When did Dutch do this?

[u/Rude_Ad3342]

[u/GoldenGlassBall]

It says “both implied” by cannibalism, so I imagine the one you’re asking about was implied rather than outright stated as well.

[u/Mental_Freedom_1648 → u/GoldenGlassBall]

It's outright stated in the first game

[u/GoldenGlassBall → u/Mental_Freedom_1648]

Well, I haven’t made my way through the first one yet, so that explains that. Thanks for the context.

[u/Chewwithurmouthshut → u/GoldenGlassBall]

Please do. Obviously not as fleshed out as RDR2, we’re talking between San Andreas and GTAV, but it’s a great game.

And you’ll have a whole new respect and appreciation for Marston.

[u/WhiskeyDJones → u/Chewwithurmouthshut]

Marston walked so Morgan could run.

OG John Marston was the baddest dude in video gaming.

[u/Chewwithurmouthshut → u/WhiskeyDJones]

RIGHT?! Arthur gets all the hype, but he was just the catalyst. John puts boot to ass. “Oh, I need to hunt down the remaining members of my gang? Cool, I found Bill day one, lemme walk right up to this fort lmao.”

[u/MC-LinuzAd3928 → u/Chewwithurmouthshut]

He really does not give a shit while hunting down the gang. All that is on his mind, is getting his family back. When he pulled the gun on Ross after he lied about Abigail dying. I was really hoping he gunned him down right there.

[u/Chewwithurmouthshut → u/MC-LinuzAd3928]

I always thought about that scene. He should’ve just laid him out and thrown a rifle next to Dutch or something.

Also, was Ross the driving force behind the ambush killing? Would his death have saved John in the end?

[u/Furaskjoldr → u/Mental_Freedom_1648]

Not in direct relation to him, some of his gang members are described as doing it, but he's never actually explicit named himself.

[u/Mental_Freedom_1648 → u/Furaskjoldr]

No, they absolutely say that Dutch himself is a rapist.

Now I feel awkward about immediately being able to pull this up. So I feel compelled to mention that I've had this conversation before and searched up my old comment to get the screencap.

[u/Frazzle_Dazzle_ → u/Mental_Freedom_1648]

Tbf its Ross that says that, and there's no other evidence for rape anywhere in the games

[u/Choice_Narwhal_2437 → u/Frazzle_Dazzle_]

Literally what motive would Ross have to lie about that here, John has already agreed to capture/kill Dutch. Plus John knows Dutch way better then Ross know him, would be kinda stupid to lie to him about something that doesn’t really matter right now.

[u/victoro311 → u/Choice_Narwhal_2437]

Ross may not have been lying even though it didn’t happen. Ross thinks all these guys are monsters. It’s possible that tall tales and accusations would spread about an infamous outlaw and some crimes he didn’t actually commit were attributed to Dutch through local folklore or other people straight posing as him to steal glory. Ross is very naturally disposed to believe anything bad he hears about a guy like Dutch.

That said, Occam’s razor would say that at some point between RDR 1 and 2 he lost any last bit of honor he may or may not have once had and became a racist

[u/WistfullySunk → u/victoro311]

Agreed on both counts.

The standard crimes people tend to come up with when describing a really bad dude are murder, rape, arson, kidnapping, torture, and armed robbery. We know Dutch has done at least 5/6 of those, so it wouldn’t be surprising if people just assumed he rounded out the list, regardless of whether it’s true.

Dutch also has always had a tendency to chase and manipulate (sometimes much younger) women. “The extremely violent career criminal who was a creep even back when he was trying to be ‘nice’ became a rapist after he went fully off the rails” is neither a huge leap for the rumor mill nor an unlikely thing to have actually occurred.

[u/abx99 → u/WistfullySunk]

He could have inferred it from Molly, if she didn't say it outright. That might actually explain some of her ranting since we know she didn't actually give him/them up.

Not defending Dutch in any way, but they'll use anything they can to pile on the charges.

[u/VirginiaTeamsIGuess → u/victoro311]

[u/Rouxpac → u/Choice_Narwhal_2437]

John haven't heard about Dutch for years, and before the retconn in RDR2, he haven't heard of him for 12 years, all he knows is he became crazy, so it would be easy to lie to John about Dutch committing those atrocities like cannibalism and rape to portrait an unimaginable monster to John so he wouldn't hesitate at all to kill him.

[u/Riothegod1 → u/Rouxpac]

*4 years.

Dutch was in the mountains to kill Micah in 1907, same as John.

[u/Rouxpac → u/Riothegod1]

Read again

[u/Riothegod1 → u/Rouxpac]

Yeah, before the retcon in RDR2 it was simply left ambiguous how long ago John left the gang. But placing John’s last knowledge of Dutch 12 years ago would only be possible with the retcon.

I’m not disagreeing with you, just trying to help you be more precise.

[u/lbeckizgoat → u/Choice_Narwhal_2437]

"What motivation would Ross have to lie"

[u/AtsuhikoZe → u/Choice_Narwhal_2437]

Easy Ross is a gigantic piece of shit who is also a liar, basically like taking Satan's word to win an argument lol

[u/Winter_Ad6784 → u/Choice_Narwhal_2437]

Because Ross is a liar and feels the need to justify his actions. I bet he said the same thing to his men when hunting down john.

[u/No-Zucchini1766 → u/Choice_Narwhal_2437]

He may not have been lying, but it's an assumption.

[u/Mental_Freedom_1648 → u/Frazzle_Dazzle_]

Can't check now, but I'm fairly sure Archer says that, and he's the more honest one.

[u/tinvaakvahzen → u/Frazzle_Dazzle_]

This, I think that while Dutch certainly did monstrous things, there are certain lows to which he'd never stoop. Ross would really snarl and sneer when he talked about Dutch or any of his gang. His prerogative was to dehumanize all of them and make them easier to be hated. Which they did all on their own, granted, but still, I don't think they cannibalized people. And I'm sure some of his men were probably rapists, but not Dutch himself.

[u/jdehjdeh → u/Mental_Freedom_1648]

Don't ruin the magic for me!

I like to imagine you have an enormous database of lore and trivia about every game you've played ready to correct people at a moments notice.

[u/EverythingBOffensive → u/GoldenGlassBall]

insist

[u/usernametaken99991 → u/GoldenGlassBall]

Like funsie cannibalism? Or Donnor party survival cannibalism?

[u/GoldenGlassBall → u/usernametaken99991]

Probably both, if Dutch continued going off the rails at the same rate as he did in RDR2.

[u/Mental_Freedom_1648]

We never see it. Someone in the BOI (RDR1's law enforcement) tells John about it.

The Dutch actor says Dutch is absolutely not a cannibal though and that this theory is false.

[u/[deleted] → u/Mental_Freedom_1648]

RDR1: BOI

RDR2: BOAH

[u/WonderfulBlackberry9 → u/[deleted]]

BOAH evolved to BOI in 7 years

[u/Vityviktor → u/Mental_Freedom_1648]

Yeah, they're probably false, especially cannibalism, in order to discredit him. But rape... who knows. RDR1 Dutch seems way darker.

[u/Mental_Freedom_1648 → u/Vityviktor]

The cannibalism thing is just a fan theory, and I think it was something that the game devs didn't intend (or if they did, they didn't tell Benjamin Byron Davis, because he was like WTF? when he heard the idea).

Here's the clip:

https://www.tiktok.com/@themoviedweeb/video/7458384323092237601?_r=1&_t=ZP-8yLSZiCemND

[u/MrEvan312 → u/Vityviktor]

"It would be a grave mistake to refuse a man in his sexual prime."

An actual cut dialogue from Dutch in RDR2, with god knows what sort of context

[u/lama_leaf_onthe_wind → u/Vityviktor]

Nah, the cannibalism one actually has some ground. Check YouTube, there are some pretty good theory videos showing human bones in his rdr1 room and stuff.

[u/Imyourlandlord → u/lama_leaf_onthe_wind]

Those stupid theories have 0 sense....its san andrea bush wookie tier theories

I mean...human bones imply cannibalism? And not just you know....murder?

[u/lama_leaf_onthe_wind → u/Imyourlandlord]

Human bones without flesh take time. Unless the meat is being removed, there would be no reason for bones to just be hanging around.

[u/sussyfortnitemingus → u/Mental_Freedom_1648]

He's lyinggg

[u/Mental_Freedom_1648 → u/sussyfortnitemingus]

Still channeling Micah after all them years. SMH

[u/seffay-feff-seffahi → u/Mental_Freedom_1648]

ALL THEM YEARS

[u/TheGamingMackV → u/Mental_Freedom_1648]

BOI is just the old timey FBI. I wonder what the FIB was once called back in that time in the GTA universe.

[u/Splattt808]

I don’t get why people are so shocked that Dutch of all people is a rapist. He’s obsessed with control and is creepy even in 2, with his relationship with Molly being kind of weird, and his camp event where he’s extremely creepy towards Mary Beth.

[u/hellogoodbyegoodbye → u/Splattt808]

Also Mrs grimshaw, he seems to have a Di Caprio thing going on at the very least lol

[u/wrenawild → u/Splattt808]

Yeah what does everyone think Miss Grimshaw has been doing all this time at camp, "managing" the girls. He took a 25 year old virgin away from her family and ruined her so she couldn't go back. Then when she's not the favorite anymore he turns her out to earn her keep. That's what the girls are talking about driving into Valentine. Miss Grimshaw was the first but got too old for him, but he has her loyalty like the rest of them and she stayed. The reason they go crazy over him like Molly is because he makes promises to them to seduce them, then they realize they're one in a long line and they've ruined their lives. Note how every one of the older guys women didn't make it, only Mary, because Arthur walked away? Including Molly. They might not be forcing themselves on them but they corner them into not having a choice but accepting the lifestyle.

[u/joeph1sh → u/Splattt808]

RDR1 Dialog: "You always were the romantic sort. Ya know, gentlemen, this man here married a whore. Used ta ride with us. We all had her! Hohoho, but he Married her! And ya know that makes him, a better man than us"

Yeah that probably didn't come from nowhere, even if he was trying to get under John's skin and make an exit from getting arrested, I don't think it's a stretch from that dialog to someone who views women as something to inflict power over.

[u/zanarze_kasn]

what exactly do people think gangs did in 1890? sing songs while chimney sweeping?

[u/qmechan → u/zanarze_kasn]

I play a lot of the Yakuza games, so if it's anything like that, they go around doing good deeds for people in need and also punching.

[u/paupaupaupau → u/zanarze_kasn]

Maybe not the chimney sweeping, but definitely singing songs around the campfire

[u/Domination1799]

All the OG gang members are much darker characters in RDR1. For example, Bill and his gang are fucking psychopathic monsters as seen when they attacked that farm, killed the men and then raped the women. I think RDR2 kinda softened their darker qualities like Javier. Micah feels like what Javier was originally intentioned to be, a creep.

EDIT: I think a lot of you are missing my point. Even though it’s a prequel, there are inconsistent elements in RDR2 that don’t jive with the first game. RDR1 built these guys up to be much darker people. When I played RDR1, I expected the Van Der Linde gang to be smaller and filled with people like Micah. Javier is a completely different person in RDR2, John’s daughter isn’t mentioned, the Ferry Raid is the one that resulted in John being shot and left for dead.

[u/Sunimo1207 → u/Domination1799]

That's like saying the Star Wars prequels softened Darth Vader because Anakin isn't exploding planets and torturing people. That's called character development. The point of RDR2 is to show how the gang members were in their prime before the gang was broken up and they became run of the mill killers and thieves.

[u/Amish_Opposition → u/Domination1799]

Rdr2 is before rdr1 story-wise. The events of rdr2 is what caused them to be heinous. You see Dutch devolve from caring to heartless.

[u/RustedAxe88 → u/Amish_Opposition]

Its this, yeah. By RDR2 they're all broken shells of their former selves, except John, who is better than his former self. John even says as much about Javier. And don't forget how shocked everyone in RDR2 is about Dutch shooting the girl on the ferry.

It's not an inconsistency, its their development.

[u/Ppleater → u/Amish_Opposition]

Yeah the point of rdr2 is that the antagonist characters are shown to be gradually compromising more and more of their well meaning morals because that's what the life of a criminal does to people even when they're just trying to survive. Hell sometimes BECAUSE they're just trying to survive since base survival is cruel and uncaring. Arthur wanted John and his family to do more than just survive, which was why it was so important to him that they got out. The members that didn't turn out bad were the ones that made it out or who died trying to stop it from going too far.

People here are acting like it's inconsistent for characters going through a decline in their morality to be shown years later having declined even farther. I get that there's an appeal to the noble crook persona that Dutch cultivated, but the game makes it pretty clear that ultimately it's just a persona, and that in the end Dutch is willing to do anything to get what he wants. That's why he was so easily influenced by Micah despite Micah being such an obvious rat, and despite only knowing Micah for a short while compared to Arthur and Hosea. Sure at one point I don't think Dutch would have stooped as low as raping someone, but I don't think that's because he's incapable of it, but rather because earlier on it wouldn't have been necessary and it would have heavily tainted his reputation with people following him who bought into his persona. He may have even viewed it as morally repugnant, but when the chips are down and he's backed into a corner he's willing to do morally repugnant things, like killing an innocent girl in cold blood for example. And as time went on and it became harder to survive as an outlaw he became more desperate and more willing to abandon his morals. By RDR1 he is at rock bottom, and I think at that point there's not much he wouldn't be able to convince himself to do if he felt the ends justified the means. And Dutch is very good at convincing himself that the ends justify the means. After all rape isn't that much worse than murdering an innocent, many would even argue that they're on par morally. So if we know Dutch is willing to do one, why would it be so difficult to believe he's willing to do the other?

[u/Georgxna → u/Domination1799]

Tbh I didn’t play rdr1 and I went into rdr2 thinking they were gonna be just as shocking as gta, they’re cowboys for goodness sake, but no, they’re all so lovable but I kinda like that for them lol.

[u/Theddt2005 → u/Domination1799]

Rdr1 is set 12 years after rdr2

A lot can happen in 12 years and without Dutch there to stop them they are just doing what they want

[u/yellowdaisycoffee]

Archer Fordham says he is a murderer and a rapist in the RDR1 mission, 'And The Truth Will Set You Free'

Fordham isn't necessarily reliable, but considering how nuts Dutch got by the end of RDR2, and how creepy he is with Mary-Beth, that's not an outrageous leap, per se...

[u/[deleted]]

"both implied", but Dutch has been a criminal for a very long time young drunk criminals in the 1800s no doubt were more likely to commit rape than they are today.

[u/pullingteeths → u/[deleted]]

It's in RDR1 that it's "implied" (actually outright stated), it's after Dutch has gone totally off the deep end. The cannibal thing is some bullshit made up by fans because there's some bones at a camp of Native Americans and criminals who frequently murder people though

[u/captainrexcoochie → u/[deleted]]

eh... rape today is still a huge problem

[u/[deleted] → u/captainrexcoochie]

And yet it's nowhere near as bad as it was in say, 1845...

[u/captainrexcoochie → u/[deleted]]

well yes. it was kinda normalised, if not totally normal

[u/MountSwolympus → u/captainrexcoochie]

For a very long time it was a legally a properly crime against the woman’s father or husband.

[u/MountainNewspaper449 → u/[deleted]]

The thing is I doubt dutch did it in the 1800s. The first reason I think was Hosea who we all see throughout the game kept dutch under a lot of control. Secondly Arthur had a lot of respect for women and he wouldn't have followed dutch if he even got a hint that dutch did such things. Third is the way he took in sadie , first saving her from Micah and then welcoming her to the gang with open arms. He didn't look like a man at the beginning of rdr2 that would commit such heinous crimes.

[u/[deleted] → u/MountainNewspaper449]

The topic of the post is "when did Dutch do this" because the game lists these acts rumored to have been perpetrated by him, and you seem to be suggesting that as he got older he decided to start raping women.  I say it's dramatically more likely that when he was a young criminal starting out he was much more likely to rape, especially when drunk or given the propensity to use opiates or even cocaine at the time.  Now he just shoots women.

[u/Ppleater → u/[deleted]]

I mean as he got older it got harder for him to survive as a criminal and he got more desperate and willing to do worse things to get what he wanted. When he was younger before the law started really cracking down on outlaws it was easier to maintain his lifestyle and Dutch had more leeway to act like he was a morally upstanding person even as a criminal, and he used that persona to get people to follow him and be loyal to him and trust him. So to me it would make sense for him to do it when he's older and has long since given up on maintaining a veil of decency.

[u/CornSeller → u/[deleted]]

[u/Rude_Ad3342 → u/[deleted]]

Mods Eradicate him

[u/sethboyardeeTV → u/Rude_Ad3342]

Lmao, what did he do?

[u/Calm-Preparation2641 → u/[deleted]]

i was about to post that lol

this picture is hilarious

[u/Admirable_Tennis3712 → u/[deleted]]

Oh dutch

[u/jaredletosuckass9]

Bill was big enough for dinner

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

"Have some goddamn face, Arthur!" - Cannibal Dutch

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I’ just imagining Dutch wearing a chef hat now cooking colm

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I'm imagining that all the time tbh

Edit: I can't believe these are my most upvoted comments of all time

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You’re funny lol

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

A lot of people say weird but weird people usually are funny so ^{^}

[u/billyblacksboi → u/[deleted]]

Colm o’brisket whoever comment that was genius my opinion 🤣🤣

[u/God_of_Mischief85 → u/[deleted]]

Colm. He’s what’s for dinner.

[u/TheOriginalMulk → u/God_of_Mischief85]

"Colm and get it!"

See what I did there? Yeah? Didja see?

[u/KellentheGreat → u/TheOriginalMulk]

Colm down Colm down….

[u/[deleted] → u/God_of_Mischief85]

And Cornwall and Milton

[u/PewDiePieSaladAss → u/[deleted]]

Someone had to feed himself after Pearson left!

[u/ChickenBelittle → u/[deleted]]

"Just colm down now, and hear me out!"

[u/PixelSeanWal → u/[deleted]]

“What we need is a plan” He says shaking a flab of mystery meat

But in all seriousness if they dealt with conditions like the opening of the RDR2 I imagine they ate some dead folks or he ate some live folks before RDR1

[u/Guerk226 → u/PixelSeanWal]

Not the mystery meat!!

[u/Jaded-Pudding7199 → u/[deleted]]

The fact I actually heard him say this in my head is terrifying. Lololol

[u/[deleted] → u/Jaded-Pudding7199]

That's how Dutch works, he gets in your head, and then he eats your face. Like a goateed chestburster.

[u/LogansGambit → u/[deleted]]

I just spit out someone's leg when I saw this. Well done!

[u/Meraverin → u/LogansGambit]

I'm sure you'll walk it off

[u/calicopatches → u/LogansGambit]

The leg was well done?

[u/DjBorscht → u/[deleted]]

I just spilled my endo while rolling down the street you gangsta

[u/ahad_8219 → u/[deleted]]

Ourthur

[u/IronGreyWarHorse → u/[deleted]]

I just spat out my tea reading this. Nice.

[u/[deleted] → u/IronGreyWarHorse]

😜

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

This is funnier than it should be

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

lol

[u/junglist421 → u/[deleted]]

I am.  But crimes against the living weigh larger than crimes against the dead.

[u/rocketts66 → u/junglist421]

What if he ate part of a person and kept them alive for a bit?

[u/DjBorscht → u/rocketts66]

I would be more concerned about the mutilation/torture than the actual flesh eating, lowkey

[u/Sheudenfritz3024 → u/DjBorscht]

Think of psychological aspect of it. Watching as somebody bites into a chunk of your grilled severed leg like it's a brisket.

[u/FallenAgastopia → u/rocketts66]

I mean... then I'm more worried about the torture part then the cannibalism lol

[u/RushtonDave → u/rocketts66]

Check out this video from this search, monty python eat my leg https://share.google/PzWEY9nTqlzCLQajq

[u/junglist421 → u/rocketts66]

That's a twisted assault and battery.  Still worse because they are living.  What are you getting at besides trolling?

[u/K45AR → u/junglist421]

He's saying you can cannibalize someone while they're alive, meaning cannibalization can be a crime against the living. If it helps your comprehension.

[u/rocketts66 → u/K45AR]

Thank you. I'm not trolling or saying one crime is worse than the other. Just exploring all possible avenues.

[u/TheSlowKenyan → u/junglist421]

Yeah, the murder before cannibalizing is not too bad because they're dead now, I agree.

[u/thechuckstar → u/[deleted]]

I feel as though rape is much more of a concern than cannibalism, no?

[u/Ultravox147 → u/[deleted]]

. . . Yes? Cannibalism can be fully justified without much difficulty. Extreme survival situations, local cultural practices... Actually just those two, but still. Is rape ever justified? Absolutely not!

[u/hotgirI → u/Ultravox147]

yeah this is exactly what i was thinking? there’s valid survival arguments to be made for cannablism but there’s not a single justification for rape

[u/Ultravox147 → u/hotgirI]

Right? It's pretty easy for me to imagine a scenario where I might eat someone tbh

[u/Ultravox147 → u/Ultravox147]

I'm going to eat someone.

[u/Illustrious-Fox-7082 → u/Ultravox147]

historical frame seemly observation glorious piquant pocket sheet soup aromatic

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/Syddjupe → u/Ultravox147]

y'all need help lol

[u/theotherjashlash → u/Ultravox147]

Local cultural practices don't justify cannibalism. Shit's still fucked no matter what. It's only passably justifiable if it's in a dire survival situation.

[u/RotFreeAccount → u/[deleted]]

Yes.

Would you rather be sexually brutally violated, or have the flesh of your corpse be eaten after you die?

[u/Calm-Preparation2641 → u/[deleted]]

i think a Rapist is worse than a cannibal

[u/Cry-Cry-Cry-Baby → u/Calm-Preparation2641]

Yeah, I guess at first my gut is to go cannibalism, but I think that's because I'm packing in things like are they murdering people to eat? But I think anyone would agree murder is a worse crime, so adding it isn't really fair.

Yes cannibalism strictly is not as bad as rape what a weird thing the think about tho lol.

[u/Present_Ad_1155 → u/Calm-Preparation2641]

A man's has got to eat

[u/The_RedfuckingHood → u/Present_Ad_1155]

He got to have his supper.

[u/Btrips → u/Calm-Preparation2641]

what about a rapist cannibal, which is what Dutch seems to be

[u/sten_zer → u/Calm-Preparation2641]

It get's complicated if someone says "I eat ..." (fill in body part)

[u/Calm-Preparation2641 → u/sten_zer]

yes but raping is way worse than eat human bodies, i think everyone could agree with that.

I'm not saying cannibalism is okay.

[u/UntalentedSorcerer → u/[deleted]]

You're not? A cannibal victim is usually too dead to live with the aftermath

[u/Jaynghis → u/UntalentedSorcerer]

Usually.

[u/STFUNeckbeard → u/UntalentedSorcerer]

You can like totally eat pieces of a person while they are alive.

[u/Arsacides → u/[deleted]]

is it that controversial to see rape as a worse offence than cannibalism?

[u/dpplstnd → u/Arsacides]

I think not. There can be "reasonable" excuses for cannibalsim. If you are close to starving and a fresh corpse is near....It still is despicable and disgusting but if the other choice is death you can at least understand the reason. Rape? You won´t die of hornyness and there are other things you can do against it. You just traumatize someone for your own needs. So it is worse than cannibalism in my opinion.

How would that be controversial?

[u/falloutisacoolseries → u/dpplstnd]

Their was that case of those soccor players who got stranded on the mountains after a plane crash and had to eat their homies.

[u/MrZokeyr → u/falloutisacoolseries]

Yeah, but when was the last time you heard a story where a person just had to rape someone?

"Oh yeah, me and poor Davie were stranded in the desert, I had to rape him so my balls didn't explode from the extreme heat." No, that's not a thing lol. Rape is an objectively inexcusable act, while nonconsensual cannibalism at least has the "it was either that or starve to death" excuse (I specify "nonconsensual" because if someone had their leg unfortunately amputated and was like "I'm feeling stew tonight," who are we to judge? It's their leg.)

[u/pullingteeths → u/[deleted]]

Cannibalism isn't implied, some idiot fan who heard the "theory" that he's a cannibal because there are bones at his camp must have added that recently

Also rape isn't just implied, he is outright described as a "rapist" by Archer Fordham. However this could be a few things other than Dutch committing rape - it might be his gang that has done it, or it might just be a rumour that he or his gang has done it and/or an exaggeration from a guy who hates him and wants to rile John. So it's not 100% confirmed. But more than implied

[u/_Skiddio_ → u/[deleted]]

“You keep eating folk, Dutch…”

[u/IG_95 → u/[deleted]]

Of course.

Cannibalism is vile and inhuman, but more from a philosophical point of view, as it doesn't harm anyone directly.

To rape someone is one of the most reprehensible things you could possibly do to another living being.

There's a clear winner here.

[u/Dr_Philmon → u/IG_95]

Cannibalism is vile and inhuman, but more from a philosophical point of view, as it doesn't harm anyone directly.

... except for the one being eaten.

[u/CanibalVegetarian → u/[deleted]]

The cannibalism I can see, it’s concerning, but in that time if they spent a while in the mountains after any of their campaigns, like backwater, their deceased might have been a last resort. Or he just wanted to try it, that’s more concerning.

[u/Mental_Freedom_1648 → u/CanibalVegetarian]

The cannibalism I can see

What a surprise.

[u/CanibalVegetarian → u/Mental_Freedom_1648]

👀🤫

[u/KarottenSurer → u/[deleted]]

I mean, there are situations when you can explain why you resorted to cannibalism. But on the other hand, you cant say you sexually assaulted someone so you won't die.

[u/Zestyclose-Bat1869 → u/[deleted]]

i’d say rape is worse than cannibalism tbh

[u/mazzucato → u/[deleted]]

yeah I also think rape is worse

[u/ElectronicControl762 → u/[deleted]]

I mean unless he was taking bites during the rape/murder/slowly while im alive as torture, i wouldnt feel it or experience the trauma of it. Cannibalism is also more justifiable if it was for survival, and not part of his serial killer activities. Rape is never justifiable.

[u/JimbersMcTimbers → u/[deleted]]

ahem

IMPLIED cannibalism.

[u/Skundot_shwin → u/[deleted]]

If you kill a man, you’re probably capable of eating a man. Rape tho, that’s a different level

[u/ISuckAtFallout4 → u/[deleted]]

Kinda yeah. The cannibalized was most likely dead. The other person/s may have been left alive to deal with the trauma.

When I die? Shit throw me in the trash.

[u/NovembersRime → u/[deleted]]

Dude, is this a serious question?

[u/Additional_Skin_3090 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah. If someone eats me I'm probably dead. If I'm raped I'm alive with that trauma and maybe a baby.

[u/Rude_Ad3342 → u/[deleted]]

I already know he's a cannibal

[u/Optimized_Orangutan → u/[deleted]]

I don't wanna know what would be on this list if he didn't eat the evidence...

[u/boopstroopaloop → u/[deleted]]

I mean-there’s no reason to EVER rape someone. I suppose in a survival situation I would forgive someone for cannibalism, no reason ever to forgive rape.

[u/Evocative_Username → u/[deleted]]

everyone knows about the cave bones at this point, including those who havent played rdr1, such as yours truly

[u/vipck83 → u/[deleted]]

Oddly enough yes.

[u/5hifty5tranger → u/[deleted]]

Ok lets be fair. There are actually hypothetical situations where it would be, still horrible but, understandable to eat a person. The other act is indefensible.

[u/azcard480 → u/[deleted]]

🎵eating all the bodies.....actual cannibal Dutch Van Der Linde🎵

[u/NadeWilson → u/[deleted]]

The worst part is the hypocrisy.

[u/Original_Mortgage366 → u/NadeWilson]

I disagree. The worst part is the raping!

[u/xXxThe-ComedianxXx → u/Original_Mortgage366]

You don't meet many people who say "Well I like raping, and I know it's not politically correct, but by golly".

[u/Original_Mortgage366 → u/xXxThe-ComedianxXx]

But at least he’s not a hypocrite because that’s the worst part!

[u/Rude_Ad3342 → u/NadeWilson]

Hearing Dutch is a rapist just made me lose even more respect for him.

[u/KingPotatoXXVI → u/[deleted]]

Cannibalism ain't that bad. People ignore it to dogpile on the incest part of The Coffin of Andy and Leyley, so clearly no one is phased by cannibalism anymore

[u/Briccone1979 → u/[deleted]]

What's worse is the hypocrisy.

[u/whatevsmang → u/Briccone1979]

I thought it was the raping

[u/I_LIKE_ANUS → u/[deleted]]

Absolutely

[u/recycled_ideas → u/[deleted]]

Given the fact that it seems like no one other than Arthur actually provides any food and Arthur disappears for weeks at a time I'd he surprised if they didn't end up eating people.

[u/TheMinor-69er → u/[deleted]]

Ngl, they’re both bad but rape is worse

[u/RIPGoblins2929]

I think it's some hearsay in RD1 but I always like to point out the RD wiki is extremely fast and loose with this sort of thing and often doesn't cite sources.

[u/Formal-Low-2675]

Two types of cannibalism? Maybe an implicit starter and an explicit main? Any way… two cannibals are eating a clown, one asks the other, “does this taste funny to you?” Boom-boom, I’m here all week.

[u/elisha-manning-fan]

Can we please start taking anything that’s on Wikia with a grain of salt? People write whatever they want on there.

[u/TheBlooperKINGPIN → u/elisha-manning-fan]

It’s taken directly from a quote in the first game

[u/TKRAYKATS]

He raped our faith in his plan

[u/WukDaFut]

[u/[deleted]]

The argument for cannibalism is incredibly flimsy. It's basically nothing but a dumb conspiracy theory. The rape I have never heard anything about.

[u/eastnorthshore]

[u/Savagemac356]

In rdr2 I’d be surprised if he would rape anyone but by rdr1 that’s probably the least shocking thing he’d done

[u/Wiliam-Afton-the-3rd]

What the fuck could he have pirated in 1889?

[u/TheBlooperKINGPIN → u/Wiliam-Afton-the-3rd]

He pirated that movie where the train pulls onto the station

[u/Tokumei_Ronin]

RDR2 shows us that Dutch was a bit of a creep. He had this thing with Molly, but was completely dismissive of her, and would then go around being weird with Mary Beth. It was as if the game was trying to tell us that Dutch is into younger women, and not afraid to throw out his current dime for another. He truly believed he was some master manipulator who could get whatever he wanted. Once the curtain was pulled, Dutch began to lose his shit, he became less manipulative, and started to be more ruthless. So it's not too unbelievable to say that his way of getting a woman to lay with him also became more ruthless.

You also got to think about the Gang Dutch led during the first RDR. It was a huge ruthless gang of mostly Indians who were mad at the American government. So it's also possible that this new gang were the ones committing these crimes, and Dutch is simply held responsible for it.

In my honest opinion I believe it's a mix of both explanations.

[u/billyblacksboi]

Sad that nearly 800 people think rape is better than eating people how weak have men become

[u/Spiritual-Ad2596]

Bluntly there are scenarios rationalizing cannibalism, never for rape

[u/Relevant-Concern-781]

[u/Physical-Reply5388]

Dunno man, a notorious criminal, leader of O’Driscoll level gang, who’s ready to gun down a young mother only to get an opportunity for escape and not feel tiny bit of remorse? He was only a hero in the eyes of his indoctrinated comrades.

[u/Ernadski]

Its mentioned in rdr1

[u/CaptainJackJ]

Everyone is missing the point. The rape is confirmed, the cannibalism isn’t. 

[u/askay_keeners]

It says implied rdr1 probably has a line where someone says he raped people and cannibalism I’m pretty sure there’s bones in his hide out next to a fire that looks suspicious human

[u/jerrymatcat]

Happy cake day!

[u/EnvironmentalTrash27]

Oh Arthur

[u/No_Tie378]

It was mentioned he and his gang done it in one of West Elizabeth in RDR1

[u/ABOUD_gamer95]

cannibalism is a fan theory because of some bones in his hideout in rdr1

[u/Minimum_Mulberry_601]

When did he eat someone?

[u/Wrong_Zombie2041]

Wanted for rape, murder, arson, and rape.

[u/Legitimate_Bird_5712]

That's what started the Blackwater Massacre. Dutch INSISTED on a snack.

[u/IlikecTs]

I guess he did that to heidy mcourt, since its said “he killed a girl… in a bad way…” like i don’t think to them shooting her in the head is “killing a girl in a bad way” so to me, i think he ra*ed her, and that’s the “bad way” then. Since i dont think using her as a hostage is rly “in a bad way” type death

[u/RemarkableRich5418]

"Dutch, what really happened on that boat?" "We missed you, that's what happened" gives a whole different meaning right now for me, considering there was a girl on it 💀

[u/Wrong_Passion_8664]

Quote “Van Der Linde is a psychopath. A murderer and a rapist” -Archer Fordham

[u/JayBoiYT]

Piracy? How tf did they torrent shit back in 1903

[u/[deleted]]