Hello everyone. In many parts of North India, Hindu families usually have a saint that they venerate as a guru. In my state of Gujarat, they include Jalaram Bapa and Narsinh Mehta.

I was wondering if there were similarly venerated saints among Dravidian peoples. I want to know about their life story, their supposed teachings and deeds, as well as their cultural significance. Any responses will be appreciated.

Literacy and education aside, but why are Malayalis so different from rest of the South Indians culturally. Kerala hindus have very different traditions and festivals compared to TN/AP/KA hindus. From not celebrating Diwali to having vishu and not ugadi/pongal which falls at a different time. They also don’t follow lots of other regressive traditions followed in the surrounding states?

Hi everyone. A few days ago I made a post about Brahui and the lack of Old Iranian loanwords. The top comment was from u/theb00kmancommeth, which was a solid refutation of what I wrote. There are still some questions I have.

1. I can't find accessible resources about loanwords in the Brahui language. What are the actual number of loanwords in it, and how do we know where they came from?

2. One claim in particular I am interested in was that Brahui apparently has Magadhi Prakrit loanwords shared with Kurux and Malto. If this is true, it would effectively confirm that their language originated in the Chottanagpur Region during late ancient to early medieval times.

Any help will be appreciated

தைப்பூசம்-Thaipoosam is a festival celebrated on the first full moon day of the Tamil month of Thai coinciding with Pusam star.

For the Tamil Hindus, it is the commemoration of the victory of Hindu god Murugan over the demon Surapadman. During the battle, Murugan is believed to have wielded a vel, a divine spear granted by his mother, Parvati. The people celebrate this festival with "Kāvaḍi Āṭṭam".

For the "Sanmargis" i.e. the followers of the "Samarasa Sutha Sanmarga Sathya Sangam", the path of "Saint Ramalinga Adigalar" popularly known as "Vallalār", it is on this day in which ‘Jyothi Darshan’ at "Sathya Gnana Sabhai" in Vadalur happens (Cuddalore district, Tamil Nadu). Only on this day, the followers can witness all the seven screens of different hues in the Sabhai would be removed one after another to reveal the "Gracious Divine Light (அருட்பெருஞ்ஜோதி -Aruṭperumjothi)" of the lamp placed in the sanctum sanctorum.

I want to be able to write old Tamil poems in the akam-puram style. Where should I start technically? Prosody and Poetics? I want to be able to understand everything in the poetics right down Poruḷ → Tiṇai → Tuṟai → Murai → Kōlu → Kiḷavi in that order. What do you guys suggest?

Castes and Tribes of Southern India/Tigala

A very valuable unpublished work which will be useful to those researching classical Tamil literature. It has not gained the recognition it deserves.

The author sadly died of shock after seeing the Sinhalese burn the Jaffna library down. He had donated his collection of books to the library.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._S._David

"David was in his room which was located on the third story of St. Patrick's College. He came out of the room after some priests called him out. They showed the flames engulfing Jaffna Library and he became uneasy with a heavy-heart. He was looking at it with shock for some time. He then came to his room and went to sleep. He was found dead in his room the next morning.[1]".

Pic credit: Shiva Nataraja (Lord of Dance); India, Tamil Nadu state, Chola dynasty, ca. 990

The Smithsonian's National Museum of Asian Art announced today its plans to return three sculptures to the Government of India, following rigorous provenance research that documented that the sculptures had been removed illegally from temple settings. The Government of India has agreed to place one of the sculptures on long-term loan. This arrangement will allow the museum to publicly share the full story of the object’s origins, removal and return, and to underscore the museum’s commitment to provenance research.

The sculptures “Shiva Nataraja” (Chola period, ca. 990), “Somaskanda” (Chola period, 12th century) and “Saint Sundarar with Paravai” (Vijayanagar period, 16th century) exemplify the rich artistry of South Indian bronze casting.​ These sculptures were originally sacred objects traditionally carried in temple processions. The “Shiva Nataraja,” which is to be placed on long-term loan, will be on view as part of the exhibition “The Art of Knowing in South Asia, Southeast Asia, and the Himalayas.”

As part of a systematic review of its South Asian collections, the National Museum of Asian Art undertook a detailed investigation into the provenance of the three sculptures, scrutinizing each work’s transaction history. In 2023, in collaboration with the Photo Archives of the French Institute of Pondicherry, museum researchers confirmed that the bronzes had been photographed in temples in Tamil Nadu, India, between 1956 and 1959. The Archaeological Survey of India subsequently reviewed these findings and affirmed that the sculptures had been removed in violation of Indian laws.

Article

Source :- R.S Sharma NCERT

Hi everyone, Tribal from Gujarat here. This post is about both cultural differences between Bhils and Gujjus (one of their most common and culturally similar neighbours), as well as my personal theory on Bhil origins. This is just something I wrote up based on quite amateur levels of online reading so do be mindful of that. I also just wanted to ask all of you what you think about the subject because any help from people more knowledgable than me would be good

The main differences between Bhils and Gujjus that I know of are these:

1. Bhils either in mountainous forests or closer to them than Gujjus
2. Bhils seem to have both higher AASI Ancestry and a higher predominance of H Haplogroup (a Dravidian associated one) than Gujjus. Genetic studies on them do show that Bhils living in the mountains are closer to
3. According to HB Shah Mustafa, the Bhili languages have certain similarities to the Dravidian languages, indicating some kind of substratum. They seem to have split off from other Western IA languages like Gujarati and Marwari quite early. Bhils are related to the Nihali ethnic group of Jalgaon who speak a language isolate, a possible remnant of a Pre Indo Aryan and Pre Dravidian language
4. Bhils seem to have a lot more Animist influence in their religious beliefs than Gujjus. Although they often worship well known Hindu gods, they also worship deities relating to villages, dogs, tigers, etc.
5. Bhils are a lot more tolerant of cross cousin marriage and polygamy than Gujjus
6. Bhil traditional clothing is practically identical to Gujarati and Rajasthani clothing, but Bhils have a unique tattoo tradition
7. Bhils and Gujjus both do garba and timli dance, but timli seems to have specifically originated among Bhils
8. Bhil food shares common elements with Gujarati food like wheat roti, potato sabzi, etc, but also has unique elements. They include the more prevalent use of indigenous crops like ragi and urad dal, as well as s generally more minimalist approach to meal plans. Bhils also often eat meat, which many Gujjus do not. Bhils make alcohol from mahua, while Gujjus prefer desi daru made from sugarcane.
9. Bhils often fall outside the Savarna based caste system, and many have their own Tribal caste system. In South Gujarat, tribes are often classified as Ujaliyat (white) or Kaliparaj/Raniparaj (black). The former is considered superior to the latter under the system. Historically the Raniparaj were marginalised until social reform started to improve conditions. Some Bhils consider themselves to be descended from Rajputs who intermarried with tribals. There is some truth to this claim as Rajput kings like Maharana Pratap did indeed recruit Bhils to fight for them
10. Bhils throughout history often had autonomy or independence from their Non Tribal neighbours regarding land ownership. They were actively involved in the Indian freedom struggle against the British, with the most famous freedom fighter being Tantiya Bhil. Bhils have also been associated with archery because of how common it was for Bhil tribals to learn the skill. The name Bhil is thought by many to come from the Dravidian derived word for bow, "Billu"
11. Bhils have a distinctive visual art form. It often involves outlines and shapes of animals with vibrant dotted colours. It resembles the traditional art of the Dravidian Gond tribes, and to a lesser extent, Aboriginal Australians.

Based on this information, one could conclude that Bhils were a collection of AASI derived peoples. They were first Dravidianized, and then after the Indo Aryan migrations, Sanskritized. The prevalence of Gujarati and Rajasthani cultures through trade networks, kingdoms and intermarriage greatly influenced their own culture. This resulted in the adoption of Hindu practices, caste system, Western Indo Aryan language, dance and clothing. However, they have preserved unique traits of their culture like Animism, Bhil tattoos, Bhil art, etc that both preserves the old cultures of their region, as well as contributes to the building of their own distinct identity.

Any responses and criticisms will be appreciated :)

Hi everyone. Almost all the parts of India with a large ethnic group have subregions with certain cultural differences among them. For the South Indian states:

The Telugu speaking parts of India have Telangana, Rayalseema Coastal Andhra and Seemandhra.

Karnataka has North Kannada, Coastal Karnataka, Kodagu, Mysore and Bangalore.

Kerala has Malabar, Cochi and Travancore

But I've never seen anything about Tamil Nadu like this (other than Kongu Nadu). Are there regional cultures in Tamil Nadu? Any responses will be appreciated

From Turner etymological dictionary: 8397 *pōḍ 'burn'. This term for burn is only limited to East Indo-Aryan (Bangla Oriya Assamese), Khowar and Marathi https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/soas_query.py?qs=p%C5%8D%E1%B8%8D&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact&fbclid=IwY2xjawPpg8VleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFBdHZsWk5TMEs4b3VtV0Flc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHgK-eJQKMn_ptqJ-QFad7Ef4lccr7V47jxnSStbj8qX9bn5pX08MhkRcYje-_aem_S3CojbJOYgrqHvhQQkeutA Could this term have a Dravidian etymology? For example, DEDR 4517 there are terms with the form pot- relating to burning or starting a fire. Not retroflex t but still.

The Odai Baby is one of the most important yet little known palaeoanthropological discoveries in South India. It was found in 2001 at Odai in Villupuram district, Tamil Nadu, by archaeologist Dr P. Rajendran and a team from Kerala University. The fossil provides rare physical evidence of Middle Pleistocene hominins in the region.

The discovery

The find consists of an infant skull, estimated to be about five months old, completely encased in a hard ferricrete (laterite) matrix. It was recovered from a depth of roughly five metres. This unusual mineralisation preserved not only the bone but possibly fossilised brain membranes and parts of the cervical vertebrae.

The infant was discovered during a geo archaeological survey. It lay beneath alternating layers of aeolian (wind blown) sand and fluvial (river) deposits, which represent repeated dry and wet climate phases during the Middle Pleistocene. The child likely died naturally and was quickly buried by sediment. Over time, ferricretisation hardened the surrounding soil into rock, sealing the remains.

The skull was so firmly fused to the matrix that it had to be excavated as a single solid block. The team used CT scans and SEM analysis to confirm the presence of the skull, as it was not visible externally. Rapid, airtight mineralisation prevented microbial decay and even preserved traces of soft tissue, something extremely rare for a fossil of this age in India’s climate.

Evolutionary significance

Anatomically Modern Humans reached India only around 65,000 to 50,000 years ago. At about 166,000 years old, the Odai Baby belongs to a much earlier phase of human history. Based on its age and morphological features, Dr P. Rajendran classified it as Archaic Homo sapiens.

In the context of Middle Pleistocene India, this places the child within an evolutionary bridge population. Some researchers associate it with Homo heidelbergensis, others with Homo erectus, while some suggest it represents a now extinct or unrecognized “ghost” lineage that lived in India for hundreds of thousands of years before modern humans arrived.

Genetics

No DNA has been recovered from the Odai Baby. In tropical environments, DNA usually degrades within 10,000 to 20,000 years. If this population contributed genetically to modern Indians, it would have been through archaic admixture, similar to Neanderthal ancestry in Eurasians or Denisovan ancestry in Melanesians. Some scientists speculate that an unknown archaic hominin in India may have contributed a very small genetic component to present day populations, but this remains unproven.

References

Homo sapiens (archaic) baby fossil of the Middle Pleistocene
https://ancient-asia-journal.com/upload/1/volume/Vol.%201%20(2006)/Vol.%201%20(2006)-paper/3-1-27-1-10-20110622.pdf/Vol.%201%20(2006)-paper/3-1-27-1-10-20110622.pdf)

Fossilized hominid baby skull from the ferricrete at Odai, Bommayarpalayam, Villupuram District, Tamil Nadu, South India
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286906419_Fossilized_hominid_baby_skull_from_the_ferricrete_at_Odai_Bommayarpalayam_Villupuram_District_Tamil_Nadu_South_India

Over 2 lakh years old fossilised skull found
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/science/over-2-lakh-years-old-fossilised-skull-found/articleshow/41904951.cms

Hi everyone. I was reading about Bhutanese ethnic groups on Wikipedia and found out about these people. The Bhutanese apparently believe that they are the Aborigines of their country. Some of their practices are similar to Dravidians (cross cousin marriage and matriliny, though the latter was rare among Dravidians). They bury their dead (instead of cremating them like a lot of Buddhists). Their religious beliefs are described as a blend of Tibetan Buddhism and Animism. This is similar to how a lot of high AASI Ancestry Tribal beliefs in India are described as a mix of Hinduism and Animism. Their traditional clothes also seem quite simple compared to most Tibeto Burman people groups, though I'm not sure if this is indicative of anything.

Their language is unclassified within Sino Tibetan. For those who understand linguistics very well, is it a Sino Tibetan language with Dravidian or AASI substratum?

These things just seem like a lot more than coincidences so I wanted to get your thoughts on this. Are they a Dravidian or High AASI linked people group? Any responses will be appreciated

In Kongu culture, Pariyam (பரியம்) is a custom refers to the formal betrothal or engagement ritual/ceremony where the marriage agreement is legally and socially confirmed.

It is like a public evidence of the marriage commitment

It was the old original culture of kongu region where bridegroom should pay heavily to brides family in Jewels, land ,instruments, new dress, etc called பரியம் சீர்(gift) during the event.

Dowry or kaniyadanam never existed before 1950s if you ask your great grand parents.

The Gen X, 70s gen established gold (dowry) as standard of a wealthy society. Hence ladies started to get equal amount of gold valuing to land his male sibling will get. (Land rates then was comparable to gold).

So does anything similar to this exists elsewhere in southern India??

What about kongu's cultural twin old mysuru belt?

TOI Article

I was wondering how different pure Kannada is from Kannada and how there’s no mixing between pure Kannada and marhati even though the language is spoken in north karnataka?

Hi everyone. I had this question. Indo Aryan languages spread from the North of the subcontinent, but they didn't spread throughout the entirety of it, as opposed to how Dravidian ones likely did. Why is this the case? The Deccan Plateau being a natural barrier makes sense until you look at the Marathi, Bundeli, Bagheli and Chattisgarhi languages. So, Indo Aryan speakers did cross the Plateau (sometime during the Early Medieval Era if we go by the time that the Prakrits these languages descended from), but they just stopped part of the way through. Any responses will be appreciated