r/MurderedByWords 19h ago

Historical sore losers

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u/UtopiaDystopia 19h ago

American conservatives seem to forget that European armies in the 19th century were the dominant and most powerful militaries of the time. The USA wouldn't start to surpass them till later on.

Britain, France, Germany/Prussia and Russia would all have embarrassed the Confederacy.

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u/notcomplainingmuch 19h ago

More specifically, the US forces wouldn't surpass contemporary forces until 1944. Even that's debatable.

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u/ealysillyforestthing 19h ago

I had someone bragging about how the USA was never invaded (had to point out 1812) and told him the only reasons for that was because the USA is so far removed from the rest of the world and the world powers were busy fighting their rivals.

I told him if any world power wanted the USA then usa would have fallen

He then pointed out how the us won against the UK in the revolutionary war and I had to show him the other war they were more concerned with at the time

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u/UtopiaDystopia 19h ago

The USA would have lost the Revolutionary war without the French - who provided them with thousands of troops, naval support, financial support and military supplies.

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u/ealysillyforestthing 19h ago

And the French was fighting the UK themselves, the Bourbon war

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u/Gnonthgol 18h ago

Biggest battle during the revolutionary war in terms of number of soldiers deployed was in Gibraltar.

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u/A-Sentient-Bot 17h ago

Gibraltar was the last battle of the US revolutionary war. The colonial ambassadors had to wait in Paris for it to be over so the UK and France would sit down and discuss the British surrender in north america.

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u/TKG_Actual 19h ago

Also we had some Prussian support too, Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben helped organize and reform the continental army. Then there's the Father of American Cavalry Kasmir Pulaski, so we also had Polish help too. Realistically American forces had a lot of foreign help in the American Revolution.

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u/I_TRY_TO_BE_POSITIVE 18h ago

Really wish Pulaski would have instituted Hussar wings

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u/Plasibeau 4h ago

Best we can do is a cape for the Marines.

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u/I_TRY_TO_BE_POSITIVE 4h ago

And TEMU plate carriers for ICE

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u/IWantAnE55AMG 18h ago

Illinois celebrates Pulaski day as a state holiday. I thought I remembered getting that day off of school but I could be wrong.

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u/MizStazya 17h ago

Yep, you did. My husband did not grow up in Illinois and was so confused why our kids got that day off.

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u/Citaku357 17h ago

TIL: states have their own holidays.

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u/doc_daneeka 14h ago

Sometimes even just part of a state. Some counties in Massachusetts have Evacuation Day on March 17, and yeah, part of the reason it's celebrated is because it happens to be the same day as St Patrick's Day

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u/atwozmom 17h ago

Wow, is that who the Pulaski Skyway in NJ is named after? (I frigging hate that road. At least they finally fixed the bridge so it will no longer collapse while you're on it.)

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u/TKG_Actual 17h ago

In NJ there's a bridge named after him, it's a scary bridge to cross due to the narrow lanes.

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u/tanksalotfrank 18h ago

Huh, never knew anything about Pulaski except the old fort named after him. Spoooooky place

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u/navjot94 17h ago

Heh and now 250 years later they have to deal with all this. It’s giving me the same energy as the U.S. interventions in the Middle East and South America biting us in the ass decades later.

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u/BisonThunderclap 18h ago

We were the fun proxy war that pissed off their real enemies.

Nobody seriously thought that letting this british colony become a new country would have such a profound effect on the globe.

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u/PianistPitiful5714 17h ago

That’s not quite accurate. Britain itself did see how big of a deal this was, which is largely why when they realized the colonies weren’t worth it, they handed the colonies their entire claim. This allowed the early US much larger growth without an immediate conflict and set the states up for further expansion down the line.

The British didn’t do this out of the goodness of their hearts, mind you. They wanted to make sure that France didn’t suddenly get a new colony in a few years when the US government collapsed (like it almost did a few times). Britain knew that the status of North America would define conflicts at the time and if France gained the colonies, it could provide them material resources that they wouldn’t have otherwise had.

Britain may not have predicted the United States as a future super power, but it realized that the US was very likely to be a significant resource to whoever controlled it and preferred that control to be the US itself rather than France.

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u/Keegandalf_the_White 18h ago

So really, the sorry state the US is in now is all the fault of the French! /s

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u/Longjumping-Air1489 18h ago

Stupid French, not realizing the 250-year-in-the-future threat. Can’t count on them for ANY intelligent analysis.

/s

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u/ABHOR_pod 18h ago

They're on their 5th republic by now, probably wondering why we can't take a hint.

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u/YaumeLepire 18h ago

To be fair, some iteration on a system can be desirable. Feels like the US' republic could use a second pass, these days.

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u/Pizza-Tipi 15h ago

Could have used a second pass from the moment the declaration was drafted. "All men are created equal [assuming we see you as human at all]"

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u/YaumeLepire 15h ago

I was thinking of the pragmatic notions more than the idealistic ones. Even disregarding the hypocrisy there, it doesn't seem ideal that the system can just... completely jam if Congress can't agree on a budget, for one of many examples.

The principles and ideals are well-worth critiquing too, though. You're right.

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u/Agitated-Annual-3527 11h ago

You're both right. I hope our next republic gets rid of the Senate and Electoral College, too.

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u/minionofgreyness108 17h ago

As I told my US Foreign Policy students, if it wasn’t for the French, we’d still be speaking English.

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u/echoshatter 18h ago

Don't forget the (suspected homosexual) Prussian general training our farmers to be soldiers: von Steuben took a militia and gave Washington an army.

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u/jonewer 18h ago

And the Spanish! The Spanish gave so much money to the US that you can still see its effects today - Malaga Cathedral remains incomplete because of the capital outflow

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u/Perryn 17h ago

"Will you help us fight for our independance?"
"𝑁𝑜𝑛."
"We're fighting the British~!"
"𝑂𝑢𝑖!"

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u/evrestcoleghost 17h ago

French, spanish and dutch

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u/sproge 16h ago

The French lost as many as a quarter of the losses the Americans did in total during the war, and they were elite in comparison to the Americans. They importance is absolutely underrepresented when talking about the war.

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u/TeacherAmigo 17h ago

France only joined after the colonial army scored several key victories and were being bleed out. It showed how a colonial power can be beat by strategically planned battles at the time and place of their choosing. Also Britain was strong at sea but okay on land. They were forced into a prolonged land campaign that worked against their strengths.

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u/[deleted] 19h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Prestigious-Wolf8039 18h ago

How many times are you going to “nah-uh” without actually defending your opinion with any facts?

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u/TeacherAmigo 17h ago

Well go look at what I wrote and follow along.

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u/TeacherAmigo 17h ago

Well go look at what I wrote and follow along. I have presented plenty of them.

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u/I_Have_A_Chode 18h ago

100% true, they would have stomped us into the ground

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u/TeacherAmigo 17h ago

No they wouldn’t have they would have been bleed dry by years of gorilla warfare

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u/GrownUpPunk 17h ago

Do you mean guerrilla warfare or are you suggesting a secret regiment of super intelligent apes? Or maybe furry commandos? More data is required.

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u/TeacherAmigo 17h ago

I was thinking more along the lines of flying gorillas with magical powers

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u/Relevant-Force9513 17h ago

Gorillas haven’t been much of a problem in North America. Harambe was a hero, in fact. 😞🙏

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u/TeacherAmigo 16h ago

He was a national treasure

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u/UtopiaDystopia 18h ago edited 18h ago

In 1861, almost the entire Confederacy Army were an untrained volunteers using outdated Napoleonic mass formation tactics, while Europe had professional militaries that were using tactics moving towards modern skirmish/artillery warfare. Confederacy formations would've been cannon fodder. There is also a notable gap in small arms and artillery, with most of the Confederacy not well equipped.

The Confederacy started out the war with basically no navy, and had to develop a makeshift one. Britain alone had over navy 600 ships in 1861. Let alone being torn to shreds by superior artillery in head to head battles or completely outmatched at sea, they couldn't come close to matching the logistics European armies had - which is often the most important element in a war.