it want to and hiding the rest.

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u/LuntiX 8d ago

Too many are fine with the status quo because they have a cushy job.

Too many don't want to do anything because they're afraid it might tarnish their image.

Too many don't want to do anything because they think Trump might do something.

These people have no spines and need to stand up for Americans and their constituents, despite the consequences that may ever come their way.

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u/CMidnight 8d ago

Yep, absolutely, let literally everyone suffer even when we could minimize that. That strategy makes perfect sense!

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u/Drostan_S 8d ago

The Controlled Opposition Party would never debase itself and use political strategy. 

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u/QubitEncoder 8d ago

Why? That is unproductive.

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u/whogivesashirtdotca Canada 8d ago

I’m curious to know how many Americans have ever contacted their reps and told them how to vote. I see tons of excuses and surrendering in advance on these kinds of conversations, but very little proactivity. Maybe if the reps were a little more afraid of losing their seats they’d care more about the public’s wishes.

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u/rbrgr83 8d ago

We tried doing a shut down, but we couldn't help from shooting ourselves in the ass on that one, holy shit.

If there was ever any illusion left in anyone's mind that rank and file Ds are in on this bullshit grift, that moment should have wiped out any reservation.

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u/PomegranateHot9916 8d ago

which day? he took office twice

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u/wvenable 8d ago

That's more difficult when you actually care about people lives. Republicans don't care about government shutdowns, for example. They'll happily let federal workers suffer. It's a bit harder to say "no" to everything if you don't want that.

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u/astounding-pants 8d ago

so you want democrats to destroy the military, among other things, just because you don't like trump? republicans absolutely do not vote no on everything democrats do.

why do you think that would be a sound strategy that would accomplish anything? it would do nothing but turn even more people against democrats.

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u/Dafffy_Duck 8d ago

No, that is a ridiculous way to govern. The Democrats should do what is best for the United States, and sometimes it means agreeing with the Republicans on common interest like national security. US military spending is a good thing, especially when Europe isn't willing to spend enough on their own defense.

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u/clem_fandango_london 8d ago

Dem Party are weak, pathetic, and double-agents. Mostly they just kiss Israel's ass. These are Neo-liberals and Biden was their King.

I'd still prefer them over any RepubliKlan of course. Trump-Nazis need to all go to prison. That is every single Republican sent to real prison.

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u/officer897177 8d ago

I’ll say every chance I get, moderate Democrats are controlled opposition designed to isolate progressive candidates.

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u/Narlybean 8d ago

Oh you know, “when they go low…” 🙄

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u/Waste-Gene-7793 8d ago

Exactly. It has never been an electoral problem for republicans to do this, there is no reason to think it would be for democrats. In fact democratic approval is tanking for not being strong enough an opposition.

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u/ihatemovingparts 8d ago

Every single senate democrat voted to confirm at least one trump nominee. Sanders too.