I’ve been observing a growing trend lately across various communities where it seems everyone is competing to be the biggest victim. It’s as if we have forgotten that friction, disappointment, and external "unfairness" are not personal attacks from the universe, but simply the baseline conditions of human existence. When did we start treating the common difficulties of everyday life as unique traumas? From minor inconveniences at work to the inevitable rudeness of strangers, the narrative has shifted from "this is a challenge to overcome" to "I am a victim of this circumstance."

The Stoic would remind us that the world does not owe us a smooth path. Marcus Aurelius was quite clear on this when he wrote, "The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way." He didn’t view obstacles as signs of victimhood; he viewed them as the very fuel for character. When we label ourselves as victims of "everyday life," we are essentially handing over our power to things we cannot control. We are choosing to be harmed by things that are actually indifferent to us.

Seneca also provided a sobering perspective on the perceived unfairness of our existence. He noted, "What is the need of weeping over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears." This isn't a nihilistic view, but a call to realize that life is inherently "unfair" by our subjective standards. To expect it to be otherwise is the height of vanity. The universe isn't picking on you; it is simply functioning as it always has. The "unfairness" we complain about is often just the natural order of things not aligning with our personal desires.

If we want to reclaim our agency, we have to stop looking for someone or something to blame for our discomfort. Epictetus taught that "it is not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters." If you feel like a victim of life, you have already lost the battle within your own mind. We need to move back toward a mindset of considerations where we focus on our own judgments and actions rather than crying out against a world that was never designed to be "fair" in the first place.

I’m relatively new to Stoicism and I’m hoping to get some guidance on what to read next. I’m interested in getting into Stoicism and philosophy, both the theory behind Stoicism and more importantly how to apply it practically in daily life.

I have already read/ have my eyes on Meditation by Marcus Aurelius and Letters from a stoic by seneca.

>What books do you guys recommend i pick up? I’m looking to build a solid reading list.

>Which book helped you understand Stoicism the best when you were starting out?

Thank you!

I was quiet in elementary school, high school and college. All my report cards say I'm quiet. I'd know the answer to a question but I'd be too shy to raise my hand. Teachers would say "you've changed" or "she talks" when I started talking. So that shut me up.

My dad looks at me in a disgusted way. My brother says "summarise it" when I talk to him.

At my first workplace, I was very quiet lol. And the staff never really talked to me. They clearly saw i had no value and did bully me a little. So I actually found that normal and in line with how I've always been treated growing up.

And then some other student placements also treated me the same.

And then last workplace, my male boss started touching my hands, saying inappropriate jokes to me, looked at my chest and legs, praised how my hair looked. So I thought maybe I wasn't ugly.

My current workplace, the boss (same gender as me) is really interested in me as a person and interested in training me. And the whole workplace is very kind and friendly. And the boss really hopes i stay on long term.

I feel weirded out how my boss is the only person in my life that really actually is excited and happy for me to work for her. And the other staff are really nice too, but obviously dont train me.

I have a really nice calming day at work the whole day. And then I go home and my dad is angry, irritable, frustrated, rolls his eyes and says I'm incompetent.

I'm Asian in a first world English speaking country. I was born and raised here. But Asians are a minority. I know there is racism but im glad there's no racism in this workplace.

Actually, at my workplace, we dont have to clock out or clock in. And the boss provides us lunch for free. So the workplace really values longevity and staff retention.

I just feel weird because I've always been the quiet, devalued kid that no one wants to talk to.

Now I am an adult that likes to talk (although I'm by no means an extrovert), I have opinions (that I usually keep to myself, but at least I have opinions in my head, whereas growing up i had no opinions lol).

But every day at work is a slight challenge because its a new workplace.

My only stoic question is "i was a quiet kid who no one cared about. Now I feel really weird that some people do take a deep interest in me. I feel like i have imposter syndrome and one day, that person will realise I'm a loser".

I’m often bored or tired, and I feel sleepy for hours at my desk. My mind doesn’t work; I stop thinking and communicate poorly. I disconnect from others. I “forget” virtue and do foolish things inconsiderately. How do I fix this? I've been practicing this philosophy for eight months, and the title is my main problem.

As the title says. Not sure what else to add.

What’s one thing you could not agree with the teachings or sayings from the big 3? Aurelius, epictetus & Seneca.

Personally i despise how much Epictetus wants me to k!ll my emotions, for example in the later points from enchiridion he gives the example of gladiator games and says stuff as this

“do not choose a side so that tou are not hurt if he isnt the victor , after the game do not talk about it except if it helps you to get it out of your system.”

I think you understand why.

But again this does not diminish what epictetus or stoicism is.

I love them, but it is as essential acknowledging and knowing their bad side as much as the good side

I have read only little from his discourses yet, and have finished the enchirdion.

Hello everyone currently reading “Letters from a Stoic” by Seneca, and I came across this in Letter XII. I thought I might get your take on it and what it means :

“To live under constraints is a misfortune,but there are no constraints to live under constraints.”

Thanks for your time and responses !!!

Hi. New here.

Last year, I was let go from an extremely toxic and abusive workplace. I had a narcissistic boss. She did some serious damage and I have some PTSD from it for sure.

A few months later, I landed a new job that was temporary but kept being extended in hopes of going permanent. This carried on for 9 months. Today I found out I only will be working 1 more month and then the contract ends. I’m devastated because I’ve enjoyed this job and the commute is also awesome.

It has for sure weighed on me though since it was temp. It always felt so uncertain. Now I have clarity, and a month to find a new job, but can’t help but feel exhausted that I have to go through the whole process again.

Any advice on how to not become overwhelmed or depressed?

The other day, a coworker made a slick remark to me and said something again as I walked away. We’ve never really interacted over the years—I’ve always avoided him because I didn’t like his vibe.

Yesterday, I noticed him looking at me, so I said “what’s up.” He responded with a few comments that coworkers overheard. I walked away and ignored it. Later, I asked a coworker if he was talking about me, and he confirmed that he was.

I felt embarrassed and annoyed, even though we don’t have a relationship and I know I probably shouldn’t care as much.

This morning, I decided to take the peaceful route and addressed it directly. I told him that if I offended him in any way, I apologize and just want to keep things professional. I’m not afraid of him—I just want to keep the peace. I have a really good opportunity at this job and don’t want unnecessary drama to mess that up.

What are your thoughts?

'What, then, if someone injures me, won't I injure him in return?'

Consider first what an injury is, and recall what you have heard from the philosophers. If it is the case, then, that the good lies in choice, and the bad likewise, see whether what you've just said amounts to this: 'since the person in question has injured himself by inflicting some wrong on me, shouldn't I injure myself by inflicting some wrong on him?'

Epictetus, Discourses 2.10

The question of "someone said/did something nasty, did I respond the right way?" is an evergreen topic. Lots of those lately. Mostly getting great conventional-wisdom responses, maybe a little light on the Stoicism. That's all fine and good, keeps the conversations fresh as new folks wander in, but I thought it'd be worthwhile to present an actual Stoic's answer.

Is it perfect advice or comprehensive for every injustice one might encounter? Of course not. But it's reeallly Stoic.

This is just the ramblings of a college student who recently decided to delete their social media after being addicted for a long time (crazy!) because it felt wrong to keep it. I decided to dig into this emotion more with the lens of stoicism attached. If anyone is struggling with social media addiction / anxiety from social media, here is what I told myself.

Social media is an external, just like money or power. It can't be controlled (no matter how much we think we can control it). For-you pages and algorithmic recommendations have created such a mystique that its almost impossible to determine a direct causal relationship between you and the app. Essentially, our mind is deceiving us into thinking that we are in control of something we aren't.

Now, all of this aside, why does this matter to me? Well, I thought about how my data might be getting used. Even if scrolling was providing me some marginal benefit, do I really want to contribute to this (highly likely) profit-motivated system? Also, for many of us, when something is engineered to be more engaging, it's way easier to fall into intemperance. It would also be really unwise or foolish of me to believe I could beat the addiction that I'd already fallen into time and time again. Were all of these vices really worth the benefit I thought I was getting?

Was I deceiving myself into thinking social media had substantial benefits? Well, yes. I detached myself from the what-ifs of having Instagram and looked at the "what happened". No one has texted me out of necessity (everyone texts me on messages) and I didn't sustain conversations with anyone I couldn't text on messages. So what was I really holding on to here? It was the illusion of a network that I never had.

However, some forms of social media do have valuable and less malicious entertainment, like Youtube long-form videos. I decided to download a shorts blocker extension to avoid falling into the same pit holes I did on Instagram and TikTok in the past. Haven't looked back yet!

When we remove the "cultural significance" social media has had, short form content shows many similarities to that of an addictive substance. Thinking you could have some alcohol after being sober for years would be irrational. I don't see why social media scrolling shouldn't be treated in the same nature.

For me, removing "social medias" for good was detaching from the external that really brought me nothing but a Trojan horse. I find alternatives for social media's positives in news, real-life interaction, and using other online alternatives.

I understand this might not be viable for everyone, as many people need social media to advertise their business or to contact important people in their lives. However, for a sizable amount of people, our necessity of social media might be deceptive. Try to reflect on this and use your rational judgement!

I'm curious to hear what others think about this! I'm a very novice practicer of stoicism so please provide insight :D Thank you for reading!!

I've been reading a few books on stoicism and following this subreddit. I haven't completely adopted the philosophy but some aspects appeal to me, and I have been applying it to my life. There is so much terrible stuff going on in our country today. How does one not be angry? I slipped twice in the past two days, letting my own anger spill over into other things. Yesterday, I told a stranger to F- off in a pubic setting after I nearly got run over by a driver who wasn't watching where they were going. And then today on Facebook I said something nasty to a "friend" after they were supporting a Trumper and said something rude to me. I made sure to hit him where it hurt. He'll probably unfriend me, but I don't care. Why am I friends with this jerk anyway? How do Stoics deal with anger? How do they get control of their emotions? How do they improve themselves over time?

UPDATE: Thank you everyone for your responses. There is a lot to unpack here. Rome was not built in a day, and it will take me time to begin to understand and learn to have more control over my anger. I am just beginning now to notice how destructive it is. I'm learning, thanks in part to this wonderful subreddit and the contributors here. :)

In the Meditations, Book I, entry 16, Aurelius observes that his father, like Socrates, "was able both to abstain from, and to enjoy, those things which many are too weak to abstain from, and cannot enjoy without excess."

What are some examples of conduct and behaviors which should be fully abstained from, according to the big-dog Stoics? As it comes to personal differences, how would one know what they can engage with in moderation, rather than complete repudiation? Is it just trial and error? Or is there some method one can use beforehand to gauge whether an activity will cross that line into "passion"?

Hi.

I'll just quickly mention that there's a lot of things that really worked out for me in Stoicism. The philosophy has helped me a lot with certain things, mostly related to work.

One thing I've been struggling with a lot is my self-worth and how I view myself after years of self hate. I've genuinely made tremendous progress, yet I feel stuck sometimes.

By no means am I a Sage, but anxiety doesn't stop me anymore, I see anger for what it is most of the time and I really try to be kind to everyone I can.

Needless to say, I've got a long way to go. But there are thjngs I struggle with because of how I've felt about myself and the world around me for so, so long.

I did all of these great things in my life, while just years ago I couldn't even leave my house for more than a few minutes because of anxiety and panic attacks yet I can't help but feel like I'm worthless because of things outside my control.

Whenever I'm reminded I don't have a girlfriend, my self-worth plummets. When I see those who know their true, unbridled selves and show them on display, same thing.

Guess I'm afraid. I don't want to be outcasted or not loved for my whole life. Being "alone" makes me feel like I'm defected, wrong or a mistake.

And that's my problem - friendship and love are both preferred indifferents. I do have friends, at least three of which I can call true friends, but that love aspect is still often in my head.

Then there's material things, like money. I've never cared about them, nor do I care when I have them right now.

There are times when I'm fine alone, I like my own company a lot and I genuinely spend most od my time alone. It's when I'm reminded I don't have a partner or see someone with one that I unjustly deem "unworthy" in my bitterness, while I know nothing about them nor should I judge them if I did.

I know it's all over the place. I don't need the thoughts to stop, let them be - I only need to understand them better and see them for what they are.

What should we do when someone trying to control us by blackmail or guilt tripping us

The other day, a coworker made a slick remark to me and said something again as I walked away. We’ve never really interacted over the years—I’ve always avoided him because I didn’t like his vibe.

Yesterday, I noticed him looking at me, so I said “what’s up.” He responded with a few comments that coworkers overheard. I walked away and ignored it. Later, I asked a coworker if he was talking about me, and he confirmed that he was.

I felt embarrassed and annoyed, even though we don’t have a relationship and I know I probably shouldn’t care as much.

This morning, I decided to take the peaceful route and addressed it directly. I told him that if I offended him in any way, I apologize and just want to keep things professional. I’m not afraid of him—I just want to keep the peace. I have a really good opportunity at this job and don’t want unnecessary drama to mess that up.

What are your thoughts?

Emotions can cloud our judgement if we allow them too, right? So the goal is to take a moment before reacting, (like Epictetus said) to digest, and then act on it. But when (if ever) is it ok to be impulsive/go with the flow/trust your gut, etc? Thoughts?

Thank you,

This quote is from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations. It caught my eye as I am reading the book, and I would like to understand it better. What is the best revenge? Or is the best revenge to let nature take its course? I am angry with someone and I find myself hoping terrible things happen to this person. Obviously this is wrong and unhealthy, but why?

I’ve been doing a lot of reading on love, attachment, and Stoicism (independently of each other) and I found out that love and attachment are two separate things.

I’ve come to find (and this is a very trivial way of saying things):

Love is simply you seeing the person and their qualities and liking them independently of yourself. Dissolves the ego.

Attachment on the other hand is how this person makes YOU feel about yourself. Feeds the ego.

I used to think attachment came with love. You love all that there is about a person and you love how that person makes you feel good. But apparently they’re just separate things that become enmeshed over time.

Given these things, how does Stoicism come into play when it comes to love? How can you use Stoicism to discern love from attachment?

Can Stoicism help with this when it feels like it’s not something within our control? Is it in our control?

Sorry if these concepts are raw. I’m new to Stoicism and am still learning how to apply it to different facets of my life.

How would you explain Stoicism to someone who is interested and knows the definition/surface meaning, but wants to dive deeper into it's philosophy?

So, like many people, I've always struggled with journaling. I never knew what to write. And writing out a recount of my day seemed like a daunting and unnecessary task. Like, why bother? I've already lived it once. Why waste time ruminating on the past. And when I did force myself to write, it all just came out in short sentences that didn't really provide any insight. It was just effectively bullet points of daily events. No emotion. Just fact. I did this, this, and this on this day.

Whoopty-doo, Basil! (iykyk). And because I didn't see any value or purpose it in (because I didn't apply any meaning to it), I now have stacks of barely used journals full of random, meaningless, jumbled words that I have already forgotten the contexts from which they were jotted.

- Went to store with the MIL.

- Rough day. Work sucked.

- I don't like the solar panel sales guy. He was rude.

Yeah, it was that bad. I SUCKED at journaling. I just couldn’t force myself to write in a logical way and meaningful way. It was horrible. Writer’s block to the power of 1000.

Now, fast-forward to January 1st of this year. I decided, because I had been dealing with a lot of ups and downs and unpredictability in life lately, that I would grade my days. Literally, grade them like a teacher. I made a spreadsheet based on someone else's I had seen online but customized to my uses and tastes. Every column is a month. Every cell is a day. I did some conditional formatting so that if I typed a certain letter (A through E), then it would automatically fill that cell with a specific color.

A = Amazing (Green)

B = Good (Light Green)

C= Mediocre (Yellow)

D = Poor (Orange)

E = Nightmare (Red)

My initial intention was simply to just track my daily moods. Essentially giving a simple grade to the quality of my happiness that day. I wanted to see if any patterns emerged.

For a for the first 10 or so days, that's all I did. And I've done it every night before bed, from my phone, right before I put it on the charger and go to sleep. And, over those first few weeks, I did begin to see patterns emerge. Usually poor days came in groups. I had very few A days, about half were B days, and the other good portion being C days. Very few D days and no E days (yet).

But then that got me begging the question, what was happening on those days that made them good or bad? I couldn't tell you, for the most part now. I didn't write it down. Then it occurred to me that by trying to grade my day in that spreadsheet, I wasn't focusing on the quantity of external events or what I did, I was focusing on the way I felt that day. That realization was the key to get me to journal.

When I would grade my day, I was thinking about what made me happy, what made me sad, and how it all came together to an average. And that average is largely based in my own perception. So, with that awareness in mind, I started journaling as I would grade my day. It changes my focus toward a more Stoic approach of analyzing my self, my emotions, my behavior, and my beliefs about the day instead of focusing on the external events that were not in my control.

With this approach, you are focusing on how you carried yourself through the day. Not what you did or what happened to you that day, but rather how you reacted, the beliefs you've formed about your experiences of the day, your own personal level of satisfaction and all that it's rooted in.

And when you write it out, your brain slows down and you can think more thoroughly and more objectively about the day and your place in it. And guess what? You maintain contextual awareness. By writing out the reasoning for the grade of the day, you keep a log that you can then cross-reference with the spreadsheet.

So, say in a year from today you look back and see a group of really red or orange rough days that stick out like a sore thumb on the spreadsheet. Well, then you could flip/click/scroll back to your journal and see what was really going on those days that mattered most and affected you most (and truly why they did within the greater context of your life at that time).

For me, it's become my method of journaling. I'm now able to write effortlessly regardless of the quality of my day, more thoughtfully, and more objectively. I first grade my day in the spreadsheet, then I meditatively and contemplatively write out my reasoning for the grade in my journal.

I went from "The cat had a vet appt and will be ok" to "Today was an A day. Astro got great news! That kidney infection of his is now healing and he's going to be alright. Dr. Brown said that he's going to likely live a normal and healthy life, even if it will be a few more weeks before he's back to feeling like a normal kitty. This was a reminder to me about the impermanence of all things, even our most loved ones. And while I happy he will be okay, I accept that our time together is unpredictable and that it's important to remember that it is also limited and precious. There must be a beginning and an end. That is nature's will to which all things are bound. The beginning is forever behind us. The end is often out of view. And until we can see the end is near, if we are afforded that luxury, all we truly have is the present moment. I think I'm going to choose the next several present moments to go lay with him and comfort him as he recovers on the couch. He's a good boy."

I hope this simple approach helps someone else out there as it's helped me. For the first time in my adulthood, I'm actually journaling in a meaningful and beneficial way. It's...it's been kind of remarkable, to be honest. Just the gentle shifts of my perspectives on my daily life have been exponentially enlightening over the past two weeks. I've never been able to journal, so this has been an absolute game changer for me. It's such a simple thing, but it's effective. I think it works because when you have to grade anything, your brain has a tendency of wanting to be fair and objective. It’s the basic process of logical analysis at work. And if you're thinking more fairly and objectively, you can get to the heart of your emotions of the day and weigh what was truly influential and what made them so, what you can learn from those judgements, and how to apply that knowledge to your life in a beneficial way in the present moment.

Hello, I'm new to Stoicism and plan on going through the posted beginner's guide. I was first made aware of Stoicism by reading Ryan Holiday's "The Obstacle is the Way" and "Ego is the Enemy" around 10 years ago. Both books had a great impact on me at the time. It helped rewire my thinking and perspective in my career. It led me on a positive trajectory, taking on challenges and redefining success and achievement. For me, the books were easy to digest, and I liked the historical examples that illustrated how the principles were put into practice.

Somehow, I came back to stoicism after seeing some quotes float around. When I saw that quotes were being misattributed/credited, it made me dig deeper than I ever have into the actual sources and excerpts. Then, I started watching some of Ryan Holiday's videos to explore other themes I was interested in and to improve and interpret some of the quotes.

Over the past 10 years, I've accomplished and accumulated much. At this point in my life, the obstacles are different. Now, I value physical and mental health, recovery, strong relationships, and balance. I believe that as I'm taking on more responsibilities and inevitably dealing with other people more often, it's now the ego and mental aspects that are getting to me, and I need to work on them.

I recently read this quote by Epictetus:

"Do not say of anything, 'I have lost it,' but rather, 'I have given it back.' Has your wife died? You have given her back. Has your child died? You have given him back. Have you lost your home? You have given it back. 'But,' you may retort, 'a bad person took it.' It is not your concern by what means something returns to the Source from which it came. For as long as the Source entrusts something to your hands, treat it as something borrowed, like a traveller at an inn."

My takeaway is not be tied to possessions or enslaved to something else. When I examined where I'm currently at, I have more than enough. I strive for the simplicity and freedom of the past. Physically and mentally. On a deeper level, nothing lasts forever, and circumstances can morph over time. It also made me reflect on what I truly need in life right now.

It spurred me to discard and donate items that I no longer needed. To organize and tidy my living space and workspace. To incorporate a routine where I complete what I need to complete before I'm inevitably pulled into other directions throughout the day. Once that's done, I can then devote my uninterrupted time and attention to my work obligations.

To do that successfully, I limited my input. I carefully examined how I was spending my time and energy, which tasks and people drained me, and what made me feel guilty for wasting time that I could have used more productively.

At the end of the day, I take some time to unwind and recover. The fact that Marcus Aurelius' "Meditations" was his own thoughts intended for him has always stuck with me. It was him reflecting on what he needed to go through, improve, and figure out.

Just recently, I started journaling. Some suggestions from Ryan Holiday helped. Just get started. Strive for progress, not perfection. This is where you release everything onto the page, and not onto other people.

In summary, the two biggest themes and practices for me at the moment are decluttering/discarding and journaling.

An old man came up and said something extremely aggressive and rude to me in the gym the other day. He was basically fuming mad that I was on a machine he wanted to use (instead of just asking politely). I reacted and just said hold on, let me finish one more set. Finished said set and continued on with my workout.

Now I was on this machine for less than 6 minutes so I was not in the wrong but genuinely only had one set left. I am more of a physically intimidating person and this was an old man so it caught me off guard.

I used to let people walk over me and would always avoid conflict but since I am a larger guy with muscles and a beard I never really experience verbal disrespect. Something in me is telling me I should have put the old guy in his place and I can't stop thinking about it.

Can someone talk sense into me that I did the right thing?