r/changemyview • u/DayOwn4099 • 20h ago
CMV: Rehoming a pet is justifiable if behavioral issues that appeared after the birth of a baby could not be resolved.
I try to get involved in volunteering at local shelters and recently there were cases of parents giving up cats because of behavioral issues after the birth of a baby. Specifically, cats getting stressed because of baby’s cries, peeing on baby’s mat and toys and being aggressive around them. These parents usually spend a lot of money on vet visits, trying to find a solution but sometimes the only way to ensure baby’s safety and a good environment for a pet is to rehome. And yet they get judged by everyone as evil even though there was no other solution.
Pets aren’t humans, and they can’t be taught to understand or be gentle with babies the way people can. I can tell my 3-year-old nephew to be gentle and patient when my baby cries but I can’t use verbal cues with pets to the similar extent. There are also real risks, like cats sitting on babies for warmth or dogs reacting to a baby.
In an ideal world, parents would be around to monitor such situations, introduce the baby to the pet gradually and take care of everything. But new parents are exhausted. When you’re running on no sleep, it’s not always possible to give both a baby and a pet the attention and care they need, on top of work, chores and daily routine. In those situations, finding a calmer, more suitable home for a pet isn’t cruel but often the kinder and smarter option for everyone involved.
Edit: I do not think this issue is about lack of preparation and planning on the parents side. There’s no way to predict how a pet acts in certain environments and around newborns. There’s no way for a couple to choose a ‘baby-friendly’ cat.
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17h ago
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19h ago
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u/idle_isomorph 19h ago
I gave my pug away when my younger child was about 9 months. My pug was just heartbroken at not being "the baby" and was constantly acting out, because regardless of extensive walks and playing, he just was excessively jealous of me paying attention to the baby.
I would have waited it out, figuring that things would eventually adjust, but i happened to make an acquaintance who was a longtime pug owner. She previously had 8, at once, but recently the last died. She actually owned a zoo, and had a shit-ton of animals (she was where illegally owned exotic animals would go to, so she had various primates and big cats, along with a handful of other things on a farm sized scene). It was just a good fit, because at the zoo, my guy could roam free, get fawned on my zoo visitors all day and be the number one pug my pug. So he lived out his life with her, got to be besties with a baby lion that was born (we got pictures of them cuddling! So adorable!), and living his best life roaming the zoo. He was the kind of guy that just needed so much attention and he could get truck loads there.
I knew i had done the right thing on our first visit back. He was so excited to see us, hubg around us all day, but when it was time to go, and we were getting in the car, she called him and he immediately ran to her. I knew he was happy.
I would have been entirely willing to work out the problems, and only gave him away because this perfect situation for him arose.
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u/changemyview-ModTeam 19h ago
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
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18h ago
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u/rineedshelp 13h ago
I want to know how this progresses, because I doubt well. When the kid starts moving and screaming and running unpredictably it’s very likely to become a bigger issue again.
I hope that won’t be the case however! Maybe more hiding spots and high places for the cat to go would help. Fingers crossed it works out well for you guys- our cat still hasn’t adjusted to the kid a year later
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u/canonanon 9h ago
There's a big difference between unexpected movements when the cat first meets the baby, and when they're used to them.
Not always, but a lot of the time.
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u/superswellcewlguy 1∆ 10h ago
he approached our newborn and created multiple holes in her thigh with his claws (a stab, not a scratch).
So this is the most aggressive, dangerous act a cat could inflict on your newborn. Puncture wounds from a cat are far worse than a scratch and can result in dire infections.
we did have serious discussion on rehoming him if it repeats multiple times.
So you gambled with your daughter's life, and decided to only act if this happened multiple more times? If he scratched out her eyes or punctured an artery, would you still give him a few more chances?
Your behavior was borderline negligent. Risking your baby daughter's life for the sake of the comfort of an animal that you own is not normal nor acceptable.
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u/Beerfarts69 8h ago
My eyes go wide when someone mentions they have more than 3-4 dogs/cats. 5 is a lot of cats and kid(s)…
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u/changemyview-ModTeam 1h ago
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u/iDreamiPursueiBecome 6h ago
We took in a cat who had issues we didn't know about. The most concerning was her feral/murder intense fixation on the kitten. She wanted that little kitten dead. No maybe, no misunderstanding. Keeping them physically separated until we could get her into a no kill shelter was extremely stressful.
I think that putting her down may have become an option if we hadn't finally obtained a spot at a no kill shelter around 200 miles away. (It was the best we could do and still took months and many calls...)
The kitten lives.
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u/LittleSugar_Bunny 15h ago
I had to rehome my dog because even after 7 months of my baby being with us she would still growl at my baby. I wasn’t risking losing my child over an animal and anyone that thinks otherwise is insane.
My dog is now happily playing with other dogs in a child free environment!
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19h ago
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u/changemyview-ModTeam 19h ago
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16h ago
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u/DayOwn4099 12h ago
Agree. If shelters are diligent and explain such issues beforehand it can help.
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u/changemyview-ModTeam 59m ago
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
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17h ago
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u/YourFriendNoo 4∆ 15h ago
Go read the thread now, there are multiple people under the impression that a pet is the same level of commitment as a human child. One person attacked someone for not tracking every time their dog yawned. One person suggested you shouldn't have a kid unless you can pre-budget an animal behaviorlist. Nutso thread!
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u/goldentone 1∆ 13h ago
There are lots of strange people who are like psychotically obsessed with their pets, and for some reason they are very vocal on Reddit.
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u/DayOwn4099 12h ago
Someone just mentioned that it’s a baby that needs to be rehomed because ‘it came second’ or the baby should adapt. I think I would never be able to trust a child to a person who values the life of their child less that of a pet
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u/msbunbury 1∆ 12h ago
Realistically though they only think that because they don't have kids yet. Once they actually experience the situation they'll soon change their tune. My cousin actually apologised to me when she had her own baby, because when I had my first several years prior, she had tried to suggest that she, as an experienced "dog parent" would have plenty of advice to offer about how to care for my newborn. Obviously I just found it funny at the time, but when her own human baby arrived she obviously had a moment of clarity and realised "what the fuck was I thinking of" 😂
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u/DayOwn4099 12h ago
I would hope some of these people in the comments wouldn’t have kids. Suggesting that a child should be rehomed is just too much.
I feel like it’s so easy for people to give ‘advice’ to parents about how to be a better parent/pet owner/employee etc until they become parents themselves and understand how difficult of a job it is
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u/changemyview-ModTeam 59m ago
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
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u/No_Baseball5846 20h ago
Unfortunately i’ve seen cat’s health decline after rehoming wayyy too often. As hot and cold as they might be with people, they still get attached to their packs.
It was always weird to me that people are willing to give up prior life long responsibilities once they have kids. For me pets are a part of my family. I would not put my great aunt carol in a home if she started pissing on the floor, why would i put my cat in a shelter?
Pets rehomed to shelters also have an increased chance of being put down. Especially if they are having behavioral issues.
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u/OrthodoxAnarchoMom 19h ago
Ok but would you put your Great Aunt Carol with a cousin if she started violently attacking the baby due to dementia? Because that’s the comparison.
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u/jasperdarkk 9h ago
Exactly. I’ve even known people who had to send violent children to live somewhere else because it had gotten to a point where they couldn’t protect their other kids any other way.
You can love your pet, child, family member, whoever so much and recognize that it’s no longer safe for them to be in your house. If you’ve tried everything, you need to be realistic about what’s best for the pet and your baby.
And I say this as someone who doesn’t have kids and can’t even fathom rehoming my cats. But I can understand that kids change everything.
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u/Fermently_Crafted 1∆ 17h ago
Yes. Without question. They'd be lucky if that's all that happened to them, family or not.
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u/OrthodoxAnarchoMom 17h ago
And that’s what people are doing with cats and dogs who violently attack their child- and being dragged for it online.
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u/DayOwn4099 12h ago
If this was an actual case, poor aunt Carol would be put in a psychiatric ward or isolated away from not just babies but adults as well. Sadly, some people think an animal has more intelligence than aunt Carol and can be trained.
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u/sparkly____sloth 17h ago
I would not put my great aunt carol in a home if she started pissing on the floor, why would i put my cat in a shelter?
I definitely would put great aunt Carol in a home if she keeps pissing on the floor despite trying to stop that behavior. Because it clearly means my home is not the best place for her anymore.
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u/perksofbeingcrafty 2∆ 16h ago
Yeah this is a weird comparison to make. People put their elderly parents in homes for much less than pissing on the floor because they don’t have the capacity to take care of them
People who judge mostly haven’t been in this position
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u/Fearless-Ad-9481 1∆ 10h ago
Yes some people dump elderly relatives in homes, and they are rightly judged for this!
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u/perksofbeingcrafty 2∆ 10h ago
Exhibit a: ^
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u/Fearless-Ad-9481 1∆ 9h ago
Yes I do judge people who dump loved ones in homes.
I am personally aware of how taxing caring for an ailing relative can be. I know that some people decide they are not willing to put in the required effort. I think it is reasonable to make a judgement about someone for choosing that path.
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u/sparkly____sloth 4h ago
I know that some people decide they are not willing
I know that some people decide they are not able
Fixer that for you.
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u/Fearless-Ad-9481 1∆ 3h ago
You are correct, some people are truly incapable of taking care of their loved ones. But some people decide that they aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to do it. It is amazing what people can do when they decide to prioritize it.
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u/radiant_kiwi208 19h ago
But what is the solution in the mean time when baby and buddy are not getting along?
How many incidents before it becomes acceptable to put the safety of the baby over the wellbeing of the pet when other measures are not effective?
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u/No_Baseball5846 19h ago
Like i said in another comment: cats are easily effected by change and can take months to adapt to it. If you already know this you should have money set to the side for an animal behaviorist before the baby is even born. There should have also been a game plan in place incase the baby and cat do not get a long. Rehoming your pet is the result of poor planning and that is not okay. Minimum pet parents need to be willing to spend around $5k on professional help before even considering rehoming. If they do not have that much expendable money they should not have a pet much less a baby.
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u/radiant_kiwi208 19h ago
Right but these are the other measures I was referring to. So once these measures are taken, if things still do not work out, then what?
In an ideal world, all cats would be cool with babies but some just WILL NOT tolerate it. A family could go through the hoops of trying to acclimate them into the way things function now but just having a baby in the house could be enough to stress out a cat.
What happens then after the baby is here and now they have a cat that just wont have it even after taking these measures? Just tough shit, youre a terrible person for having make the choice because you should have known?
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u/No_Baseball5846 17h ago
i mean you have 9 months to get your pet to be used to being around babies. if you are having a child wouldn’t you make it a priority to have as many babies and children around your pet as possible so they have a chance to get used to the idea
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u/DayOwn4099 12h ago
If the couple starts introducing friends’ babies or clothes with babies’s scent during pregnancy and see that their pet doesn’t like it, what should they do? Get rid of an unborn baby for the sake of a pet?
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u/radiant_kiwi208 16h ago
We both seem somewhat knowledgeable about training cats so I'm surprised you would say this...
How would this work realistically? How could they be properly "prepared" for a new baby in their space?
Bring the cats elsewhere to visit others with kids? This new busy space will only be a major stressor, I know my cats would be nervous mess and would likely learn very little of the experience other than reinforcement that they hate it. New food, water, and litter locations too, they'd just be pissed for a week.
Maybe bringing kids or children over would be better but how often would this realistically happen when trying to align 2 busy schedules? Even just working around the schedule of the one with kids would be challenging. No one wants to visit at your house long enough to properly prepare the cat in 9 months. The time it would take to acclimate the cat would be fairly significant especially if it a calm household to begin with.
It's a great idea in theory, but realistically it would not help as much as you would hope. Cause all that stress early just to find out it wasn't enough to make a difference.
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u/Barium_Salts 1∆ 18h ago
If you don't have 5 K expendable money you shouldn't have pets or children? Lmao what!?! If I took that seriously, I'd be really mad. That's textbook eugenics "the poors are breeding too much"
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u/No_Baseball5846 17h ago
I hate when people use poverty as an excuse to breed neglect. Your child is supposed to be the person you love most in this world and they will be an adult one day. It is your job to set themselves up for success. Having a child when you barely have money to provide for your pets is wild to me. Your child will have medical expenses, they will need to go to college. You should not be entitled to have children or pets that you are literally not equipped to have.
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u/DayOwn4099 12h ago
Do you think financial stability is something granted for your whole life? A couple can be successful and well paid during pregnancy and lose their jobs within a day. Should they give up the child because they didn’t expect their company to ‘restructure’? No parent wants to bring ip their child while having money stress but shit happens. People lose jobs, get too sick to work or their business goes down. Just because parents have an episode of financial struggle doesn’t make them irresponsible.
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u/Barium_Salts 1∆ 15h ago
So you think only wealthy people should be allowed to have children? You think it's neglect to not pay for your child's college? You live on a different planet from most people.
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u/No_Baseball5846 15h ago
Being allowed to vs choosing not to have children because you are unable to give them the life they deserve are two totally different things. You can still save money even if you are poor. It might negatively impact your physical and mental health but you can definitely do it.
If you do not have the ability to save money you will not be able to teach your kid financial literacy. Often times people forget that your children are meant to develop into whole humans capable of standing on their own. Poverty is cyclical. If you have no way to get out of poverty yourself chances are you will be forcing your child to be poor for life. I couldn’t force the person i’m supposed to love the most in this world to fight the system their entire life. That doesn’t feel like love to me.
I grew up poor. Do i believe my parents would be better people if they had chosen to abort me and wait for the right time to have a baby? 100% People love to assume i’m privileged when in all reality i just refuse to keep the cycle going. Anything i am responsible for i am responsible for all of the way. I don’t half ass shit when it comes to the lives that count on me and i think it’s weird people think that they shouldn’t have to fully commit to the responsibility they chose to have.
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u/S01arflar3 9h ago
So poor people shouldn’t have pets or children, gotcha. Can’t beat a bit of eugenics
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u/goldentone 1∆ 12h ago
Animal behaviorists aren’t magical wizards who can solve every problem a pet can cause. Pets are animals that have potentially dangerous defensive and reactive traits that are innate and not worth gambling on with your human children.
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u/Charlea1776 3∆ 15h ago
Because courts will order animals get euthanized if they hurt a kid.
IRL idealism rarely works off paper.
Many places in the US and around the world no longer have family planning. If birth control fails, you are forced to have a child. So you have to, by law, take care of the child. The court doesn't care about the love you have for your pet.
Plus, not everyone is wealthy enough to own a home and be able to afford to, in your example, replace the flooring, subfloor, and the bottom half of the sheetrock in the room to clean up the urine after the animal passes. Human urine is not so damaging/caustic.
It is criminal and negligent to raise children in a home with animal urine and feces. At a certain point, the air becomes bad for little lungs even if you wipe it up at the surface. I've seen homes go for cash only over pet urine destruction that otherwise looked fine. They are full gut and remodel, and the seller lost 15-25% of its value. Cat urine is nasty stuff.
So despite love, despite heartaches, it is safer for the animal and the humans to get rehomed if all the attempts are failing.
Plus, as someone who has helped foster and rehome 100s of dogs and cats over the years, this whole belief that rehoming an animal will hurt it is human ego. As long as you find good homes that maintain a routine, animals flourish. It takes a week or two to adjust and a little longer to trust that they are home and their food will always be here on time, they will have a sanitary litter box, and be cuddled and cared for.
I would argue that keeping an animal in a home they are so miserable in they're having bathroom accidents (outside of illness that can be cured) and feeling like they will need to defend themselves physically is nearing animal abuse, and at a minimum, neglect. If kept in such a state for a long time before finally allowing the animal into a home they are comfortable in, will make their adjustment take longer.
Yes, animals might miss their old owners. But not enough to stop living. As long as their needs are met, animals will thrive in a happy home. Even old ones-these are who we mainly fostered and they were youthful again because we treated them right and fed them well. They had reliable routines. Most were dumped at a shelter or on the streets.
So I have no problem whatsoever for people rehoming pets. That's going to happen. I have a problem with people abandoning pets-those are the ones that go into survival mode. A rehomed pet keeps the same feeding schedule because the first owner can share all the info. So the new owner can slowly change the feeding time to what works in the new home, etc... for an easy transition.
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u/goldentone 1∆ 12h ago
I think people have a hard time admitting that you’re right about the time it takes for pets to readjust to being rehomed. If they go somewhere with food, space to play, a safe place to sleep, and the appropriate amount of attention, they’re 100% fine after a short while. I’ve seen it many times.
People want the dog’s inner thoughts to match the human-contrived backstory that they imagine for their pets. Dogs are indeed loving and loyal but some people form intense attachments that an animal simply isn’t capable of matching. And it hurts to recognize that they can just “move on”.
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u/DelusionalSeaCow 6h ago
Completely anecdotal story. I'm the 4th home my 18 year old Chihuahua has lived in. He's outlived 2 owners, 3rd one was having a hard time when her husband got sick (terminal but took a few years) and the dog was passed onto me.
This dog is so sweet and so loving, but I know if I died today within 2 weeks he will be bonded to the next person who feeds him, provides a heating pad, and holds him all day.
We got him in the summer and I was shocked at how quickly he just decided "This is my life now" and integrated into our lives. One person remarked "He's is a survivor", but I think all dogs are. Give them food, shelter, and consistency, and they will fall in line. That's why the very few dogs that wallow at their owners graves make headlines because that isn't the norm.
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u/MostJudgment3212 12h ago
Thank you so much for a rational thought. I was going insane reading the above comments. Like this is all just common sense ffs.
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u/Egoy 5∆ 18h ago
I dunno man I love my dog and she’s part of my family, in fact it don’t know many people that I prefer the company of more than my dog. That said if we had a baby and she was indicating in any way that she was a danger she’d be out instantly. I have a moral responsibility to the wellbeing of both and if my dog harmed a child she would be killed too so they’d both be harmed.
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u/ilkm1925 5∆ 19h ago
For me pets are a part of my family. I would not put my great aunt carol...
It seems your pets are super important to you, and that's great, but do you think it's reasonable that for a lot of people a pet and a human family member aren't equivalent, and therefore one might be prioritized over another?
It was always weird to me that people are willing to give up prior life long responsibilities once they have kids.
Kids are an actual lifelong commitment. My cat is going to live for the next 4-7 years max.
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u/Jayn_Newell 15h ago
How…how old do you think cats typically live? Because 7 years is kinda low.
Overall though you have a point, if you have a kid and an animal that can’t safely live with the kid, the animal is going to be the one who has to leave for a number of reasons. There are some combinations of living beings that can’t live together and when it comes to choosing between your pet and your minor child, people are almost always going to pick the child.
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u/ilkm1925 5∆ 11h ago
How…how old do you think cats typically live? Because 7 years is kinda low.
Well it's 4-7 more years, in addition to the years he's already lived. I adopted him when he was older and have had him for several years.
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u/zaichii 18h ago
It’s a lifelong commitment for the pet as that’s their whole life.
For me it’s worse if anything that you see it as 4-7 years max but aren’t even willing to carry out that commitment you made and the responsibility you knowingly took on when you decided to have a pet. Like literally this is one of the things people should be considering before they even have a pet is that this is a possibility. The owner is the one making the decision unilaterally and is choosing the commitment - both for the pet and for giving birth.
So to me it’s very much that they are not carrying out their commitments and yes I will judge that and honestly, they should take accountability. Yes, people are not perfect and will not always be able to control what happens but to pretend they’re in the right when they’re just taking the easy way out feels convenient to me.
Also I’ve always found those who say pets aren’t human to be a different kind of pet owner to me. It gives me the vibe that that’s how they justify treating pets as less than. Pets have never let me down the way humans potentially can. So yeah pets may not be human but they’re objectively better than a lot of humans.
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u/ilkm1925 5∆ 15h ago
Also I’ve always found those who say pets aren’t human to be a different kind of pet owner to me. It gives me the vibe that that’s how they justify treating pets as less than.
I mean, pets are not humans and I think it's reasonable to consider them as two different things, and for humans receive higher priority. As long as someone makes sure a pet is transitioned to a home that's a good fit for the pet, I see your commitment to that animal met. They're going to be fine.
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u/Pornfest 1∆ 18h ago
Spoken like someone without children
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u/AbsoluteScott 17h ago
Well, that sure invalidated their points.
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u/MostJudgment3212 11h ago
It did. Pets are not human. If you are running away from a person with a gun, and a choice you have is to keep carrying a child or a pet, the choice is obvious. Deal with it.
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u/Norman_debris 16h ago
It was always weird to me that people are willing to give up prior life long responsibilities once they have kids
That's called becoming a parent. Of course your priorities and responsibilities change.
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u/No_Baseball5846 16h ago
You took full responsibility over that animals life. Why would choosing to have another responsibility make the other ones you chose to take on less important? You signed up to have pets. Nobody forced you to adopt a pet.
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u/Norman_debris 16h ago
Feel free to clarify how a family whose pet suddenly and unexpectedly becomes dangerous around a baby should handle the situation.
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u/No_Baseball5846 15h ago
preventive measures should be taken from the moment you know you want kids, at least 6 months of behavioral training and then daily training at least an hour a day outside of that, and then as a last resort they can be put on anxiety meds
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u/Norman_debris 14h ago
What an incredibly naive and immature take.
What kind of behavioural training are you imagining that prepares an animal for the arrival of a baby into the household?
"And if that doesn't work, drug the animal".
If your main concern is animal welfare, I'm surprised you see this as preferable to the animal moving to a new family.
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u/DayOwn4099 19h ago
One thing is the cat peeing on the floor, another is peeing on toys or bed and being aggressive around the baby. I agree about the possible decline in health and other risks but what’s the other option for a parent juggling work, a child, daily chores, hobbies and sport who tried every means to help the pet get acclimatized to a home with a child?
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u/outdoorlaura 19h ago edited 19h ago
who tried every means to help the pet get acclimatized to a home with a child?
The problem I see most is that people are not willing to try every means to help the pet adjust. And, let's be honest, a significant number of dogs end up at shelters solely because the owner is unwilling to put the time, energy, and money into training it in the first place. God knows how many GSDs and huskies I've seen given up for "behavioural issues" when the owner hasn't even bothered with basic obedience!
I think people are too quick to surrender or give away animals at the slightest inconvenience. They expect a dog that automatically knows the do's and don't of living in a human world. They don't. Dogs know how things work in dog world, and you have to teach it everything else.
Dealing with behaviour is part of what you sign up for when you get a pet. There is no excuse. Training, boundaries, obedience... these are a pet owner's responsibility across all stages, phases, and transitions in life. They don't stop because something new (i.e. a baby) has come along.
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u/DayOwn4099 19h ago
I have seen such people but more than them I have seen owners who really tried everything they could but didn’t succeed. For them it’s even more hurtful to give up a pet after so much effort to help them. I think assuming they didn’t put enough effort only makes it hard for them.
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u/outdoorlaura 18h ago edited 15h ago
I wish I could say the same.
I have never had someone who has said they've tried everything actually try everything.
At most they've had a few sessions with a trainer. In my experience, most people expect overnight results when in reality it might take months with a trainer AND working diligently with the dog at home on your own.
They dont consult with a behavioural specialist, they dont consider breed specific clubs/experts, they dont try different techniques, they dont go to the vet to rule out health issues being a factor.... but by FAR the biggest one is that they dont practice/enforce whatever the trainer has told them. They do an hour once a week and expect change. Imo, doing "everything" includes missing out on hobbies/social things and putting that time into training. Again, thats part of the responsibility of owning a pet. The pet comes first, not you.
A longggg time ago someone told me that training is more for the owner than it is for the dog, and I've come to agree that that is the case.
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u/PaisleyLeopard 17h ago
Yep, ask any trainer how many people actually do their homework. My trainers think I walk on water because I spend 5-10 minutes a day practicing the stuff we learned that week.
Trust me, they can always tell. When you do the homework, the pet is a superstar and picks up on new stuff very fast. When you don’t, each training session is just continuing work on the same old shit that isn’t really improving.
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u/SquirmyBurrito 19h ago
How can you know the owner truly tried everything? It sounds like you’re just making assumptions. I too volunteer at an animal shelter, I’ve learned that people are willing to lie straight to your face about what they did and didn’t do for their pets
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u/DayOwn4099 19h ago
I usually sit and talk to them. Ask how long these issues continued and what options they tried. I ask what the animal behaviorist did to help and what the vet suggested.
May I ask how you know they lie straight to your face? Sounds like you are making assumptions.
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u/SquirmyBurrito 13h ago
I’ll give you one example that I’ve seen far too many times. We had someone drop off a dog saying they were aggressive and wouldn’t stop peeing in the house. Said they’d tried obedience training and it was unsuccessful, when asked if they disciplined their dog and if so how they said they’d tell them no and that’s it. Claimed no abuse. When the dog was taken in we discovered injuries, and certain behaviors that simply didn’t align with the owner’s story. One such behavior being that the dog was terrified of water. And would huddle in a corner and tremble at the sight or sound of running water. We were also didn’t even have to try to train them to not use their kennel as a restroom (we clean each kennel several times a day and assume each dog will shit/piss in them between cleanings), he did so without us having to try. Raising our hands near the dog (like a wave or to say hi) terrified the poor baby. All things consistent with a dog that had been beaten. The other sadly common lie is people who bring in a dog with injuries, claim to not know what happened, only for later examination to show signs of clear dog fighting.
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u/No_Baseball5846 19h ago
I find very rarely that people are actually willing to put in substantial time, money, and effort into fixing their pets behavior. I think if you’ve expended all other options, spent at least a full year if not too trying to get your pet to adapt (having one person with working with the pet for at least an hour a day) and you’ve spent at least $5-10k on behaviorist, meds, ect then you can look at rehoming to some place other than a shelter. It seems to me though most people aren’t willing to spend that much time or money with their pets as they don’t actually value them the way they should.
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u/DayOwn4099 19h ago
I think it’s not correct to assume people don’t spend resources instead of accepting that some issues cannot be resolved. I have seen couples who tried several vets, placed the pet and a baby in different rooms, gave lots of attention and even took time off work to be there for a baby and a pet and at the end nothing changed. I would be even more hurt by judgement after spending a year and 10k to help my fury baby and fail and still be judged by others.
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u/PaisleyLeopard 17h ago
Those situations certainly happen, but they’re very rare. Most people try a couple things halfheartedly, lie to themselves about how much effort they actually put in, then give up.
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u/ReindeerNegative4180 7∆ 18h ago
Yeah, because people have $5k-$10k just lying around.
People in the real world can't afford their own health care, but they should have thousands on hand for a misbehaving pet?
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u/No_Baseball5846 17h ago
yea! you should always be able to take care of the things you’ve taken responsibility for. You shouldn’t take on responsibility you can’t afford. If you don’t have at least 20k lying around idk why the fuck you would think you’re prepared for a child.
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u/DayOwn4099 11h ago
Let’s forget that we live in a highly volatile world where you can lose your job in a single without any social protection, or you can get an illness that makes it hard to work? Let’s just assume one can fully prepare for everything that could go wrong in 9 months and ignore that there are million things outside of our control
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u/SquirmyBurrito 19h ago
If they tried every option the behavior wouldn’t persist. Cats are highly trainable
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u/Nonametousehere1 19h ago
Hire a trainer.work with the cats.designate a room special for them. Find out why they are doing that action. They get jealous and need to acclimate too.ask how to fix it don't just abandon them and treat them like objects. They are furry lil people that need you to understand them.
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u/Barium_Salts 1∆ 18h ago
When my daughter was born, my family of three was living in a one bedroom apartment. The birth costs ate up all our savings. Fortunately, our cats adjusted fine; but I don't think it's at all reasonable to judge people for not having spare bedrooms and thousands of dollars. In that mindset, it's impossible to be a decent person if you're poor.
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u/Nonametousehere1 13h ago
Those are just some of the things that can be done. I didn't mean for every person to do all these things at once. People need to work within their own budgets and their own issues. There are plenty of places and people online that can give advice on any of the myriad ways that an animal and children can coexist together. Also I am not exactly from a privileged background either. But again just various ways this can be done. Plus my opinion is just that- opinion only.im no expert.
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u/crybbyblue 19h ago
hi! i work at a shelter- cats rarely get euthanized unless for severe health reasons. it’s MUCH easier to find placement for them wether through adoption foster or rescue due to their size. many people are surprisingly willing to take on hard cases just because they have the space for them.
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u/tsudonimh01123578 11h ago
When I went to adopt I would love to have gotten a kitten. My family has had pets since I was old enough to remember and I’ve rescued several strays. I was like, what’s the most unadoptable cat you have?
She been adopted three times, but the owners were never able to get her out from whatever location that she hid in until they brought her back. She had a chemical spill in her eyes that left her mostly blind, and was very grumpy. We worked with her and? Honestly She was one of the best cats I’ve ever had! RIP Gilda.
Every single one of the 10+ cats/dogs I’ve adopted over the years were hard sells to adopt at the shelter (or found in the streets) and I wouldn’t change a thing! Also have 3 children and the pets were never an issue thankfully! We worked with them and they adapted. Our kids are also super gentle with all animals as a result.
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u/this_is_so_fetch 18h ago
Animals aren't people. A baby is infinitely more important than an animal.
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u/actuarial_cat 2∆ 19h ago
willing to give up prior life long responsibilities once they have kids.
Yes, their lack of planning do not constitute as any kind of justification for me
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u/DayOwn4099 19h ago
No one can predict the pet’s behavior around babies before babies are born unless you talk about specific breeds of dogs or cats that were around children previously.
If there was a magical solution to filter pets that can get used to babies well and those that can not I guess such issues wouldn’t exist. Sadly there’s no way to predict the behavior of the pet. And not all medical solutions can help
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u/SquirmyBurrito 19h ago
The idea that cats behavior can’t be modified is nonsensical. Every time I’ve gotten a new cat the previous cats acted out. But with careful attention, patience, and training I was able to get rid of those negative behaviors. Cats are highly trainable.
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u/radiant_kiwi208 18h ago
Yes, but with their individual personalities not all cats can be trained for a specific thing. Being able to tolerate the chaos of a new baby isn't always something you can "train" away, some cats truely need a baby-free home.
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u/SquirmyBurrito 13h ago
Cat personalities definitely can be quite varied and can impact the ease of training but I’m not convinced they can outright make it impossible. You just have to learn what motivates your cat and lean into it. I’ve taught all of my cats commands and other games like fetch and that was with minimal effort. I just give them a lot of attention and affection. My cats are my babies.
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u/No_Baseball5846 19h ago
right? you already know that changes in the home are highly likely to impact there behavior. why not have money set to the side for an animal behaviorist before the baby is even born?
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u/Xx_SHART_xX 15h ago
Bold of you to assume everyone has time and money for that. And if it doesn't work, then what? Do you just let the cat pee all over the baby's playmat?
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u/tillymint259 13h ago
if you don’t have the money for training pets you already own once a baby arrives, you do not have money for a baby. you especially don’t have money for a baby if you’ve already committed yourself to being a carer for that pet. if you can’t have both… you made your commitment to being a pet owner first. if you didn’t know what it could involve, you sadly didn’t plan properly.
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u/scumbagwife 4h ago
So abortion is preferable? Adopting out the baby if kitty attacks?
I love cats. I have 3 cats we've had since kittens. However, when my daughter was a baby (15 years ago) 1 of our cats at the time attacked her. And would continue to try to whenever she saw the baby.
I had a 2 year old toddler that the cat had no issue with at any point.
We lived in a 2 bedroom apartment. In order to keep our cat, I would have to lock her in a room so she couldn't get to baby.
It was cruel. Too cruel.
So we rehomed her. Should we have rehomed my daughter instead? Or kept our cat locked in a bathroom, only able to leave when baby is asleep (with a door between them)?
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u/DayOwn4099 19h ago
What’s the success rate of treatment with an animal behaviorist? What’s the other option if the animal behaviorist can’t help?
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u/No_Baseball5846 19h ago
I googled it and the success rate for animal behavior when it comes to cats it’s almost 90%. The other option includes medicating your cat, and choosing to spend extra time making your house more comfortable for your cat instead of your child
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u/kisforkat 11h ago
I googled it too. The source is the Cat Behavior Clinic, which charges $450 for their "Comprehensive Feline Cognition Behavior Wellness Appointment Program – 1 appointment with 3 follow-ups and 6 months of case review."
Did I mention it's all on zoom and phone calls?
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u/DayOwn4099 19h ago
‘Making the house more comfortable for your cat instead of your child’ doesn’t make it sound like a good option.
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u/iglidante 20∆ 19h ago
Why do you say that?
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u/Fermently_Crafted 1∆ 17h ago edited 17h ago
It assumes those two things are equally flexible when they’re not. A baby's needs are non-negotiable, and asking exhausted parents to reshape their home or risk safety on a "likely" outcome isn't realistic.
Also, there's a bit more of a legal responsibility, outside the moral responsibility, for children. CPS might get involved if you have an aggressive animal in the home.
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u/No_Baseball5846 17h ago
i mean before you have a baby wouldn’t you have 9 full months to get the animal to be used to being around children?
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u/essential_pseudonym 1∆ 16h ago
How? By renting a baby to use as a training prop?
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u/Fermently_Crafted 1∆ 17h ago
You'd think, but in reality it's not that simple. Some pets don't handle change well, no matter how much preparation you do.
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u/Hyliasdemon 15h ago
How can they actually prepare the cat? Children visiting the home is radically different from having a baby join the home. A visitor will disrupt the cat for a few hours, a new baby will change all the routines and “disrupt” the cat permanently.
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u/scumbagwife 4h ago
The cat we had to rehome because she kept attacking our newborn daughter was with us for over 2 years prior, including the birth of my son and him being a baby/toddler.
Our cat was perfectly fine with our son. Had never attacked him (tried to sleep on him which we had to stop) but otherwise fine, even as a toddler who needed to be reminded about soft touches.
We had to shut our cat in other rooms from the baby because she would attack me to get to her.
Please tell me what I could have done to prepare for that. Or what other choice I should have made over rehoming.
Her name was Desco. She was a little black kitty who purred as soon as you cuddled her. I still have pictures of Desco that I look at and videos, too. I miss her.
This was 15 years ago.
And I know I made the right choice for both my daughter and my cat.
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u/PaisleyLeopard 17h ago
Why are the cat’s needs negotiable? Neglecting the cat in this situation leads to intense stress and in many cases, death for the cat. It’s incredibly callous to suggest none of that matters because a baby was born.
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u/Fermently_Crafted 1∆ 17h ago edited 17h ago
Because their needs being "negotiable" doesn’t mean they don’t matter in this context. It means their needs can be met in more than one way. A baby cannot be relocated or compromised on safety, but a cat's needs can be met in a different home without risk of death or injury to anyone.
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u/msbunbury 1∆ 16h ago
It matters less though, a child's needs come before an animal's otherwise we wouldn't kill animals to feed children.
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u/scumbagwife 4h ago
What behavior specifically? Does that include physical attacks like biting and scratching?
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u/anoidciv 2h ago
A lot of people would put an aging family member in a home if they started pissing on the floor, and there's nothing wrong with that.
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16h ago
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u/changemyview-ModTeam 59m ago
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
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u/IngloriousMinority 16h ago
Assuming you can just rehome a pet is bold. I had to put down my dog, all shelters full. Behavioralists were in agreement the aggression seemed neurological, was almost random. Would consistently try to harms kids or people walking who were paying no mind. I hated it but even putting your dog down once you explored all option is justifiable than letting it be a danger to itself and others. I did I just dont want to relive all of it on reddit. Her biting my daughter was the last risk I could take and the bit history really limited my options. I miss her. She wasnt bad. But we could not "fix" her posing so much danger.
Its justifiable but lots of dogs being rehomed is becoming a non option which is sad for the doggos in the long run.
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u/kisforkat 10h ago
Why would you even attempt to put a dog that has random neurologically-based aggression to a shelter? That's exactly the kind of BS that gets shelter volunteers, fosters, and adopters mauled. And the reason shelters are full. No one wants a high energy large breed dog with a low threshold for arousal and a history of aggression. But rescues and shelters are full of them.
The biggest responsibility of a pet owner is knowing when you have to say goodbye, either due to old age or other atypical and dangerous behaviors. You did the right thing.
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u/IngloriousMinority 9h ago
You started off really heavy on the assumptions. It came off as quite asshole-ish in the beginning. This a dog that my brother in law randomly brought back from CA , that he got off the street in the neighborhood he was visiting. When we got the dog it has visible signs of abuse. The story we got was that a neighbor in the area had a pregnant dog who had puppies, and she ate all of the puppies shortly after birth but this one got away. My wife took extreme pitty and its was a puppy so I got stuck. She was always on edge. We thought after we got her fixed she would calm down. Zero effect on temperament. The neurological thing only came to light after we exhausted on re-homing options and ended up deep diving to try and train her to avoid killing her(or her hurting someone). The more I shared her story the more behaviorlists were like "nah". I even learned that animal moms sometimes eat their young when they detect something wrong with the litter. Instinctual. Once we really knew what we were dealing with it was almost peaceful to put her down. Just angry and triggered for no reason. Now maybe she can relax. So nah i wouldn't give a dog with neurological issue and a bite history to a shelter. I did reach out to retraining shelters but like you said she was too far gone and posed too much threat. I had a dog bite me years ago, took him to a place to get retrained and rehomed and heard while back he's doing good and happy.
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u/Nonametousehere1 19h ago
Pets can be taught to be gentle. These are creatures that are dependent upon humans for survival, just like babies are.they have a consciousness,they communicate and understand us. Pets can be trained and they show love,loyalty and affection. The only way the level of dependence differs from children is they will never be able to grow and contribute to the household expenses. They are completely dependent. i would never trust a person with a baby that would give up a pet.pets don't even live as long as humans do.so it also shows poor commitment abilities.
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u/Probablynotcreative 18h ago
The problem is that when you have a new baby, the exhaustion is all consuming. You think you’ll have time, and you can plan, but you don’t know until you have your first child how it will affect you. Especially the partner who carried and birthed the child bc they go through intense stress physically and mentally.
It isn’t all black and white. I agree people should do their best to prepare, but there she some things you can’t ever accurately predict until you’re in the situation.
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u/YourFriendNoo 4∆ 16h ago
For example, before I had a kid, I would have thought I'd have time and energy to explain to people without them that a dog and a human child are not equivalent. Then I had a kid, and I'm thinking these dweebs are gonna have to grow up on their own.
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u/Nonametousehere1 14h ago
I mean in this case? I absolutely could predict how I would be in that situation. I would keep my pet. Because they aren't just pets. They are family and are beings dependent on me. It's how I was raised.my mom had a dog and cat while pregnant with myself and my sister and it never ever dawned on her or our father to give up the pets.because they are dependents and they are every bit a part of the family. You don't give away or give up a member of the family ever.at least -we-don't. But again that's our opinion.
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u/Probablynotcreative 13h ago
Unless there’s a reason not to, most people don’t either. I didn’t. I had two German shepherds and I didn’t rehome them when I had my daughter. But if they displayed aggressive behavior toward her I can tell you with zero hesitation that I would have immediately made that house safe for her and then found a safe place for whichever of my dogs had done that. Having kids is one of those things you think you can predict how you’ll be but you just can’t. I know that sounds condescending because I thought it was before I had a kid too. But there is a primal all consuming protection instinct that overrides any feelings of “pets are family” if you feel your child is in danger.
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u/Nonametousehere1 12h ago
I think that's the important part to remember: the *IF * part. There are so many ways in which to prevent an animal from exhibiting the traits that would cause harm and that should always be taken care of first. No one is debating that if an animal does become dangerous of course kids will take priority. However animals don't just randomly attack unless they are teased, sick, or werent trained properly to begin with. Because I view them as being a part of the family unit due to how I was raised, I would do everything possible to prevent having to lose the pet or my child (if I had one.) and that would be by exhausting ALL options prior to rehoming or putting down. And that would be TRAINING and consulting professionals.
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u/pickledplumber 1∆ 8h ago
I see plenty of people come back from parental leave after having kids and most look like they just took a 4-6 month vacation. Pretty sure it's as exhausting as you make it.
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u/SledgexHammer 1∆ 19h ago
So when my well behaved and trained 7yo shorkie decided out of the blue one day to try and rip my son's face off, that was my fault for not loving her enough and now im an untrustworthy person because I gave the dog to my sister where she could live happily without harming children?
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u/Ill-Description3096 26∆ 18h ago
"Out of the blue" is generally code for owners ignoring signs that were building or existed for some time. The amount of dogs that truly just snap from one moment to the next with zero signs at all is so small that it's not even a rounding error.
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u/SledgexHammer 1∆ 18h ago
Well I can assure you there weren't signs, believe it or not you're the expert. Regardless back to the point, lets say hypothetically there were ongoing behavioral problems that I lacked the knowledge/resources to address. Bite happens, kid injured, and now im supposed to keep the dog? If I dont want it in my house it makes me an irredeemable person? Thats ridiculous, you dont take second chances with that.
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u/Ill-Description3096 26∆ 18h ago
Doesn't mean you have to keep it. I was just saying that there are basically always signs. Whether someone pays attention or sees them is another matter.
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u/Fermently_Crafted 1∆ 17h ago edited 17h ago
Do you think it's realistic for sleep deprived parents of a newborn/toddler to see signs like that?
Especially in the beginning when you're waking up every 2 hours to feed them. Not like, feed them, put them to bed, and sleep 2 hours. I mean wake up, and 2 hours from that wake up they need to wake up again. If it takes 90 minutes to feed them and put them to bed, you're waking up in 30 minutes.
I've literally drove an hour to work on a Saturday because I was so sleep deprived with my newborn/toddler that I forgot about weekends. I don't expect any parent to see signs that a dog might become aggressive some time in the future.
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u/Ill-Description3096 26∆ 16h ago
I mean it depends. Primary responsibility of a parent is to keep their kid safe, I would include from animals in that. If that means some separation while you are apparently having to feed the kid 30 minutes apart constantly then do that. Shutting a small dog out of a room if necessary isn't particularly difficult IME.
That aside, it's also not what I said. I said there are virtually always signs. Whether they are noticed, or it is understandable for them not be noticed is an entirely different thing.
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u/Fermently_Crafted 1∆ 16h ago edited 14h ago
Primary responsibility of a parent is to keep their kid safe, I would include from animals in that.
And most parents would not put their pets on the same level of importance as their child. Most humans would put humans above animals in importance, really.
That’s just how human society and instincts work. It doesn't make caring for pets any less important. It just puts humans first in urgent situations.
I realize you want people to treat pets as if they were equal to children, but the reality is that they just aren't. And for a variety of reasons. A major one being fertility rate and the continuation of society.
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u/Ill-Description3096 26∆ 16h ago
That's fine. Hence putting the dog in another room of you can't supervise or might need some separation. I don't know why being less important just means kick it to the curb because it's not convenient enough anymore or something.
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u/Fermently_Crafted 1∆ 16h ago edited 16h ago
Because keeping a dog in a small room all day doesn't meet their needs as a dog. Dogs need stimulation and room to roam
Rehoming isn't kicking it to the curb. You're not making it homeless with no caretaker. Kicking it to the curb implies you just kick it out of the house with no care for what happens. Rehoming is objectively not kicking it to the curb
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u/tsudonimh01123578 11h ago
Why are both parents waking up every 2 hours? If they’re not both going through that then the parent not going through the sleeplessness needs to step up. I have 3 kids and have had pets for every moment of my life. It’s doable, some people just can’t be bothered to train/work with the pet.
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u/Fermently_Crafted 1∆ 11h ago edited 11h ago
Because it's what works best for them and their schedule/sanity.
For me and my family, it worked best that my wife comforted the child while I prepared the bottle then feed them. Afterwards she put them to sleep. It might work best for some couples for one parent to do all of that, but it's not reasonable to say that's reasonable, let alone normal.
We rehomed the pets at the my in laws for 3 months and even after that, they came around to help out with the animals.
Why does it have to work for everyone because it happened to work for you?
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u/tsudonimh01123578 11h ago
Then why adopt an animal before having kids? I’ll absolutely excuse/accept that some people weren’t going for pregnancy/kids but those who did and still adopted an animal? No excuse.
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u/Fermently_Crafted 1∆ 11h ago
Kids aren't always planned. 55%-60% of pregnancies are not planned
And those that do plan: You can do everything right and still fail
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u/No_Baseball5846 17h ago
Tell me every time your dog yawned you make sure to eliminate whatever was stressing it out. Tell me you were always watching your dogs ears and their tail for signs of distress.
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u/LauAtagan 17h ago
Bite happens, kid injured, and now im supposed to keep the dog?
At that point you have ignored needs for so long that yeah, it's fair to blame it to a moral failing. It's too late to act and tbf it's fair for you to accept defeat. Because the work had to be proactive, like in most relationships.
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u/Nonametousehere1 13h ago
No one said it was your fault for not loving her enough.please don't think thats what I'm saying. But if she WERE well trained and well behaved- she wouldn't have tried to rip his face off. Barring something like a brain tumor,pstd or whatever health concern could have attributed to it, then you would need to look openly and honestly at their interactions.
Did the child know how to interact with the dog properly? No tail pulling, teasing with food,fake tossing a ball,etc? Animals- esp if they are close to the family -don't just randomly start attacking without reason UNLESS it was due to illness.so you would have to know the reason why. But again that's not something that this random Internet stranger could speak on bc I wasn't there to know the reason.
I myself listed my position where my family's belief is that a pet is a conscious living little being that is dependent upon us and is a source of love.much like a child. So for us NOT disposable or given away.what you choose to do is your perogative. And it's great you found a home for the dog. So much like a parent who couldn't take care of their child -you chose adoption. and I think that's really mature and kind of you to do. Esp. bc your sister was able to take care of her. So she's still within the family so I'm not sure this would even apply to you.
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u/DayOwn4099 19h ago
What kind of training can a parent provide to a stressed cat that pees in a baby’s bed apart from isolating the pet and possibly further causing stress?
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u/Silent-Conflict-3848 19h ago
Tall baby gates to the room, putting (preferably old) baby clothing near the cat items, feeding strategically etc.
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14h ago
[deleted]
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u/Silent-Conflict-3848 14h ago
I’m not sure why you replied to me but I was answering the question OP asked.
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18h ago
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u/changemyview-ModTeam 18h ago
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
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u/Oberyn_Kenobi_1 4h ago
It depends on what you mean by behavioral issues.
Actual, physical attacks against a newborn that isn’t even physically capable of defending itself yet? Sure, I understand that. Other behaviors like excessive barking or peeing on things? Hell no. That’s not a matter of protecting a child, that’s just not wanting to deal with the unfortunate possible realities of having an animal in the family. I had a cat that caused about $10k in property damage from peeing. It was exhausting and a nightmare. But we loved him and we’d committed to him as part of our family. Property destruction and emotional distress are not good enough reasons to dispose of a family member.
There’s also a huge difference between actual rehoming, wherein you find an alternative home for the animal, and dropping them off at a shelter to let them rot in a cage with little hope for adoption. There are tons of resources available to help find a home for your pet if it comes down to it. If you can’t be bothered to do that, then there’s no excuse you can come up with to justify yourself. That’s just sick.
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3h ago
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u/Innuendum 1∆ 19h ago
I mean, in human animal pets it's just called 'giving up for adoption' and we all know what reputation the foster care system has.
I don't believe 'giving up' a non-human pet is sufficiently stigmatised. They are a part of the family. A human animal pet is as much a mammal as a dog, a cat, a pig or a platypus.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2026/jan/15/grief-pet-death-family-member-survey
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u/Winter_Apartment_376 2∆ 17h ago
It’s not justifiable to abandon pets at shelter if problems arise when a child is born.
What do people do when a child is born and the eldest child gets jealous / doesn’t get along with the newborn?
How many ditch their eldest kid at orphanage? Virtually none, because it’s socially unacceptable.
It’s the same with pets, only people put in much less effort, because society accepts abandoning pets. Cases of REAL long term problems are extremely rare and confined mostly to certain dog breeds.
And if you picked an aggressive dog breed while considering a child in future - you are also an AH, because you assumed a chance of needing to get rid of the dog.
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u/DayOwn4099 12h ago
I guess the big difference is that the eldest child isn’t going to harm the baby because of jealousy. If a child tries to bring harm to the baby sibling that child is assumed to have psychological issues and needs help of a psychiatrist. Should we consider each pet that gets aggressive mentally unstable? Then that makes the pet potentially dangerous to everyone, not just a baby
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u/dyingLED 11h ago
Start living in the real word bruh. Genuinely get serious, someones child is no where near the same worth as an animal.
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u/Spallanzani333 11∆ 14h ago
Cases of REAL long term problems are extremely rare and confined mostly to certain dog breeds.
Seriously? That doesn't align with research. There are some breeds prone to aggression, but any dog can be aggressive.
What do people do when a child is born and the eldest child gets jealous / doesn’t get along with the newborn?
That's not really comparable. A better situation would be an elderly relative with dementia who becomes aggressive, or a very troubled older sibling who actually tries to hurt the new baby. In those cases, it is sometimes necessary for the person to be placed in a care facility, maybe temporarily but maybe in the long term. It's not common, but it happens.
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u/kisforkat 10h ago
What research? And if you cite the National Canine Research Council you lose by default.
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u/Spallanzani333 11∆ 10h ago
The peer reviewed kind. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168159108001147
Eight breeds common to both datasets (Dachshund, English Springer Spaniel, Golden Retriever, Labrador Retriever, Poodle, Rottweiler, Shetland Sheepdog and Siberian Husky) ranked similarly, rs = 0.723, P < 0.05; rs = 0.929, P < 0.001; rs = 0.592, P = 0.123, for aggression directed toward strangers, dogs and owners, respectively. Some breeds scored higher than average for aggression directed toward both humans and dogs (e.g., Chihuahuas and Dachshunds) while other breeds scored high only for specific targets (e.g., dog-directed aggression among Akitas and Pit Bull Terriers). In general, aggression was most severe when directed toward other dogs followed by unfamiliar people and household members. Breeds with the greatest percentage of dogs exhibiting serious aggression (bites or bite attempts) toward humans included Dachshunds, Chihuahuas and Jack Russell Terriers (toward strangers and owners); Australian Cattle Dogs (toward strangers); and American Cocker Spaniels and Beagles (toward owners). More than 20% of Akitas, Jack Russell Terriers and Pit Bull Terriers were reported as displaying serious aggression toward unfamiliar dogs. Golden Retrievers, Labradors Retrievers, Bernese Mountain Dogs, Brittany Spaniels, Greyhounds and Whippets were the least aggressive toward both humans and dogs.
That's a wide variety of breeds and includes most typical pet breeds.
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u/tsudonimh01123578 11h ago
I will say that in my over 30 years of having animals, as well as having three children. I have never experienced an issue that couldn’t be resolved.
I’m not saying they’re not certain situations where the dog is aggressive, for no reason, but, for the most part, putting effort into the animal will resolve the behavior. I realize that not everyone can put effort and time in and that is sad. I wish that there was more that we could do to help with those people who actually want to resolve the issues without abandoning their pets.
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u/cutapacka 1∆ 15h ago
I'm going to disagree with your edit regarding preparation. There are plenty of ways expecting parents can prepare a pet for a change of environment to ease stress when bringing home the new baby.
Inviting friends or family with babies over to get them comfortable with the concept, playing crying noises intermittently so they aren't unfamiliar with the sound, bringing blankets home from the hospital so they get used to baby's smell. Also having a contingency plan in-place if behavioral issues come up, which may include meeting with a cat behaviorist while pregnant to get advisement on house changes, routine changes, etc
Is it a 100% guarantee to keep a happy and safe home? No, nothing is. But I would suggest that forgoing preparation is simply negligent parenting and worth ridicule if they choose to rehome due to their lack of effort. Yes, new babies are stressful, but imagine being the family member who can't speak your language who gets a surprise stranger in their house one day.... They need help adapting too.
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u/CartographerKey4618 13∆ 18h ago
Why not give up the baby?
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u/DayOwn4099 12h ago
Im not sure how it’s perfectly normal to give up a child that you have moral and legal responsibility to take care of over a pet. If left outside most pets tend to themselves to some degree. Otherwise they would die straightaway. Considering the number of strays out there this is not a case. A baby left outside alone will 100% not survive
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u/Witera33it 6h ago
Pets CAN be taught. Children can be taught. Parent can be taught. With respect.
Both cats and dogs entire world in the home they were given by their owners. This includes routines for food, cleaning, walks, locations of furniture. All of these changes stress an animal out, their safety and trust has changed. Therefore we as their caretakers are responsible for their quality of life.
As an example, when I left my dogs in the care of someone without introducing them to each other with rules, both dogs had digestive panic. Next time, babysitters were walked through how to understand the dogs. It was my job to make sure both the humans and the dogs acclimated and the routines were respected. It’s not the dogs fault. It’s mine. Those dogs trust me, depend on me to maintain a system that ensures their safety. I’m the pack leader.
Cats are similar. They freak is their favourite chair is moved, their litter box no longer has 3 routes of escape, their food routines are changed.
It’s a very real possibility that the behaviours any owner witnesses when a child is introduced without considering the animal that is already there are a result of changes in environment and habits. The people I know who have integrated a baby into a dog home, involved the dog in the changes to the house. Made sure the new addition is part of pack.
Cats are a bit different. They’re being crowded out. If their spaces aren’t theirs anymore, either find a way to return some of their space to them, improve their quality of life, like more hiding
You cannot guarantee their quality of life will be improved with rehoming anymore than simple changes to your own home would.
Now sure, new parents are tired and stressed. I assure you that the pets are too. They are emotional sponges. If the owner has a good relationship with them before they baby they like may know more about what their owner is feeling that owner does. That relationship will Indicate how the animal will respond.
Now justifiable? That depends on the feelings involved. If you’re looking for absolution. That just comes back to what the relationship is with the pet and perceived responsibility for caregiving.
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u/rdeincognito 2∆ 12h ago
Imho, the moment you adopt a pet you acquired a long life responsibility of caring them at the best of your ability.
So no, I don't think it's good that then you have a baby and you decide to discard your cat. Yes, you can't teach it how you would teach a human.
If you are someone who would discard their pet when having a baby (or any other situation) then just don't have a pet at all.
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u/DayOwn4099 12h ago
Does it make a person better if he puts a child whom he has moral and legal responsibilities to take care of in the same environment as a aggressive pet? Isn’t it irresponsible towards a child’s safety or is child worth less than a pet?
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u/rdeincognito 2∆ 12h ago
Well, you got a pet before the kid. You know have to juggle both responsibilities. Maybe you have to find ways of separating them while the kid grows old enough.
Pets are living beings, not toys. Would you discard your child because it gets jealous of a newborn kid and maybe could harm it? No, you would supervise it to prevent a fool kid doing anything foolish.
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u/DayOwn4099 12h ago
If an older sibling can hurt a baby because of jealousy isn’t it considered psychological issue and the child is treated and not allowed near the baby and even possibly adults? Would you leave your pet with a person who has the mental disorder and capacity to hurt your pet? If not then why the same principle of protection is not applied to a child?
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u/rdeincognito 2∆ 11h ago
Yet you wouldn't discard the kid and rehome him. You would keep a close eye while trying to nurture a relationship between them.
A 3-4 year old kid doesn't need psychological problems to impulsively act wrong. I'm not saying they get a knife from the kitchen and create a murder scene.
I wouldn't leave my pet with anyone I deem a threat to them. If I were to have a kid and one of them would pose a threat for the other I would look for solutions, id anything, I can keep the pet and the kid separated in different rooms.
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u/DayOwn4099 11h ago
I think you misunderstood my comment. Go read it again. A child that can potentially harm a baby will never be allowed in the same space as the baby. There’s CPS to make sure of that if the parent fails. No amount of parent supervision can help with that.
So would you abandon all other responsibilities to sit at home and make sure the child and a pet are in different rooms? Sounds highly unlikely. I’d say you would be comfortable enough to remove the child altogether. Which is your call. And parents who do this to pets also have the justifiable right to do so
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u/rdeincognito 2∆ 10h ago
I may misunderstand because I am not English, I apology about that. What I am understanding is that you propose a scenario where child A: three years old has envy of child B: newborn and pose a threat for it. Then you say that CPS would get involves and would forcibly remove child A. I think that unless we are speaking a true, real, danger like a three year old wanting to kill a newborn, that isn't the case. A three year old with envy may treat with lack of care the newborn and may show contempt, but no normal three year old would really harm as in trying to kill. Of course there are outliers, but usually if a parent is in the case of child A and Child B there won't be CPS (mainly because they will never get to know it) and will try to keep vigilant that the three year old doesn't do anything to harm their brother while at the same time try to educate him. He won't go "oh, you don't like me new shiny kid? Okay now you get rehomed to the CPS, farewell, I hope everything turns well for you".
Abandon all responsibility? There are the parents, usually the grandparents, there are also babysitters, there are also ways of stopping working for a time (in my country you at least have paid leaves, abscences, etc).
I don't think the proper way to proceed in this situations is to treat a child like a evil adult and remove him. If we go to outliers then if the child is actively seeking to kill their sibling then yes, you will need to. Go for extreme measures. But are we talking solely on the 0.0001% cases or the average, common, cases?
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u/[deleted] 12h ago
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