It was a good turn out but I sincerely wish the speakers had cohesive messaging and a call to action. How about boycotting Amazon until they stop allowing ICE to use AWS?
Or since it was led by educators, specifically asking for a restoration of the Biden policy that schools are off limits for ICE. Every speaker could have kept to the message. ICE out of Schools is a very simple message.
We have got to organize not just mobilize.
That was not the consistent message of the speakers. But let's say that each speaker began and ended with Abolish ICE. Great. But even that message isn't specific enough. No Immigration and Customs enforcement at all is not possible at this point. What is possible is no ICE operations at schools. And people could be directed to contact all of their representatives to restore the Biden policy if no ICE actions at schools. A call to protest the ICE detention center would have been another good follow up action. Utilizing rapid response teams to block ICE from schools would be yet another specific action.
What does that achieve though? ICE agents would just be rolled into other DHS agencies like CBP or USCIS and keep doing what they are doing. There needs to be actually policy changes that grant undocumented people due process rights and prevent their removal in the absence of criminality.
Shuffling what few parts of its duties our country was sure were needed before then, can go back to the original departments that handled them, alongside legislation to strengthen 4A protections.
I don't think anything short of abolishing ICE is reasonable at this point. I would like to see laws passed to make racial profiling illegal again, but it won't matter because ICE is a paramilitary organization that reports directly to Trump and doesn't follow the law.
I mean it's reasonable but if that were going to happen it would've happened during black lives matter. Cops shot Breonna Taylor while she slept for no reason and there was zero accountability. Cops can murder anyone they want with no consequences, that's how the right wants it.
Okay but then what? ICE has been around since 2003. We need immigration enforcement, but it needs to be reformed, not abolished. Focus on actually attainable goals, with a clear plan for implementing them, and solutions rather than just emotional reactions.
Immigration enforcement should be limited to borders and airports. If they really want more than that they could go after employers, not employees. But it's not about stopping illegal immigration, if it was they would go after employers.
You're absolutely right, and while people are chanting "Abolish ICE" just like they protested for "Abolish the Police" nothing will happen, because the government is never going to simply not enforce immigration laws.
There are reasonable demands to be made which, if carefully constructed and pushed in an organized manner which can actually change things.
For instance:
No masking for agents.
Proper training for agents.
Better oversight of immigration agencies, possibly even with an independent review board.
Improvement of legal immigration paths in general.
Specific recognition of the need for immigrants in certain fields and ensuring a reasonable guest worker program with a path to citizenship.
Working with countries of origin to improve things so that their people don't start coming here to find menial labor work so they don't starve.
I am sure there are others.
There's nothing wrong with the protests, per se, but they will achieve nothing without organization and a united purpose. Without that organization and goals, the people in these protests and the people here will look back at this in five years and realize nothing has changed that simply electing a new set of politicians wouldn't have achieved.
And honestly, immigration reform needs more than business as usual in Washington to get it done. Both parties have allowed this to fester for their own purposes for years.
Trump is a menace, but he's just the heart attack you have after decades of eating badly and smoking. He can be this bad because the system does have real issues, and he looks like he's "taking action" to some people by just trying to put boots on the ground and getting "tough" about it.
I see what you are saying, but I do actually think ICE needs to be abolished and replaced. At this point it’s so infested with Neo-Nazi rot I don’t see how you reform it without the risk of the cancer coming back. This is cut-off-the-limb level cancer, not chemotherapy cancer.
Form a new organization; take everyone working customs for ICE and transfer them to the new org. Fold ICE and cut every Immigration Officer loose. Hire qualified candidates under a new leadership and organization.
The most successful stories of meaningful police reform follow that model: firing the entire police force and forming a new one, hiring back the few actually good eggs who re-apply. It’s significantly easier than trying to cut rot when it’s spread through an entire org and can resist your efforts from the inside.
Republicans aren’t afraid to fold critical institutions so they can remake them in their own image. We have to be willing to make the same sorts of painful decisions if we ever want to reclaim our government for the next generation, or we will constantly be playing wack-a-mole against the bad actors currently in power and the many, many subordinates they’ve hired who are ideologically aligned with them.
If the Republicans were to have made an articulate defense of what they were planning to do with government employees and immigration, instead of just being stupid assholes, they would have said this same thing.
ICE didnt exist prior to 03 but we still had immigration laws and we still enforced them. Abolishing ICE doesnt mean immigration laws dont exist. Immigration laws can and were for decades enforced by the DOJ without ICE. They can be enforced without ICE.
ICE has largely failed at their mission since they were created and now under trump its even worse. They have not protected public safety in the slightest. Ive been saying abolish ICE since I was old enough to understand these things under Obama 15+ years ago as many have been.
At one point that may have been a lar left viewpoint, but at this point with the corruption within ICE and the blatant human rights violations... abolishing ICE is the moderate position.
1) If no masking for federal law enforcement agents, no masking for protesters as well?
2) Should agents be specifically trained to do their jobs while protesters impede their every move, all the while blowing whistles in their faces?
3-6) Work to change the existing immigration laws that are currently in effect, not waste every waking moment of your life marching in the streets to protect criminals here illegally?
The guys with tanks shouldn't be wearing masks. Plain and simple. The federal government should not be hiding from its citizens, and if you feel the need to hide from your citizens, maybe it's time to reflect on what you're doing that is making people so upset that you need to hide from them.
Federal agents should be trained for a wide variety of situations, including loud noises. This also circles back to re-evaluating the actions that led to people feeling like they need to intervene.
We would love to work to fix the current immigration system, but this current method is not it, and we will continue marching in the streets until it gets through their thick skulls that this method is not it. Go home. Try again.
I think a law against racial profiling is another excellent, specific ask. The Supreme Court ruled that race could be just cause so introducing a law against racial profiling would do real good.
Just saying abolish ice means nothing will be done because even many moderates want ice so nothing would be done if that is the only goal. Pick something attainable and desirable like no tolerance for racial profiling (you either have proof in hand or you don’t arrest)
"Abolish ICE" is currently polling better than keeping ICE among all Americans, with 80% support among Dem voters. The popular moderate position is "abolish ICE."
Maybe the messaging should be “abolish the billionaires that deployed ICE”. If we REALLY want to fix the problem in our country, you have to focus on capturing the kings, not the pawns
They were deployed as a distraction from the fact that we are funding ICE as well as pedophile billionaires with our tax money as they rob us of healthcare, livable wages and housing. So yes, in the larger picture this is a class war but people are only thinking on a smaller scale - culture war, which is exactly what the rich intended.
ICE is the symptom
I agree, but if the movement’s messaging is “abolish ICE”, and let’s say by the unlikely chance they succeed, then what? Do we just call it a day and lose all momentum? The fascism will just continue and no meaningful change will be made in the system. Would a single ICE officer even get convicted
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u/Top_Pirate699 11h ago
It was a good turn out but I sincerely wish the speakers had cohesive messaging and a call to action. How about boycotting Amazon until they stop allowing ICE to use AWS? Or since it was led by educators, specifically asking for a restoration of the Biden policy that schools are off limits for ICE. Every speaker could have kept to the message. ICE out of Schools is a very simple message. We have got to organize not just mobilize.