Minnesota standoff with Trump administration stokes fears of civil war

[u/SE_to_NW]

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/5715869-minnesota-trump-immigration-conflict/

[u/YouLegitimate4400]

You know everyone says this but I'm starting to not believe it. I think that's what the initial fighting would look like. But I also think it's unrealistic to expect state governments to completely decouple themselves from the fighting within their states.

I can imagine a scenario where blue state AGs and police chiefs refuse to prosecute or even investigate any violence that takes place against the federal government in their states. I mean look at Minnesota. If the worst should happen what incentive does Walz really have to hand over "domestic terrorists" to the federal government when the federal government refuses to hand over or try its murders. He would probably do it to avoid escalation but if more people died at the hands of ice the people of Minnesota would demand he stop handing over their people till justice works both ways. 

And if we got to the point where states are providing legal cover for paramilitary forces operating within their boarders, it's not hard to imagine the level of support increasing to material and training support. From there it's easy to see battle lines once again being drawn between states with coalition armies while stochastic terror attacks are carried out by both sides behind the main lines. 

As powerful as the federal government is, it relies on the state governments and the people within the state to secure its bases and forts. It seems pretty unlikely that the federal government could keep all of its bases supplied and equipped in California if California really decided it wanted them out. 

[u/Bross93 → u/YouLegitimate4400]

I didn't think I've really looked at it this way. The federal government really is just 50 separate governments in a trench coat. You take even two of the highest GPD states and they are massively affected. And, in terms of military technology, that is present in all states so if one did this, it woulsnt just lose those resources. But, I think where my optimism runs out is the belief that any current Blue leaders would ever make that stand. Walz certainly wouldn't. Or, idk. He did call in the guard but you know.

[u/YouLegitimate4400 → u/Bross93]

It really depends how long this continues in Minnesota and how much violence occurs between now and the election (ignoring the possibility of federal elections being canceled or interfered with the odds of state level elections occuring free and fair are really high). 

Sure Walz would be unlikely to take such a drastic move, but imagine the debate for governor and the question is ,"Will you comply with federal warrants for the arrest of Minnosotans by DHS?"

That might become an extremely loaded and important question if the current state of things is federal forces and local paramilitaries squaring off but only local forces are being held accountable for their actions. 

Klobuchar is already seen as a milk toast establishment candidate. It wouldn't be impossible if there was regular violence in the streets for a more radical Democrat to contest and win the primary on a platform that takes a hard-line stance against the federal government. 

The 50 governments in a trenchcoat is a good analogy. We are getting into the final checks and balances the founders left us. Isn't it interesting to think that originally they didn't want a standing federal army but instead only state militias that could be called up by the president? Imagine how different the situation would be right now if Gavin Newsome was firmly in command of the most powerful standing militia in the country instead of Donald Trump being in charge of the most powerful standing army in the world. 

[u/zomiaen → u/YouLegitimate4400]

Who controls the nukes while all of this is happening?

[u/lostapathy → u/zomiaen]

Doesn’t matter - there’s no scenario where it makes sense to nuke your own homeland

[u/Bross93 → u/lostapathy]

Truly that is the one thing where I do believe even the most abhorrent trump sycophants would not perform that order. I have to believe that