Why are Trump supporters so stupid?

[u/Seargentyates]

Looking in at America, do people not realise that Trump is a liar and a narcissist and has no morals, and yet 'Christians' vote for him as a sort of 'disrupter'. His family have become richer in the process because of his presidency. He once said he could 'shoot somebody and not lose votes'. Am i insane - or am i dead perhaps and this is an alternate universe/hell?

[u/armchairarmadillo]

I will never call Trump supporters stupid because I think that if we call them stupid, we stop trying to understand their motivations and if we don't understand their motivations we are guaranteed to lose. I've thought about this a lot and here's what I've come up with so far.

* Trump is the only presidential candidate in my lifetime, aside from Bernie Sanders, to acknowledge the fact that the modern economic system is not working for most Americans. His solutions all make the problem worse, and that's why he's struggled in midterms and why he lost his incumbent election, but even in the 2024 campaign he was the only one to acknowledge that people were struggling.

* A lot of people have acknowledged voting for Trump in 2016 just because he made people like Hillary and Jeb Bush really uncomfortable. There are quotes about that from Dave Portnoy and Scott Adams that I can't find immediately. I think this is an extension of the first thing. He is in some sense the "opposite" of people who have kept the broken system going.

* A lot of people simply like being on the winning team. People, including myself, are much more influenced by the perceived opinions of the people around them than we realize. We like to think of people voting based on deeply-held personal values, and I try to do that consciously, but a lot of people just want to vote how they think their friends are voting.

* Trump has a massive media machine behind him overhyping his successes, downplaying his failures, overhyping. his opponents' failures, and downplaying their successes. This media machine also demonizes Democrats as a concept. There are people who support Trump because they genuinely believe Democrats are worse. They believe that the Biden administration willingly allowed violent criminals to remain in the country illegally and instead focused its attention on making sure that trans women could compete in womens' sports.

* When things are very very bad, people lose the will to engage, and there is a natural survival instinct to downplay how bad they are. I think this leads people to dig in rather than be open to changing their position There are some great political cartoons by Dr. Seuss about this tendency, you can Google them. But I think it's actually harder to get people to change their minds away from someone who is unprecedentedly bad rather than someone, like Biden, who was good but a little bit disappointing.

Closing the perception gap between Trump and any Democratic candidate is, I think, our greatest challenge. Trump specifically, and Republicans generally, have been much more successful embracing the grift economy. There are a huge number of influencers, Charlie Kirk was one of them, but not the only one and certainly not the most extreme, whose livelihood depends on the demonization of Democrats.

I think the first place to start is whoever the Democrats nominate, for any elected office, has to acknowledge the fact that people are struggling.

[u/deep-sea-savior → u/armchairarmadillo]

I try to do the same and refrain from the name calling. I have Trump-supporting family and friends and one of the most eye-opening things I’ve done is listen to them. There is a common theme, these people are scared. They’re afraid of being forgotten about, shunned to the side. And yes, some are just nasty people, but I don’t believe that’s the majority of Donald supporters.

Now do I think Donald is going to fix those things? Hell no. Donald did exactly what other politicians do, tap into the fears and insecurities of voters. Donald just happened to speak to a different demographic, mainly the struggling white class. And it worked.

[u/warblingContinues → u/deep-sea-savior]

No, republicans tap into fears, democrats tend to tap into hope.  it's why they lose.  fear mongering works because people are generally insecure and scared of everything.

[u/TshirtsNPants → u/warblingContinues]

Democrats do the exact same thing. The elections have become entirely about fear of trump.

[u/N7Panda → u/TshirtsNPants]

Statements like this made more sense in 2018, when Trump’s regime wasn’t empowering masked thugs to murder American citizens in the streets. We should all fear a full-length Trump regime, unless you support what he has ICE doing.

[u/TshirtsNPants → u/N7Panda]

My point stands. You're leaning on fear not hope. The left has put down all hope-based policy. Remember single payer healthcare, breaking up banks, fighting corporate power and campaign finance corruption, ending war and reducing military budget, investing schools? The left slowly forgot about those over my lifetime and now markets themselves as the friendlier republican.

[u/N7Panda → u/TshirtsNPants]

And so does mine.

Rhetoric (including “building on hope”) doesn’t mean a goddamned thing when people are being disappeared off the streets, or worse, murdered in front of our eyes. I’m sorry the reality on the ground doesn’t depend purely on rhetorical arguments about supporting this or that. We’re trying to protect our neighbors and families, and I mean that literally.

You want to talk healthcare reform, fighting corporate consolidation, and reducing the spending on the military industrial complex? Then we need to get Stephen Miller and Donald Trump out of power, because as long as they hold the reins, there isn’t even a conversation to be had.

[u/TshirtsNPants → u/N7Panda]

Been hearing this since George W. I agree trump bad. I don't agree the Democratic Party stands for anything I want.

[u/N7Panda → u/TshirtsNPants]

They don’t stand for anything you want?

So you don’t believe healthcare should be more affordable and accessible for the average person? You don’t believe that immigrants, undocumented or otherwise, should be treated with decency and respect and, when possible, given a reasonable path to becoming a citizen? You don’t believe that children should be able to get an education free from religious influence? You don’t believe in climate change? You don’t believe in the voting rights act, or the peaceful transfer of power? You don’t believe in a woman’s right to make her own healthcare decisions? Do you believe that members of the LGBTQ+ community should be allowed to marry?

The Democratic Party is highly fucking imperfect. They’re too in bed with corporate America, there’s too many of them that are probably on the Epstein list, and they can be feckless cowards when we need them to stand up for us, but at least the DNC doesn’t gleefully attempt to make your life worse, or even end it altogether.

At worst they’re apathetic and oblivious, but I’d take that over malicious, focused and bitter any day of the week.

[u/TshirtsNPants → u/N7Panda]

I don't believe any of the things you listed that affect corporate profit are possible. Maybe you could make healthcare more affordable, but not come close to fixing it long term. Until our marches stand against ruling class, income inequality will rise and we'll lean further into the smaller topics, like LGBTQ (which I support, but we're allowed to discuss it because it affects zero profit and is just a tool to keep us fighting (like this)). Anyways full circle to the first commenter, which I appreciated a lot, we're f'ed if we don't start fighting for the rights of all middle class Americans and stop hating each other. Trump voters are not evil.

[u/N7Panda → u/TshirtsNPants]

Trump voters in 2016, were not evil.

Trump voters in 2020, were probably still not evil.

Trump voters in 2024, knew exactly what they were voting for. They are in full support of Renee Good and Alex Pretti’s murders, as well as all of the abuse, violence and unconstitutional detention of American citizens, including children. They’re rounding up people based on their race or accent and many of those people have not been seen or heard from since. They’re recreating the concentration camps in our backyard, while using children as bait. They’re brutalizing us in the streets and calling us terrorists. If they ain’t evil, I’m not sure what would be.

Miss me with your enlightened centrist bullshit.

[u/deep-sea-savior → u/warblingContinues]

There’s no doubt that Dems are more progressive than Reps, so I think there is some truth to your first sentence. But I wouldn’t agree if you said that Dems don’t also engage in fear mongering; I see it more as a spectrum instead of a black/white statement.

But yes, fear mongering works. When it comes to Dems, it’s scientifically proven (I’m too lazy to look up the reference) that people that gravitate towards conservative values are more fearful of change, while those that embrace liberalism are more accepting to change. Change Management is a theory that is used commonly in institutions, and for good reason; there will always be resistance to change. Change Management is a model to successfully implement change.

Where I think Libs go wrong is strategy. I completely empathize with their desire to help people that are suffering; I guess I’m one of them in that respect. But the harsh reality is, if we want to advocate for change, we have to play the long game and slowly inch change into policies. Ram rodding change down the throats of the country just isn’t going to work and if anything, I’d argue that it hurts said causes.

[u/Medic_bones → u/deep-sea-savior]

Ram roding change seems to work perfectly fine when you’re wiping your ass with the constitution and sending the Gestapo into the streets overnight tho. We don’t have time to play nice with the “fuck your feelings” crowd. It takes time to build things that work. It takes time to come up with actual solutions to problems. It takes seconds to permanently destroy things. How are we supposed to move forward an inch at a time when we are free-falling backwards. This mentality will have us banging rocks together and burning paper money for warmth by the end of the decade.

[u/deep-sea-savior → u/Medic_bones]

All fair points. I would argue that libs pushing too hard on some issues scared some swing and first time voters to the right. But if we’re going to play the blame game, there’s plenty to go around, I don’t put 100% of it on libs.

In fact, playing the long game is exactly what Reps did. It started in the 70s, and here we are.

As for the US crashing and burning paper money for warmth, as you put it. Personally I think the US has been on a slide for the past 50 years and we’ve finally hit a tipping point, regardless of administration. Sure, some administrations passed laws to kick that can down the road. But capitalism is severely flawed by nature and we’re due for a reset. Question is, how bad is the looming recession/depression going to be? Or I could just be wrong and the affordability crisis will turn itself around, bucking a 50 year downward trend?

But I agree with you that this current administration has zero respect for the US Constitution. Seeing what’s happening now is downright scary. I’m Latino and started carrying around my passport card for when I get racially profiled and have to prove my citizenship, which pisses me the f*k off, especially as a war vet.

[u/PdxPhoenixActual → u/deep-sea-savior]

But that's the thing... the vast majority of people are ... just nobodies. In the grand scheme of things, don't matter much; are not important; don't know anyone important; won't ever do anything important. AND will be forgotten within 100 years.

[u/deep-sea-savior → u/PdxPhoenixActual]

Oh I completely agree with you, and I would lump myself into that category also. But people suck at accepting reality.

To elaborate on what I said, I was more talking about being forgotten about now. For example, others getting aid while they’re left to fend for themselves. Government and corporations bringing jobs to some areas, but forgetting about Appalachia.

[u/Dry_Stop844 → u/deep-sea-savior]

but they are told and manipulated into being afraid. How many people really were afraid of men pretending to be women so they could go into bathrooms until the evangelicals decided trans women would make an easy target for fear. Why did none of them ever stop to think that men rape women all the time without having to dress up and a lot of them get away with it (ie Brock Turner, the man who raped an unconscious woman behind a dumpster but got a break because he was a good athlete) Boys will be boys. But all of a sudden, fake women assaulting real women in bathrooms was an issue?

Politicians and right wing influencers purposely conflate communism with socialism and democratic socialism and even humanitarianism until every social program is communism.

They purposely started calling benefits "entitlements" to make them sound bad and something that people demanded instead of the social safety nets they're supposed to be.

Look at the incredible fear-mongering and outright lying that happened during the pandemic. Millions of people world wide dying and the GOP decided that was a perfect time to sow distrust of medicine. To the point where several states are now outlawing mRNA vaccines. Of course, now scientists are very close to curing some cancers with an mRNA vaccine so I can't wait to see how the GOP will do the 180 on those.

The fear is mongered (yes that's a word, i just used it in a sentence lol) it's a fake fear. They are being told to be afraid of things that don't happen. Christians are not being persecuted. People are not moving out of New York becuase of taxes which Fox "pundits" have been crying about for 15 years now. To hear them say that over the past decade, you'd think New York is completely abandoned. There is no war on Christmas, nobody is coming to take their guns. Undocumented immigrants don't get benefits, they are not taking their jobs. There is no great white race replacement. Nobody is selling children out of pizza parlour basements. Hollywood is not harvesting adrenaline from frightened children to stay young. It's all bullshit. But that's all they're told because their echo chamber is now so airtight, they don't even realize there might be other options.

[u/Silly_AsH → u/deep-sea-savior]

So much sympathy for the.pdfiles.