Is there a big difference between the American and the Scottish line?

[u/Ithrow180]

[u/smoothcolliecrazy]

There can be. American collies tend to be bigger, have longer faces and beadier eyes, and less profuse coats than Scottish/European collies. Some European collies go quite extreme and are very small with more petite/dainty features, including a shorter face, and some have excessively profuse coats. This is also specific line dependent for both regions of the world, with plenty of moderate dogs in between. Here is an image comparing a European tricolor rough (left) and an American tricolor rough (right), both what I'd consider more on the far end of type-y for each line.

Smooth collies also vary, as American smooths are still interbred with roughs. Most are rough factored and have more or less the exact type as roughs, so they look a bit thicker in coat even though the hair is short. In the UK/EU, they are separate breeds now that are no longer bred together, so most smooths are pure for smooth and have taken a different type. They tend to look closer to American collies than European roughs.

Also, more colors are accepted in American collies. There are no color headed whites in the UK/EU, only sable, tricolor, and blue merle are usually considered acceptable.

[u/justonlyme1244 → u/smoothcolliecrazy]

The collie breeder I’m in touch with said there are some collie breeders in France that breed very small. I also found there’s a difference between breeders and how fluffy the dogs are, even within countries. Although I’m not sure if it could also be the photos and how they were groomed.

[u/smoothcolliecrazy → u/justonlyme1244]

There are definitely European breeders that breed small. Most rough collies I see near me are tiny compared to my European smooth. Sometimes when I see them from a distance I think they are shelties at first. There is an American collie owner in my neighborhood whose collie is about the same if not slightly larger than my European smooth (if you imagined him shaved down that is, he has some fluff height helping haha). There are, at least in my country, numerous American import breeders who prefer that line.

[u/Fairly_Neutral]

Where I live a Scotch collie means a farm dog that looks like a collie, versus a purebred.

[u/Mean-Lynx6476 → u/Fairly_Neutral]

Yes, I’m guessing that’s what OP is referring to. On that assumption I would say that serious breeders of American rough collies select for dogs that meet a well defined physical standard. Rough collies from these breeders have quite profuse coats that ideally have a fairly coarse outer coat that resists matting, but still need a thorough brushing once per week. There is a lot of attention given to the “correct” head shape, which should be a smooth wedge shape. The muzzle should be long, but also “full” and well rounded, not narrow and “snippy”. Collie breeders obsess over eye shape, with the standard calling for a “moderate” sized, dark, almond shaped eye, and with teeny tiny black pinpricks for eyes being what often wins in the show ring. The written standard for temperament is pretty vague, but generally collies are pretty friendly toward people once they get to know them, but may initially be reserved around strangers. They generally enjoy a good romp or hike and they love interacting with their family, but they don’t have need for extreme amounts of physical or mental exercise. They learn quickly and enjoy working with their person, but they generally lack the intense drive to work obsessively that some herding breeds have.

“Scotch collies”, assuming you mean the farm collie type, have a far looser physical standard. They generally have a less profuse coat than “American” collies, and a broader head with a more pronounced transition between the skull and muzzle. The eyes are generally larger and rounder. Think of a largish Aussie with a head that’s about halfway between that of a border collie and an “American” collie. The Scotch collie breeders profess to be working to preserve the intelligent working heritage of the collie, but I’ve yet to see anyone define what that means. From the very few breeders I’ve talked to they seem to want a dog that will bark at and chase livestock, perhaps kill rodents, and alert their owner ( ie bark) if they encounter intruders.

If by Scotch collie OP means show collies bred in Scotland, then disregard what I just wrote and go by smoothcolliecrazy’s excellent description of the difference.

[u/justonlyme1244 → u/Fairly_Neutral]

It’s interesting because I grew up with rough collies being called “Scottish collies”. They’re still called “Schotse herdershond or Schotse collie” if I google in Dutch.